Opposable Thumbs

Opposable Thumbs



This is part 2 of “God was a space alien and NOT our real creator.”



First of all I think it’s important to make clear that I’m not trying to start my own religion, and I’m not a messiah. Most of the concerning feedback I have received seems to be coming from the believers in the evolution theory, and disagreements about the DNA. If it wasn’t clear in my original OP (which I recommend you read first if you haven’t already)(also beware I might repeat some things here). There are obvious reasons why people would seek out the path of evolution for answers to our existence. People will always struggle looking for answers until they open their eyes, mind, and look for some common sense clues. I left out a lot of explanation that would have covered this area, because I assumed that most already knew about all of this.


Many different videos I have watched are referencing the change of DNA in visual form. One blogger has even told me there is no way to tell when DNA has been tampered with, but turns around and says these changes have been witnessed in the wild. WTF! My eyes aren’t that good and any attempts of observation that I’m aware of must be done with equipment in a lab. The only option to identify changes under this idea are if they test something and mapped it, (by taking samples but leaving it in the wild) to test it again later and find changes. I seriously question this with the exception of mutations and propagation sections. DNA defects and Mutations are being accepted by evolutionists as proof that we evolved from primates. For some reason I always thought mutations were accidents, and unwanted, but do occur. Either way, there is no proof that there is not some type of intervention or something explainable to cause it to happen. The question is weather or not its natural.



Of course it’s not, otherwise standard elements of offspring would be expected to change all the time. Rather than two feet, some people might have 3,4,5, or 6 or more feet as an example. Someone replied to me on here indicating that on a rare occasion, methylation occurs naturally in the wild. Another words, a rare virus and rare circumstance has altered specific gene segments, and is somehow able to to recreate the complex steps necessary to alter DNA. I don’t believe it, but even if it was true, there is still that lack of proof that it happened to us, in an evolution manner. I have seven things that tell me there was alien intervention that caused our altered sections of DNA. Evolutionists have nothing more than the idea that we could have evolved, but seem to be missing all of the pieces of this theory. There are theory’s followed with theory’s followed with theory’s and not one shred of hard core evidence for any of them. I don’t see that with my findings. I feel comfortable that most if not all of it is pretty solid. Evolutionists can call the bible a fairy tale, they can call Pye a fraud, call Von Daniken a fraud, call Sitchen a fraud, assume there is no other life in the cosmos, call my 3 decades of study of the paranormal a waste of time, and assume the DNA findings are inconclusive or not proof. I think there are too many things in my favor here.



We have had the ability for sometime now to gene splice, and from what I’m able to understand, doing so leaves trace evidence that a change was made. I have gotten a lot of feedback about little to no information anyone can find about the laminate or its color, and Lloyd Pye’s video is not accepted by most evolutionists. Which is fine with me because I don’t think he was trying to prove evolution. We have no proof of stages of evolution much less proof or reason why it ever happened. What we do however have, is mass amounts of redundant aptation which is the opposite of evolving, but could be mistaken as such by desperate evolution seekers. If I have made any mistakes in the DNA understanding, I’m confident to say that it’s only one of 8 things pointing to the same result but we also have exact wording from the bible that also seems to back it up as well. I take that very strongly, and used to think the bible was a fairy tale like most evolutionists do.



I didn’t think it would be necessary to cover examples of just how bad off we are in our adaptation, but I guess I have to. Evolutionists seem to feel we have evolved in leaps and bounds. Lets look at that for a tad. I could almost pick anything to start with but lets look at shoes. We made shoes because our feet would be subject to severe damage otherwise. Mother nature kicked back by giving us fungus, calluses, blisters, arch problems, bunions, and many other problems. If this was evolution, it sucks.



Here is one of my favorites, living indoors. We basically had to recreate all of the necessities because it’s not easily available like it should be to support us. This adaptation includes but is not limited to:

Heat, AC, Carpet or hard flooring, Plumbed water services, ventilation, Stove, fridge, Washer dryer to wash adaptive clothing, Dishes and utensils to eat with. If we had actually evolved we would not have needed any of these things. It’s plain and simple, we didn’t evolve, we have adapted, and if you look at almost anything you deal with in everyday life, you will most likely see adaptation. When we adapt, it’s because we failed to evolve.



Another example I can give is our food options. There are very limited circumstances where you might be able to get by for a short time, living in the wild without adaptation. At best it’s not healthy for us. Just in our food options, we have desperately resorted to processed food, as yet another type of adaptation. It’s another clue that something is not here, that we need in our diet. Our adaptation history has not only blinded us to whats going on, but it’s making us sick. Of course this again is NOT evolution, it’s adaptation. Evolving would have been us getting use to whats available, and whats not, and just accepting things the way they are rather than trying to make new foods, and process them. Evolutionists might say thats our decision and not a need so it’s our fault. But why did we do it to begin with? It’s because we feel that something is missing from our intended diet. Our need for adaptation is so strong that we even breed animals for meat otherwise we would get sick and die. I don’t know how much more obvious this mess can be, we aren’t from here. We even cut and maintain our lawn and gardens to fit our needs and prevent problems associated with our needs. It’s an example of us trying to make other things adapt to our needs. Again, it’s not a good idea of evolution.



It wasn’t until I realized how the paranormal, was actually a major part of the bible. Eric Von Danakin’s “Chariots of the Gods” claims that the city burned in Sodom and Gamora was by an atomic bomb, and that the Ark of the covenant was a radio device. One of my close friends that is also into the paranormal tells me there are even walkie talkies in the bible called “gems.” It’s not shocking, the bible is actually full of advanced technology and this is a major reason why people have had such a hard time understanding and accepting it. Trying to spot the technology, and understanding it compounds the frustration for sure if your not open to it. Whats even harder to grasp is that this wasn’t all because god and other alien life helping him were so much more advanced than us, but because God had altered us, and made us dumb and powerless in order to keep us as faithful slaves. So much so, he had to issue us the ten commandments. Our race is probably as old and as intelligent as his is. Keep in mind he set us back about 192,000 years by erasing our memory’s, and removing some of our higher ability’s.


*Evolutionists are trying to tell me that methylation occurs naturally in the wild. Which is fine and dandy, not that I believe it but the problem is that there is still no proof it happened to evolve us. At least the bible is indicating in Isiah 6, making some of our senses stronger, by what seems to be removing others, because we weren’t being loyal.


*If Lloyd Pye is wrong, and altered DNA is not identifiable, he would have been busted as a fraud for it and would have had nothing to base his findings on.


*We have six segments not only methylated but inverted as well. I think the reason someone would do this is to trick the chain into keeping the change. From what I have learned on related DNA experiments with plants, if you make obvious changes like in the segment count, the DNA is smart enough to realize tampering and resets itself, not keeping the change. I have nothing that indicates exactly what the found changes in our DNA have caused. We also have a plethora of dormant DNA they call junk DNA, and the arrangement don’t match with anything else they have seen before with DNA. I believe the six segments could be switches to the dormant areas, which are our powers, and much more. If your curious to know what type of powers, the only thing I can tell you is it appears obvious that Jesus was normal. So whatever powers Jesus had, we are also suppose to also have. Jesus was not special, he was normal, we are the altered ones.


* IMO our real creator would never take any of our ability’s away from us. He would never punish us for any reason. There is simply to much evidence here on earth that whoever or whatever (depending on what your beliefs are) made us all, has a love for life. If you cut us open, there is life within life, within life. We can even multiply to make life ongoing. It’s unanimous that who ever or whatever made us all, loves life and is a creator not a destroyer.


*God visits us in the bible with what appears to be a DNA mutated creation of lion, ox, eagle, and man. This is a giant red flag and is clear in virtually all versions of the bible. It’s a clue that the guy playing god, is NOT our creator, but more of a mad scientist. Making mutated life from existing life does not make you a creator.


*We have vestigial organs that also support the idea of DNA altering as well. Evolutionists say it’s left over from evolving, or in the mid stages. Yet they aren’t sure what they do exactly. How is it possible to think we have evolved but not know what these organs do? There are claims about some vestigial organs, but do they really know? Do primates have them? Some of them we think we know, but is it possible they do more than we realize? Vestigial organs or inaccurately diagnosed organs could be housing our disabled powers, and we are clueless about it. It’s obvious, we are of an intelligent design, even more so than we always thought. Is it possible we have compensated using technology to make up for our disabled powers? Such as the phone, voice recorder, computers, or Internet. I have nothing to be sure aside from what I know about the study of reports about contacts with other alien life. Some common things reported are: telepathy, TGA (memory erased), paralysis, mind manipulation or control of emotions, shared mind links.



Jesus had his powers, and aliens like to play god / the creator or scientist. I think most people always assumed that God was the father but that goes against every grain of the idea of a creator. It would in essence be mixing races, but also admitting he could have made us better to begin with. We assumed he was the father because his intervention helped created Jesus. But stealing sperm from a normal human they abducted off our home planet (Heaven) and putting it in Mary does not make him the father. Once again he is a mad scientist. Aliens like to play the creator. Artificial insemination does not make you the creator. Jesus’s biological father had unaltered genes, and thus allowed Mary to have a NORMAL human. This is why people have never figured any of this out. Jesus was not special, he was normal. We are the oddballs. So if you ever want to know what type of powers we are missing, just think about how Jesus was, and there you have it. Of course God made sure to retrieve the body of Jesus knowing that leaving his DNA here could set us all free one day.



There is of course no question in my mind, we did not come from primates. It could be confusing because all life (that we know of anyhow) seems to be constructed from the same limited selection of proteins. In addition to this, there seems to be patterns of things about creation in general. Of course complex arrangements of those are what make all life very different from each other. To make things more complicated, human DNA panels are almost identical to primates. Evo followers hang on this as though it’s some type of support to our existence. I look at it like it should be close as we are similar in many ways. That doesn’t mean that we are related. These different views only stem from one thing. The idea or belief of the possibility of other life in the cosmos. You see if there are hundreds of thousands of other humanoid life out there, you might more easily accept and understand how humans are most likely not related to primates, especially when there is other life that we would have a lot more in common with. Adding more complexity is the sections that are allowed to change from parent offsprings, might have been mistaken for sections that aren’t suppose to change.



On the other hand if you don’t believe in other life, it’s easy to accept evolution as the only possibility, since it’s all your willing to see. The theory’s I have observed in evolution are nothing short of idiotic. It’s as though they are reaching into the depths of nothing to try to make sense of things, and I’m not saying that to be hateful, it just obvious. I could say the same thing about the belief in aliens but there are some shocking differences. From 4 million contact reports, according to wikipedia, over 1/2 are gray aliens. The story’s are almost always simular in many aspects. It’s shocking how there can be so many reports, yet we actually know very little about them. Something is VERY WRONG. Even F.E.M.A. believes in aliens. Chapter 13 of there rescue manual explains in detail that approaching an alien or crash site could cause specific things to happen. From your lights on the car going out, to the cars engine just dying and losing all electricity. They could lose contact with the dispatcher for an unpredicted amount of time. I think evolutionists think I enjoy the idea of alien life. Honestly, do you think anyone in there right mind would want to expose themselves to these types of possibility’s? Part of the reason why some find it so hard to understand or accept any of this is due to what God did to us, putting us in the dumb down factor. We were set back 192,000 years. It sucks. Every contact report we hear about, we are always the ones out of control.



Missing 192,000 years of our lineage and some of our abilitys I’m sure has something to do with it. They seem to always be in control, erase our memory, and always have that technological edge over us. Powers of the mind have won them that edge. As mentioned in my first OP, our mitocondrial DNA shows we are 200,000 years old. That ALONE should tell you what is going on here. I covered much thought in proving that we are not from earth, long before I found out that it actually tells us so, in black and white in the bible. The problem is that evo folks don’t usually believe in the bible either. So I guess to evolutionists it doesn’t matter that the bible, DNA and severe lack of evolution evidence all points in the same direction.



Evo peeps would believe that we made a choice to evolve into what we are today from primates. The problem is we are missing the mass amounts of proof that should be here from our lineage. How is it that we can find dinosaur bones but not human evolution bones? There are claims of a very few found, but those are in deep question and we certainly didn’t start out from one or two. Keep in mind, if you think we evolved, then you are saying we did all of it here on earth, why is there no proof? At least with the alien direction, there is a simple answer why there is little to no known accepted proof. They don’t live here, they are advanced, and even when we do get proof, scientists call it an unknown. This doesn’t mean you should just accept and believe everything you hear about aliens, but when 4 million people attest to there existence, don’t you think it just might be possible? Not to mention that some of these people reporting this don’t even believe in aliens. I moved way past this part of acceptance when I thought about one simple thing, over 5 million species exist on earth alone.



Isn’t it ignorant to think we are the ONLY intelligent life ever created? It’s hard to accept the idea that whoever or whatever created us decided to cram all of life’s creations on one small, and limited planet, and not anywhere else out in the cosmos. Pretend for the moment that you had this great gift of creation. Would you stop at one planet? No you wouldn’t. If there is a creator of life out there, I know what he is doing right now. He’s making more, because thats what he does. A strong desire to understand our existence through evolution has led us astray, and I totally understand, we all want to know what happened that brought us here. When I’m unable to un flag things that don’t make sense, I cant accept the theory. Evolution is full of flags, not just one, but a plethora of flags. The sad part is there is simply no excuse for us not having any proof that any of the theory’s apply. If you still feel we originated from earth. Here are some examples to think about.



The problem I keep running into with examples of adaptation being accepted as evolution, is you have to first realize there was a reason why we did it to begin with! Again, because something was wrong to begin with. I would say we spend most of our lives, and time, just adapting. Thats all we do in order to survive here. Forced adaptation is NOT evolution. If anything, we de-evolved, and humans having less DNA than primates is a cold dose of reality on this subject. Humans have two less DNA strands that appear to be fused. Fusing is a lab technique and not found naturally in the wild. Evolutionists would disagree but there is still no proof thats why it happened to us. Aside, our differences are staggering. If evolution were possible in our relation to them, it must take billions upon billions of years to connect us, and sorry to say but the earth isn’t that old. Either way you slice it, evolution is simply not possible in our existence.



Lets look at the human smile. Most other life here on earth smile in a form of aggression. Dogs are a good example. It’s a small clue. Where did we pick up that smile in our alleged evolution? Not that primates can’t smile, they just don’t do it for the same reason. There are different types of smiles as well. There is the happy smile, the forced smile and the misleading smile. It would appear that not only did we want to make our lives harder and more difficult through redundant adaptation but we also wanted to disassociate ourselves with other life in the process? Why is it so difficult for us to agree on how to eat properly? Meat, veggies, junk food, sea food,fast food. Again, it’s not our food is why. God wasn’t so concerned about our health when he dumped us here. It was just what he thought we needed to get by, so we could mine gold for him, to “serve” him. He wasn’t so concerned about our health and life span, in the optimum sense. Let me tell you, if there is a creator that made us, he would be equally as smart to make a planet that would accommodate our specific needs. Earth is not our home. We will forever suffer here as we go about our redundant adaptive needs in this blind manner. Doctors have to treat us from birth and ongoing in life for regular things. Some of which is to avoid sickness and disease and sometimes death. Walk down the medication isles of stores, look at the large sections of medical genre listings in any phone book. (Just look at how we havent evolved) We are sick here people, and we have been blind as to why.



If you think evolution has caused us to become so sick, then you also agree we would be better off to go back to the way we were. If you think our actions to adapt has caused all this sickness, then you have to ask yourself why we were adapting to begin with. Mother nature is not OUR mother. She doesn’t want us to be here and doesn’t want us to adapt either. More importantly she doesn’t want us to try to force her to adapt to our needs, which I’m finding in some rare cases as well. Unfortunately It’s not like we have any other choice at this point. We are stuck here as castaway’s. Aside from water and air, there is actually nothing on this planet that is damming enough to say we fit here but we can’t even drink the water without processing it. Processing is another form of adaptation by the way. We don’t look or act like anything else on this planet. We are not part of any food chain, or at least nothing here is going to die from the lack of eating humans. Not to say that is how it should be. It’s a scary thought for sure. Evo peeps might say we traded dropping out of the food chain for all of the aforementioned. I just don’t buy it. Either way, we would all like to believe our species is above everything else on earth in every way, and there might be an unrealized reason for that.



Here are some more examples of adaptation and the repercussions that don’t add up to evolution:

*Toothpaste: yields a rare side effect in extreme cases of hardening of the arteries. Of course without it we lose our teeth rather fast. Some might argue and say we don’t need teeth. I tend to believe they were included in our design to serve a purpose. This is deeper than you might think. It has to do with us not having the correct diet. Our earth diet is harsh on our teeth. I believe our intended diet is minimal and probably not very tasty like we have manufactured, but easy on the teeth.

*Deodorant: as much as we have to use it, aluminum zirconium has been a suspect of alzhiemers. Some might say it’s not needed, we can just be wet and stinky. The deeper issue here I think is our nose has possibly become more sensitive due to some of the disabled powers.

*Soap: giving us dry skin that on rare occasions can lead to rashes or skin disorders. We are the virus on earth. The virus has to wash because we are constantly under attack. Not that bathing is a bad thing but I think we are higher targets out of our element.

*Shampoo: has done a great job in keeping our hair clean but seems to also dry it out, so we needed to create conditioner. Of course we use chemicals and we all know it always spells trouble.

*Nail clippers: if not used correctly can cause painful hang nails that lead to infection and even bleeding. On our intended planet, our nails would naturally get worn down from there intended purpose, so cutting them would not be necessary. Of course we don’t know what that is exactly because it’s not here on earth. It also explains your purpose in life, it’s not on this earth, but if you came face to face with it on your intended planet, it would be obvious without explanation.

*Suntan lotion: we needed to create protection from the sun that is not our sun.

*Sunglasses: needed to protect our eyes from the sun that is not our sun.

*Eating utensils: have helped us eat since the beginning of time, if you don’t wash them correctly, you can get sick. On rare occasions people hurt themselves with them. On your intended planet, you might not need tools to eat. Tools are forms of adaptation as is farming / harvesting / shipping / processing / packaging / cooking / all the way to washing the dishes. I didn’t even mention working a job to earn money so you can buy the food. Name any other species that goes through what we go through simply to eat a meal. Just look at the lack of evolution here people.

*Heating: keeping us nice and warm and adding to global warming, excessive electricity use or burning wood resources, but we gave up our primate hair?

*AC: and other refrigerant (and cars) were responsible for large holes in our ozone, which has caused a staggering domino affect of many other things. No one has every wondered how it is that our planet is to hot and to cold at the same time. Of course it depends on where you live. But thinking along the lines of limiting us to those tight zones is also saying we weren’t suppose to grow in mass proportions. It’s simply not our home planet. Our home planet most likely keeps us comfortable without the need of clothing, or AC or heat. At best we might wear thin robes or possibly just loin cloths. The extreme variances on earth are a reality check alone that this is NOT our planet.

*Clothing: when god placed us here, it was as though he threw clothes at us and said, btw, you might need these, welcome to your new home. If your creator was smart enough to make you, he would have made a planet to accommodate you as well. If he wanted you to wear clothing, he would have affixed them to your body. Clothing opened up a mess with size differences, sex differences, and they have to be frequently washed. We even made machines to wash them. Do you not see the redundant adaptation here?



Even today, we are slaves in a sense. Not because of our needed adaptation, but because we have to work for crap wages to survive. In part this stems from the vast needs for us to survive here. Some of this stems from one person wanting to own another. The unrealized part is that it’s actually a lot of work and resources to make earth our home. It’s not fair that rich people own poor people to gain even more wealth. It’s even more unfair when we have so many natural things working against us, in terms of survival needs. Some might argue and say that observing other life here on earth, they also see a lot of survival. The difference is they are in their natural habitat, we aren’t, so it’s way more difficult for us. Did you ever wonder who taught us slavery? God did.



We are empty minds when we are born. Almost everything we know we either learned for ourselves or someone taught us. Where did we first learn slavery? We are so above it, well at least now we are. God certainly wasn’t. I have a feeling that the way he set us back, in combination with mind control allowed him to prevail against our common sense. We now know slavery is just wrong. Dropping atomic bombs on city’s is wrong. Mass killing and destruction is wrong. Punishing people for making choice decisions (which he allegedly created us to do) is wrong. Abducting, transplanting, controlling, enslaving, erasing our memory, disabling some of our higher powers is wrong. He would also freak out at our attempts of trying to leave earth. It’s so sad what has happened to us. He screwed us bad.



The result of us living on a planet not made for us is nothing short of cruelty. One person that replied to my first OP told me that it looks like I might be accurate on my findings. He quoted a part from Isaih 6 that blew my mind. It was along the lines of .....
If man does not want to serve the lord than make his ears bigger lest he hears, his eyes bigger lest he sees and his heart bigger so he can love.
I did have to read it three times before I caught it. It’s twisted because it’s almost backwards in a sense. Everyone knows that when someone loses a sense or ability, other senses get stronger to seemingly take up the slack. It was apparent from this passage that he was indicating we need to have some of our ability’s removed as a form of punishment. There is a deeper understanding you might miss in all of this. How did he know how to do this, as well as what it accomplishes? There is only one answer, he has done it before. God had help, as mentioned in plural in the bible. Of course, he had to.



What he did to us would require the help of others. This leads me to believe that his prior knowledge about all of this means we aren’t the only ones he has transplanted to other planets. There could be other humans, or other races, he has altered and transplanted on other planets as well. I don’t think he abducted an entire race, but probably a few dozen, or few hundred. This could explain the gross defects in our genes. Incest! This is also the ONLY connecting theory I have been able to see with evolution (minus the missing proof of bones). Findings in our DNA show a bottleneck in growth right about the same time that we were placed here. If evolution is a possibility this could explain why we can’t find any proof. The only problem is that we are still missing 192,000 years of bones prior to all of this that was not bottle necked, in addition to any proof of those changes. There is just no other explanation other than earth not being our home. I’m getting bombarded with examples and theory’s of how evolution has happened to some things here on earth, but there is simply no proof it’s happened to humans. So all of this alleged proof simply raises an even bigger and more valid question of why we aren’t seeing proof with us.



I see God as someone simply abusing his ability’s for personal gain. I’m shocked at how some people find this so hard to believe. Wow, someone screwing others over for personal gain, imagine that. Now realizing that it’s about different races, this looks more like survival of the fittest, and sad to say, we lost on this one. God knew we were the best pick as transplants on this planet, and with a little control, we should have been good slaves. We might have been the best choice for mining gold and even with disabled ability’s, we could still mine gold for him. I don’t see how other life here on earth would have been able to mine. I’m sure our species was chosen for several reasons, but the one that sticks out in my mind is simply because we have opposable thumbs.

I'm sure you probably have some valid points in there somewhere... but good luck getting everyone to read a post that is half a mile long.

So the gist is, because life isnt perfect,we're not from here? I...wow.

reply to post by itsthetooth

I’m sure our species was chosen for several reasons, but the one that sticks out in my mind is simply because we have opposable thumbs.

So do monkeys and apes.........what were/are they chosen for?

Imagine that! Cats. With thuuuuumbs.

Originally posted by chancemusky
So the gist is, because life isnt perfect,we're not from here? I...wow.

Well I think thats the main problem, people look at it as such, and its a lot worse than you realize. Open up your yellow pages in your phone book and look at how much room hospitals, doctors, physicians, counselors, and pharmacys combined take up and then say to yourself that life just isn't perfect. It's not just not perfect, its downright sick.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

I’m sure our species was chosen for several reasons, but the one that sticks out in my mind is simply because we have opposable thumbs.

So do monkeys and apes.........what were/are they chosen for?

Your question makes no sense, did you read my first OP?

Originally posted by Jepic
Imagine that! Cats. With thuuuuumbs.

OMG.

reply to post by itsthetooth


Its called life, bud. EVERYTHING. DIES. NO MATTER. WHAT.

Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

Its called life, bud. EVERYTHING. DIES. NO MATTER. WHAT.

I'm sorry but I'm not making any sense of your reply. Perhaps it's my fault because I did a sequele to my OP. I'm assuming you never read the original post. Anyhow, yes everything dies. But what if we are suppose to live 300 years? Is it still ok in your eyes?

reply to post by itsthetooth


How does my reply not make sense?Life isntperfect,and never will be.
What if we were meant to live 300 years? We'd live 300 years then. What if Im meant to grow wings and fly away? Thats a completely useless question, thought most of your op is well,ridiculous to say the least. Im not trying to be rude, but this is just, beyond ignorant

Originally posted by deanGI5
I'm sure you probably have some valid points in there somewhere... but good luck getting everyone to read a post that is half a mile long.

And herein lies one of the biggest problems with ATS lately, to paraphrase the above, "I'm going to post a derogatory comment in response to your hard work, even though I have no idea what your talking nor the inclination to find out." I don't put alot of effort into posting threads on ATS lately, it just isn't what it used to be.

Great thread OP, somebody reads them.

Oh wow. Defense by wall o' text. Okay, where to start.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
First of all I think it’s important to make clear that I’m not trying to start my own religion, and I’m not a messiah. Most of the concerning feedback I have received seems to be coming from the believers in the evolution theory, and disagreements about the DNA. If it wasn’t clear in my original OP (which I recommend you read first if you haven’t already)(also beware I might repeat some things here). There are obvious reasons why people would seek out the path of evolution for answers to our existence. People will always struggle looking for answers until they open their eyes, mind, and look for some common sense clues. I left out a lot of explanation that would have covered this area, because I assumed that most already knew about all of this.

Your validity pretty much shoots out the window when you denigrate science with the exultation of "Open your eyes, man!" - yeah, uh, that's actually what science is. Conclusion drawn from observed facts. Ypu start talking about common sense, but from reading your post, I get the notion that your definition of "common snese" is "anything I say"

Many different videos I have watched are referencing the change of DNA in visual form. One blogger has even told me there is no way to tell when DNA has been tampered with, but turns around and says these changes have been witnessed in the wild. WTF! My eyes aren’t that good and any attempts of observation that I’m aware of must be done with equipment in a lab.

Really? Really? How about you apply some of that common sense?
1) collect specimen in the field
2) Bring specimen to the lab for diagnostics.

DNA defects and Mutations are being accepted by evolutionists as proof that we evolved from primates.

Actually no, that proof is in physiology, genetics, and paleontology. Mutations simply provide a possible explanation for that development. You can't point at "mutations" and go "aha! We used to be fish!". Mutations happen anyway, and they are simply supporting evidence for the bigger picture.

For some reason I always thought mutations were accidents, and unwanted, but do occur. Either way, there is no proof that there is not some type of intervention or something explainable to cause it to happen. The question is weather or not its natural.

"There is no proof that there is not..."
See, there' your big mistake. Logic does not work this way; it is impossible to prove a negative. It is only possible to compare positive proofs and deduct the most plausible. You don't have any proof that I am not actually your father, should you therefore start addressing me as "dad"? Of course not.

Of course it’s not, otherwise standard elements of offspring would be expected to change all the time. Rather than two feet, some people might have 3,4,5, or 6 or more feet as an example.

Another fallacy. You're basing your position here on the notion that mutation is random. It's not. It's unpredictable, which is a wholly different thing.

Say you have a bag of yellow, green, red, and white jellybeans. Every time you grab a handful, the resulting mix of colors in your hand will be unpredictable, but you know you will never come up with a purple or blue jellybeans; This is representative of your "normal" organism, which is a sort of grab-bag from regular, predictable genes.

Every now and again though, you might come up with a pair of jellybeans that are fused together, or one where the dye didn't get all the way through the candy, or is slightly bigger or smaller than the average jellybean. You've still got jellybeans, and they're still in the neighborhood of hte four colors we started out with, but are slightly different; variations on a theme. That's mutation.

Your claim would be as if you had a bag of jellybeans that occasionally produced hedgehogs and elemental mercury when you grabbed a handful; that would be random.

Someone replied to me on here indicating that on a rare occasion, methylation occurs naturally in the wild. Another words, a rare virus and rare circumstance has altered specific gene segments, and is somehow able to to recreate the complex steps necessary to alter DNA. I don’t believe it, but even if it was true, there is still that lack of proof that it happened to us, in an evolution manner.

Actually it happens fairly often. whenever a virus infects a cell, it injects its own DNA that then attatches to DNA in that cell, which then starts replicating viruses. Sometimes, that cell will survive infection, and when it divides, the virus DNA goes with it. Generally this isn't passed into further generations unless the gametes of an organism are infected. However in organisms that reproduce asexually, those virus DNA DO get passed on.

Whether it has impacted our evolution or not is a good question. However, it does seem to be a major impact on Bacterial evolution, along with gene-swapping between bacteria themselves.

I have seven things that tell me there was alien intervention that caused our altered sections of DNA. Evolutionists have nothing more than the idea that we could have evolved, but seem to be missing all of the pieces of this theory. There are theory’s followed with theory’s followed with theory’s and not one shred of hard core evidence for any of them.

Again with the ignorance. A scientific theory is not a "hunch." It's a predicted outcome that's been supported time and time again by piles - mountains really - of evidence. it's been tested, retested, examined, poked, prodded, and for all i know, deep-fat-fried, and found to be solid and factual no matter the rigors it's put through. It might as well be called the law of evolution; really the only thing that prevents it from being so is that a scientific law must be a universal constant; since we only know of life on earth, it's possible that life has developed in some other odd way elsewhere. every scientific theory - from evolution to plate tectonics to cells, atoms, and circuits, is supported by a huge body of evidence - else it wouldn't be a theory.

I don’t see that with my findings. I feel comfortable that most if not all of it is pretty solid. Evolutionists can call the bible a fairy tale, they can call Pye a fraud, call Von Daniken a fraud, call Sitchen a fraud, assume there is no other life in the cosmos, call my 3 decades of study of the paranormal a waste of time, and assume the DNA findings are inconclusive or not proof. I think there are too many things in my favor here.

The Bible is more of a cultural epic than a fairy tale; Fairy tales are simple fables with a singular lesson. The Bible's up there with the Kalevala, the Upanishads, the Iliad, and the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Pye is indeed a fraud. Every time he gets a "human" answer about his skulls, he dismisses it as a great conspiracy against himself, and then tries to get someone else to answer. Basically he's got a conclusion and no evidence.

Von Daniken is just sadly ignorant. He's of the "brown people can't stack rocks" school of thought on archaeology. This is the notion that while the Romans and Franks needed absolutely no intervention whatsoever in building their massive architectural wonders, the people of Rapa Nui had to have aliens come show them how to move their moai (even though the islanders demonstrated how to do it to later explorers). it's a steep cultural bias that, until recently, saturated western Archaeology. Basically all of these "ancient mysteries" are only mysteries if you come to the field with the presupposition that people outside classical-modern western Europe are absolute morons.

Sitchen isn't just a fraud; he's a malignant liar and a cultural butcher. He not only has no idea what he's talking about in ANY of the many fields he tries to cover (as varied as history, linguistics, evolutionary biology, theology, and astrophysics) but worse than that he actively makes crap up just to make a good story to sell to folks like you. Good for his pocketbook, I guess - I'd exploit a market niche if I found it, too - but is just horribly dumb when it comes to anything other than entertainment value.

Your three decades weren't wasted so long as you enjoyed them, I guess. Your results are ridiculous, but hey, it's the journey that matters.

We have no proof of stages of evolution much less proof or reason why it ever happened. What we do however have, is mass amounts of redundant aptation which is the opposite of evolving, but could be mistaken as such by desperate evolution seekers.

Lots of proof, actually. As for the reason... Well, what makes you think there has to be a reason? This is a creationist problem, the assumption that everything has meaning or purpose, some grand plan in the sky.It doesn't. Evolution is simply a consequence of reproduction in an inconstant environment (namely, Earth)

Also you seem to be stuck on the notion that there is a "goal" to evolution, that it's a system of progress. it's not. It's simply the collection of changes within given organism populations. Some may be an improvement in one regard, a disadvantage in another, and neutral in all others. And if the conditions change, then all that may jumble into some other arrangement of advantage / disadvantage.

I get the notion that you don't actually understand the concepts you're trying to argue against.

And here we go; let's see how well you understand evolution, but reality itself!

I didn’t think it would be necessary to cover examples of just how bad off we are in our adaptation, but I guess I have to. Evolutionists seem to feel we have evolved in leaps and bounds. Lets look at that for a tad. I could almost pick anything to start with but lets look at shoes. We made shoes because our feet would be subject to severe damage otherwise. Mother nature kicked back by giving us fungus, calluses, blisters, arch problems, bunions, and many other problems. If this was evolution, it sucks.

Yep. Our feet are fragile. Especially if, like most people posting on this board, you travel in layers of socks and shoes all the time. However there are lots and lots and lots of people the world over who go barefoot. Do they suffer damage to their feet? Sure. So does every other organism with feet. Ever seen what can happen to a hoof? And shoes are no real safeguard from harm; ever gotten athlete's foot? Stepped on a nail? chafed? Blistered?

Here is one of my favorites, living indoors. We basically had to recreate all of the necessities because it’s not easily available like it should be to support us. This adaptation includes but is not limited to: Heat, AC, Carpet or hard flooring, Plumbed water services, ventilation, Stove, fridge, Washer dryer to wash adaptive clothing, Dishes and utensils to eat with. If we had actually evolved we would not have needed any of these things. It’s plain and simple, we didn’t evolve, we have adapted, and if you look at almost anything you deal with in everyday life, you will most likely see adaptation. When we adapt, it’s because we failed to evolve.

Ah, once again we encountered the narrow perceptions of a spoiled and pampered westerner. Yes, all those things are great for our comfort and well-being... but we don't actually need them. It's perfectly possible for humans to live without any of hat you just outlined. Granted, having no more protection than the hair on your butt would make living in, say, Alaska rather difficult, but that just goes to show that we, as a species, are not really well-adapted to arctic and subarctic conditions.

We do really well in subtropical forest, though.

Another example I can give is our food options. There are very limited circumstances where you might be able to get by for a short time, living in the wild without adaptation. At best it’s not healthy for us. Just in our food options, we have desperately resorted to processed food, as yet another type of adaptation. It’s another clue that something is not here, that we need in our diet. Our adaptation history has not only blinded us to whats going on, but it’s making us sick. Of course this again is NOT evolution, it’s adaptation. Evolving would have been us getting use to whats available, and whats not, and just accepting things the way they are rather than trying to make new foods, and process them. Evolutionists might say thats our decision and not a need so it’s our fault. But why did we do it to begin with? It’s because we feel that something is missing from our intended diet. Our need for adaptation is so strong that we even breed animals for meat otherwise we would get sick and die. I don’t know how much more obvious this mess can be, we aren’t from here. We even cut and maintain our lawn and gardens to fit our needs and prevent problems associated with our needs. It’s an example of us trying to make other things adapt to our needs. Again, it’s not a good idea of evolution.

Actually the wilderness is absolutely chock full of food sources that are perfectly nutritious, even tasty to eat. If you're informed. It would appear that outdoor survival is another subject with which you are unfamiliar. I'll bet you've never chowed down on grasshopper. Snake eggs? Can you identify mushrooms? Do you know the differences between a root, a tuber, and a bulb? What's the difference between wild parsnip and water hemlock?

We've "resorted to" processed food due primarily to civilizational concerns; most people in our neck of the world don't have the time, knowledge, or territory to engage in subsistence or practical farming. This has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution or adaptations, it's simply a matter of feeding a large number of people who cannot feed themselves.

It wasn’t until I realized how the paranormal, was actually a major part of the bible.

The fact that it hinges around a magic fire-breathing ghost didn't tip you off to start with?

Eric Von Danakin’s “Chariots of the Gods” claims that the city burned in Sodom and Gamora was by an atomic bomb, and that the Ark of the covenant was a radio device.

1) Atomic bombs leave evidence. Lots of evidence. For one, they're, you know, radioactive. Two, they leave telltale geologic formations. None of these exist in the region.
2) He could claim it's a sex toy for wild yaks if he likes; since we do not have any evidence of the thing whatsoever, it could be anything anyone says it is.

One of my close friends that is also into the paranormal tells me there are even walkie talkies in the bible called “gems.”

Don't suppose he could cite scripture for this?

It’s not shocking, the bible is actually full of advanced technology and this is a major reason why people have had such a hard time understanding and accepting it. Trying to spot the technology, and understanding it compounds the frustration for sure if your not open to it. Whats even harder to grasp is that this wasn’t all because god and other alien life helping him were so much more advanced than us, but because God had altered us, and made us dumb and powerless in order to keep us as faithful slaves. So much so, he had to issue us the ten commandments. Our race is probably as old and as intelligent as his is. Keep in mind he set us back about 192,000 years by erasing our memory’s, and removing some of our higher ability’s.

Okay. Show me God, please, and I'll take the rest of your argument from there. I'll wait.

Jesus had his powers, and aliens like to play god / the creator or scientist. I think most people always assumed that God was the father but that goes against every grain of the idea of a creator. It would in essence be mixing races, but also admitting he could have made us better to begin with. We assumed he was the father because his intervention helped created Jesus. But stealing sperm from a normal human they abducted off our home planet (Heaven) and putting it in Mary does not make him the father. Once again he is a mad scientist. Aliens like to play the creator. Artificial insemination does not make you the creator. Jesus’s biological father had unaltered genes, and thus allowed Mary to have a NORMAL human. This is why people have never figured any of this out. Jesus was not special, he was normal. We are the oddballs. So if you ever want to know what type of powers we are missing, just think about how Jesus was, and there you have it. Of course God made sure to retrieve the body of Jesus knowing that leaving his DNA here could set us all free one day.

Again, since your entire argument hinges on this God, or whatever it is, you need to present some evidence of this creature before you extrapolate from it.

There is of course no question in my mind, we did not come from primates.

Of course not, because you don't actually know anything about the subject at hand. Unfortunately, we are indeed primates. We're decended from primates and our own descendants will also be primates.

It could be confusing because all life (that we know of anyhow) seems to be constructed from the same limited selection of proteins. In addition to this, there seems to be patterns of things about creation in general. Of course complex arrangements of those are what make all life very different from each other. To make things more complicated, human DNA panels are almost identical to primates. Evo followers hang on this as though it’s some type of support to our existence.

In other words, who are we going to believe; our own eyes, or some crank on hte internet telling us that they're ling?

Here's the thing; give me a microscope and a fruit fly, and I'll show you a chromosome. What will it take for you to show me your god?

I look at it like it should be close as we are similar in many ways. That doesn’t mean that we are related. These different views only stem from one thing. The idea or belief of the possibility of other life in the cosmos. You see if there are hundreds of thousands of other humanoid life out there, you might more easily accept and understand how humans are most likely not related to primates, especially when there is other life that we would have a lot more in common with. Adding more complexity is the sections that are allowed to change from parent offsprings, might have been mistaken for sections that aren’t suppose to change.

Of course, your argument is, once again, hinging on an unproven hypothetical - that there are hundreds of thousands of other humanoids out in the universe. We don't know if there are or not; you've certainly failed to present any quantifiable evidence.

But let's run with it. If the universe really is like Star Trek, populated with a metric furk-ton of "people with funny ears" then I'll bet you, dollars to donuts, their worlds are inhabited by creatures very similar to our primates, and their genetic codes will be very similar to those creatures (and probably completely alien to our own, actually)

Of course, what if we do discover spacefaring people and they turn out to be radially symmetrical hermaprodites who navigate by tasting via jelly-like extrusions? What a conceit, that all intelligent life i nthe universe must be "humanoid"

Nevertheless, we have absolutely no evidence of such extraterrestrial creatures. What we do have evidence of is terrestrial primates. we also have evidence that physiologically and genetically we are VERY closely related to these other earth creatures. And they (and we as well) are very close to rodents and lagomorphs, who... Well, I'll spare you the cladistics, but suffice it to say that humans are known Laurasiatheres.

On the other hand if you don’t believe in other life, it’s easy to accept evolution as the only possibility, since it’s all your willing to see.

Of course, even if your blind hypothesis is true, it doesn't make evolution false. If humans were "designed" then where did the designers come from? Have we just sat here, unchanged, for however long? Obviously not, for that question. Did these designers also craft everything from Hallucigenia to Pan troglodytes to Brassica oleracea and Vandellia cirrhosa? If not, where did they come from? Why are there dugongs and manatees? And what was the point of a Steller's sea cow when you already had not one but two perfectly good Sirenideans? And why do all three look like aquatic elephants?

The theory’s I have observed in evolution are nothing short of idiotic. It’s as though they are reaching into the depths of nothing to try to make sense of things, and I’m not saying that to be hateful, it just obvious.

Or, alternately, it could just be that you don't actually understand anything about evolution at all, and favor the notion that you were "specially created" by magical invisible aliens because it makes you feel unique and soothes your ego?

Zo, tell me uff yoor muzzer...

I could say the same thing about the belief in aliens but there are some shocking differences. From 4 million contact reports, according to wikipedia, over 1/2 are gray aliens. The story’s are almost always simular in many aspects. It’s shocking how there can be so many reports, yet we actually know very little about them.

Yes. For the same reason 90% of depictions of Jesus show him as a six-foot white guy with blue eyes and hippy-hair. Not because he actually looked that way, but simply because the culture says "this is what Jesus looks like."

Four million contact reports sounds really impressive! Of course, that comes out to 0.057% of the world population. There are more people in the world who think slurping water out of the Ganges will cure AIDS than who have reported contact with aliens (go look at some pictures of the Ganges, tell me what you think of that belief system, eh?)

And that we know so little of them has a pretty simple explanation; it's make-believe. We know very little about the ecology and culture of leprechauns and gaki, as well.

Something is VERY WRONG.

Your hypothesis, for one.

Even F.E.M.A. believes in aliens. Chapter 13 of there rescue manual explains in detail that approaching an alien or crash site could cause specific things to happen. From your lights on the car going out, to the cars engine just dying and losing all electricity. They could lose contact with the dispatcher for an unpredicted amount of time.

Yep. It's one of those "just in case" things. It hinges on "popular accounts" - that is, FEMA is basically writing a "just in case" section based primarily on the vapid woo-woo of people who think aliens are very interested in having sex with them.

I think evolutionists think I enjoy the idea of alien life.

Most people do, actually. It's pretty neat. And to be honest? Discovering alien life is almost an evolutionary biologist's wet dream. (Almost because, hey, barnacles)

Honestly, do you think anyone in there right mind would want to expose themselves to these types of possibility’s?

Considering the sort of stuff people do to themselves in the course of day-to-day life, I don't see how kicking hte tires on a UFO would be much worse. i mean really, have you ever had American "beer"? I'll take an alien ray-gun over PBR anytime, thanks.

Part of the reason why some find it so hard to understand or accept any of this is due to what God did to us, putting us in the dumb down factor. We were set back 192,000 years. It sucks.

Well, again, you have failed to present evidence of this "god" creature. Nor have you defined exactly what you mean by "set back" nor how you've arrived at this very specific number.

Every contact report we hear about, we are always the ones out of control.

Yep, it's part and parcel with the "Hey look at me!" nature of UFO encounters. Basically the witness is seeking attention, and they attempt to make their story "meaningful" by spewing some new-age claptrap about how bad humans are. it's like Fern Gully except the aliens aren't slutty fairies. (Well ,actually given that they don't really exist, and have a tendency towards nymphomania, maybe they ARE...)

Option B is that these aliens are dumb as all hell, since they ALWAYS abduct the woo-wooiest people who wanted to be abducted anyway, who universally have no actual voice or ability to change anything in their society, and they always do it clandestinely. Really, if these guys wanted to give us "an important message" how damn hard would it be to just hijack a satellite signal and be like "Guys? You're messing up your rock. Here's how you can stop doing that."

Missing 192,000 years of our lineage and some of our abilitys I’m sure has something to do with it.

Again with that number. Again with talk of "abilities." Where's your evidence, man?

They seem to always be in control, erase our memory, and always have that technological edge over us.

Ever notice that "their technology" keeps pace with the technology of America? And seems to closely mirror the technologies in Sci-Fi movies and TV shows? Coincidence?

Powers of the mind have won them that edge.

What powers? Who? EVIDENCE, muther futher, do you speak it?!?!

As mentioned in my first OP, our mitocondrial DNA shows we are 200,000 years old. That ALONE should tell you what is going on here.

Indeed it does. It tells me that you very sincerely haven't got the first idea what the hell you are talking about. You're referring to the "Mitochondrial eve," a female human roughly two hundred thousand years ago, who is the many-squared-great-grandmother of the world's current crop of humans. She is our most recent common female ancestor. This is a different thing entirely from "first ever," much less "only."

I covered much thought in proving that we are not from earth, long before I found out that it actually tells us so, in black and white in the bible. The problem is that evo folks don’t usually believe in the bible either. So I guess to evolutionists it doesn’t matter that the bible, DNA and severe lack of evolution evidence all points in the same direction.

Except that DNA and the mounds of evidence that you keep conveniantly ignoraing point in a totally different direction from "God did it."

Evo peeps would believe that we made a choice to evolve into what we are today from primates.

lolwhut?

I'm afraid that this is such a gross mischaracterization of fact that it's best classified as "blatant lie." There is no "choice," some human antecedent did not go "Horf dorf, I'mma be human someday!" This is the sort of nonsense that people like you believe the scientifically educated believe because again you do not have, nor do you actually want to understand the actual science, preferring instead to lie and mischaracterize.

The problem is we are missing the mass amounts of proof that should be here from our lineage. How is it that we can find dinosaur bones but not human evolution bones? There are claims of a very few found, but those are in deep question and we certainly didn’t start out from one or two. Keep in mind, if you think we evolved, then you are saying we did all of it here on earth, why is there no proof?

Because some people are very, very dim, and don't know how to use the google?

Really man? We've got thousands of specimens of just Homo erectus, covering a span of over a million years, from multiple regions of the globe, showing several stages and varieties of adaptation. We have many such specimens for dozens of human species. And thanks to the zany human habit of preserving the dead, we have absolutely no shortage whatsoever of H. sapiens. we've also got scads of specimens that don't "fit cleanly" - you might call them "missing links" if such unscientific nomenclature is what you enjoy. "Transitional species" is another good one. "Grandpa" works in a pinch.

We know far less about dinosaurs than we do about our own lineage (hell, we apparently just discovered the notion that some dinosaur "species" are in fact juveniles of other species). Even so, we DO know an awful lot about dinosaurs; all that's left to learn about humans are the fine details, really.

At least with the alien direction, there is a simple answer why there is little to no known accepted proof. They don’t live here, they are advanced, and even when we do get proof, scientists call it an unknown.

Uncited proof dismissed by unnamed scientists, from an unknown race that left no proof anyway. ooookay!

This doesn’t mean you should just accept and believe everything you hear about aliens, but when 4 million people attest to there existence, don’t you think it just might be possible?

Roughly a hundred and fifty million Americans ascribe to the political beliefs that say "cutting taxes reduces the deficit." Over a billion people worldwide believe that eating beef will make them suffer in their next reincarnation. So no, the testimony of four million people - not one of them with anything tangible - doesn't sway me very much.

Of course alien life might be possible. However, we currently have absolutely no evidence of it, and certainly no evidence that these aliens fiddled with life on Earth. And it's the evidence that counts.

Not to mention that some of these people reporting this don’t even believe in aliens. I moved way past this part of acceptance when I thought about one simple thing, over 5 million species exist on earth alone.

Five million? Man, that's a hell of a lowball estimate! And doesn't even take into account three and a half billion years' worth of extinct species. You think magical invisible aliens had a finger in each of them?

Isn’t it ignorant to think we are the ONLY intelligent life ever created?

Nope. See, ignorance is a state that depends on the existence of information. One can only be ignorant of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, if there is information of such life to be had. currently there is none. Now it could be that the entire population of earth is just ignorant of such information, which I guess would technically be true. But disbelieving in something due to a total lack of supporting evidence is not ignorance, it's critical thought.

It’s hard to accept the idea that whoever or whatever created us decided to cram all of life’s creations on one small, and limited planet, and not anywhere else out in the cosmos. Pretend for the moment that you had this great gift of creation. Would you stop at one planet? No you wouldn’t. If there is a creator of life out there, I know what he is doing right now. He’s making more, because thats what he does. A strong desire to understand our existence through evolution has led us astray, and I totally understand, we all want to know what happened that brought us here. When I’m unable to un flag things that don’t make sense, I cant accept the theory.

Of course, it's just as hard to accept that we're not some lonely floating rock encrusted with gibbering protein-masses. We currently don't know either way. Could we be alone? Sure. Could the universe be densely populated? Sure. We don't know. Until we know one way or another, the question is ultimately irrelevant. We work with what we have, which is proving to be more than sufficient for perfectly good and sensible answers.

Which is, of course, why you completely ignore all the evidence we have on Earth that life on earth started on Earth and developed as a response to Earthly conditions.

Evolution is full of flags, not just one, but a plethora of flags. The sad part is there is simply no excuse for us not having any proof that any of the theory’s apply. If you still feel we originated from earth. Here are some examples to think about.

Actually (Again) there's tons of evidence for evolution. That you choose to completely ignore all of it as the basis of your argument doesn't actually mean it's not there. Covering your eyes doesn't make things vanish.

The problem I keep running into with examples of adaptation being accepted as evolution, is you have to first realize there was a reason why we did it to begin with! Again, because something was wrong to begin with. I would say we spend most of our lives, and time, just adapting. Thats all we do in order to survive here.

Of course, if you had the first clue about evolution, you'd know that individual efforts of adaptation are entirely irrelevant to evolution. That's lamarckism, and it's bunk. See, evolution is the result of natural selection on entire populations, not the individuals of those populations. Those organisms that reproduce the most are the ones whose inheritable traits survive the longest in the population; most often reproductive success mirrors compatibility with a given environment, but can also reflect sexually attractive traits (peacock tails, for instance.) Sometimes it can even be dumb luck. This lottery of traits spreading through a population and becoming dominant for whatever reasons are evolution.

Forced adaptation is NOT evolution. If anything, we de-evolved, and humans having less DNA than primates is a cold dose of reality on this subject.

There's no such thing as "de-evolution." It's like calling night "de-daying." Whatever evolution does is evolution.

Humans have two less DNA strands that appear to be fused. Fusing is a lab technique and not found naturally in the wild. Evolutionists would disagree but there is still no proof thats why it happened to us.

Actually it is found naturally in the wild; humans exhibit this. We're at the disadvantage of being the sole survivor of our Genus; It'd be interesting to collect samples from our cousins to see if anyone further back in line still has the full Pan chromosome arrangement.

Plus and minus chromosomes happen in other organisms, as well. Horses and donkeys have different numbers of chromosomes, yet are undoubtedly related.

Aside, our differences are staggering. If evolution were possible in our relation to them, it must take billions upon billions of years to connect us, and sorry to say but the earth isn’t that old.

Actually, if you were to get with a chimp lady, you could probably make some freakish hybrid with her (no one's tried, weirdly enough. I'd think it's a simple matter of inducing a sperm + ovum and seeing if meiosis succeeds. In vitro, of course!) Hell, the result would probably be fertile - you're closer to that chimp than a horse is to a donkey, genetically speaking.

If you're staggered by the differences, then I can only conclude that you're easily staggered. The differences between humans and daisies aren't even that staggering. The differences between humans and archaea? Now there's something worth being staggered about.

Either way you slice it, evolution is simply not possible in our existence.

Easy enough to say, when you clearly have no idea what theh ell you're talking about.

Lets look at the human smile. Most other life here on earth smile in a form of aggression. Dogs are a good example. It’s a small clue. Where did we pick up that smile in our alleged evolution? Not that primates can’t smile, they just don’t do it for the same reason. There are different types of smiles as well. There is the happy smile, the forced smile and the misleading smile. It would appear that not only did we want to make our lives harder and more difficult through redundant adaptation but we also wanted to disassociate ourselves with other life in the process?

Yes, there are different types of smiles. This is true outside of humans as well; chimpanzees will grin to show submission and placate an aggressor, as often as using it as a sign of aggression. It's a way of saying "I'm harmless, leave me alone." Which is probably where our own "happy" smile came from. "I'm friendly, don't be mean." of course as you note, that's not the only smile humans use. And the type of smile depends on much more than just a show of teeth; eyebrow position is actually a bigger consideration than teeth.

You also, again, make the assumption that evolution is a "choice".

Why is it so difficult for us to agree on how to eat properly? Meat, veggies, junk food, sea food,fast food. Again, it’s not our food is why. God wasn’t so concerned about our health when he dumped us here.

Same reason there are so many different ways of taking a crap and wiping. What, do you think everyone in the world has a commode and toilet tissue?

It's called "culture." Interestingly culture mirrors biological evolution in certain ways (As does linguistics). Memes are the method of transfer there.

It was just what he thought we needed to get by, so we could mine gold for him, to “serve” him.

Ah, there's the Sitchen. Funny that an interstellar being would go through all this trouble to create a species of ape to dig for gold on a gold-poor rock, and not only that, he would create a creature that is so bad at it. This creator alien must have been a moron with far too much time on his hands. Or pseudopods. Whatever he has.

He wasn’t so concerned about our health and life span, in the optimum sense. Let me tell you, if there is a creator that made us, he would be equally as smart to make a planet that would accommodate our specific needs.

But not smart enough to just make a planet out of gold for his own needs, apparently.

Earth is not our home. We will forever suffer here as we go about our redundant adaptive needs in this blind manner. Doctors have to treat us from birth and ongoing in life for regular things. Some of which is to avoid sickness and disease and sometimes death. Walk down the medication isles of stores, look at the large sections of medical genre listings in any phone book. (Just look at how we havent evolved) We are sick here people, and we have been blind as to why.

Do you think antelopes bitch and moan about how "unevolved" they are because of their vulnerability to anthrax and cheetahs? Maybe cheetahs bitch and moan about how their "creator" didn't make them strong enough to keep hyenas from snatching their kills? for that matter, given how inbred cheetahs are, i'll bet they spend most of their time being crosseyed and licking rocks.

One of the major conditions of life is that stuff can kill you. The world doesn't revolve around you any more than it revolves around the Salmonella bacterium that's giving you food poisoning. Salmonella's gotta live too, even though it sucks for you.

If you think evolution has caused us to become so sick, then you also agree we would be better off to go back to the way we were.

Not really; I assure you we were ill back then, too. Tigers ate the hell out of us back then, too. Evolution is essentially an arms race that nobody is actually winning; we evolve one way, our parasites and predators follow suit.

So speaking of parasites, did these alien overlords invent body lice, too? 'Cause there are types of lice that exist ONLY on humans, and ONLY in human body hair and clothing (As opposed to scalp hair, where there are other human-only lice species)

If you think our actions to adapt has caused all this sickness, then you have to ask yourself why we were adapting to begin with.

Easy; population. I already went into how to feed a growing and increasingly urban population, we're turning more and more to "processed" foods. Back in Ye Olden Days they had a similar concern; lots of people needed to be fed. The answer was intensive agriculture, including animal husbandry. This led to a lot of disease crossover between humans and their livestock. And since populations were already dense, these diseases proliferated among the human populations and became endemic and even themselves evolved to fit humans (Syphilis, for instance, used to kill people VERY quickly; too quickly for the disease to spread. Spirochetes that caused milder infections spread further and became dominant.)

Mother nature is not OUR mother. She doesn’t want us to be here and doesn’t want us to adapt either. More importantly she doesn’t want us to try to force her to adapt to our needs, which I’m finding in some rare cases as well.

There you go, mistaking wealthy comforts of western civilization with survival ability again.

Unfortunately It’s not like we have any other choice at this point. We are stuck here as castaway’s. Aside from water and air, there is actually nothing on this planet that is damming enough to say we fit here but we can’t even drink the water without processing it.

Well, not when you make a habit of dumping your own sewage into your water supply.

We don’t look or act like anything else on this planet.

Nor do walruses, aardwolves, ginkgo trees, emus, polyp corals, truffles, amoebas, shortleaf pine trees, solenodons, kangaroos, orangutans, strangler figs, lichens, giant tube worms, or staph bacteria. What's your point?

We are not part of any food chain, or at least nothing here is going to die from the lack of eating humans. Not to say that is how it should be.

Well, no, that just means there was never any species specially adapted to eating humans. There was no koala equal for the human's eucalyptus tree. There's a good reason for that, of course; a carnivore who specializes in eating only one other kind of animal is probably going to go hungry most of the time.

However, our lack of presence in the foodchain is primarily due to our ability to use weapons. Other animals DO happily eat us when presented with the chance. Big cats and large reptiles seem to be the champions of eating people. Hyenas also manage fairly regularly - in fact hyenas were apparently a major predator of humans in Eurasia, back in the Pleistocene. We have lots of fossilized hyena poop full of human hair and teeth. Sharks, bears, wild dogs, and occasionally a hippo will manage, too.Apparently leopard seals and orcas keep trying to eat us when we visit the antarctic as well (maybe we look like penguins to them?) Of course this is ignoring the large number of creatures that parasitize us; those human-specific lice, for instance. Mosquitoes don't seem to mind us all that much, either.

It’s a scary thought for sure. Evo peeps might say we traded dropping out of the food chain for all of the aforementioned. I just don’t buy it.

No we don't. We're still in the food chain. We're just well-equipped to fend off predation. Go wandering around Cambodia without a gun, see if a tiger doesn't decide to make a brunch of you. Surely the mosquitos will be happy to meet you.

Either way, we would all like to believe our species is above everything else on earth in every way, and there might be an unrealized reason for that.

Overweening ego combined with a startling amount of ignorance about reality. This post is exhibit A.

Here are some more examples of adaptation and the repercussions that don’t add up to evolution:

How you connected any of those at all to evolution baffles me, to be honest. I suppose I shouldn't be puzzled; we've already secured that you haven't got the faintest damned idea what you're talking about.

In fact you remind me of something...

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Even today, we are slaves in a sense. Not because of our needed adaptation, but because we have to work for crap wages to survive. In part this stems from the vast needs for us to survive here. Some of this stems from one person wanting to own another. The unrealized part is that it’s actually a lot of work and resources to make earth our home. It’s not fair that rich people own poor people to gain even more wealth. It’s even more unfair when we have so many natural things working against us, in terms of survival needs. Some might argue and say that observing other life here on earth, they also see a lot of survival. The difference is they are in their natural habitat, we aren’t, so it’s way more difficult for us. Did you ever wonder who taught us slavery? God did.

Once again, prove god.

We are empty minds when we are born.

Evidently some portions of the populace never actually overcome that.

Almost everything we know we either learned for ourselves or someone taught us. Where did we first learn slavery? We are so above it, well at least now we are.

Nah, slavery is still alive and well all around the world. Amero-centrism, "the civil war ended slavery" - hell, even in this country, slavery didn't actually end until the late 1960's (and some would argue that it just moved to a different demographic)

Where it came from is pretty simple. We see it in animal societies as well; "I'm bigger than you, so you need to give me your food or I'll kick your ass and take it anyway." Hell, that's the formula we used when domesticating animals. Applying it to other people seems a pretty logical outgrowth of that.

God certainly wasn’t. I have a feeling that the way he set us back, in combination with mind control allowed him to prevail against our common sense. We now know slavery is just wrong. Dropping atomic bombs on city’s is wrong. Mass killing and destruction is wrong. Punishing people for making choice decisions (which he allegedly created us to do) is wrong. Abducting, transplanting, controlling, enslaving, erasing our memory, disabling some of our higher powers is wrong.

Actually they're only wrong when someone else is doing it, apparently. When "we" do it (whoever "we" is) then it's always "regrettable but necessary." Don't need an invisible magical alien to explain hypocrisy and selfishness, you know.

The result of us living on a planet not made for us is nothing short of cruelty.

By your criteria, nothing living on this planet "belongs here." See, I'm sure your parents told you thins, and apparently it's only just now starting to sink in, but... life is hard. You can't imagine living without an air conditioner? Just imagine the life of a reptile; you're solar-powered. or hey, try being a hyena, and giving birth through your clitoris. Think that's harsh for reproduction? imagine being a fig. Not only do you need another fig nearby, but you also need millions of tiny, tiny wasps of a species that ONLY works for whatever kind of fig you are, to pollinate your flowers... which are then eaten by absolutely everything.

Life's tough. You have it pretty good compared to the poor mother hyena, squeezing her fanged, clawed demon offspring the size of a large pot roast through a birth canal that has a hard right turn and terminates in an opening the diameter of your thumb. In the dirt. With fleas.

reply to post by twitchy

Yea, I don't like when people are too lazy to read the entire thing. Do I agree with the stuff in here? No. But I base this off the ENTIRE THREAD, which I took the time to read. So even if you dont agree with it, you should at least respect it enough to read it.

reply to post by itsthetooth


really though...

we are god. everything within itself exist as a perfect whole. god is not fragmented into being as us or our observer. everything around in its own simplistic self is an "everything and the all". everything you typed is nonsense when you truly understand this.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


YOU ARE GOD! Jk, I was gonna do that, but I thought, I could use this 2 hours to eat. And sleep. And do soemthing useful, like bang my head against a wall.

I'd post a point-by-point refutation of this like I did in your last thread, but you're just regurgitating your claims from before and Fox beat me to it already. Oh, and if you're using opposable digits as a gauge of genetic tampering by malevolent aliens, you better be able to explain why great apes, lesser apes (aka gibbons), Old World monkeys, several marsupial, and at least one genus of frog has them as well. Not to mention that Homo habilis, the forerunner to H. sapiens, had them.

Originally posted by chancemusky
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

How does my reply not make sense?Life isntperfect,and never will be.
What if we were meant to live 300 years? We'd live 300 years then. What if Im meant to grow wings and fly away? Thats a completely useless question, thought most of your op is well,ridiculous to say the least. Im not trying to be rude, but this is just, beyond ignorant

Not if your not living on your intended planet, and not eating your intended food. It would appear you probably didn't understand some things in my post. Sorry, I'm a horrible writer.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by deanGI5
I'm sure you probably have some valid points in there somewhere... but good luck getting everyone to read a post that is half a mile long.

And herein lies one of the biggest problems with ATS lately, to paraphrase the above, "I'm going to post a derogatory comment in response to your hard work, even though I have no idea what your talking nor the inclination to find out." I don't put alot of effort into posting threads on ATS lately, it just isn't what it used to be.

Great thread OP, somebody reads them.

I must refer you to my first OP. Sorry its also the first thing I stated in this one.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Oh wow. Defense by wall o' text. Okay, where to start.

Originally posted by itsthetooth
First of all I think it’s important to make clear that I’m not trying to start my own religion, and I’m not a messiah. Most of the concerning feedback I have received seems to be coming from the believers in the evolution theory, and disagreements about the DNA. If it wasn’t clear in my original OP (which I recommend you read first if you haven’t already)(also beware I might repeat some things here). There are obvious reasons why people would seek out the path of evolution for answers to our existence. People will always struggle looking for answers until they open their eyes, mind, and look for some common sense clues. I left out a lot of explanation that would have covered this area, because I assumed that most already knew about all of this.

Your validity pretty much shoots out the window when you denigrate science with the exultation of "Open your eyes, man!" - yeah, uh, that's actually what science is. Conclusion drawn from observed facts. Ypu start talking about common sense, but from reading your post, I get the notion that your definition of "common snese" is "anything I say"

Many different videos I have watched are referencing the change of DNA in visual form. One blogger has even told me there is no way to tell when DNA has been tampered with, but turns around and says these changes have been witnessed in the wild. WTF! My eyes aren’t that good and any attempts of observation that I’m aware of must be done with equipment in a lab.

Really? Really? How about you apply some of that common sense?
1) collect specimen in the field
2) Bring specimen to the lab for diagnostics.

DNA defects and Mutations are being accepted by evolutionists as proof that we evolved from primates.

Actually no, that proof is in physiology, genetics, and paleontology. Mutations simply provide a possible explanation for that development. You can't point at "mutations" and go "aha! We used to be fish!". Mutations happen anyway, and they are simply supporting evidence for the bigger picture.

For some reason I always thought mutations were accidents, and unwanted, but do occur. Either way, there is no proof that there is not some type of intervention or something explainable to cause it to happen. The question is weather or not its natural.

"There is no proof that there is not..."
See, there' your big mistake. Logic does not work this way; it is impossible to prove a negative. It is only possible to compare positive proofs and deduct the most plausible. You don't have any proof that I am not actually your father, should you therefore start addressing me as "dad"? Of course not.

Of course it’s not, otherwise standard elements of offspring would be expected to change all the time. Rather than two feet, some people might have 3,4,5, or 6 or more feet as an example.

Another fallacy. You're basing your position here on the notion that mutation is random. It's not. It's unpredictable, which is a wholly different thing.

Say you have a bag of yellow, green, red, and white jellybeans. Every time you grab a handful, the resulting mix of colors in your hand will be unpredictable, but you know you will never come up with a purple or blue jellybeans; This is representative of your "normal" organism, which is a sort of grab-bag from regular, predictable genes.

Every now and again though, you might come up with a pair of jellybeans that are fused together, or one where the dye didn't get all the way through the candy, or is slightly bigger or smaller than the average jellybean. You've still got jellybeans, and they're still in the neighborhood of hte four colors we started out with, but are slightly different; variations on a theme. That's mutation.

Your claim would be as if you had a bag of jellybeans that occasionally produced hedgehogs and elemental mercury when you grabbed a handful; that would be random.

Someone replied to me on here indicating that on a rare occasion, methylation occurs naturally in the wild. Another words, a rare virus and rare circumstance has altered specific gene segments, and is somehow able to to recreate the complex steps necessary to alter DNA. I don’t believe it, but even if it was true, there is still that lack of proof that it happened to us, in an evolution manner.

Actually it happens fairly often. whenever a virus infects a cell, it injects its own DNA that then attatches to DNA in that cell, which then starts replicating viruses. Sometimes, that cell will survive infection, and when it divides, the virus DNA goes with it. Generally this isn't passed into further generations unless the gametes of an organism are infected. However in organisms that reproduce asexually, those virus DNA DO get passed on.

Whether it has impacted our evolution or not is a good question. However, it does seem to be a major impact on Bacterial evolution, along with gene-swapping between bacteria themselves.

I have seven things that tell me there was alien intervention that caused our altered sections of DNA. Evolutionists have nothing more than the idea that we could have evolved, but seem to be missing all of the pieces of this theory. There are theory’s followed with theory’s followed with theory’s and not one shred of hard core evidence for any of them.

Again with the ignorance. A scientific theory is not a "hunch." It's a predicted outcome that's been supported time and time again by piles - mountains really - of evidence. it's been tested, retested, examined, poked, prodded, and for all i know, deep-fat-fried, and found to be solid and factual no matter the rigors it's put through. It might as well be called the law of evolution; really the only thing that prevents it from being so is that a scientific law must be a universal constant; since we only know of life on earth, it's possible that life has developed in some other odd way elsewhere. every scientific theory - from evolution to plate tectonics to cells, atoms, and circuits, is supported by a huge body of evidence - else it wouldn't be a theory.

I don’t see that with my findings. I feel comfortable that most if not all of it is pretty solid. Evolutionists can call the bible a fairy tale, they can call Pye a fraud, call Von Daniken a fraud, call Sitchen a fraud, assume there is no other life in the cosmos, call my 3 decades of study of the paranormal a waste of time, and assume the DNA findings are inconclusive or not proof. I think there are too many things in my favor here.

The Bible is more of a cultural epic than a fairy tale; Fairy tales are simple fables with a singular lesson. The Bible's up there with the Kalevala, the Upanishads, the Iliad, and the Epic of Gilgamesh.

Pye is indeed a fraud. Every time he gets a "human" answer about his skulls, he dismisses it as a great conspiracy against himself, and then tries to get someone else to answer. Basically he's got a conclusion and no evidence.

Von Daniken is just sadly ignorant. He's of the "brown people can't stack rocks" school of thought on archaeology. This is the notion that while the Romans and Franks needed absolutely no intervention whatsoever in building their massive architectural wonders, the people of Rapa Nui had to have aliens come show them how to move their moai (even though the islanders demonstrated how to do it to later explorers). it's a steep cultural bias that, until recently, saturated western Archaeology. Basically all of these "ancient mysteries" are only mysteries if you come to the field with the presupposition that people outside classical-modern western Europe are absolute morons.

Sitchen isn't just a fraud; he's a malignant liar and a cultural butcher. He not only has no idea what he's talking about in ANY of the many fields he tries to cover (as varied as history, linguistics, evolutionary biology, theology, and astrophysics) but worse than that he actively makes crap up just to make a good story to sell to folks like you. Good for his pocketbook, I guess - I'd exploit a market niche if I found it, too - but is just horribly dumb when it comes to anything other than entertainment value.

Your three decades weren't wasted so long as you enjoyed them, I guess. Your results are ridiculous, but hey, it's the journey that matters.

We have no proof of stages of evolution much less proof or reason why it ever happened. What we do however have, is mass amounts of redundant aptation which is the opposite of evolving, but could be mistaken as such by desperate evolution seekers.

Lots of proof, actually. As for the reason... Well, what makes you think there has to be a reason? This is a creationist problem, the assumption that everything has meaning or purpose, some grand plan in the sky.It doesn't. Evolution is simply a consequence of reproduction in an inconstant environment (namely, Earth)

Also you seem to be stuck on the notion that there is a "goal" to evolution, that it's a system of progress. it's not. It's simply the collection of changes within given organism populations. Some may be an improvement in one regard, a disadvantage in another, and neutral in all others. And if the conditions change, then all that may jumble into some other arrangement of advantage / disadvantage.

I get the notion that you don't actually understand the concepts you're trying to argue against.

And here we go; let's see how well you understand evolution, but reality itself!

I didn’t think it would be necessary to cover examples of just how bad off we are in our adaptation, but I guess I have to. Evolutionists seem to feel we have evolved in leaps and bounds. Lets look at that for a tad. I could almost pick anything to start with but lets look at shoes. We made shoes because our feet would be subject to severe damage otherwise. Mother nature kicked back by giving us fungus, calluses, blisters, arch problems, bunions, and many other problems. If this was evolution, it sucks.

Yep. Our feet are fragile. Especially if, like most people posting on this board, you travel in layers of socks and shoes all the time. However there are lots and lots and lots of people the world over who go barefoot. Do they suffer damage to their feet? Sure. So does every other organism with feet. Ever seen what can happen to a hoof? And shoes are no real safeguard from harm; ever gotten athlete's foot? Stepped on a nail? chafed? Blistered?

Here is one of my favorites, living indoors. We basically had to recreate all of the necessities because it’s not easily available like it should be to support us. This adaptation includes but is not limited to: Heat, AC, Carpet or hard flooring, Plumbed water services, ventilation, Stove, fridge, Washer dryer to wash adaptive clothing, Dishes and utensils to eat with. If we had actually evolved we would not have needed any of these things. It’s plain and simple, we didn’t evolve, we have adapted, and if you look at almost anything you deal with in everyday life, you will most likely see adaptation. When we adapt, it’s because we failed to evolve.

Ah, once again we encountered the narrow perceptions of a spoiled and pampered westerner. Yes, all those things are great for our comfort and well-being... but we don't actually need them. It's perfectly possible for humans to live without any of hat you just outlined. Granted, having no more protection than the hair on your butt would make living in, say, Alaska rather difficult, but that just goes to show that we, as a species, are not really well-adapted to arctic and subarctic conditions.

We do really well in subtropical forest, though.

Another example I can give is our food options. There are very limited circumstances where you might be able to get by for a short time, living in the wild without adaptation. At best it’s not healthy for us. Just in our food options, we have desperately resorted to processed food, as yet another type of adaptation. It’s another clue that something is not here, that we need in our diet. Our adaptation history has not only blinded us to whats going on, but it’s making us sick. Of course this again is NOT evolution, it’s adaptation. Evolving would have been us getting use to whats available, and whats not, and just accepting things the way they are rather than trying to make new foods, and process them. Evolutionists might say thats our decision and not a need so it’s our fault. But why did we do it to begin with? It’s because we feel that something is missing from our intended diet. Our need for adaptation is so strong that we even breed animals for meat otherwise we would get sick and die. I don’t know how much more obvious this mess can be, we aren’t from here. We even cut and maintain our lawn and gardens to fit our needs and prevent problems associated with our needs. It’s an example of us trying to make other things adapt to our needs. Again, it’s not a good idea of evolution.

Actually the wilderness is absolutely chock full of food sources that are perfectly nutritious, even tasty to eat. If you're informed. It would appear that outdoor survival is another subject with which you are unfamiliar. I'll bet you've never chowed down on grasshopper. Snake eggs? Can you identify mushrooms? Do you know the differences between a root, a tuber, and a bulb? What's the difference between wild parsnip and water hemlock?

We've "resorted to" processed food due primarily to civilizational concerns; most people in our neck of the world don't have the time, knowledge, or territory to engage in subsistence or practical farming. This has nothing whatsoever to do with evolution or adaptations, it's simply a matter of feeding a large number of people who cannot feed themselves.

It wasn’t until I realized how the paranormal, was actually a major part of the bible.

The fact that it hinges around a magic fire-breathing ghost didn't tip you off to start with?

Eric Von Danakin’s “Chariots of the Gods” claims that the city burned in Sodom and Gamora was by an atomic bomb, and that the Ark of the covenant was a radio device.

1) Atomic bombs leave evidence. Lots of evidence. For one, they're, you know, radioactive. Two, they leave telltale geologic formations. None of these exist in the region.
2) He could claim it's a sex toy for wild yaks if he likes; since we do not have any evidence of the thing whatsoever, it could be anything anyone says it is.

One of my close friends that is also into the paranormal tells me there are even walkie talkies in the bible called “gems.”

Don't suppose he could cite scripture for this?

It’s not shocking, the bible is actually full of advanced technology and this is a major reason why people have had such a hard time understanding and accepting it. Trying to spot the technology, and understanding it compounds the frustration for sure if your not open to it. Whats even harder to grasp is that this wasn’t all because god and other alien life helping him were so much more advanced than us, but because God had altered us, and made us dumb and powerless in order to keep us as faithful slaves. So much so, he had to issue us the ten commandments. Our race is probably as old and as intelligent as his is. Keep in mind he set us back about 192,000 years by erasing our memory’s, and removing some of our higher ability’s.

Okay. Show me God, please, and I'll take the rest of your argument from there. I'll wait.

Jesus had his powers, and aliens like to play god / the creator or scientist. I think most people always assumed that God was the father but that goes against every grain of the idea of a creator. It would in essence be mixing races, but also admitting he could have made us better to begin with. We assumed he was the father because his intervention helped created Jesus. But stealing sperm from a normal human they abducted off our home planet (Heaven) and putting it in Mary does not make him the father. Once again he is a mad scientist. Aliens like to play the creator. Artificial insemination does not make you the creator. Jesus’s biological father had unaltered genes, and thus allowed Mary to have a NORMAL human. This is why people have never figured any of this out. Jesus was not special, he was normal. We are the oddballs. So if you ever want to know what type of powers we are missing, just think about how Jesus was, and there you have it. Of course God made sure to retrieve the body of Jesus knowing that leaving his DNA here could set us all free one day.

Again, since your entire argument hinges on this God, or whatever it is, you need to present some evidence of this creature before you extrapolate from it.

There is of course no question in my mind, we did not come from primates.

Of course not, because you don't actually know anything about the subject at hand. Unfortunately, we are indeed primates. We're decended from primates and our own descendants will also be primates.

It could be confusing because all life (that we know of anyhow) seems to be constructed from the same limited selection of proteins. In addition to this, there seems to be patterns of things about creation in general. Of course complex arrangements of those are what make all life very different from each other. To make things more complicated, human DNA panels are almost identical to primates. Evo followers hang on this as though it’s some type of support to our existence.

In other words, who are we going to believe; our own eyes, or some crank on hte internet telling us that they're ling?

Here's the thing; give me a microscope and a fruit fly, and I'll show you a chromosome. What will it take for you to show me your god?

I look at it like it should be close as we are similar in many ways. That doesn’t mean that we are related. These different views only stem from one thing. The idea or belief of the possibility of other life in the cosmos. You see if there are hundreds of thousands of other humanoid life out there, you might more easily accept and understand how humans are most likely not related to primates, especially when there is other life that we would have a lot more in common with. Adding more complexity is the sections that are allowed to change from parent offsprings, might have been mistaken for sections that aren’t suppose to change.

Of course, your argument is, once again, hinging on an unproven hypothetical - that there are hundreds of thousands of other humanoids out in the universe. We don't know if there are or not; you've certainly failed to present any quantifiable evidence.

But let's run with it. If the universe really is like Star Trek, populated with a metric furk-ton of "people with funny ears" then I'll bet you, dollars to donuts, their worlds are inhabited by creatures very similar to our primates, and their genetic codes will be very similar to those creatures (and probably completely alien to our own, actually)

Of course, what if we do discover spacefaring people and they turn out to be radially symmetrical hermaprodites who navigate by tasting via jelly-like extrusions? What a conceit, that all intelligent life i nthe universe must be "humanoid"

Nevertheless, we have absolutely no evidence of such extraterrestrial creatures. What we do have evidence of is terrestrial primates. we also have evidence that physiologically and genetically we are VERY closely related to these other earth creatures. And they (and we as well) are very close to rodents and lagomorphs, who... Well, I'll spare you the cladistics, but suffice it to say that humans are known Laurasiatheres.

On the other hand if you don’t believe in other life, it’s easy to accept evolution as the only possibility, since it’s all your willing to see.

Of course, even if your blind hypothesis is true, it doesn't make evolution false. If humans were "designed" then where did the designers come from? Have we just sat here, unchanged, for however long? Obviously not, for that question. Did these designers also craft everything from Hallucigenia to Pan troglodytes to Brassica oleracea and Vandellia cirrhosa? If not, where did they come from? Why are there dugongs and manatees? And what was the point of a Steller's sea cow when you already had not one but two perfectly good Sirenideans? And why do all three look like aquatic elephants?

The theory’s I have observed in evolution are nothing short of idiotic. It’s as though they are reaching into the depths of nothing to try to make sense of things, and I’m not saying that to be hateful, it just obvious.

Or, alternately, it could just be that you don't actually understand anything about evolution at all, and favor the notion that you were "specially created" by magical invisible aliens because it makes you feel unique and soothes your ego?

Zo, tell me uff yoor muzzer...

I could say the same thing about the belief in aliens but there are some shocking differences. From 4 million contact reports, according to wikipedia, over 1/2 are gray aliens. The story’s are almost always simular in many aspects. It’s shocking how there can be so many reports, yet we actually know very little about them.

Yes. For the same reason 90% of depictions of Jesus show him as a six-foot white guy with blue eyes and hippy-hair. Not because he actually looked that way, but simply because the culture says "this is what Jesus looks like."

Four million contact reports sounds really impressive! Of course, that comes out to 0.057% of the world population. There are more people in the world who think slurping water out of the Ganges will cure AIDS than who have reported contact with aliens (go look at some pictures of the Ganges, tell me what you think of that belief system, eh?)

And that we know so little of them has a pretty simple explanation; it's make-believe. We know very little about the ecology and culture of leprechauns and gaki, as well.

Something is VERY WRONG.

Your hypothesis, for one.

Even F.E.M.A. believes in aliens. Chapter 13 of there rescue manual explains in detail that approaching an alien or crash site could cause specific things to happen. From your lights on the car going out, to the cars engine just dying and losing all electricity. They could lose contact with the dispatcher for an unpredicted amount of time.

Yep. It's one of those "just in case" things. It hinges on "popular accounts" - that is, FEMA is basically writing a "just in case" section based primarily on the vapid woo-woo of people who think aliens are very interested in having sex with them.

I think evolutionists think I enjoy the idea of alien life.

Most people do, actually. It's pretty neat. And to be honest? Discovering alien life is almost an evolutionary biologist's wet dream. (Almost because, hey, barnacles)

Honestly, do you think anyone in there right mind would want to expose themselves to these types of possibility’s?

Considering the sort of stuff people do to themselves in the course of day-to-day life, I don't see how kicking hte tires on a UFO would be much worse. i mean really, have you ever had American "beer"? I'll take an alien ray-gun over PBR anytime, thanks.

Part of the reason why some find it so hard to understand or accept any of this is due to what God did to us, putting us in the dumb down factor. We were set back 192,000 years. It sucks.

Well, again, you have failed to present evidence of this "god" creature. Nor have you defined exactly what you mean by "set back" nor how you've arrived at this very specific number.

Every contact report we hear about, we are always the ones out of control.

Yep, it's part and parcel with the "Hey look at me!" nature of UFO encounters. Basically the witness is seeking attention, and they attempt to make their story "meaningful" by spewing some new-age claptrap about how bad humans are. it's like Fern Gully except the aliens aren't slutty fairies. (Well ,actually given that they don't really exist, and have a tendency towards nymphomania, maybe they ARE...)

Option B is that these aliens are dumb as all hell, since they ALWAYS abduct the woo-wooiest people who wanted to be abducted anyway, who universally have no actual voice or ability to change anything in their society, and they always do it clandestinely. Really, if these guys wanted to give us "an important message" how damn hard would it be to just hijack a satellite signal and be like "Guys? You're messing up your rock. Here's how you can stop doing that."

Missing 192,000 years of our lineage and some of our abilitys I’m sure has something to do with it.

Again with that number. Again with talk of "abilities." Where's your evidence, man?

They seem to always be in control, erase our memory, and always have that technological edge over us.

Ever notice that "their technology" keeps pace with the technology of America? And seems to closely mirror the technologies in Sci-Fi movies and TV shows? Coincidence?

Powers of the mind have won them that edge.

What powers? Who? EVIDENCE, muther futher, do you speak it?!?!

As mentioned in my first OP, our mitocondrial DNA shows we are 200,000 years old. That ALONE should tell you what is going on here.

Indeed it does. It tells me that you very sincerely haven't got the first idea what the hell you are talking about. You're referring to the "Mitochondrial eve," a female human roughly two hundred thousand years ago, who is the many-squared-great-grandmother of the world's current crop of humans. She is our most recent common female ancestor. This is a different thing entirely from "first ever," much less "only."

I covered much thought in proving that we are not from earth, long before I found out that it actually tells us so, in black and white in the bible. The problem is that evo folks don’t usually believe in the bible either. So I guess to evolutionists it doesn’t matter that the bible, DNA and severe lack of evolution evidence all points in the same direction.

Except that DNA and the mounds of evidence that you keep conveniantly ignoraing point in a totally different direction from "God did it."

Evo peeps would believe that we made a choice to evolve into what we are today from primates.

lolwhut?

I'm afraid that this is such a gross mischaracterization of fact that it's best classified as "blatant lie." There is no "choice," some human antecedent did not go "Horf dorf, I'mma be human someday!" This is the sort of nonsense that people like you believe the scientifically educated believe because again you do not have, nor do you actually want to understand the actual science, preferring instead to lie and mischaracterize.

The problem is we are missing the mass amounts of proof that should be here from our lineage. How is it that we can find dinosaur bones but not human evolution bones? There are claims of a very few found, but those are in deep question and we certainly didn’t start out from one or two. Keep in mind, if you think we evolved, then you are saying we did all of it here on earth, why is there no proof?

Because some people are very, very dim, and don't know how to use the google?

Really man? We've got thousands of specimens of just Homo erectus, covering a span of over a million years, from multiple regions of the globe, showing several stages and varieties of adaptation. We have many such specimens for dozens of human species. And thanks to the zany human habit of preserving the dead, we have absolutely no shortage whatsoever of H. sapiens. we've also got scads of specimens that don't "fit cleanly" - you might call them "missing links" if such unscientific nomenclature is what you enjoy. "Transitional species" is another good one. "Grandpa" works in a pinch.

We know far less about dinosaurs than we do about our own lineage (hell, we apparently just discovered the notion that some dinosaur "species" are in fact juveniles of other species). Even so, we DO know an awful lot about dinosaurs; all that's left to learn about humans are the fine details, really.

At least with the alien direction, there is a simple answer why there is little to no known accepted proof. They don’t live here, they are advanced, and even when we do get proof, scientists call it an unknown.

Uncited proof dismissed by unnamed scientists, from an unknown race that left no proof anyway. ooookay!

This doesn’t mean you should just accept and believe everything you hear about aliens, but when 4 million people attest to there existence, don’t you think it just might be possible?

Roughly a hundred and fifty million Americans ascribe to the political beliefs that say "cutting taxes reduces the deficit." Over a billion people worldwide believe that eating beef will make them suffer in their next reincarnation. So no, the testimony of four million people - not one of them with anything tangible - doesn't sway me very much.

Of course alien life might be possible. However, we currently have absolutely no evidence of it, and certainly no evidence that these aliens fiddled with life on Earth. And it's the evidence that counts.

Not to mention that some of these people reporting this don’t even believe in aliens. I moved way past this part of acceptance when I thought about one simple thing, over 5 million species exist on earth alone.

Five million? Man, that's a hell of a lowball estimate! And doesn't even take into account three and a half billion years' worth of extinct species. You think magical invisible aliens had a finger in each of them?

Isn’t it ignorant to think we are the ONLY intelligent life ever created?

Nope. See, ignorance is a state that depends on the existence of information. One can only be ignorant of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, if there is information of such life to be had. currently there is none. Now it could be that the entire population of earth is just ignorant of such information, which I guess would technically be true. But disbelieving in something due to a total lack of supporting evidence is not ignorance, it's critical thought.

It’s hard to accept the idea that whoever or whatever created us decided to cram all of life’s creations on one small, and limited planet, and not anywhere else out in the cosmos. Pretend for the moment that you had this great gift of creation. Would you stop at one planet? No you wouldn’t. If there is a creator of life out there, I know what he is doing right now. He’s making more, because thats what he does. A strong desire to understand our existence through evolution has led us astray, and I totally understand, we all want to know what happened that brought us here. When I’m unable to un flag things that don’t make sense, I cant accept the theory.

Of course, it's just as hard to accept that we're not some lonely floating rock encrusted with gibbering protein-masses. We currently don't know either way. Could we be alone? Sure. Could the universe be densely populated? Sure. We don't know. Until we know one way or another, the question is ultimately irrelevant. We work with what we have, which is proving to be more than sufficient for perfectly good and sensible answers.

Which is, of course, why you completely ignore all the evidence we have on Earth that life on earth started on Earth and developed as a response to Earthly conditions.

Evolution is full of flags, not just one, but a plethora of flags. The sad part is there is simply no excuse for us not having any proof that any of the theory’s apply. If you still feel we originated from earth. Here are some examples to think about.

Actually (Again) there's tons of evidence for evolution. That you choose to completely ignore all of it as the basis of your argument doesn't actually mean it's not there. Covering your eyes doesn't make things vanish.

The problem I keep running into with examples of adaptation being accepted as evolution, is you have to first realize there was a reason why we did it to begin with! Again, because something was wrong to begin with. I would say we spend most of our lives, and time, just adapting. Thats all we do in order to survive here.

Of course, if you had the first clue about evolution, you'd know that individual efforts of adaptation are entirely irrelevant to evolution. That's lamarckism, and it's bunk. See, evolution is the result of natural selection on entire populations, not the individuals of those populations. Those organisms that reproduce the most are the ones whose inheritable traits survive the longest in the population; most often reproductive success mirrors compatibility with a given environment, but can also reflect sexually attractive traits (peacock tails, for instance.) Sometimes it can even be dumb luck. This lottery of traits spreading through a population and becoming dominant for whatever reasons are evolution.

Forced adaptation is NOT evolution. If anything, we de-evolved, and humans having less DNA than primates is a cold dose of reality on this subject.

There's no such thing as "de-evolution." It's like calling night "de-daying." Whatever evolution does is evolution.

Humans have two less DNA strands that appear to be fused. Fusing is a lab technique and not found naturally in the wild. Evolutionists would disagree but there is still no proof thats why it happened to us.

Actually it is found naturally in the wild; humans exhibit this. We're at the disadvantage of being the sole survivor of our Genus; It'd be interesting to collect samples from our cousins to see if anyone further back in line still has the full Pan chromosome arrangement.

Plus and minus chromosomes happen in other organisms, as well. Horses and donkeys have different numbers of chromosomes, yet are undoubtedly related.

Aside, our differences are staggering. If evolution were possible in our relation to them, it must take billions upon billions of years to connect us, and sorry to say but the earth isn’t that old.

Actually, if you were to get with a chimp lady, you could probably make some freakish hybrid with her (no one's tried, weirdly enough. I'd think it's a simple matter of inducing a sperm + ovum and seeing if meiosis succeeds. In vitro, of course!) Hell, the result would probably be fertile - you're closer to that chimp than a horse is to a donkey, genetically speaking.

If you're staggered by the differences, then I can only conclude that you're easily staggered. The differences between humans and daisies aren't even that staggering. The differences between humans and archaea? Now there's something worth being staggered about.

Either way you slice it, evolution is simply not possible in our existence.

Easy enough to say, when you clearly have no idea what theh ell you're talking about.

Lets look at the human smile. Most other life here on earth smile in a form of aggression. Dogs are a good example. It’s a small clue. Where did we pick up that smile in our alleged evolution? Not that primates can’t smile, they just don’t do it for the same reason. There are different types of smiles as well. There is the happy smile, the forced smile and the misleading smile. It would appear that not only did we want to make our lives harder and more difficult through redundant adaptation but we also wanted to disassociate ourselves with other life in the process?

Yes, there are different types of smiles. This is true outside of humans as well; chimpanzees will grin to show submission and placate an aggressor, as often as using it as a sign of aggression. It's a way of saying "I'm harmless, leave me alone." Which is probably where our own "happy" smile came from. "I'm friendly, don't be mean." of course as you note, that's not the only smile humans use. And the type of smile depends on much more than just a show of teeth; eyebrow position is actually a bigger consideration than teeth.

You also, again, make the assumption that evolution is a "choice".

Why is it so difficult for us to agree on how to eat properly? Meat, veggies, junk food, sea food,fast food. Again, it’s not our food is why. God wasn’t so concerned about our health when he dumped us here.

Same reason there are so many different ways of taking a crap and wiping. What, do you think everyone in the world has a commode and toilet tissue?

It's called "culture." Interestingly culture mirrors biological evolution in certain ways (As does linguistics). Memes are the method of transfer there.

It was just what he thought we needed to get by, so we could mine gold for him, to “serve” him.

Ah, there's the Sitchen. Funny that an interstellar being would go through all this trouble to create a species of ape to dig for gold on a gold-poor rock, and not only that, he would create a creature that is so bad at it. This creator alien must have been a moron with far too much time on his hands. Or pseudopods. Whatever he has.

He wasn’t so concerned about our health and life span, in the optimum sense. Let me tell you, if there is a creator that made us, he would be equally as smart to make a planet that would accommodate our specific needs.

But not smart enough to just make a planet out of gold for his own needs, apparently.

Earth is not our home. We will forever suffer here as we go about our redundant adaptive needs in this blind manner. Doctors have to treat us from birth and ongoing in life for regular things. Some of which is to avoid sickness and disease and sometimes death. Walk down the medication isles of stores, look at the large sections of medical genre listings in any phone book. (Just look at how we havent evolved) We are sick here people, and we have been blind as to why.

Do you think antelopes bitch and moan about how "unevolved" they are because of their vulnerability to anthrax and cheetahs? Maybe cheetahs bitch and moan about how their "creator" didn't make them strong enough to keep hyenas from snatching their kills? for that matter, given how inbred cheetahs are, i'll bet they spend most of their time being crosseyed and licking rocks.

One of the major conditions of life is that stuff can kill you. The world doesn't revolve around you any more than it revolves around the Salmonella bacterium that's giving you food poisoning. Salmonella's gotta live too, even though it sucks for you.

If you think evolution has caused us to become so sick, then you also agree we would be better off to go back to the way we were.

Not really; I assure you we were ill back then, too. Tigers ate the hell out of us back then, too. Evolution is essentially an arms race that nobody is actually winning; we evolve one way, our parasites and predators follow suit.

So speaking of parasites, did these alien overlords invent body lice, too? 'Cause there are types of lice that exist ONLY on humans, and ONLY in human body hair and clothing (As opposed to scalp hair, where there are other human-only lice species)

If you think our actions to adapt has caused all this sickness, then you have to ask yourself why we were adapting to begin with.

Easy; population. I already went into how to feed a growing and increasingly urban population, we're turning more and more to "processed" foods. Back in Ye Olden Days they had a similar concern; lots of people needed to be fed. The answer was intensive agriculture, including animal husbandry. This led to a lot of disease crossover between humans and their livestock. And since populations were already dense, these diseases proliferated among the human populations and became endemic and even themselves evolved to fit humans (Syphilis, for instance, used to kill people VERY quickly; too quickly for the disease to spread. Spirochetes that caused milder infections spread further and became dominant.)

Mother nature is not OUR mother. She doesn’t want us to be here and doesn’t want us to adapt either. More importantly she doesn’t want us to try to force her to adapt to our needs, which I’m finding in some rare cases as well.

There you go, mistaking wealthy comforts of western civilization with survival ability again.

Unfortunately It’s not like we have any other choice at this point. We are stuck here as castaway’s. Aside from water and air, there is actually nothing on this planet that is damming enough to say we fit here but we can’t even drink the water without processing it.

Well, not when you make a habit of dumping your own sewage into your water supply.

We don’t look or act like anything else on this planet.

Nor do walruses, aardwolves, ginkgo trees, emus, polyp corals, truffles, amoebas, shortleaf pine trees, solenodons, kangaroos, orangutans, strangler figs, lichens, giant tube worms, or staph bacteria. What's your point?

We are not part of any food chain, or at least nothing here is going to die from the lack of eating humans. Not to say that is how it should be.

Well, no, that just means there was never any species specially adapted to eating humans. There was no koala equal for the human's eucalyptus tree. There's a good reason for that, of course; a carnivore who specializes in eating only one other kind of animal is probably going to go hungry most of the time.

However, our lack of presence in the foodchain is primarily due to our ability to use weapons. Other animals DO happily eat us when presented with the chance. Big cats and large reptiles seem to be the champions of eating people. Hyenas also manage fairly regularly - in fact hyenas were apparently a major predator of humans in Eurasia, back in the Pleistocene. We have lots of fossilized hyena poop full of human hair and teeth. Sharks, bears, wild dogs, and occasionally a hippo will manage, too.Apparently leopard seals and orcas keep trying to eat us when we visit the antarctic as well (maybe we look like penguins to them?) Of course this is ignoring the large number of creatures that parasitize us; those human-specific lice, for instance. Mosquitoes don't seem to mind us all that much, either.

It’s a scary thought for sure. Evo peeps might say we traded dropping out of the food chain for all of the aforementioned. I just don’t buy it.

No we don't. We're still in the food chain. We're just well-equipped to fend off predation. Go wandering around Cambodia without a gun, see if a tiger doesn't decide to make a brunch of you. Surely the mosquitos will be happy to meet you.

Either way, we would all like to believe our species is above everything else on earth in every way, and there might be an unrealized reason for that.

Overweening ego combined with a startling amount of ignorance about reality. This post is exhibit A.

Here are some more examples of adaptation and the repercussions that don’t add up to evolution:

How you connected any of those at all to evolution baffles me, to be honest. I suppose I shouldn't be puzzled; we've already secured that you haven't got the faintest damned idea what you're talking about.

In fact you remind me of something...

...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an 8-foot-tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of 2-foot-tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests.

Even today, we are slaves in a sense. Not because of our needed adaptation, but because we have to work for crap wages to survive. In part this stems from the vast needs for us to survive here. Some of this stems from one person wanting to own another. The unrealized part is that it’s actually a lot of work and resources to make earth our home. It’s not fair that rich people own poor people to gain even more wealth. It’s even more unfair when we have so many natural things working against us, in terms of survival needs. Some might argue and say that observing other life here on earth, they also see a lot of survival. The difference is they are in their natural habitat, we aren’t, so it’s way more difficult for us. Did you ever wonder who taught us slavery? God did.

Once again, prove god.

We are empty minds when we are born.

Evidently some portions of the populace never actually overcome that.

Almost everything we know we either learned for ourselves or someone taught us. Where did we first learn slavery? We are so above it, well at least now we are.

Nah, slavery is still alive and well all around the world. Amero-centrism, "the civil war ended slavery" - hell, even in this country, slavery didn't actually end until the late 1960's (and some would argue that it just moved to a different demographic)

Where it came from is pretty simple. We see it in animal societies as well; "I'm bigger than you, so you need to give me your food or I'll kick your ass and take it anyway." Hell, that's the formula we used when domesticating animals. Applying it to other people seems a pretty logical outgrowth of that.

God certainly wasn’t. I have a feeling that the way he set us back, in combination with mind control allowed him to prevail against our common sense. We now know slavery is just wrong. Dropping atomic bombs on city’s is wrong. Mass killing and destruction is wrong. Punishing people for making choice decisions (which he allegedly created us to do) is wrong. Abducting, transplanting, controlling, enslaving, erasing our memory, disabling some of our higher powers is wrong.

Actually they're only wrong when someone else is doing it, apparently. When "we" do it (whoever "we" is) then it's always "regrettable but necessary." Don't need an invisible magical alien to explain hypocrisy and selfishness, you know.

The result of us living on a planet not made for us is nothing short of cruelty.

By your criteria, nothing living on this planet "belongs here." See, I'm sure your parents told you thins, and apparently it's only just now starting to sink in, but... life is hard. You can't imagine living without an air conditioner? Just imagine the life of a reptile; you're solar-powered. or hey, try being a hyena, and giving birth through your clitoris. Think that's harsh for reproduction? imagine being a fig. Not only do you need another fig nearby, but you also need millions of tiny, tiny wasps of a species that ONLY works for whatever kind of fig you are, to pollinate your flowers... which are then eaten by absolutely everything.

Life's tough. You have it pretty good compared to the poor mother hyena, squeezing her fanged, clawed demon offspring the size of a large pot roast through a birth canal that has a hard right turn and terminates in an opening the diameter of your thumb. In the dirt. With fleas.

edit on 24/6/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)

edit on 24/6/2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)

Of course the missed problem here is we are assuming that in the wild, they are not tampered with by anything we would consider not wild. Even so, there is no proof of it occuring to US. Thats all I need to say on it.