Religion, idiots and lack of sensibilities!! WTF?

Originally posted by inthemass
I hate these religous threads. If you don't believe in a creator, fine. If you do, fine.

Where's the beef?

Starting a thread about religion = pointless arguements.

Agree to disagree, we all share one thing. That thing is death. In the end we will know the truth, may it be heaven or hell or simple nothingness.

Whatever your belief it shouldn't really matter that someone you are most likely never going to meet thinks something different.
I love these debates. If you are a a believer in God then it encourages you to ask questions about issues. In other words you will either lose faith or become stronger in it. If you lose faith then it wasn't really that strong in the first place. I know Christians and atheists will always debate on this subject. Both thinking they know the other so well but in truth neither fully understands the others reasons. The human mind is so complex it is impossible to give a simple answer to eithers faith. But debating can help people understand, so what's wrong with it?

reply to post by TheButcher23


the bible says for believers who are trying to share the word of god, to "not cast your pearls to the swine"! do you find this offensive?

reply to post by Dezero


you should read the book "23 minutes in hell". also , if a believer offers you the word of God, and a testimony of how it has helped them, they are offering you a salvation from an eternal punishment of hell. that is all.

God was invented by the elite to steal money from the uneducated and poor. Fear is always a good motivator, ever seen a poor church? The rich and powerful get that way buy inventing things like god, then tell stories to make it seem he is real. Religion is the biggest problem humanity has, without it we might all live in peace.
Can’t kill in the name of god if he aint there.

I stopped reading as soon as you called religion a fad.
I'm not very religious, but seriously, a 'fad'? Religion?

You're at a loss as to why people follow religion?

I'm at a loss as to why anyone cares, and SO angrily, what my personal spiritual beliefs are.
This life is my journey and experience, not yours. You worry about your soul, or lack there of, depending on what you believe... and I'll worry about mine.

Thanks.

The word "faith" is in itself glorification of ignorance.

— n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence

It's not ignorant to believe in a higher power, it's ignorant to believe in something because you were raised a certain way, and to believe what you're told because it's been repeated over and over so many times.

There are billions of people on the planet that aren't too different than you and I. They were just raised with different bedtime stories & Sunday mornings. Wouldn't you want proof that your bedtime stories are more real than theirs? Do you feel that you're 'chosen' and that you have the right religion? That kind of thinking has been around since the dawn of man, and has been one of our biggest downfalls.

Very egotistical, In my opinion of course.

reply to post by TheButcher23


I feel the same way, I don't understand why people believe in it. Now we are seeing that churches are claiming that they found this in history and that, and they haven't their isn't one single drop of evidence. If you argue with a person over religion they understand that their is proof that is why they always get mad. Then, they break down and say well it has to do with faith...

Originally posted by Partygirl
God works in your Heart to engender faith.

Faith comes from the heart, not the head.

Trying to judge faith with the mind only (i.e., no heart) is like going to a movie and closing your eyes or stopping your ears: You will get the sights but not the sounds, or the sounds but not the sights. True faith takes root in the heart and mind, just like a movie needs both sound and visuals. This is the error of most athiests, who approach the issue solely from the head.

Your "heart" is in your brain.

Making lifelong decisions based on emotion, instead of logic, is no better than blindly believing in things.

Originally posted by inthemass
reply to inthemass

 

JaxCavelera : ....My post aimed to justify topics like this and point out the multitude of benefits that are to be had from such discussions.

inthemass : A good point yet, flawed. If a respectable conversation was to take place then im sure it would be a great discussion with benefits. What was the title of this this thread?

Just another disrespectful thread. Maybe reworded, we could benefit.

In some ways, I agree with this; that the post title sets the mood for all posts that follow it within a thread. I also think that it's up to those who post replies in the thread to decide how things play out...

To decide if they are going to roll with the aggression (if any exists) in the Topic's Title or if they are going to make use of the opportunity to maintain decent debate that's more mature than wild swings at eachother out of spite, trolling and immaturity.

I think on the most part this community has managed to avoid letting the title of the thread ruin a great opportunity. But I do agree that a less offensive title would suggest a more level discussion.

reply to post by Dezero
It makes me feel more strongly that perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between the 2 being we have these extreme vies of athiests and christians at both ends.. who's to say that they both aren't right in a sense, just one group is aiming to validate life without the depictino of any supreme power by explaining out in scientific/maths/historic terms all the who, what, when, where and why questions relating to life whilst the other side is relying on faith. But they are both essentially aiming to validate our lives here on earth in one way or another.

reply to post by Paul47

I don't believe that God was invented to steal money from the poor, I do however believe that the churches were. They are a great way to organise multitudes of people into easily managed groups and then brainwash them by taking their pure and innocent fait and twisting it to suit their own needs.

In all essence, wherever you have 1 person leading and the rest following, the ones following are denying themselves their God given right of free will and thinking as they slowly let their own faith erase and become the same faith as their "leader" "priest" "elder" "whatever you want to label the guy at the front of the group".

An interesting thing that I've learned is that you grow and develop more when you are speaking/teaching than when you are listening. If you want to learn how to do something fast. The best way to do it is to try and teach it to someone else and as you are speaking, you'll notice that you are gaining even more understanding and growing and a very fast rate. This is why effective communication is so important.

Back at uni I remember studying the basic principles of effective communication. Basically, it involves :
- The ability to send messages to a person
- The ability to have that message received
- The ability to then have the receiver send back a message

That last part is most important. How can you get effective communication in a situation where there is 1 person doing all the speaking without giving anyone else the opportunity to speak back? The church truely is a money harvesting machine invented by men to take advantage of those seeking the truth. They may not be after money as a primary goal, usually it' driven by greed; greed for power, greed for control and greed to have what is not rightfully theirs. The most important thing to always remember is that The Church Isn't God.

reply to post by jessejamesxx

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a faith in something, it allows people to make quantum leaps forwards that without proof, you can't logically make and hey - as long as the people doing this also are aware that they may or may not always get it right first time around, they're no different than those that rely upon scientific/maths/ "solid" evidense to support their understanding. At the end of the day even that can be wrong and has been proven to be wrong as we have developed newer technologies that allow us to better understand and construct better foundations to base new evidential proof on.

Again, the concept of Churches is that if there are so many people who have identical beliefs together, then by the numbers game they must be right. As you have pointed out in one of your more recent posts in this topic, The attitude that says "Do you feel that you're 'chosen' and that you have the right religion? That kind of thinking has been around since the dawn of man, and has been one of our biggest downfalls.

Very egotistical, In my opinion of course."

Really is the cause of our demise and it taints what could be a very good thing. IF people could let go of their fears of the unknown, they wouldn't need to rely on a group of people to base their "faith" upon and to use as a starter-block for their run through life.

The thought that other people are wrong because they are not a part of your church or don't believe exactly what you believe is exactly that : Egotistical and Segrational...it is the thing that goes against everything that Jesus was seekig to achieve. He wasn't about "helping those poor unsaved souls who just don't know any better the poor lost sheep".. He was about helping those who wanted to be helped. He may refer to them as lost sheep, but I think perhaps we have taken that out of context.

(it is my belief that) Jesus was the son of God and for him to refer to those that have no belief in him based on his personal understanding of who and what God is, that is justified. We are not Jesus so we do not possess that same understaning yet which is why we are all hungry for knowledge to grow and learn... For us to clasify people we deem to be lost sheep, unsaved, lesser than us .. poor silly ignorant athiests or whatever you would typically refer to those that don't believe what you believe...

Nothing good can come from this. It fails to helps us really help those that are seeking help and instead stirs up hate and unrest between our differences...which makes room for exploitation to occur through things like a Church organisation etc..

Again a lot of people will probably find my thoughts on this offensive but these are just my own thoughts and hey should something that strikes true to my own conscience come along the book of my beliefs is never closed


p.s. sorry for the long post I kinda got caught up in this exciting topic~~~

reply to post by TylerDurden2U


The bible also says the victim of rape must marry the rapist, do you find that offensive?

"Suppose a man is caught raping a young woman who is not engaged. He is to pay her father the bride price of fifty pieces of silver, and she is to become his wife, because he forced her to have intercourse with him. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. -Deuteronomy 22:28-29

reply to post by TheButcher23


You want to see God's I.D., driver licence and social security number, maybe a blood test and a resume too.

Remember this thread because this is the one that put an stigma on you as dumb forever worldwide.

double post

Religion in my opinion is everything we hate individually rolled up into a nice package and sold to the masses.

1) It is a control based system
2) It is a pyramid system
3) The follower have no real access to the real information
4) The follower do as they are told without questioning the end result for fear of isolation
5) The leader of each religion is unfathomably wealthy and unattainable
6) The crimes that happen within these organizations are tolerated far more that that of your neighbor (pedophiles for example)
7) The Original god in the OLD testament (not the new 2.0 version in the NEW testament) is akin to many a dictator who murders, beats, and destroys with no qualm.
8) This is my favorite - when debating with the religious they have no REAL argument for the proof of god. In fact NOT 1 has ever proved it.....EVER!!

Originally posted by TheButcher23
Religion in my opinion is everything we hate individually rolled up into a nice package and sold to the masses.

1) It is a control based system
2) It is a pyramid system
3) The follower have no real access to the real information
4) The follower do as they are told without questioning the end result for fear of isolation
5) The leader of each religion is unfathomably wealthy and unattainable
6) The crimes that happen within these organizations are tolerated far more that that of your neighbor (pedophiles for example)
7) The Original god in the OLD testament (not the new 2.0 version in the NEW testament) is akin to many a dictator who murders, beats, and destroys with no qualm.
8) This is my favorite - when debating with the religious they have no REAL argument for the proof of god. In fact NOT 1 has ever proved it.....EVER!!

I'll give a Star to points 1 through to 6.. I don't follow any positive or negative associatins with 7 and 8 .. well you're not recognising that a belief in something that you don't have the technology or understanding yet to explain requires some level of faith.

reply to post by megabytz


that would be under the old testament and covenant. Jesus' death and resurection made a new covenant and an addition to the bible. you dont have to sacrifice animals either. so no, im not offended. im glad we have a much simpler set of rules to follow than moses. back to my question. does that offend you that my God has instructed me to not waste my time preaching to people who are not going to listen, only waste time and make fun of me( do not cast your pearls to the swine)?

Originally posted by TheButcher23
I am at a loss as too why people follow religion.

Using ATS as my ground that you may all be familiar with I am mind boggled over the Religion fad!!

People on ATS always, ALWAYS ask for PROOF. Just check out any 9/11 thread and the word PROOF is rampant and wild. LOOK at any UFO thread and video evidence and pics are paramount in order to show PROOF.

PROOF, PROOF, PROOF - But not in religion!!

Good ATS people are blindly accepting the word of people who they do not even know. Stories that have been changed to suit the present day people's perspective. But YET they still believe in god!!

Why is logic and sensibility lost for this one subject when it is always applied or at least attempted in all others. We did not except that Light was 186,000 miles per second in speed related terms. We set out to prove it by measuring it.

But with god, NO PROOF is offered yet people fall over themselves to accepts it and actually argue that its true and no proof is needed.

WTF?

I'm curious...Why exactly do 'YOU' require proof in what 'I' believe?
The reasons I believe in God has nothing to do with 'You', just as your choice not to believe has nothing to do with 'Me'
I've never asked you to present 'Proof of NO GOD' to support your position on the matter, so why is it that You ask Me (indirectly, of course)???
What? Do you need validation for others to believe what they choose to believe?

Well...whatever the reason, my religious views and beliefs has no direct impact upon You or Your Life. Therefore, I do not see any real reason why I have to justify myself or my beliefs simply because You need PROOF!!!

reply to post by TheButcher23


prove to me Obama is american. you cant even prove to me this man was born on this planet, but i will give you a chance. did your parents love you? can you prove that? can you prove to me that you are human and not a automated response program or a scientist. try it. all of ATS is watching. prove it.

reply to post by jessejamesxx


how many billions of people? can you provide some documentation or links? or should i have "faith" that you are presenting fact? keep in mind, that would be ignorant.

I was agnostic for thirty years.

I said things I would later regret with all my heart.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind.

Just take notice....You cannot just take words back.

They matter. So whatever your comment is.

Do not use words you may someday regret.