Do moral values survive after the SHTF?

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by r3axion

 

Yes, we kill for gains, which is exactly what matters when you're in a desperate situation, as I have been consistently pointing out.

Not everyone does that.. only those who can't rise above the base carnal nature of themselves..

There have been people who have starved themselves to death to protest war..

There have been people who have prayed to god to forgive their attackers as they are being murdered, without fighting back..

You cannot speak for all souls in all circumstances..and it is foolish to pretend you can based on a few examples...there are other examples.. many.. people giving up their own food so others could eat.. people giving their own life so others could live.

It happens.. and will continue to happen with and for the people who carry a higher standard of interaction with their fellow human beings

And they all die.

I'm not speaking for your 'soul,' do as you please but don't expect people to have mercy for you. it's darwinism at work.

reply to post by r3axion

And they all die. I'm not speaking for your 'soul,' do as you please but don't expect people to have mercy for you. it's darwinism at work.

I would rather die in the flesh, than have my soul die.

I would rather die in the flesh, than to become an attacking ruthless zombie bent on surviving.

Surviving for what?

To be attacking others and turning into some sort of savage.. yeah.. right.. you go ahead and survive so you can live like that.. that is not life.. that is hell on earth .

Morales and integrity go out the window in an absolute survival situation, people have been known to eat each other to stay alive. I see no less difference in the people in those stories than anybody on the edge of starvation in the modern world. People are people. Stock up on bullets.

reply to post by gabby2011


You're welcome to become a victim. Good luck.

Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by spy66

 

Wrong yet again.

Ever heard of the Neanderthals? There is scientific evidence that groups of Neanderthals were murdered and eaten by other groups of Neanderthals. There is also evidence that Homo sapiens killed Neanderthals, so it's entirely within probability that you would not exist today if people did not kill one another. Homo Sapiens were prevalent because we had a slighter edge on intelligence.

Yes, we kill for gains, which is exactly what matters when you're in a desperate situation, as I have been consistently pointing out.

edit on 27-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)

You can't possibly understand fundamentals of survival if this is how you look at it.

When the S really HTF? I don't think anybody can know for sure.

reply to post by spy66


I understand the fundamentals of survival lol. It's part of my training.

My whole point throughout this thread is if it's NEEDED you will kill another person. I don't mean kill someone for the hell of it.

Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by spy66

 

I understand the fundamentals of survival lol. It's part of my training.

My whole point throughout this thread is if it's NEEDED you will kill another person. I don't mean kill someone for the hell of it.

edit on 28-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)

Well i have been doing survival training since 1991, with the navy and privately, and i know your wrong.

First of; killing is more of a personal choice than a needed choice. There are many choices you have besides killing.

If you rule out killing for the basis of your survival, You will find out that you actually have a lot of other choices. But your choices depend on your survival mentality and skills. This also applies with a aggressor being part of the survival. If you take a ski trip to the North Pole and encounter Polar Bears. You dont have to kill the Bears you encounter to survive. You will only kill them if you dont know what to do, and if you have the tools to make the kill. If you dont have the tools to kill the bear, You better have a plan B. To have a plan B means having the mental skills to have a plan B. That is what survival is all about.

Killing is just a choice, which is far from a necessity for survival. Survival is when you have to cope with a aggressor that wants to kill you. And You dont have to kill the aggressor to survive. You dont even have to confront the aggressor, but that depends on your personal and mental skills.

Killing mentality for survival is what is thought within military confrontations and within the police force.
That is a different ball game. Within these confrontations you are being told the rules of engagement.



Even if you die or get killed. That does not mean the end of the human race. It just means the end of you.

Survival is not about killing. Its all about not dying or being killed.

reply to post by spy66


Keep in mind this is all specifically referring to a shtf scenario where it will essentially be everyone for themselves. the last thing on people's minds will be morals, it will be to look out for their own loved ones and their own benefit. don't think for a second someone won't try to loot you for your weapons/food first. that's much easier to someone panicked with no survival experience. we won't have a bunch of pros running rampant, we will have average joes who have lived under the comforting blanket of modern society for so long that they don't know what to do. this is where the instincts i'm talking about will come in.

I'm not in any way saying it's RIGHT, just that it's reality

reply to post by r3axion

Keep in mind this is all specifically referring to a shtf scenario where it will essentially be everyone for themselves. the last thing on people's minds will be morals, it will be to look out for their own loved ones and their own benefit. don't think for a second someone won't try to loot you for your weapons/food first. that's much easier to someone panicked with no survival experience. we won't have a bunch of pros running rampant, we will have average joes who have lived under the comforting blanket of modern society for so long that they don't know what to do. this is where the instincts i'm talking about will come in.

I'm not in any way saying it's RIGHT, just that it's reality

If a serious SHTF events takes place in our life time. There are many things you better pray for if you have a family. The first thing you better pray for is that when the SHTF. Your family better be very very close by and not injured. The same goes for you. You better pray that you are physically and mentally in shape and not sick or injured.

I am married and have two kids in their teens, I am not even sure if we will be surviving as a family if the SHTF. Because it all depends on our location when the SHTF and what the SHTF event is; and what shape we are in after.
I am not even sure if my daughter wants to survive with me and my wife, or with her boyfriend and he's family, It all depends there and then. But, if we cant communicate after the SHTF i might never find out.

Next year my daughter is moving away to go to school. Its will be at least 520 km between us. That is about a 19 to 20 days hard and constant walk. 10 days if we walk light with 17 hours intervals with 4 hours rest in between.

My daughter has never walked these 520 km like i have. She does not know what a trip like that demands of a person.

10 days is a very long time if the SHTF scenario is very serious. I might not reach her in time, and she might not even by at her apartment.

There are just so many things that have to add up if you want a SHTF scenario to go exactly has you have planned and prepared for. What do you think your odds are?

Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by gabby2011

 

You're welcome to become a victim. Good luck.

Thank you..have fun becoming the ruthless animal..hope you find lots of happiness in that role.

reply to post by spy66


I agree with what you're saying. Location is a big part of how people will react. People in rural areas will not be so quick to freak out and loot/harm people as they're already adjusted to living off of the land. For example, people in, say, Michigan (where I have family at) have most likely hunted before, know how to prepare venison, know the basics of farming, and have long distances between them and the more "modernized" towns and cities. But as for someone like me, who currently lives in the suburbs on the outskirts of a major city, things will not go so smoothly. Everyone here is used to getting all of their food and supplies from stores and they do not know the first thing outside of maybe watching Survivorman on TV. If people here feel panicked, the first thing they will do is loot the stores. Christ, just look at what happens at stores during Christmas time. People get trampled just so someone else has the chance to buy something. Now imagine if their lives felt threatened. Have you seen the movie Contagion? There's a scene where there is a huge line of people in a store waiting to get the vaccination for the virus. Turns out they didn't have enough to supply everyone. They counted out the people who would be able to get it, and told everyone else to leave. That didn't end so well for the store or the people who got trampled. Now what happens if the stores run out and people do not still have what they need? What do you think they will loot next?