Gold/Silver OTC trading illegal for US residents after July 15, 2011?

I received a panic call from the american bullion company other day. I cant remember the words she used because I am not very well versed in this subject, but I understood enough to where it truly scared me!! I wish now I would not have deleted the message.....

the price or precious medals like gold and silver just exploded according to msm here in holland.
its probably a response to the message of the op.
so what will happen next.
imo its another scam and is the beginning of a great depression and possibly ww 3.

reply to post by PaganArchangel

I would like to know what criteria is being used to set the price of precious metals.
I too, believe it is artificially high (so are diamonds) and when the bubble bursts, it will fall back down to where it would have been other wise.
I remember the Hunt brothers, lol

Probably a lot of people wonder about the price of gold, maybe being "too high", or in a bubble, that will soon burst.

It's perhaps difficult to think outside of ways we normally think, but this is an example of when we need to do exactly that.

For example, we may go to the market, and buy apples. We have some notion of what an apple is worth, a "dollar", or a euro, or a half-a-pound, etc.

But we've already gone wrong. Because we think in terms of our currency, confusing it with "value", we have little hope of grasping such a notion when it comes to something like gold.

In fact, it's exactly backwards.

We need to understand that an apple is "worth" something, regardless of what currency we use. It wouldn't matter if we used sea shells, an apple would always be worth something.

Same with gold. We may imagine that $1,500 for an ounce of gold is "too much", but this is backwards thinking. In fact, the ounce of gold is, and has always been, worth something, and quite likely, this intrinsic "worth", hasn't changed all that much.

What has changed is the "worth" of the thing that is being used to purchase it. Let's say the dollar, or the euro. Today, it takes more dollars, or euros, or pounds, to buy the SAME ounce of gold.

SO, when we see that the "price" of gold has gone "up", we are also seeing that the "value" (purchasing power) of the unit of currency has just gone "down". This is why it takes more of them to buy the same thing.

It's funny though, about gold. If it was an apple, that used to cost a dollar, but now cost $5, perhaps a few people might wonder if a crop had been destroyed, but most would conclude that "inflation" was responsible. They might remember when they could buy a whole bag of apples for $5. The old-timers might even say something like, "The dollar isn't what it used to be. There was a time when I could buy a whole bag of groceries for that!"

So, back to the gold "bubble". It might be better to imagine the dollar somehow rising in value. True, TRILLIONS of dollars have recently been created, out of nothing. It would seem hard to believe such ephemeral things as dollars could somehow become worth "more", but, that's what we would have to imagine, in order to see the "price" of gold (in fiat currency) go "down".

Another way to put it, what would a dollar buy, if it only took $300 to buy an ounce of gold? Quite a bit I would guess! Is such a thing likely to happen?

Probably not in our lifetimes.

JR

Executive Order 6102 part 2 has been touted as the most confusing bill ever enacted. From my readings, it is mostly directed toward paper trading and not buying 'pieces-of eight' from your local coin dealer. A good read on this can be found at allamericangold.com... or just allamericangold.com Other interesting info to brighten your day can be found there also. When a bill is so confusing it is hard for a lawyer to understand, then we are probably in trouble. (I am not a lawyer)

Two reasons they'd be doing this (allegedly); 1. Most importantly, you can currently use a paper currency that's quickly devaluing to buy something with real value, and 2. There's just not enough gold and silver to to satisfy the market anymore. Personally I don't believe that about silver, but that's JMO. Good to have some of both though.

Peace

reply to post by Dr Love


I think it may be more true for silver to be honest. Silver has consistently outperformed gold for the last couple of years.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Dr Love

 

I think it may be more true for silver to be honest. Silver has consistently outperformed gold for the last couple of years.

It certainly has lately, that's for sure. That's what scares me though, I think it's a ploy. Could be wrong though.

The price of gold has been sitting pretty still of late, but the price of a gold sovereign has jumped about $20 (give or take a little) in the same time.

Peace

I think this would be a good site to put here, in hopes of seeing what this law does to the price of gold www.kitco.com... seems to holding, now the law back in 34' took gold price from 20$ too 35$ over night when it became law , lets see if the same thing happens come July 15, say gold stays at the 1550 mark give+/- 5$ and then add the 15$ today's figure 150$ gold could go as high as 1700$

It looks like Forex.com will eliminate OTC spot trading in gold and silver as of July 15th.

The new law does not seem to affect futures trading nor does it affect buying or selling of physical gold or silver but for people who have open positions in OTC spot trading, those positions will need to be closed. Depending on the volume of these types of positions, it may or may not cause a move in the price of the metals.

Of-course there are the traditional factors which always have a bearing on price: strength of the dollar, state of the economy etc. Presently, the turmoil in Europe may add some dollar strength but for how long? And what of QE3? Once the private for profit "Federal Reserve" starts printing again, commodity prices should continue to rise.

It looks like Forex.com will eliminate OTC spot trading in gold and silver as of July 15th.

The new law does not seem to affect futures trading nor does it affect buying or selling of physical gold or silver but for people who have open positions in OTC spot trading, those positions will need to be closed. Depending on the volume of these types of positions, it may or may not cause a move in the price of the metals.

Of-course there are the traditional factors which always have a bearing on price: strength of the dollar, state of the economy etc. Presently, the turmoil in Europe may add some dollar strength but for how long? And what of QE3? Once the private for profit "Federal Reserve" starts printing again, commodity prices should continue to rise.

Frankly, I can't help but think this is a bunch of malarkey. Anybody remember that scare a couple of years back when everybody thought that organic food was no longer going to be legal? Well guess what? It's still available, for anybody who wants it. We need to start trying to separate the fearmongers from the whistleblowers, weeding them out, and exposing them. Because if we can't, it's going to take that much longer to wake the world up.

This is a live chat I had with a Forex Trader.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'James D'

James D: Hello and welcome to Client Services. May I have your User ID (account number) or email address to better assist you?

Angie: I just wanted to clarify this information with you

Angie: is it true that a new regulation prohibiting US residents from trading over the counter precious metals, including gold and silver, will go into effect on Friday, July 15, 2011.

James D: Unfortunately that is correct, due to new regulations passed by the NFA, in response to the Dodd Frank act.

Angie: is there a website that I can go to to access this and see it first hand?

James D: Please click for information

Angie: ok, are they the ones who pass this ordinance?

James D: Yes, it was passed by Congress.

Angie: when and for how long will this be?

James D: This is permanent legislation.

James D: Unless it is repealed at some point.

Angie: Ok, should we as consumers be worried?

Angie: i guess I am asking is this something that is normal

James D: Yes, clients are not happy.

James D: We did lobby against the legislation, but now that it is law we have no choice but to abide by it.

Angie: do you have link to the law?

James D: Click here for the Act

Angie: ok, thank you

James D: You're welcome.

James D: Is there anything else I can assist you with?

Angie: no thank you

James D: Have a nice day.

James D: Thank you for visiting. Should you have further questions or comments please log on to chat, email, call us at 1-877-FOREXGO (367-3946) or internationally at 1-908-731-0750.

The links he gave me are:
www.risk-compliance-association.com...
and here is a link to the NFA: www.nfa.futures.org...

Hope this helps in some way

From the "You just can't write everything off as coincidence" department, when I clicked back to the main forum page from reading this thread, This



was the featured sponsor advertisement.

I have to admit, this new law seems to be extremely questionable in both motive and timing. We are rapidly reaching the point where virtually everything we as Americans do to protect ourselves physically, financially, and mentally somehow runs afoul of the law. I guess the only options are to either bend over and take it or grit your teeth and prepare for the eventuality of being considered a criminal for ignoring stupidity in the form of unjust laws.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I suspect this "response" to the Dodd Act was a choice the NFA made.

National Futures Association (NFA) is the industrywide, self-regulatory organization for the U.S. futures industry. We strive every day to develop rules, programs and services that safeguard market integrity, protect investors and help our Members meet their regulatory responsibilities.

Managing risk by trading futures and options on futures contracts is a vital component of the global economy. Every business day tens of millions of futures contracts are traded on an increasingly broad spectrum of products, including agricultural commodities, oil, precious metals, equities, treasury bonds, financial indexes and foreign currencies.

Investor confidence is crucial to the success of the futures markets, and the best way to gain investor confidence is to ensure that the highest levels of integrity are demanded of all market participants and intermediaries.

Membership in NFA is mandatory, assuring that everyone conducting business with the public on the U.S. futures exchanges-more than 4,200 firms and 55,000 associates-must adhere to the same high standards of professional conduct.

NFA is an independent regulatory organization with no ties to any specific marketplace. We operate at no cost to the taxpayer. We are financed exclusively from membership dues and from assessment fees paid by the users of the futures markets.

.

www.nfa.futures.org...

Membership is mandatory. By law. Another legislated monopoly...

NFA's Role in the U.S. Futures Industry
In 1974 Congress established the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), a federal regulatory agency with jurisdiction over futures trading. The same legislation authorized the creation of "registered futures associations," giving the futures industry the opportunity to create a nationwide self-regulatory organization.

The CFTC provides government oversight for the entire industry. Each U.S. futures exchange operates as a self-regulatory organization, governing its floor brokers, traders and member firms. NFA regulates every firm or individual who conducts futures trading business with public customers. Although the various regulatory organizations in the futures industry have their own specific areas of authority, together they form a regulatory partnership that oversees all industry participants.

So the market represents itself in this decision?

In other words ONLY 'international trading corporations" can buy and sell gold ? But it is illegal for an American citizen to do it? Someone explain to me the missing part of this equation?

Executive Committee

Chairman of the Board
W. Robert Felker
Chairman
JPMorgan Futures, Inc.

Vice-Chairman of the Board
Christopher K. Hehmeyer
Non-executive Chairman
Penson GHCO
c/o HTG Capital Partners

Mark G. Bagan
President and Chief Executive Officer
Minneapolis Grain Exchange

Bruce L. Cleland
Vice Chairman
Campbell & Company, Inc.

George E. Crapple
Co-Chairman and Co-Chief Executive Officer
Millburn Ridgefield Corp.

Paul J. Georgy
President
Allendale, Inc.

Douglas E. Harris
Managing Director
Promontory Financial Group L.L.C.

Charles P. Nastro
New York, New York

Todd E. Petzel
Chief Investment Officer
Offit Capital Advisors LLC

Susan M. Phillips
Arlington, Virginia

Daniel J. Roth*
President
National Futures Association

John F. Sandner
Special Policy Advisor
Retired Chairman of the Board
CME Group Inc.

Ostensibly, none of these people were at all 'surprised' by this, why are we?

So has anybody figuered out what all this means? Are those "buy gold" commercials going to go away? As a private citizen, I can't invest in gold anymore? Is that whats going on?

Originally posted by Mikeyy
So has anybody figuered out what all this means? Are those "buy gold" commercials going to go away? As a private citizen, I can't invest in gold anymore? Is that whats going on?

No, for the last time...That is NOT what is going on.

If you want physical gold or Gold paper with a decent reserve ratio you can still get them.

bobchapman.blogspot.com...

this guy says it won't affect private purchasers like us

"Bob Chapman of the International Forecaster explains in details what the 'Trading over the counter gold and silver' becoming illegal starting from July 15 really means , he says you should not worry about it , it is not going to affect the general public of bullion gold and silver buyers this is a market for professionals the aim for this legislation is to create panic confusion among the public and scare them from longing gold and silver while shorting the dollar bob Chapman says it is psychological warfare and you should not worry about it..

it looks like Zerohedge which first brought this story was wrong about the significance and the magnitude of this story."

and another says it won't affect us

investorshub.advfn.com...#

"The part of the Frank-Dodd law at issue today regulates futures and leveraged or margin accounts where you only put down part of the money, and borrow the rest. It might also affect bad industry dealers who take longer than 28 days to deliver. This will likely affect other bad dealers who offer private forms of leveraged or margined accounts for bullion. One quick and easy way to show that gold and silver trading are not being made illegal in the USA is to watch the US Mint. As long as they continue to offer gold and silver coins for sale, then you can bet that buying US Mint products will be ok."


and one more
blogs.marketwatch.com...

Nevertheless, some observers contend that there is nothing in Dodd-Frank – or in Commodity Futures Trading Commission rules under consideration — that prohibits retail investors from investing in gold or silver.

“It’s a bit of an overreaction on Forex.com’s part,” said Terry Hanlon President of Dillon Gage Metals in Dallas Texas, a brokerage firm that specializes in metals.

Tom Winmill, President and Portfolio Manager of the Midas funds MIDSX, points out that Dodd-Frank provides an exemption for retail transactions in gold or silver if it is delivered within 28 days.

As the US dollar crashes the NWO restricts the safety net (gold/silver)

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Sounds like an attempt to get rid of Tradinmg on Margin in the OTC market. The kind of stuff that caused the 1929 stock market crash.

I forget the name now, but there wqas a very basic new law brought in to stop trading on margin above a certain ratio. Can anyone point me to the name? Can't find it after a brief web search.

Looks like the OTC market may have slipped under that law, and this is a correction for that.

Trading on margin is basically gambling using borrowed money. Not good.