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Do moral values survive after the SHTF?

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posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


When civilizations collapse, the looters die first. Eventually the looters band together and get smart. Then the survivors get smarter, band together, and exterminate the lot of them. In the end, the looters end up dead and those who keep their "morals" live on to carry the torch of civilization. Me, I don't believe in morals. But that doesn't make me a looter nor a stealer. It means that there are evil people who get shot, and good people who do the shooting.


Interesing post. Question: what makes people good or evil in your eyes? Looting and stealing is obviously evil according to your post, but what causes one to do so and not the others? Could it be morals
?
edit on 17-6-2011 by Chewingonmushrooms because: (no reason given)


I think its morals that stop people from looting and stealing. When the SHTF looters will be shot on the spot!




posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


Going to go all Christian on you, but don't worry. In the Bible the only place morals are ever mentioned is in terms of not sexing up everyone. Ergo, I don't believe in morals, as society views them, because society stamps morals on everything, whereas the Bible restrains the idea of what morals are to sex and sex alone. For everything else, Bible just says it plain as day. You don't want dumb stuff to happen to you, so don't do dumb stuff. Evil, in my eyes, therefore is reserved to people whom have lost their humanity. And such evil people are those who do not respect human life, at all ages.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


Going to go all Christian on you, but don't worry. In the Bible the only place morals are ever mentioned is in terms of not sexing up everyone. Ergo, I don't believe in morals, as society views them, because society stamps morals on everything, whereas the Bible restrains the idea of what morals are to sex and sex alone. For everything else, Bible just says it plain as day. You don't want dumb stuff to happen to you, so don't do dumb stuff. Evil, in my eyes, therefore is reserved to people whom have lost their humanity. And such evil people are those who do not respect human life, at all ages.


You know it's quite funny but I completely agree with you, even though I do not follow the bible. And you are right, it does become very hard to define morality and often at times those preaching morality are the biggest deviants. Morality should be substituted for humanity, or the golden rule (do on to others as you do on to yourself). Ethics is a better word, and even that is subjective. I dig your explaination



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


I would lose some of my morals.. most likely.

I have a tough time believing I would ever steal from someone who had no intention to harm me.. or from families with young children and such..



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms
 


When I discovered that, contrary to many many many preachers, morality is barely spoken of in the bible, and then realized it was very subjective, I had no choice but to logically dismiss morality as a reason to do or not do anything other than what the bible says. I stick to logic now. The golden rule is quite logical. Jesus was a pretty logical person if you think about it. Morality and ethics are pretty subjective, and change culture to culture. I think, but I'm not too sure yet, that logic is a constant.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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Yeah I think moral values do survive, somewhat, at least in some people. The way you imply you would act after the SHTF proves they would survive. I think at first there would be a lot of people acting immorally, but as time goes on more and more will start acting better.

It also depends on the region as well though, and the living conditions, cities would have a lot more problems than small towns and country regions, the more desperate the people, the less morality.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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Pretty much every time it has hit the fan, from Haiti to Joplin, disasters have tended to bring out the best in people not the worst. Perhaps it's a case of we're all in the same boat, or just the enormity of it dwarfs the selfish impulses, but over my lifetime disasters have always brought forth compassion, sharing, and an eagerness to help, not looting or murder. Only sociopaths tend to think that disasters give them a carte blanche to do whatever, and by exposing themselves as such, they generally are swiftly dealt with.

The greater the disaster, the greater the need for cooperation for survival, and pretty much anyone with a few active brain cells understands that their individual chances are far less than working with a group. People just don't turn on each other the way that some folks like to fantasize in order to justify their wacko desires to "rape, kill, and pillage". If you think others will turn into merciless beasts of prey I'd suggest a very long look in the mirror and some intense soul-searching to figure out why you have the desire to objectify other humans to justify what you'd like to do to them.

Morals have always survived SHTF situations, even though the sociopaths and psychopaths pop out of the woodwork thinking there's no one to stop them from acting out. Moral people always stand up to those who spurn morals and take whatever they want. It takes a little time to weed them out, but by their nature, sociopaths and psychopaths would self-defeat in any true SHTF sitX scenario, because there are really so few of them (3-5%) of any population, and sociopathy/psychopathy are genetic traits defined by a lack of compassion, thought of consequences, and excessive risk-taking. They need well-developed societies to thrive, hiding in the crowd. Without large, well-developed societies they don't do all that well.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


This is where the bible and moral values come in to play. If you were an atheist or just did not believe in a god, what would keep you from doing something awful to someone else so that you could survive? Stealing or killing etc..If you have nobody to answer to after your death then why would you care? Could there be something inside of you that keeps you from doing something to others that you would not want done to you? Of course there is! Everyone has it.However do you have the will power and the discipline to stop yourself from doing something terrible to someone else so that you would survive? It would be hard to fight the fleshly desires that we all have. The point is whether or not you have faith or a belief in a higher good, so much as death doesn't even bother you, because your faith is strong enough that you are not afraid of it. That would be hard my friends, very hard. I believe it comes down to your faith in a life after death that is better than this one. I would gladly sacrifice myself so that my loved ones would continue in life, but what about someone that is not family or a stranger? Once again it comes down to the amount of strength you have in your faith. The battle is there every day...



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:01 PM
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'Morals' is a subjective term, like 'good' or 'evil'.

There is no telling what an otherwise peaceful person might do to protect their children, or keep from starving.

The hope I have is that people start acting and being as if the S has Already Hit the Fan, before it actually happens.

Imagine how much different life would be if everyone realized that you only get this moment.

That's the point most people miss.

Your own personal S could hit the fan any moment now.

Do you wish to give, or take?

That's the only real question here.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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As long as I can shoot better then everyone else, and I can, morality is a fluid situation. Survival is what counts and if that means I have blow a hole in your head because you won't share food then that's what I will do. If I see injustice and I feel the need to stick my neck out to help somone else, then I will. Either way you won't see me coming. Shooting you in the back from 800m away that's my style. No gun fights for me.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

If I was that hungry I would hope




In that case, You would die.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Heartisblack
 


im the one ready for you.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by AusiAnarchist
 


then thats the mark everyone will learn, early on in a senario.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Nothing counts so much as Family-------The rest are just Strangers“-Nicholas Earp

Words to live by. If the SHTF, you had better be damn sure who you are helping out. If you help someone out, and they find out you have some stuff vital to survival - they will be likely temped to take your stuff.

I think those who go out of their way to help others will likely end up dead.


Look after you and yours, after that, I would only help those who have a viable skill / trade that will be an asset to my community. If you have nothing, then you will be turned away (and if you refuse to move on, well, you will be MADE to)


To be blunt, if the SHTF, you have to be ready to make hard decisions......decisions that may decide if you and your family survive - or die.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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I don't see too much morality BEFORE the SHTF...



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by modo302
 


The Bible?

Please.

The Bible teaches that people are inherently evil and incapable of governing themselves, and offers excuse after excuse to indulge in evil behavior, since it offers a "get out of hell free" card so long as you are sincerely sorry for it afterwards and accept Jesus.

About the only way I can trust Bible-thumpers is if they're securely gagged and tied to a chair.

Even then, I'd have my misgivings. Anyone blatantly Christian will get a "move along, there's nothing for you here" from me. I don't mind the small-mouth variety of Christians who actually follow the good parts, but they're scarcer than hen's teeth.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Morals will always survive in those who will survive
without morals we are just dirty stinking apes, heehee



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Morals will always survive in those who will survive
without morals we are just dirty stinking apes, heehee



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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What I'm about to say may have already been said. In fact, it may have been said hundreds of times by other posters. At any rate:

In nearly every move depicting an apocalyptic event we see humanity tear itself to shreads trying to survive. Murder, mayhem, blood and horror - every theatrical or literary depiction of this event describes humanity as falling to it's lowest with an icon or paragon striving towards some semblance of human ideal. This is a big problem. I see no reason why, in the event of a SHTF moment, that we should immediately begin cannibalizing each other - and yet that is how it's depicted we'll behave by the MSM. However, if you will notice, in moments of crisis we strive towards normalcy. We band together to ensure mutual survival because this is how we operate in our daily lives and we do this by maintaining or civility. In moments of crisis - people who may have not been giving before become giving afterwards because it helps to maintain not only that sense of civic normalcy but also provides a means of self preservation. If I have item A but have need of Item B and you need item A and no need for item B does it not make more sense to engage in a mutually beneficial partnership that could help ensure continued survival rather than try to blow each others brains out? I think that people who tend to barbaric behavior will not last long in a SHTF event. They'll be outcast and left to support their own survival.

Now consider this. As I write this post I'm watching my state news program...it's chock full of incidents of people being brutal to eachother. If you turn on your nightly news you'll no doubt see similar stories of people brutalizing people. However, think back over the past 10 years in your daily experience - how many times did you witness incidents of brutality? How many times did you see someone shoot another person to death or engage in another destructive act as you were walking down the street going about your daily business? For my part - I saw zero such incidents and I'm willing to bet that the vast vast majority of you can say the same thing. My point is that we are conditioned to be terrified of each other despite any immediate evidence that we should be. So, when and if the SHTF, band together and let that moment demonstrate exactly how civilized we're capable of being.



posted on Jun, 17 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by WickedStar
 


You must live in a nice, rural neighborhood. I have seen many acts of violence, being in a medium sized city. If we experience a SHTF, I wouldn't be surprised to see urban areas tear themselves apart.
edit on 17-6-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)



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