Q and A. Dispelling The Myths And Misnomers Of Christianity.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You didn't address anything, you basically said "Nope, you're wrong."

Yes, wrong to use worthless web blogs as a substitute for actually explaining and defending your claims.
So you have a list of speculations that you got from somewhere.
Is that from another blog?
Can you make any sort of argument to defend these claims or you just want to give the canned answers and leave it at that?
I gave you actual Bible verses and rationale to describe why I am using that text and what I believe it is indicating. Would you like to address those?

reply to post by Klassified

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Is homosexuality an abomination? Is it a sin? If not, why not?
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There is some debate in the more liberal denominations about this, but most christians believe it to be a sin. You may want to read more than just the few verses I quote here. Romans 1:26,27

So you would say mainly it's liberal Christians who arn't homophobes? It seems quite clear that the Christian doctrine is homophobic. (and thus God) That's interesting anyway.

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Should Christians believe in demons and witches if God condemns them?
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If by believing in them you mean acknowledge their existence, yes. Most christians acknowledge both.

What evidence is there to suggest Witches, Demons and Warlocks exist? Do Christians believe this because "the bible says so"? Are these metaphorical concepts or do Christians actually believe these things?

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

.....Most i've met deny miracles, witches, warlocks, demons and curses, or are at least very skeptical.

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"Original Sin"? "Born sick, and commanded to be well?" Is this true? Isn't this an offense to Atheists and non-believers of Christianity? Do you have to believe this to call yourself a Christian?
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Simply put. Adam disobeyed God, and mans need for atonement was born. Yes. True. From the christians perspective this is not a matter of offense to anyone. It is simply a fact. The acknowledgement to ourselves and to God that we need redemption is at the core of christianity. And therefore, necessary.

YES, it IS an offense, most atheists or non-religious don't believe our species is naturally "sick" or "sinful". If you believe this doctrine to be the word of God, of course you will look down on non-believers, you will believe they are "sinners" because they havn't read your book or follow the word.

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What about the Sabbath Day? Are we all "sinning" if we do not "respect" it?
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This is where we get into the gray area of christianity. Some have a list of laws they believe we still have to observe.

How is it "gray"? It's a commandment from the Lord himself!

Some believe Jesus' death and ressurrection fulfilled the whole of the laws requirements, and therefore trying to observe the law as a requirement for christian life is putting yourself back into a bondage you were freed from

What bondage are people freed from? How does one human sacrifice absolve the "sins" of an entire species? HOW? Why should i be bound by a human sacrifice anymore than i should be bound by a Bhuddist preist setting himself on fire?

Because in short, by affirming Christ as the propitiation for your sins, you become dead to the law, and alive to God through Christ, who is the embodiment of the the law.

Well....so you and the bible claim. Yet i'd sooner find comfort in modern democratic law than absolute ancient biblical law.

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What did Jesus mean when he told people to leave their families to follow him? What if they were sick or dying?
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Because for the christian, God is top priority in their life. His will always comes first. Even above their family.

That's what scares me; they put God before the sick, the hungry and the dying. They honestly think they are doing "good" with their incessant preaching, and their desire for everyone to submit to "Christ".

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What about the Old Testament? Do we ignore this doctrine?
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The old testament is the old covenant

Jesus is fond of mosaic/abrahamic law:-

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

It's not a matter of ignoring.

But it DOES contain genocide, slavery, and racism. That's worth ignoring in my opinion. Perhaps Christians enjoy the wrath of God?

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Why do most Christians glorify the New Testament, only the New Testament preaches hellfire. Should Christians be teaching that to their children?
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Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

AND FINALLY:-

If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38

Well i'm going STRAIGHT to hell because i'm ashamed, very ashamed.....

For the christian. This is simply the truth of the matter. It is a fact. Without Christ, there is eternal seperation from God in a place of torment.

So you and the Christian doctrine claims it seems, it's stil unfalsifiable, and abhorrent.

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And finally, must you obey ALL of the commands to be a Christian? What about envy? What if you envy a friends book collection, or you envy his giving nature?
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For the christian. There is forgiveness when they stumble(sin), and repent of it afterward

As easy as that? Again, vicarious redemption is immoral preaching, you should seek forgiveness from those who you have wronged.

It isn't a matter of memorizing the commandments so you can obey them per se.

Well Yahweh (or Moses) asked that you do memorize them, and adbide by them. INCLUDING the Sabbath Day if you want to be a consistent Christian.

The relationship with God becomes a law of love.

The first 2 commandments are a sign of jelously:-

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 you shall have no other gods before me.

So Muslims, Jews and Bhuddists are "sinning".

In other words, the christian obeys God because he desires to live a life pleasing to God

Like a servant.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You didn't address anything, you basically said "Nope, you're wrong."

Yes, wrong to use worthless web blogs as a substitute for actually explaining and defending your claims.
So you have a list of speculations that you got from somewhere.
Is that from another blog?
Can you make any sort of argument to defend these claims or you just want to give the canned answers and leave it at that?
I gave you actual Bible verses and rationale to describe why I am using that text and what I believe it is indicating. Would you like to address those?

I addressed your claim with three reasons from the scripture a few pages ago. Those people who are in a covenant relationship with the Lord will NEVER come under condemnation. I shouldn't need to explain it to you, Romans 8:1, (which I also said), should clearly tell you that Christians do not come under the judgment at the end of the age.
But sure, I've got nothing better to do right now so I suppose I can do this a third time.

1. Judgment Seat of Christ:, (for Christians, crowns can be won or lost, takes place in heaven during the opening of the seals and immediately prior to the marriage supper of the Lamb): 1 Thess. 2:19-20, Rev. 22:12, 1 Cor. 15:10, Col. 1:29, Rom. 14:10-11; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; 2 Cor. 5:9-10; 1 John 2:28; Rev. 3:11-12. In Revelation 19:8 when Christ returns to set foot on the Earth after all seals have been opened the bride (church) is with Him and rewards have been given out. God cannot give retribution for sin to those in covenant with Christ for that would make Christ's work incomplete on the cross. "There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus who are the called according to His purpose."

If the Bride comes with Christ when He returns to Earth to set foot and battle at Armageddon, and she is already rewarded with crowns, that tells you the bema judgment must come after Revelation 4:1 when the church is brought to heaven and before Revelation 19:8 when Christ returns to Earth with her.

The Doctrine of Rewards: The Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ


2. Sheep and Goats judgment: This occurs immediately after the battle of Armaggedon, and upon Christ's return to Earth to rule and reign during the millinium. Christ talks about this judgment in Matthew 25:31-46. Unlike the bema judgment which happens in heaven between Revelation 4:1 and Revelation 19:8, this judgment happens on Earth, prior to the advent of the millinium.

The Sheep and Goat Judgment



3. The Great White Throne judgment: This happens at the END of Christ's millennial reign on Earth (Revelation 20:5), where satan is even judged and cast into the lake of fire. This judgment happens immediately prior to the new heavens and the new Earth being formed and given to all the redeemed from eternity past. (Revelation 20:11-15) The unsaved from eternity past are kept in Hades until this judgment. They are resurrected to stand before the Son of Man. ALL people at this judgment will bow a knee and confess Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. EVERY soul will confess Him as Lord and bow a knee.

This is for every soul that doesn't know Christ. (Matthew 7:23) Anyone who refuses to take the free gift offered by God through the atonement made possible by His Son will face this judgment. The unsaved at this judgment are judged according to their works/deeds. (Romans 2:5-6)

For we must all appear before the judgment seat (bēmatos) of Christ, so that each one may be paid back according to what he has done while in the body, whether good or evil.

This is the main text being referred to in the first blog Not ur Typical linked to as support for his claim about judgement. One of the claims the blogger makes concerning this judgement that he differentiates by the Greek word used, is that it is: "Associated only with born again Church Age believers." He is assuming that Paul is addressing Christians and so the word "we" must mean only Christians. There is the saying of Jesus that he will judge the world, so to explain that away Not ur Typical adds still another judgement, one of the sheep and the goats. So, who are those people and how is it there are no Christians among the "sheep"?
Another claim of the blogger is that this type of judgement referred to in the verse: "Sins are not mentioned at this judgment." Then he says the part of the verse that says, "whether good or evil" refers to the works of Christians, I suppose negating the idea that this could be describing a general judgement of people destined for either Heaven or Hell.
The verses that I gave earlier (that Not ur Typical has not addressed), that I presented that I think indicates that there is no exclusive, non-judgemental judgment for believers are:

And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment,. . .

and

By this love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because just as Jesus is, so also are we in this world.

Both using the alternate (not bēmatos) Greek word translated as judgement.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I addressed your claim with three reasons from the scripture a few pages ago.

This was in reference to my question about the saying of Jesus about the man who says, "Lord Lord, did I not. . ." You nullify the meaning of Jesus' story by pulling a verse out from somewhere else that says at some future time, everyone will call Jesus Lord. The implication being that the person did not have an affiliation with Jesus and really didn't have anything to do with Jesus, whatsoever and was probably a Jew who never accepted the Gospel message. I figure this is a way of supporting your desire to have it that there is no judgement for you and you never have to give an account of your deeds while on this earth.
Here is the verse that brings up confessing Jesus as Lord,

As a result God exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow – in heaven and on earth and under the earth – and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

This passage goes way back to before Jesus was ever born and I see no indication that it is not going forward way into the future where there are no sinners, since they had already been destroyed, and all those remaining can join with the entire universe to proclaim him and to acknowledge the righteousness of all that God has done.

The "that Day" Jesus is speaking of is the day of judgment, those in Christ do not go to that judgment.

Another unsubstantiated assumption presented as a fact.
Here is part of the verse you cited; "There is no condemnation for those in Jesus Christ. . ." There are different parts of a judgement, two of them being; the charge, and the verdict. This does not eliminate the judgment altogether.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

. . .crowns can be won or lost, takes place in heaven during the opening of the seals and immediately prior to the marriage supper of the Lamb): 1 Thess. 2:19-20

This verse has nothing to do with Christians wearing or being given crowns! Do you just copy everything you read on a blog without even examining it before you present is as being "the word of God"?
As for the "The Doctrine of Rewards: The Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ" blog, it is of absolutely no use for an outsider to your cult because it starts with the premise that the reader already completely buys into all of this nonsense. There is no attempt to substantiate anything for those in the least bit sceptical of all these grandiose claims.
Here is another verse you cite,

Look! I am coming soon, and my reward is with me to pay each one according to what he has done!

Right before that, he was talking about those who were evil, and those who were good, so what is the point? The reward could mean death, in this case. I don't see how this helps your position at all.
You site Romans 14:10 and it has a derivative of the word bema in it. If you continue on a bit in that paragraph, you will find the verse,

Therefore, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Sounds like a judgement to me.

In 1 Corinthians 3, Paul is discussing the church and his work in building it up and that the quality of his work will be found out through the trials of the church and how well if fairs times of troubles.
It is not describing individual believers being given personal possessions of Jewels as rewards for how good of believers or whatever, they were in their lives.

1 John 2:28, 29 And now, little children, remain in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink away from him in shame when he comes back. If you know that he is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been fathered by him.

It looks to me that believers should not fear the coming of Christ if they have been practicing righteousness, which is what I believe but Not ur Typical seems to think that this verse upholds his opinion (or "the word of God" in his mind, which he equates his opinion with) while I can not see how it could.
Oddly, Not ur Typical gives the verses Revelation 3: 11, 12 as substantiating his claim. Verse eleven does have mention of crown but verse twelve continues on in the same style and on the same subject, to say,

The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it.

Obviously it is not to be taken literally, so I don't see this either supporting these claims.

In Revelation 19:8 when Christ returns to set foot on the Earth after all seals have been opened the bride (church) is with Him and rewards have been given out.

Here is the verse Not ur Tpical cites,

She was permitted to be dressed in bright, clean, fine linen” (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints).

This is concerning the Bride of the Lamb, with no other elaboration, such as what and who she is, This is a vision where pictures with symbolic meaning are brought to the mind of John and he is after-the-fact giving a written description of them. This is not a person but something which is a device to indicate that those who are to be joined with the Lamb are pure and behave in a righteous manner. This should make all believers concerned about the judgement where the determination is made as to who, individually, will be part of the Bride of the Lamb, and if we are righteous in our life and our actions.

If the Bride comes with Christ when He returns to Earth. . .

It never says so. It just says something about the Bride's righteousness. There is an army in white linen but the Bride is not a plurality and is not described as being in white, but as wearing bright linen.

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by Godsontoo
What does Genesis 3:15 mean to you ?

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Most christians see this verse as God speaking to Satan. The womans seed being man. (Though some see it as being a prophecy of the messiah). And the serpents seed being the wicked.

What it means to me is irrelevant to the thread.

I guess theres no need to read further then this post because i've already found an issue...

You said specifically you're not christian (anymore) so what is your point of view on this verse?

What it says is obvious, and it has nothing to do with man or woman's seed.

reply to post by Akragon

What it says is obvious, and it has nothing to do with man or woman's seed.

Could you explain what it means? (it's not obvious to everyone)

reply to post by NOTurTypical

3. The Great White Throne judgment: This happens at the END of Christ's millennial reign on Earth (Revelation 20:5), where satan is even judged and cast into the lake of fire. This judgment happens immediately prior to the new heavens and the new Earth being formed and given to all the redeemed from eternity past. (Revelation 20:11-15) The unsaved from eternity past are kept in Hades until this judgment. They are resurrected to stand before the Son of Man. ALL people at this judgment will bow a knee and confess Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father. EVERY soul will confess Him as Lord and bow a knee.

This is for every soul that doesn't know Christ. (Matthew 7:23) Anyone who refuses to take the free gift offered by God through the atonement made possible by His Son will face this judgment. The unsaved at this judgment are judged according to their works/deeds. (Romans 2:5-6)

Revelation is composed of vignettes of these symbolic images John saw in vision. They can not be taken as being necessarily in chronological order or that the time in one of these vignettes is a discrete section of history. Also there could be more than on vignette that covers the same span of historical or foretold future time. One could cover one aspect of the same event and another, a different aspect. One could go into greater detail, or one could leave out the general events and focus in on a small and specific event.
One of these vignettes describes the creation of priests for God, and there are events taking place in conjunction with that creation that involves judgement. These seem to be the same souls mentioned earlier in Revelation of the people killed for carrying the name of Jesus, in this case including not taking the mark of the Beast, as a reason for their having been put to death in a violent way, apparently by the Beast system and its minions. They are said to reign with Jesus for a thousand years.
Perhaps as contrast to the priests from among the martyrs, is another vignette of Satan being imprisoned for a thousand years. Then you see this playing out of what Satan would act like if he was completely unrestrained, which is to get all the wicked and warlike people of the Earth to kill all the godly and righteous people on the Earth untill there is no more. Then there is an event which shows how God could act if that attempt was made, which is that He has the power to destroy everyone on Earth, instantly, if He so chose to do so.
Then there is a setting up of a scene where everyone is judged, including everyone who has ever lived, to see if they are to continue after evil is abolished. I do not see that this stipulates that everyone brought up for judgement are all killed.

If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life,. . .

Would seem to indicate it is not a foregone conclusion, and that some would in fact be found worthy to go on living and to join in with those who had gone through the worst of trials and been given a priestly status.

Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by Akragon

 

What it says is obvious, and it has nothing to do with man or woman's seed.

Could you explain what it means? (it's not obvious to everyone)

edit on 2-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)

My pleasure...

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel...

en·mi·ty/ˈenmitē/
Noun: The state or feeling of being actively opposed or hostile to someone or something...

Men and women don't understand each other. Its always been that way... Men think logically, we try to solve problem. Women think differently then we do, they empathise with every situation they come across. Which is why we clash. Ever heard the saying men are from Mars, and women are from venus? Thats the idea...

And of course, it shall bruse thy head... Both sexes have this issue, Heart break... screws up your head and your heart....

And bruise his heel... Of course any man would change his path for the love of the right woman, and same goes for a woman. Attraction of the opposite sex always creates a stumbling block for people...

But we live and learn...

reply to post by Akragon
Nice analysis but has nothing to do with Genesis three's telling of God's pronouncement against the serpent.
Verse 16 is what I have focused a lot of my study on and it is because of all the various interpretations of it and the rather demeaning conclusion they draw towards women. For example the almost universal labeling of the passage as "the curse of Eve" which is derogatory from the get-go and has no support from the actual text.

reply to post by Akragon

Men think logically, we try to solve problem. Women think differently then we do, they empathise with every situation they come across.

Have you met every man and every woman? Perhaps a generalisation.

I'm not accusing you of being a sexist but i'm sure many women would disagree with your opinions or analysis of the differences between male and female.

reply to post by Klassified


Why are you no longer a Christian? and....what do you currently believe now?

reply to post by jmdewey60


So what would you suggest? Should I take a Sharpie and cross out Romans 8:1 and 10:9 from my Bible?

Should I consider that maybe Jesus was full of it in John 6:37?

reply to post by NOTurTypical
If you look at my mini-profile next to my posts, you may notice it says, Bible scholar of Revelation.
That is because that is what I have spent my life doing. What I learned in my study is that no one has it all figured out. If you are listening to someone who claims that he does, then that should be a warning. You seem to be reciting a formulation that has everything put into its proper place. I have never seen that sort of thing in any religion. What this appears to be, to me, is something created for a specific agenda, where they want to make sure the interpretations always go to their advantage. Who these people would be is easy enough to figure it out and it is the modern illegal regime in Palestine calling themselves Israel. Even the (good) Jews who believed in Israel are moving away because they can not stand the way the country is acting. These are not godly people, like Netanyahu.

reply to post by jmdewey60


That response addressed nothing I asked you a post above.

1. Should I remove Romans 8:1 and 10:9 from my Bible?
2. Was Jesus not telling the truth in John 6:37?

Thanks,

NuT

reply to post by NOTurTypical
No, you just have to read them in their context and not listen to people promoting their own sect telling you what you are supposed to think they mean. I am really serious about this and that is why I made my last post to explain who is behind all this. The same sort of people behind the "banking crises" and all the wars the US is currently involved in. They have lots of money and influence, enough to create whole new religions to pop up, that will lend support to their agenda. The point being, once someone has this position to where they can dictate every doctrine in the church they pay for, they are going to mess with every component of it. These are not stupid people and they study their victims thoroughly to find how to create faults to exploit and that is how they control people.
The verses you mention are very easy for me to understand because I can read them for what they are, without a lot of brainwashing to make me think they mean something else.

reply to post by jmdewey60

No, you just have to read them in their context and not listen to people promoting their own sect telling you what you are supposed to think they mean.

Paul and Jesus are both very articulate. There are very difficult passages in scripture, Romans 8:1 and 10:9 are not tough. The Holy Spirit through John was pretty clear in John 6:37.

Anyone who comes to Jesus to be justified will never be turned away (John 6:37). No one who is in Jesus Christ will come under condemnation (Romans 8:1). The only thing necessary to be Justified is trust in Christ's completed work on the cross. Christ made atonement for sin, He is the hero of the story, it's by grace of God we are justified, there will be zero boasting in heaven. The only "judgment" a Christian will face is a judgment of their works, they will be tested with fire and rewards (crowns) will either be won of lost.

I don't know where your extreme Anti-Semitism comes from, but I'm certainly not in the "Kingdom Now" crowd.