Alcohol - who really needs it?

Originally posted by juleol

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic

Originally posted by Buford2
I personally believe alcohol is the worst drug available or equal to Prescription drugs.

You're talking legal drugs, right? Because alcohol is nowhere near as bad as meth or heroine or drugs of that ilk.

There are plenty of illegal drugs that are much less harmful like for example cannabis.

Including coc aine and heroin.

These drugs obviously have a danger of addiction but in terms of direct physical damage to the body and brain there is only one drug comparable to alcohol.

Meth!

Most drugs are like poking a specific put of your brain with a needle.

Alcohol is like smashing your brain with a hammer.

Originally posted by JAGx1981
Sorry MOD's for using the illegal herb reference, I didn't know it was that strict of use of the term on here, now I know.

My conclusion though is this. You have prescription drugs you can take to get healthy then the side effects you read and see on TV make you have to take even more drugs to offset the side effects, not to mention most can kill you and get you addicted just like any type of hard illegal drug and even worse.

Then you have cigarettes which is a given to kill you in so many different ways I don't even want to begin an elaboration.

The you have your alcohol, moonshine and all other types that kill more people than anything else.

Then you have the natural herb, studied and studied by scientists and people all over and it is even getting tested more, and it equals to zero deaths. The only thing it hinders is our prison systems and the money taxpayers have to pay to house the large number of people in jail over a small amount of something thats less harmless than a energy drink.

It doesn't add up, something is going on, why are all the things that can kill you the quickest legal and yet the things that are natural from the earth with no health risk illegal?

HMMMM..? We all know something is fishy and there are many explanations, but I tell you this, one day, it may be 15 -30 years from now, people will find these types of threads and they will laugh at how dumb we really are in the US OF A.

Study it for yourself, you will find the herbal way is the way to go. Forget all the movies you see with lazy, stupid losers that walk around with eyes as red as the devils prick, it's not reality, the reality is the public is not informed enough of the truth of the miracle of nature, we talk about this country in the name of God, yet they contradict themsleves by making it illegal making their oath to God a shallow and fake intent.

One day we will wake but the longer we wait the more we suffer as taxpayers and the more we will suffer from deaths from alcohol and others substances. The herbal misinfo has troubled me for years, I have studied this in college with unbiased review cause I wanted to be sure, and it simple is the most harmless herb on earth, but not everyone will believe it cause of what the MSM tells you, if they told you the truth, the drug companies would lose billions.

I didn't use a specific name this time mods so I hope this is a sufficient response.

WAKE UP EVERYONE, ban the killers and legalize something that will actually help people, forget what you see in movies and propaganda to keep you thinking you are doing something that is bad for you.

This world is stupid, is a simple answer. Alcohol tops my lists and the most dangerous substance on Earth thans legal, with smoking tied.

It's just sad, it really is, but we will wake up one day, I have faith in that.

Thanks for writing out my thoughts! I 100% agree with you.

In addition:
The reason (IMO) that people are so defensive about alcohol is because MSM and our government is constantly saying it's ok, good even. I mean, it IS pretty sexy. I don't watch TV anymore, but I would venture to guess that alcohol commercials are taking up a chunk of airtime still.

Of course there are groups against drunk driving and such... but seriously- are there any super crazy anti-alcohol PSA's? In the form of the marijuana or meth commercials? (I am not supporting other drugs here.)

Seems mostly commercials are saying how much better you become, or sexier, or more appealing or funnier. Sounds like a miracle liquid! Sign me up!

So all people that say "I drink every day. I don't have any problems. Everyone does it.", may feel guilty, or sick or weaker because of this, but they can push that thought out of their mind cause "A glass of red wine is good for you" "OH! and the new Budweiser commercial is coming on. Shhh!!"

Of course there are people who can safely drink EVERY DAY. Just like there are people who have smoked tobacco since they were 14 and are 100 years old with no problems. Humans are amazing machines, but we are all a bit different.

It'd be great if all humans cared enough about themselves to really listen to their bodies, really pay attention.

Why do that when someone else will tell you it's ok? No need to be responsible for ourselves. That's what the government's for, right?

most of the posters seem to be talking about binge drinking. Binge drinking is a problem. The extreme consumption of any substance is a problem. But you guys do know that alcohol does not kill brain cells right? That's an old myth that's been debunked. Along with the myths that the blood of alcoholics would cause them to explode. The headache hangover effect is caused by dehydration, which can be a side effect unless a glass of water is also consumed. scientific studies on alcohol show that moderate drinkers have better cognitive memory skills than non-drinkers.

I would like to point this out. From the T&C:

16e.) Illicit Activity: Discussion of illicit activities, specifically the use of mind-altering drugs & substances, engaging in computer hacking, promoting criminal hate, discussing sexual relations with minors, and furtherance of financial schemes and scams are strictly forbidden. You will also not link to sites or online content that contains discussion or advocacy of such material. Any Post mentioning or advocating personal use of illicit mind-altering drugs will result in immediate account termination.

i) Narcotics and illicit mind-altering substances: Due to abuse of the subject matter by some (promoting various aspects of personal use, and discussing actual personal use), no new topics on this subject are allowed in any form.

Discuss the topic without the comparisons please folks.

reply to post by ExCommando


reply to post by ExCommando

I've found over the last year I barely drink my self. Considering not only the massive negative health effects, as a drug its not even worth it anymore. It's a downer that numbs you from not only you and your body, but also others as feeding ego goes. Only because its socially acceptable and I think when people really look how terrible booze is would you come to the conclusion there's better stuff out there and that alcohol just like cigarettes should be illicit and be discouraged.

I won't bore everyone with my details, but here's a tip that may help someone. Alcoholics don't fight the booze, they are fighting the craving. If the urge wasn't there, they would not take that first drink from the endless bottle. It's the craving.

So my great wife saw a segment a few years ago about a Doctor in France. This guy was a hard core alcoholic and his life was in ruins. He realized he wasn't strong enough to withstand the cravings, so he tried to find a drug to reduce or eliminate them. What he found was amazing.

Google "Baclofen + Alcoholism"

It may save your life, it made mine a lot better that's for sure.

P.S. Those of you who keep suing that your in your 20's and 30's and you drink all the time and you're doing fine, give it 10 years......

Depending on what you can handle, one or two drinks should be promoting health. When you abuse it, like anything, you're going to screw yourself. I don't drink myself, but I recognize alcohol's role in our nature. It is found in nature in small amounts which should do no harm whatsoever. If you can't moderate your consumption, that's your problem.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Iam not going to lie and say I don't drink, but I have cut the volume down significantly, I normally now only drink whilst on ATS

, but here is a good tip perhaps for anyone reading this... and who really want to cut down on intake.

Every time you want a drink have a coffee (only at first)
Then just drink pure bottled water ( cold) drink only water for the next days, weeks months , let water become your new positive habit.

You can revitalise yourself , give yourself natural energy , clean out your entire body, rejuvinate your kidneys and Liver therefore your blood ect by simply embracing water in large volumes.
WATER, is the antidote to alcohol habit, just get hooked on WATER.
It fills your stomach neutralises the craving, your head becomes clear.
It hydrates the human body.
WATER .

Damn straight!

I've always drunk lots of water, but now that I'm not drinking alcohol (and I've stopped coffee as of 3 days ago), I'm finding that I've got buckets more energy.

I guess both alcohol and coffee dehydrate the body, therefore you need more water to hydrate - so knock out coffee and alcohol, and all of a sudden your water intake is massive ... and you feel great.

I'm very much enjoying this non drinking idea

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I always thought the problem was more one of the mass production of alcohol.

Things are very different when you can just go to the market and drop pocket change on gallons of poison.

Home brewing with intention takes care, patience, planning and creates something with an intrinsic value you wont be so quick to waste.

I maybe have 6 drinks a year but I brew constantly. Working with different grains and sugars and hops and flavors. I've cellard and gifted some really amazing beer over the years that mean a lot to me. Beer which I would never dream of guzzling the way I see people do with their mass market hobo piss.

We don't really appreciate anything these days when there's a WalMart on every block and you don't have to create any of the things you want.

Next time somebody with abuse issues wants to gorge on a whole cake or drink a gallon of beer I suggest that person start from the very beginning and create the thing he wants to abuse. Create it from scratch and see if you still want to abuse it when it's all done.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

I never, ever looked at it like that - and what a brilliant idea!

It's exactly the same as when you cook a cake from scratch - you thoroughly enjoy it, and you take your time.

Great post!

reply to post by WordPlayJAy



You can quit drinking if you really want to. Many have done just that. I used to drink beer every day. I got to the point I couldn't go without it. I was waking up in the middle of the night needing to drink 2 or 3 beers just to get rid of the withdraw symptoms. I was only 27 when I finally got sober. It took me 3 detoxes and a couple of relapses before I went to rehab for 30 days followed by 3 to 4 years of AA. I have a little over 5 years now. Best wishes to all who take on this endevor. You can do it but it's okay to ask for help.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by ExCommando

 

How dangerous is alcohol compared to other illegal drugs? Take a look: M vs A

I don't think it's about comparing how "bad" one is vs the other - marijuana is also a depressant, and a scourge on society.

Yes, some people take it for medicinal purposes etc - but the truth is it's another form of escapism / self-medicating.

Originally posted by LargeFries
reply to post by ExCommando

 

ExCommando I don't agree with your opinion that alcohol is most peoples constant companion. And I think your observation is based upon reflection about those you know, your circle, your life.

In my younger day drinking was a constant, same went for the bulk of the guys & girls I hung out with. Later in life here I am sober. Those in my circle are different people than in more youthful days. Most people I socialize with now have not touched alcohol in years.

My heart goes out to anyone under the thumb of alcohol. I lived that way a long time and the price one pays is far too high. I took major changes in my life to beat the bottle. Now I'm finally working on ending a long-term Coca-Cola abuse that has been the substitute. Tastes good but no so good for you.

My observation comes from responses from around 150 people, from all different walks of life - from public servants through to Directors of large companies.

Australia may be a different culture than the US - I've never really met anyone who doesn't drink.

The first thing that comes to mind is the proverbial 'moderation.' I believe most people that indulge are not alcoholics, in the negative sense. I say negative becasue 2-3 beers a day, everyday, could be considered alcoholism. It is true that alcohol has contributed to much harm, violence and discontent, but man, I think about life without a crutch or relaxing agents sometimes, and honestly, I am grateful that myself, as well as others have access to something that can unwind one from a hard day, week or life. Not to say everyone should get their buzz on, but think about how bad pent up aggression could turn societies sour and more cynical and violent. The flipside? Yes, no alcohol might have positive effects overall, but I personally think we need our conscious altering substances....in MODERATION.

Peace,
spec

To answer your question, I do. Please listen to my explanation before judging me.

I have severe Fibromyalgia and Bi-polar disorder. These things keep me from being able to work due to physical pain and some mental issues that I have no control over.

I'm sure it's pretty obvious at this point that I can't afford health insurance and the government won't help me because according to them "I'm perfectly fine and able to work" despite what the doctors tell them.

Because of my lack of insurance the doctors will not prescribe me pain medication that actually works. They have tried a few minor medications for my Fibromyalgia because they are cheap, but none of them have worked.

Basically, the "wonderful" United States government has screwed me into a life of misery and poverty, but I have discovered that if I drink a few beers, it helps my physical pain a lot more than any of the cheap medications they have put me on.

Thanks for reading. Now you can judge away.

Originally posted by ExCommando

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by ExCommando

 

How dangerous is alcohol compared to other illegal drugs? Take a look: M vs A

I don't think it's about comparing how "bad" one is vs the other - marijuana is also a depressant, and a scourge on society.

Yes, some people take it for medicinal purposes etc - but the truth is it's another form of escapism / self-medicating.

I agree that being dependent on any substance is negative.

However in terms of regular recreational use, alcohol is be far the most damaging drug for both the body and the brain (again with the possible exception of crystal meth).

The ratio of damage to "high" for alcohol is fundamentally different than almost every other drug because it consumes your brain rather than targeting specific areas.

Originally posted by ArcAngel
I won't bore everyone with my details, but here's a tip that may help someone. Alcoholics don't fight the booze, they are fighting the craving. If the urge wasn't there, they would not take that first drink from the endless bottle. It's the craving.

So my great wife saw a segment a few years ago about a Doctor in France. This guy was a hard core alcoholic and his life was in ruins. He realized he wasn't strong enough to withstand the cravings, so he tried to find a drug to reduce or eliminate them. What he found was amazing.

Google "Baclofen + Alcoholism"

It may save your life, it made mine a lot better that's for sure.

P.S. Those of you who keep suing that your in your 20's and 30's and you drink all the time and you're doing fine, give it 10 years......

edit on 22-6-2011 by ArcAngel because: Corrected grammar that weren't good, twas badder

That drug sounded great at first but by the time I had finished the wiki page the downside became obvious...

Withdrawal syndrome

Discontinuation of baclofen can be associated with a withdrawal syndrome which resembles benzodiazepine withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are more likely if baclofen is used for long periods of time (more than a couple of months) and can occur from low or high doses. The severity of baclofen withdrawal depends on the rate at which baclofen is discontinued. Thus to minimise baclofen withdrawal symptoms the dose should be tapered down slowly when discontinuing baclofen therapy. Abrupt withdrawal is most likely to result in severe withdrawal symptoms. Acute withdrawal symptoms can be stopped by recommencing baclofen.[22]

Withdrawal symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness, Nausea, Feeling Faint, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity.[22][23]

So the withdrawals from this drug are similar to Valium or booze?

...See sooner or later ya going to have to face the music.

You can trade your drug dependence on a very harmful drug like alcohol with a dependence on a pharmacy medication that will have less physiological side effects, but the emotional turmoil and pain of withdrawal has to be faced sooner or later, in my experience dragging it out over months just makes it more unbearable, acute withdrawal under 24/7 medical supervision (and the diazepam, maxalon etc. short term) seemed to work best.

As for the cravings that linger in the months and years to come, there are other methods that will work without getting you hooked on another substance.

But then again, everyone seems to swear by a particular method. I guess it just highlights how individual we all are.

reply to post by JAGx1981


I really don't like how people keep generalizing about drinkers.

First of all, I don't support any large corporations with my drinking. I brew most of the beer I drink, and the beer I buy is craft brews, from a small independent beer shop that only sells craft brews. High quality beer, a large portion of it is brewed locally, as to support my local economy.

Second of all, alcohol may dumb-down people that are already dumb, like drunken college students. Alcohol is not the opiate of the masses, OPIATES are the opiate of the masses. Opiates make you apathetic, alcohol, not so much.

Some of the most serious anti-government conversations I've ever had, have been with close friends over a few pints of good brew. So, I hardly see how alcohol is keeping people down, if anything it's opening their eyes, and getting them angry about what's going on around them.

I have never been addicted, or dependent on alcohol. I usually drink 1-2 times a week, rarely actually get drunk.

Honestly I couldn't care less about what you people think about alcohol, or drinkers, but some of the statements in this thread are nothing but sweeping generalizations with little basis in reality.

I can not stand the taste of alcohol. ICK! And I think I may be allergic to it. the few times I have sipped on a drink, my neck and chest broke out in hives. So it's a good thing I don't like the taste.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by James1982


There are many people in society that are social drinkers....they are not alcoholics...they are responsible adults and can handle it....you are a good example of such a person.

I am a good example of an alcoholic.....I cannot handle it...so I choose not to drink alcohol.

Everyone has a choice and a responsibility.