do you believe in free will ? do you believe in TPTB ? what do you do for a living ?

reply to post by Elostone


I think I agree with you on this. one part of the is about earning and spending. I can understand that money is the # 1 goal. but I think TPTB is behind that.

the hardest questions to answer are the most simple ones. here it is - why did we use money ?

in the past , we used money to get what we needed from others. I mean , in the early ages human beings felt that they need some thing. i.e they could see that the neighbor has it. they gave some thing and they took what they needed instead. fair trade.

nowadays , we don't think about what we need basically . we try to earn money because they define it as the power in the modern world. we see that they have all the money in the world .so , do they have the power ? can they do whatever they wish ?

I see that people are just seeking money and I don't like it. I want to get away from the games TPTB is playing with the blind society.I don't want to get as much money as I can , because it is not a value to me . I just want to live fairly.

isn't there any way ?

reply to post by Bleeeeep


thank you for your concern.

I think my main question is : how can we eliminate MSM so that every one can think and decide for one's self ?

when thinking is possible , different decision is possible as an outcome . then I think that I can move freely in my society.

one day I used to think that people do as they wish in US. after I got on ATS , I understood that they don't have freedom at all. they have free will to move in one direction , the MSM.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Bleeeeep

 

thank you for your concern.

I think my main question is : how can we eliminate MSM so that every one can think and decide for one's self ?

when thinking is possible , different decision is possible as an outcome . then I think that I can move freely in my society.

one day I used to think that people do as they wish in US. after I got on ATS , I understood that they don't have freedom at all. they have free will to move in one direction , the MSM.

No one is forced to listen, read, watch or pay any attention what so ever to the MSM.

I don't....I exercise my free will to read, play with my dog, ride my bicycle or surf the www. People can exercise their free will to patronize the MSM or not. It's their choice.

Seeking scapegoats for the failing of a culture is counter productive.

reply to post by hmdphantom


It seems that you and me have similar philosophies when it comes to education. Well, maybe.


When it comes to free will: I believe in it. The problem is that our free will is limited by outside factors. Well... I guess technically it's not. You could do anything you want, the problem is that after you've exercised your will, TBTP have consequences waiting depending upon how your will was exercised.

I kind of answered the second question with the first. I do believe there are powers out there that control much more than any individual or group of individuals should control.

As for what I'm going to do for a living... I'm going to LEARN.
I know, spending a lifetime in school is a rather selfish endeavor. But I could never see myself learning to do a trade or limiting myself to one career. Plus, I don't want to learn something if the only goal is to make money with what I've learned.
This is why, instead of majoring in business or economics or communications in my undergrad, I ended up majoring in philosophy and theology. I feel that those two subjects are the most applicable to life and death. Sure, they wont help me make any kind of profit, but money isn't my concern. Enlightening my mind: the one thing that can't be taken any from me, is what I feel is important.

So now, I'll continue with philosophy and theology in grad school. Then continue with post grad work... and eventually teach in a university somewhere (if I'm lucky).

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


thank you. you made it easier for me.my answer is : I was doing as they wish till this moment , and now I am awake , I want to make a different move and I see that I should ignore all the efforts I have made to be free. ( I agree with you that it is hard )

may be you laugh at me , but while I started this thread this idea popped into my head ,

' you want to live on a farm , but you can live in a village too '

I wanted to see that is there a possibility to make the village here on ATS ?

reply to post by whaaa


you do that because you are thinking different. how many people do you know that do the same , I mean outside of ATS ?
+ I didn't want to do anything badly. I just meant that I know about how they live.

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx


when it comes to education I have lots of questions.

do you want to teach what ever they wish ?
is the system healthy ?
is it gonna work for others ?
can students claim what they think ?
will they pass the exam if they write their own idea ?
does the edu system care about creativity ? do you care ?
can the student choose between the courses they pass ?
will your class be efficient ?
will anyone be as much worthy as he\she has knowledge ?
how much are they forced to choose the course ?

This is the single most important issue there is. There is a lot of confusion about the facts. So I will lay it out and what TPTB are truly doing.

1. Keep in mind the Creator is all, you, me the rocks, the sun, the possibility of all life.

2. For the Creator, all is Freewill. The Creator's energy allows all things to do as they please, as there are no limitations besides the one's that people and things place on themselves.

3. You are the Creator, as you are an inextricable part of the whole. As the Creator you ARE Freewill - you don't have Freewill, you ARE it.

4. Freewill is not a law, it is not an idea, it is not something given to you, Freewill just is; there is no dispute, there is no arguing, it simply is and all ARE it.

How this applies to the overlords. In order to get some one to play your game, they must agree to it, as Freewill cannot be circumvented. You must agree to all you do and those you interact with must agree to interact with you. This important to keep in mind; again all things happen by you accessing your Freewill and using it to interact with someone or something, there is no other way.

TPTB know this. So, in order to get you to do as they say, they have to convince you that Freewill does not exist. First they isolated all from anything they don't control, then they gave Freewill to everyone but you. First they gave that power to God. You were told that you didn't have Freewill but God did, and he had it over you. Then you were told that the laws of science dictated everything, Freewill had nothing to do with anything, Science was the mitigating force and those laws are immutable and unchanging. Then you were told that A Governmental Issued Piece of Paper called a Constitution, GAVE you the rights you had, and if it wasn't written in there then you didn't have it - Freewill was conveniently left out. They took credit for giving your rights you already have, but if you look very, very carefully what they did was give businesses a template to operate by, individuals are not included here.

So the TPTB set up a system, were an authority that they choose (god, science, government) will be the arbitrator of you, since you don't believe you have Freewill anyway, what does it matter?

Next up, the programming. A computer is only as good as its programming. The computer, as it sits with not OS is simply potential. You are the same. When born, you are nothing more then a ball of potential. As you can't do much for yourself, you rely on those around you to program you. They do, they program you with what they know, or think they know - and what they know is there is no Freewill. You are taught through some very sophisticated programming that you are free because god lets it happen, the government lets it happen - as long as that freedom is accounted for via the millions and millions of laws, statutes, codes, and so on you're free. From day one, tv, radio, magazines, film, religions and of course family program you to have limitations, to fit within society, to see only that is the reality that is put forth as the only option. The programming has you self limiting from the start, only to get more restrictive later on. Freewill is avoided, or put in conflict with "god's will" or "fate."

Freewill Vs. Fate. They purveyors of the idea what Freewill does not exist will often trot out the if there is either Freewill or Fate strawman to demonstrate the absence of Freewill. There is no conflict, as the moments of choice, or the execution of Freewill, are NOT where you think they are. Many choices you have made in the way past are coming to fruition now. A man to gets cancer in his 40's says "I would never choose this..." but alas, when he chose to get a vaccination 20 years earlier to take a trip to Africa he did choose cancer, as the vaccine had a cancer virus in it. He forget, or was misinformed when he got the jab. Think of Freewill and Fate this way. You go to an amusement park and decide to ride the big coaster. The decision to go to the park was an execution of Freewill, the decision to wait on line for two hours, an execution of Freewill, the decision to get strapped into the car, Freewill, but once the coaster starts = Fate. You have accepted the ride and cannot simply execute your Freewill again until the ride is over.

Many of the choices you make are experiences that take a long time to come to fruition. Having a child is a lifetime of experience made by using your Freewill to have a moments worth of sex.

Back to TPTB, they all know this. Read the threads by Protoplasmic Traveler, Daddio, Jean Paul Theroux and others who point out how the birth certificate factors into this. Your Freewill is actually usurped by the deals made when you are born and that document is filed. It is the way in which you are forced to abide by the millions and millions of laws. The laws are not really laws, but business codes that dictate what businesses can do, you as a business that is established through your BC, are obliged to follow the codes. Why? Because a natural human being IS Freewill, and can only CHOOSE to follow those rules if they wish. Please do not add the standard programming here that says there will be anarchy without the rules, this is true only because TPTB have programmed the robots of the world to become dysfunctional without the rules, but the rules would not be needed if everyone understood Freewill. Often people make the argument in favor of abondoning Freewill because if it were here in full form then everyone would loot, this is PTB programming trick that is not true. The conflict will happen if half the people wish to defer to god, gov, or science as their overlord and half the people access the Freewill. That said those who access the Freewill at that level will simply vacate the planet.

A last word on Freewill. You do not get it, it is not given to you, what happens is the more self aware you become the more you see what that is. Truly powerful people, beings, humans and the like are not actually powerful at all, they simply are able to access more of their Freewill because they are more self aware. Dogs have no Freewill, they are not self aware, a rock even less, but a human can have access to quite a bit if they are self aware enough to know this is the goal.

You are so powerful when you are beyond the rules and limitations TPTB put forth getting you to give up your Freewill to be here. Is this planet really worth giving that up for?

The best technique I have come up with to understand the power of Freewill is this. For three weeks, stop and say to yourself internally, before you do anything: "I am choosing this." There is no having chosen, or will choose, there is only CHOOSING, you are always in the act of choosing. When you cry, notice you are CHOOSING to cry, when you eat, you are CHOOSING to eat, when you are suffering from cancer you are CHOOSING cancer and to suffer. When you are running, you are CHOOSING to run, when you are sleeping, you are CHOOSING that too. There is nothing that you do that you are not choosing, you just don't see it that way. Become empowered in three weeks by simply seeing you are FREEWILL!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers

Also, just imagine how costly college is now. People paying off student loans until Star Treks to other planets.
In my next life, I'm gonna choose a wealthy daddy.

.....sure I'd love to go outside and run down the street with nothing but a hat on...it's just that....well...I don't do that. Could be children outside or old people. People don't want to see that!! And I have to respect that......because I live in a society.

My "free will" is being restrained!! But my point is:

Society has rules, social rules, moral rules, ethical rules etc. The bigger the community, the more rules....

Want "free will"? Create a one-man society...

Peace

Originally posted by hmdphantom
I am called an educated person. I have reached a place where majority of people like to achieve. I know that I don't have too much but I think that I am efficient person. when I decided to get a new job , I understood that I don't have much choices as I thought I had. then I had a... (etc)

If you are so educated, you should be using a capital letter after a full stop. Just a thought, but it makes it easier to read.

We do have free will. I live as I will and am both constrained, hobbled and enriched by the decisions I have made and also by the decisions (free will) of others. I don't think TPTB are all they are cracked up to be. Perhaps I am just less paranoid. What has TPTH got to do with free will anyway?

Regards

reply to post by Hindenburg


You are so right!! I grew up on my Grandparents farm while my Mom worked third shift. Granted!! it was hard work. There was always something that had to be done every hour of the day.
Feed the animals, Pigs, chickens, ducks, cows, and one old mule that used to be hitched to a plow before the tractors came in. Lots of barn cats and several dogs.
Gather the eggs everyday, helped in the gardens, And slaughter time with the pigs and even a cow. Also chopping the head off chickens for supper time. I never did chop off a head!! Really hated all that and still do. Probably the biggest reason I became vegetarian!
Then there was all the canning of the vegetables, and bringing in the hay for the animals. Never ending.
We fished out of the pond my grandparents had and even sometimes went to the Water Spring about a half mile in the woods to bring back some really good water.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx

 

when it comes to education I have lots of questions.

do you want to teach what ever they wish ?
is the system healthy ?
is it gonna work for others ?
can students claim what they think ?
will they pass the exam if they write their own idea ?
does the edu system care about creativity ? do you care ?
can the student choose between the courses they pass ?
will your class be efficient ?
will anyone be as much worthy as he\she has knowledge ?
how much are they forced to choose the course ?

Teaching, for me, would be a way to continue my education. Like participating in a fellowship. And I'd much rather not teach... but I do realize that I have to make a living.

As for your questions... I'm not exactly an expert on the public education system. I mean, I even attended a private college. But I'll do the best I can to answer them.

1. Do I want to teach whatever they wish? Who are "they"? You mean, mainstream? When it comes to philosophy and theology, a lot of what is taught is classical knowledge... not modern ideals. Of course modern problems come up, and when they do... I wouldn't sugarcoat anything. Nothing should be out of bounds when it comes to intellectual debate.

2. Is what system healthy? The education system? When it comes to public education and K-12... probably not. It also depends on where one lives. If you live in a wealthy suburb, the public education offered is probably of a better quality than if you live in a poor inner city environment. So of course, that's not a healthy system.

3. Is it going to work for others? I have no idea what that question is even asking.

4.Can the students speak their mind? Of course. In my experience (in college), it was the students who questioned and argued with the teacher the most that were the most admired by the teacher.

5. They'll pass the exam if they answer the questions correctly... xP

6. Yes, the higher educational system does care about creativity. Being different is what highlights your abilities to others. When it comes to K-12 public school... no, they couldn't care less about creativity.

7. Wait... can the student choose between the courses they pass? I don't know what you're asking here. Are you saying, can they choose the courses they attend? Yes. But whether there is a core curriculum on top of that or not is up to the individual institution.

8. Will my class my efficient? It depends on what you mean by efficiency. I haven't even thought much about any specific class I would teach, but now that I think of it.... my ideal class to teach would be one in which readings are assigned and the class time is spent debating and discussing the relevance of said readings to the overall theme of the class.

9. I don't know what you mean by this question in the slightest. Are you asking if people will be judged based on what they know and don't know? Maybe... I can't begin to even formulate an answer for such an ambiguous question.

10. Forced to choose the course, like the class? Or forced to choose the course, as in the direction? If it's the first, it depends on the college. If I end up teaching a core course, then yes... students will be "forced" (in a sense) to take the course. If it's an elective, then the students are there by choice.
If you mean forced to choose the direction they end up taking in the learning process... no one can force that on a student. By the time ones in college, one should be able to draw one's own conclusions based on the material assigned. Unless of course it's the sciences, those are usually pretty cut and dry.

Good thread and good question for this forum. Lots of heady answer here, and some are curt and funny, stars to them,

Myself, no, I don't believe in free will. In reality things are far more complicated and convoluted than that. Too many people have to be involved for my free will to be succesful. In the '70's and '80s I did my share of mind altering drugs. One of the most prominant experiences was how everyhting is already "perfec"t. Has anybody else had that experience? This doesn't make sense in reality because everything is really f&%$#d up. But, is that how it's supposed to be? Is life the classroom? If so, then there isn't free will but cause and effect, and learning from the reaction.

As for me, I have worked for 35+ years as a waitress. Last August I was diagnosed with a torn achilles heal, tendonosis and planter's faceitous, not good news for a waitress. My doctor told me to find a new career.

I liked waiting tables as it is a service job, everybody has to eat and you meet all kinds of people. It worked with my family life and schedule and made me feel like a member of society. What I liked most about waitressing was that you actually live off the generosity of others. A very nice touch.

Now I find myself looking to my childhood and what I wanted to be when I "grew up." An archeologist or psychiatrist were my goals. I didn't have the grades for college but II understand now that I wouldn't have fit in in either of those careers because I wouldn't want to hide the truth or medicate the public. So it came down to what did I like to do as a child.

I am learning about website management and trying to start a home based arts and crafts business. among other things, I'm makng imaginative private play areas for children. This isn't free will but necessity. Life is necessity.

Well, I have an exaggeration of talents.
I am in perfect health and I heal very quickly.
I have superior then normal intelligence.
I have very good verbal skills but my lowest quality in my whole, is written communication.
I believe in love and I tend a lot more to the positive side of thinking.
I look pretty good, I've heard gorgeous a lot of times but I think it's subjective.
I adapt and learn extremely quick.
I'm good to everyone, even strangers.

They say in life, if you really want something, you will get it.
Some say in life we have free will.

Well I say my life has been a piece of $^#@ since I NEVER got anything I really wanted. Not once, even the most trivial things. If I really want something, win something, meet someone, do something, go out with someone...it just doesn't happen. Never did. I don't see how it's possible, to have such bad karma. Even my close friends know : "Oh, he's so not lucky."

It's like, I just went totally on the wrong path and nothing is showing me how to get back on. I know I'm here for something, I just feel it. I have too much potential to do nothing good with it.

Everything in my life seems to be blocked by a maleficent being watching over me, making sure I don't succeed.
So, sadly I don't believe in free will. I hope life will make me change my mind about this one day.

Balance in all things

Originally posted by User8911
Well, I have an exaggeration of talents.
I am in perfect health and I heal very quickly.
I have superior then normal intelligence.
I have very good verbal skills but my lowest quality in my whole, is written communication.
I believe in love and I tend a lot more to the positive side of thinking.
I look pretty good, I've heard gorgeous a lot of times but I think it's subjective.
I adapt and learn extremely quick.
I'm good to everyone, even strangers.

SOME (this used to say Most) people would gladly suffer the above
while suffering the below

Well I say my life has been a piece of $^#@ since I NEVER got anything I really wanted. Not once, even the most trivial things. If I really want something, win something, meet someone, do something, go out with someone...it just doesn't happen. Never did. I don't see how it's possible, to have such bad karma. Even my close friends know : "Oh, he's so not lucky."

If you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got.

::clicks edit out of free will::

reply to post by Forevever


Yeah I guess it could be worst. I'm really lucky to be who I am and it's not like my life is terrible, just not what I'm aiming for

Sometimes I feel like, when I was talking to god to decide my stats in life, I had this argument :

"Hey God, you know...I think with talent, you don't need luck. So ill get good stats, but no luck to prove you luck is overrated!"

You just can't win against God

I have a couple of things to say to you my friend:

1. Quit Whining, worrying, and wasting your life!
2. Argue for your limitations, and you will always win!
3. The only thing holding you back is your belief in obstacles.
4. Never pass up a Free Meal, A Free Drink or a Free Umbrella!
5.The difference between Karma and Free Will is that you get free will in this lifetime, you pay for that free will through Karma in the next lifetime!
6. Change ain't nothing but a broken dollar bill!
7.If you think Money, Possessions, "things" are going to make you feel happy and secure, quit thinking and start drinking(see point number 4) You will have a more rewarding time!
8. Never live to work or work to live. They both are oxymorons!
9. Luck is when preparation meets opportunity.
10. GOD is always watching and will always protect you but lock the doors on your Toyota!

Free Will or Free Won't, does it really matter??

reply to post by User8911

yeah don't stress so much over the point system
beauty fades, minds fade....
what really matters in the end is how you played the game
and so what if you lose - did you do it with style?

TPTB want to erase your freewill and what is the purpose of this thread?