Religion, idiots and lack of sensibilities!! WTF?

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pcrobotwolf

 

As stated so many times before, it does not work both ways. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Not on the person that simply has the default position.If you made the claim that unicorns exist it would be on you to prove that they do, not on me to prove that they don't. See how that works? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It's obvious that your OP is not stating your in default position. You bash religion and people who have faith, it seems you're not even on the fence. Your thread title is bias, stating people of faith are idiots and so fourth.

If you dont mind me asking what is your beliefs on creation and life in general? Also please provide proof of your beliefs...

I do not carry the burden of proof as the person who states there is something must offer that up!!

If we as a society are too accept that their is a god (DIFFERENT from faith, can't some people see that) then why in society can one not rightly claim in a court of LAW that "god told me to kill". The reason I ask is because the LAW states that abusing insulting someone because of their religion is an offense. Meaning that the law takes things like religion seriously.

However, you will come back and say that everyone should be entitled to believe in what they choose. But we know that is not correct and the same protection is not afforded for all. I for instance do NOT believe in god (hence is will not use a capital G when spelling god) but my right to not believe is not observed when each bank note I use carries the mockery "in god we trust" or if someone abuse me verbally for my belief in say Aliens. Why is that belief not afforded the same status under LAW as god.

It is easy to say we must have faith. But faith alone is nothing short of hope and hope is nothing short of wishful thinking.


Faith bares no common sense. It is illogical and mindless at best. When they build a car safety standards must be met. They don't simply say "have faith". You would not place your child in the hands of a sex offender who has served his time under the penalty of law and merely shout to your friends "we must have faith".

It is subjective at best. Meaning it should be kept out of the live of non-believers who were the norm before this god came along!!

reply to post by inthemass


My thread title does not actually say religious people ARE idiots. Read it carefully. It merely has those words in the same sentence.

And even if I did think that Religious people are Idiots am I not allowed under the "belief" system religious people are sheltered under? I should have the right to believe anything I so wish and state it. After all Religion is stuffed down OUR throats all day long everywhere we go.

As pointed out, faith requires that there be NO PROOF.
If there was proof, it would destroy the value of the faith.

Religion and faith (as opposed to science and knowledge) serve a purpose, and that lies within the emotional regions of the mind and body. It is a tool for directing and canalizing emotion.

For it to be effective, the belief must have a sublimated nature, that is disconnected from the physical world. It allows the person to have a « safehaven » into which they can turn and regulate their emotional responses regardless of exterior events.

It is important in developing and using endurance, for example. If in a very difficult powerless situation for a length of time, ones body can quickly become fatigued and filled with toxins formed by the release of stress hormones that is continuus. The hormones that give one the strength and ability to take physical action against a threat, build up in the body if not spent. Many situations in life leave us powerless for a period- childhood, for an example of one we all go through.

With faith, one can turn away from focus on the outer context and focus upon inner symbols and images and ideas which can stimulate the body to have a different physiological reaction. Calm and security, for example. This aids the person to endure the period of difficulty better, keep his/her body in better health, and have less energy waste.

It can also be used to stimulate emotional states of higher energy, to facilitate movement and action when needed and the exterior context does not offer signs of survival threat to stimulate it automatically.

It is a tool for self mastery of emotional state in which being not of the exterior world, but of the interior world is essential.

If one has « proof » (scientific, empirical) then that links it to the exterior objective physical world, and the turning within or interiorization process to pull focus OFF the exterior is no longer possible. So for people of faith, it would be highly undesireable to have that.

In fact, even this post is from one atheist to another, and not at all written for the believers, who would not appreciate it, as it is a hypothesis which « grounds » or disempowers somewhat their belief. I do not write it to do that to them.

reply to post by JaxCavalera


I did not say it's a pointless subject. It just causes pointless arguements... People believe what they believe. Why does that bother some people?

reply to post by TheButcher23


Tilte of thread "religion, idiots and the lack of sensibilities. Wtf"

Is the subject of proof your focus? Why bring in religion?


Also you did not answer my question... Why not? Is it becuase the lack of proof in your beliefs?

Originally posted by inthemass

Originally posted by megabytz
reply to post by pcrobotwolf

 

As stated so many times before, it does not work both ways.
If you dont mind me asking what is your beliefs on creation and life in general? Also please provide proof of your beliefs...

edit on 29-6-2011 by inthemass because: Tired, worked 16 hours and made typing errors.

I have no beliefs as such. Any beliefs I may or may not of stated are coincidental and for the purpose of the post they were in. IE Aliens. I do not hold belief in anything that can not be proven. For example. Aliens in all probability (if you understand how probability works in a mathematical sense) likely do exist. But no one has ever seen one or have proof they do. So I will hold off in believing till I meet one in person.

Originally posted by TheButcher23
I do not carry the burden of proof as the person who states there is something must offer that up!!

meaning you believe in nothing huh. didnt think anyone would catch that huh. So science isn't right as well?

edit on 29-6-2011 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-6-2011 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by inthemass
reply to post by JaxCavalera

 

I did not say it's a pointless subject. It just causes pointless arguements... People believe what they believe. Why does that bother some people?

No you didn't say those exact words but your implication was that any discussion around the subject would be a waste of time and develop no benefits... My post aimed to justify topics like this and point out the multitude of benefits that are to be had from such discussions.

Originally posted by inthemass
reply to post by TheButcher23

 

Tilte of thread "religion, idiots and the lack of sensibilities. Wtf"

Is the subject of proof your focus? Why bring in religion?

PROOF is needed. Why does the US government have to prove to the masses that they did not commit 9/11 mass murder? Why should they have to if they believe they didn't do it?

Why is it not excepted at face value like the belief in god - who by the way has had untold mass murders throughout history in his name. Some even carried by god himself!!

The reason I am so annoyed is that we require proof these days for anything that we are too believe, aliens, 9/11, illuminati, you name it the people of ATS (who i used as my testing ground in the OP) want proof. They say its needed. But when it comes to god those same people say "no proof is needed, we just believe". Well anyone can say that about anything.

Just like the US government are saying that about their OS on 9/11. Why should they prove it to the public? They believe there story so that should do.

Now you will come back with typical believer morality and state how faith and god is personal and transcends human collective needs and all the other BS religious people use to justify a fairy story about a man who in the OLD TESTAMENT killed close to 33 million people!! Oh yeah, I forgot - they changed it in the NEW TESTEMENT SO NOT TO PUT MODERN BELIEVERS OFF!!! nice one!

Originally posted by JaxCavalera

Originally posted by inthemass
reply to post by JaxCavalera

 

I did not say it's a pointless subject. It just causes pointless arguements... People believe what they believe. Why does that bother some people?

No you didn't say those exact words but your implication was that any discussion around the subject would be a waste of time and develop no benefits... My post aimed to justify topics like this and point out the multitude of benefits that are to be had from such discussions.

A good point yet, flawed. If a respectable conversation was to take place then im sure it would be a great discussion with benefits. What was the title of this this thread?

Just another disrespectful thread. Maybe reworded, we could benefit.

reply to post by inthemass


Maybe the title was out of context and not needed.

I have not come here to call names. I am just someone who like debate about topics that are touchy among my regular listeners and friends.

But thanks anyway!

reply to post by TheButcher23

You seem to be very irritated towards religion for it's faults without realising that society and it's current demand for proof on everything is just as much at fault. If you don't need to gather the proof that the Earth has gravity and just accept it and believe it does.. Nothing changes.. well except that you are more quickly able to base further principles upon that belief. If further principles based on a belief turn out to not pull through .. what's lost? As I said before, even science and it's demands for proof get things wrong. The difference is that if a belief is right, you are light years ahead of those that are still plotting along trying to piece together their proof.

Society has been conditioned by the mass media to expect certain things from a situation. Logic, Proof and usually Motive... without these 3 criteria, most things would seem to lack sufficient evidence to support a solid "belief" by modern day standards.

Even christians resort to the Bible for their proof and treat it like the courts treat societie's laws... I think it's just a social conditioning that has come about to slow down mankind's development and hinder us from true progression (as also stated in My Previous Post post by JaxCavalera


There's no need to be so angry towards people for not falling victim to the Mass Media's attempts at influencing society and re-conditioning us as described above. This is a great thread with lots of potential if we can eliminate the charged aggression where possible.

reply to post by TheButcher23


I have respect for you and enjoyed the debate. I'm still on the fence myself with religion. Although we seek proof, deception seems to prevail. I believe questioning is good/ human nature, but disrespect for ones belief is not. Have a good night and I look forward to your posts.

You are right, faith is believing without proof, so for that matter I have decided to pledge my allegiance to the God Apophis.......Just Joking! I heard about the God Apophis on the Stargate G1 series on SyFy channel, then later I found one that Apophis was an ancient Egyptian God.

on a more serious mode, I do not believe in any religion, I consider my self an Agnostic-Atheist, I accept that there is something far greater than we are out there, just that I cannot prove or disprove it right now. There has been a few cases in my life where when I was younger I was able to some how bend time or something, or just run very very abnormally fast especially when I was in danger so I was able to escape from the bad peoples. That tells me about the possibility of supernatural events. I think that "God" is within each one of us, we possess God like powers, we just need to learn how to activate it.

Religion, in my opinion, has been created by the ancients to control the masses and/or to suppress the masses' spirituality.

I believe in God, not the Gods portrayed in the Religions.

I believe in the after life.

I believe in the possibility of Reincarnation after death.

I believe that there are good demons and bad demons since the word Demon originally came from Greek and the word Demon is not an English work, it was never translated, it comes from the Greek work -- Daemon, which in English it means "Genius Being" or to be smart, or Being of Intelligence. Now that you know what the work Demon really means in English, it would look stupid to recite along with your priest on next church meeting "We Reject All Demons and their Works" as all what you are textually saying in 100% pure English terms is: "We Reject All Being of Intelligence and their Works".... Of course that's exactly what the churches wants people to do, because by rejecting all being of intelligence and their works (exposing religions, contradictions, etc) you are only left with the sheeples around you that has no (scientific/intelligence) clue on what is going on and only accepts what the church tells them, that way, the church gets to eliminate as much as possible the threat of their members leaving them which translate to less people paying the church their $ 10% weekly tithes.

So, I guess if you are smart, if you are very intelligent, by default, the church rejects you because you already know too much and know to be an Agnostic at best or Atheist at worst.

Many many people believe that evil exists in the world - either through experience or horrors that they have witnessed.
Yet they cannot believe that the opposite exists.

That was me.... Until the signs of our times hit me out of the blue. That simple - I had always believed that pure evil existed, and then my eyes opened to the fact that the opposite must therefore exist. I call it God, and many others call it something else -

Proof is not needed.

Originally posted by CanadaMaster
You are right, faith is believing without proof, so for that matter I have decided to pledge my allegiance to the God Apophis.......Just Joking! I heard about the God Apophis on the Stargate G1 series on SyFy channel, then later I found one that Apophis was an ancient Egyptian God.

on a more serious mode, I do not believe in any religion, I consider my self an Agnostic-Atheist, I accept that there is something far greater than we are out there, just that I cannot prove or disprove it right now. There has been a few cases in my life where when I was younger I was able to some how bend time or something, or just run very very abnormally fast especially when I was in danger so I was able to escape from the bad peoples. That tells me about the possibility of supernatural events. I think that "God" is within each one of us, we possess God like powers, we just need to learn how to activate it.

Religion, in my opinion, has been created by the ancients to control the masses and/or to suppress the masses' spirituality.

I believe in God, not the Gods portrayed in the Religions.

I believe in the after life.

I believe in the possibility of Reincarnation after death.

I believe that there are good demons and bad demons since the word Demon originally came from Greek and the word Demon is not an English work, it was never translated, it comes from the Greek work -- Daemon, which in English it means "Genius Being" or to be smart, or Being of Intelligence. Now that you know what the work Demon really means in English, it would look stupid to recite along with your priest on next church meeting "We Reject All Demons and their Works" as all what you are textually saying in 100% pure English terms is: "We Reject All Being of Intelligence and their Works".... Of course that's exactly what the churches wants people to do, because by rejecting all being of intelligence and their works (exposing religions, contradictions, etc) you are only left with the sheeples around you that has no (scientific/intelligence) clue on what is going on and only accepts what the church tells them, that way, the church gets to eliminate as much as possible the threat of their members leaving them which translate to less people paying the church their $ 10% weekly tithes.

So, I guess if you are smart, if you are very intelligent, by default, the church rejects you because you already know too much and know to be an Agnostic at best or Atheist at worst.

Haha, so you have beliefs of many religions, but mixed together. In the bible demons are masters of deception and are very clever/intelligent. Money drives everyome btw, if to help others or to be consumed by greed. Not everyone is corrupt you know...
When people have faith they try to save "lost souls" not just steal money. But who knows, time for bed, daily grind tomorrow.

reply to post by WhoKnows100


Yes, good point. We all see what we call evil. If you believe in evil, can you not believe in good?

reply to post by TheButcher23

Using ATS as my ground that you may all be familiar with I am mind boggled over the Religion fad!!

Religions are belief systems that have existed for tens of thousands of years (maybe longer) They are systems that have underpinned the human moral, ethical and behavioural code and entire civilisations have been built upon these beliefs.

Some bad things have come out of some religions for sure, but to dismiss them as a “fad” shows a distinct lack of wisdom in my opinion. Sorry.


Regardless of if you believe in God or not... religion has helped people conquer their fears; a quick prayer can give the fireman the courage to run into the burning building to attempt the rescue, it can comfort a person facing imminent death, or help ease the stress before a big test in life. Who cares what you think if it helps others??

And please don’t go down the whole tired "religion causes wars" argument.

Religion doesn’t cause wars, people do. Religion is often sadly used as the excuse for war but if you remove the thinly veiled deception you often find it is to do with land, power, and politics.

People who follow their religious belief correctly would not be waging wars because at the centre of the vast majority of religions is a massage of peace. If a few "religious" idiots cannot see that and choose to cherry pick paragraphs of religious text and interpret them out of context to fit their personal agenda then that’s the fault of those individuals, not the religion.


Peace

reply to post by TheButcher23


Conspiracy theories arn't always unfalsifiable. Probabilities can be calculated in regards to UFOs (Hubble telescope data), and perhaps 9/11 to some degree;

Personally, i found the "official" account of 9/11 to be more like a wacko conspiracy theory. And a majority have gobbled it up without asking questions; whether it's ultimately true or not.

Fortune telling, Tarot card reading, Astrology, Homeopathic medicine and talking to the dead all rely on the unfalsifiable nature of the claim; cold reading is a techqiue that can be easily used to fake wisdom; to pretend that you are revealing the unknown; i definetly think religion is in that ball park.

Where magic is a physical conjuring trick, religion and most of the above are verbal conjuring tricks; Very deceptive and not logical or honest.



Faith is not wanting to know what is true.