Gold/Silver OTC trading illegal for US residents after July 15, 2011?

Originally posted by projectvxn
From what I understand Dodd/Frank creates reserve requirements of physical for regulated markets as well.

Hi projectvxn. Not that I'm aware of. I believe there was initially a proposal to trim the delivery period for physical retail transactions to 2 days, but thanks to the lobbying efforts of numerous disgruntled PM dealers the provision was ultimately abandoned.

Here's an email I received from Oanda yesterday.

As a result of the recently enacted Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, U.S.-based retail forex dealers such as OANDA are prohibited from offering leveraged trading in precious metals to retail clients after Friday, July 15, 2011.

As a client trading with our OANDA Corporate (U.S.) Division, you will not be able to trade our four precious metal pairs (XAU/USD, XAG/USD, XAU/JPY, XAG/JPY) on a leveraged basis, effective end of day July 15, 2011. Leveraged trading in other currency pairs will remain unaffected, with the same margin requirements.

We are working hard to minimize the impact of this restriction on our clients’ trading. For example, if you are not a citizen or resident of the U.S.A. you will be able to transition soon to our OANDA Europe Division without needing to close your open positions. We will send a detailed email soon with instructions on how to migrate your account.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience caused by this change in legal requirements. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team at [email protected].

We appreciate your business with OANDA.

- The OANDA fxTrade Team

As it turns out, Oanda is a registered retail foreign exchange dealer.

Retail Foreign Exchange Dealer

Persons offering to be or acting as a counterparty to retail forex transactions to be registered as retail foreign exchange dealers (RFEDs) or futures commission merchants (FCMs) with the CFTC, unless they are regulated by another Federal regulatory agency. - Link

The only part of this ruling that applies to US residents trading with Oanda is the margin restriction. I can still trade XAU - XAG, but it will cost me. Essentially I have to cover the full cost of my position.

Originally posted by projectvxn
lol @ Frankendodd

Hat tip to ZeroHedge for that one. If nothing else, they're always good for a laugh

Cheers!

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by anumohi
buy lead, preferably in 308 by the 1500 count and at least 10,000, then you can have all the gold and silver you want

All my lead is in 9mm, .40, and 5.56mm denominations.

just be sure to spend it wisely

we are all #ed okay
so the pice of precious meteals has skyrocketed as was foretold by someone in this thread
u still dont get it?
allright im done here
i will just be preparing myself for the after life
gl burning

If this is only for leveraged/margin trades etc, as said on first page, then it doesn't afect the average person and is probable a good thing because is will stabalize the price a bit.

www.kitco.com... after looking at this it seems the pre panic of the "ban" is doing one thing, driving the price down . I have to ask is this there plan drive the price down so you have to sell it. I knew it would fall in price but this was not seen. Just a side note the US dollar is going strong, could this be the pay off? investing.money.msn.com... take a look at this from the link

CONVERT CURRENCIES
Convert this amount:
From:US Dollar
To:Chinese Yuan

Results: 1.00000 US Dollar = 6.49646 Chinese Yuan
6.49646 Chinese Yuan per US Dollar
Based on daily rates for the US dollar

so much for the Chinese taking over as the would currency

what no Gold holders yelling like mad "this can not be" "I lost my investment" or are you to blind from the brightness of the gold to see. Your gold is failing and falling, how does it feel to be in one of the "when the balloon pops" investment bubbles? Housing, gold, silver, and stocks; could it be that you through greed, you make it happen? some one with more than you have gets up one day and says sell, floods the market with his/hers holdings. Thus dropping the floor just so it cheaper for him/ her to buy more when the time price is right. I will buy gold when it hits 100$ and oz and then sell when it hits $1500 ok so it got up to almost $1600 let the sell off begin.

reply to post by bekod



Wow you really don't have a clue do you... The drops are just blips on the over all Up trend. People like you have been saying the same BS since gold rose from under $300 to over $1500 and silver from under $5 to nearly $50. If you had done any homework there have been temporary drops and holding patterns all along the way and the prices have never fallen back to thier previous level. They rise quick to new heights then drop back a little bit and hold in that range for a while and then rise again. Ultimately the over all trend for the last 10+ years has been UP! Gold has outperformed all other securities in the last 11 years. Sure those who play the markets looking for a quick buck can lose speculating on when the market will rise or fall. But those buying physical gold to protect thier wealth will never lose because the number of pieces of paper one can trade for gold or silver at any given time is not the true value of PM's It is the purchasing power of gold and silver despite paper inflation that makes gold & silver the faithful hedge against hard times for thousands of years. When paper currency isn't worth the paper its printed on gold and silver will still buy goods and services!

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by bekod

 

But those buying physical gold to protect thier wealth will never lose because the number of pieces of paper one can trade for gold or silver at any given time is not the true value of PM's It is the purchasing power of gold and silver despite paper inflation that makes gold & silver the faithful hedge against hard times for thousands of years. When paper currency isn't worth the paper its printed on gold and silver will still buy goods and services!

edit on 27-6-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

You almost had me till there. Ask someone who bought gold in the 80's to protect their wealth how they fared for the next two decades. There also isn't enough gold in the world to start a barter system with over 6 billion people in the world. There are no sure things. The only sure thing is diversification.

reply to post by Dance4Life

You almost had me till there. Ask someone who bought gold in the 80's to protect their wealth how they fared for the next two decades. There also isn't enough gold in the world to start a barter system with over 6 billion people in the world. There are no sure things. The only sure thing is diversification.

That's because you don't have a clue either what I am talking about. You have no understanding of the value. The value of gold is not determined by fiat currency but by what you can trade it for at any given time. The price of it in terms of dollars at any given time is not its value but rather reflects mainly the inflation or and or weakness of the dollar.

Clueless folks like you who speculated in the 80's trying to make a quick buck having no understanding of the real value have nothing to do with what's is happening today. You might want to ask yourself why banks and the elite are buying up gold like hot cakes while having thier media tell you its a bubble and will crash.

There is always enough gold and silver in the world when one understands that it is not backing fiat currency inflated by the trillions and should not, and that prices always adjust to the amount currency in circulation which is economics 101. But I suspect this will fly right over your head also....

reply to post by hawkiye


Right, I know the value. I know that if I would have invested in the SP500 instead of gold since 198x I would be vastly more rich than if I bought gold. We can go as far back on the timeline as you want.

Until we are shaving gold bars for gasoline your statements hold no merit. Diversification is king in the end.

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Right, I know the value. I know that if I would have invested in the SP500 instead of gold since 198x I would be vastly more rich than if I bought gold. We can go as far back on the timeline as you want.

Until we are shaving gold bars for gasoline your statements hold no merit. Diversification is king in the end.

Sorry my friend but you need to recheck your facts. Go to the site for the raw data charts and links.

Gold has outperformed the S&P 500 by 17% annualized over the past 5 years, 16.7% annualized over the past 8 years, and 12.2% annualized over the past 10 years." I couldn't believe it! I checked and rechecked the calculation, and found no error.

fskrealityguide.blogspot.com...

reply to post by OBE1


Thanks for your explanation. You cleared up my questions and I very much appreciate that! It took me a long time in reading to come to the conclusion that I can still sell gold at a pawn shop (not that I would) but the title of the thread had me a bit freaked. There is something sinister in thinking we the people would be banned from going about our personal business by our government.

reply to post by hawkiye


Go back more than 10 years. I am not sure what you are trying to get at. There is nothing secret about historical charts of both on the internet. I said 198x ( 20 + years is usually one's investing lifetime ).

Do the past 10 years in your mind mean more than the past 50+? There really isn't a lot of debate here.

** By the way, don't forget about the huge taxation on gains in metals. Plus markup. **

the title of this thread is true all that i have read and know about , lucky to have heard about this FDR law back when it was in place said you the person could not have nor sell nor trade gold for oz value had to be face value so lets say you have 100 $20 Gold peaces what is the vale of them if the law was in effect now would you have $2,000 or would you have 100 times 20 oz @ say $1500 an oz give your best answer and see if you know what is coming.
Gold chains and rings are not part of this, they are cosmetic even if pure gold, if you tried to sell them as pure gold you would be breaking the law, as it is written. just for info the gold at today's closing $1498 the market is bust, it was fun while it lasted

I asked Moe Ansari (CEO Compak Asset Management) about this. His opinion, the middle class can't leverage and the wealthy still have ways to leverage. A poorer middle class and a wealthier wealthy class.

Haven't done the research yet, but the restriction on US residents might not include corporations.

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Go back more than 10 years. I am not sure what you are trying to get at. There is nothing secret about historical charts of both on the internet. I said 198x ( 20 + years is usually one's investing lifetime ).

Do the past 10 years in your mind mean more than the past 50+? There really isn't a lot of debate here.

** By the way, don't forget about the huge taxation on gains in metals. Plus markup. **

edit on 27-6-2011 by Dance4Life because: (no reason given)

The markets and currencies go in about ten year cycles. So yes it is better to do things in ten your increments as it is unrelated to what happened 20 or 50 years ago. The 1980's gold bubble/crash was due to a huge market manipulation.

And there are no taxations on gold and silver though they are trying. Taxes are only on fiat currency money from nothing. People looking to increase their immediate supply of FRN's are the ones who got burned and it is the same today. Those who know the real value of gold and sliver buy only physical gold & silver. And most who got burned never had any physical gold they were simply trading fake contracts for them to make a quick buck just as they are today. Also even in trading paper some savy traders shorted that 80's market and did well. So the whole myth that gold is just like fiat currency is laughable when what they are trading really is paper which once again has NO GOLD OR SILVER BACKING.

The big taxes you tout are capital gains taxes so when a paper gold/silver trader sells contracts and makes a profit he is taking FRN's for his profit as with all equity trades including real estate hence taxation. Physical gold and silver cannot be taxed yet which is one of the reasons FDR and the banking cartels did away with real money. Have to pay the interest on those FRN's and tax the people to death to steal thier wealth.

Hey hawkiye, this must be bekod's first barbecue Gold has corrected -10% since the end of April vs corrections of -18% in 2003, -27% in 2006 and -32% in 2008. People that listened to the chicken little[s] back then were left standing on the platform clutching a fist full of fiat watching the Gold train roar by...wishing they could turn back the clock....but they can't...they're out.

The S&P:Gold Ratio measures the value of the S&P index against the price of Gold.....across time. Here's a graph showing the ratio from the Gold high in Q1 1980, through February 21, 2011 when Gold closed at $1400.

And here's some of the text that comes with it:

S&P 500 vs. Gold Price
February 21, 2011

Over the last 35 years, the relative price of Gold1 and the S&P 5002 has oscillated up and down very significantly. In the aftermath of 2008 and the financial crisis, this ratio has regressed toward a value of 1.0, which indicates equal valuation for the S&P 500 index and an ounce of gold. In the latter half of 2010, the S&P 500 vs. Gold ratio dropped below 1.0 as Gold prices were pushed up by speculators seeking to hedge against expected future inflation. Our analysis indicates that this trend is likely to continue through 2011 as monetary expansion inflates both asset classes.

If the economy slips back into recession from monetary tightening or the cumulative impact of additional government taxes and regulations, we expect to see the S&P 500 price move significantly below the price for gold. Conversely, we anticipate that the S&P 500 will resume a growth trajectory relative to gold when the economic and political conditions become more favorable for expansion. At present, these conditions are not likely to transpire in 2011, and may take until 2012 or longer. - Full text

In a nut shell, when the ratio is rising the S&P is outperforming Gold, when the ratio is falling Gold is outperforming stocks. When the ratio reaches 1, one ounce of Gold will buy 1 share of the index. As of yesterday's close the ratio was at 0.86. Across the past 30yrs the winner is Gold.

GL

reply to post by OBE1


Umm if you would have actually looked at your chart the SP500 is by far the winner since 1980.

Also, since some are obviously a little short on history here were the prices of both in 1980.

Sp 500 = 117
Gold = 600


In 2011

Sp500 = 1300 ( 1100 % gain )

Gold = 1500 ( 250 % gain )


So which has performed better? Some of you should do some more research. You haven't forgotten yet about the taxation problem as well in gold.

This is getting ridiculous.

reply to post by hawkiye


You must not hold any for gains then - either that or you are cheating the IRS.

Originally posted by Dance4Life
reply to post by hawkiye

 

You must not hold any for gains then - either that or you are cheating the IRS.

Ignorance is bliss. It never ceases to amaze me how people repeat non-sense with out verifying it. THERE IS NO TAX ON GOLD AND SILVER and I defy anyone to show me the law that says there is. There is a tax on capital gains using FRN's on any security or equity. If you trade your gold for FRNS's (stupid move) then they will tax the FRN's if you made a profit but if you buy it and hold it and the price in FRN's rises there is no tax unless you trade it for FRN;s at the higher price.

People can' seem to separate the value of gold from the price in fiat currency since they have been brain washed for generations. Try drinking filtered water and maybe you will get a clue eventually.