Do moral values survive after the SHTF?

Claiming you'll have morals right now does not mean you will if SHTF. If you are put into a situation in which you will die if you don't steal someone's food, shelter, or something important along those lines, believe me, you will. You will even kill for it.

Men are still animals. We have been conditioned to have morals by a civilized modern society. If we are forced to our old ways of survival, our primitive side will prevail. It's a defense mechanism that you can't find your way around because it's part of our chemistry and the way our brains work.

Factions (packs) will be created, and there will be conflict between any "outsiders" who have anything a pack can benefit from.

Having this sort of moral mentality in a situation like that is dangerous. It's a beta male trait. You will be taken advantage of/hurt/killed by an alpha.

Originally posted by r3axion
Claiming you'll have morals right now does not mean you will if SHTF. If you are put into a situation in which you will die if you don't steal someone's food, shelter, or something important along those lines, believe me, you will. You will even kill for it.

Men are still animals. We have been conditioned to have morals by a civilized modern society. If we are forced to our old ways of survival, our primitive side will prevail. It's a defense mechanism that you can't find your way around because it's part of our chemistry and the way our brains work.

Factions (packs) will be created, and there will be conflict between any "outsiders" who have anything a pack can benefit from.

Having this sort of moral mentality in a situation like that is dangerous. It's a beta male trait. You will be taken advantage of/hurt/killed by an alpha.

edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)

if that pertained to people today, the cities wouldve erupted into chaos years ago

everyday they take a little bit from us, and no one does anything about it. several countries have already disarmed their populace. theyll do it here in the us and no one will do anything then either. make no mistake, we are fighting for survival right now.

reply to post by Question Fate


Trust me, it pertains to people today. That side of people is still there and well alive. Heard of war crimes?

When people are forced into a situation like we are speaking of, they become a different person. All it takes is for some people to start it and it's a domino effect.

for example
"well if they're looting, I better loot too otherwise I won't be able to get what I need"

You see protests starting to kick up all around the world. Eventually there will be a point where people get violent.

reply to post by camaro68ss


If enough people get killed; like 99% of the world population, their might be hope for a new moral standard to start over. But only for a short while.
We humans are very badly tempered, greedy, selfish and evil minded. So no matter how the SHTF goes. History will most likely repeat its self. Especially with our age, people in this age dont really know how to survive.

A person from the UK just died after 4 week in the Scottish Highlands, He's goal was to last a year in the field. I guess he watched to much Bear grills on TV, and found out that watching survival on TV is not the same as the real thing. This person froze to death in the end, he did not starve to death

A hungry human; is a very dangerous human. I feel most sorry for the Americans who worship the Darwinism mentality. That mentality is going to get a lot of good people killed.

reply to post by spy66

A hungry human; is a very dangerous human. I feel most sorry for the Americans who worship the Darwinism mentality. That mentality is going to get a lot of good people killed

I feel the same way. It's like a cancer of the mind that will make people act barbaric because they believe others will also. Similar to preemptive war, it a automatically negative view point counter to assessing each situation rationally. If I see a stranger as a potential killer (which he may or may not be) then that will affect my actions most likely in a negative way. Not to say singing cumbia is the way to go about it either, but if you see your world as survival of the fittest then your world will provide that scenario for you in a self fulfilling way.

reply to post by camaro68ss

it is easy to say what you would do from behind a computer screen. if i was ever in a shtf event i do what i have to do to take care of my family , then worry about the morality of it later.

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

it is easy to say what you would do from behind a computer screen. if i was ever in a shtf event i do what i have to do to take care of my family , then worry about the morality of it later.

That is what they all say. But what ever you do it will affect the mentality of your family as well. They might even want you gone just because of the unjustified actions you do against others. Your family might not share the same views on survival as you do. And that might cost you everything.

It is always better to think before you act. Because your actions can also kill your family.

reply to post by spy66

That is what they all say. But what ever you do it will affect the mentality of your family as well. They might even want you gone just because of the unjustified actions you do against others. Your family might not share the same views on survival as you do. And that might cost you everything. It is always better to think before you act. Because your actions can also kill your family.

wow.. so very very true... Not only could it happen physically because of retaliation, but spiritually and emotionally they die on the inside, lose respect for their parent, and really want no part in surviving in a world with no morality ... no love and caring for their fellow humans.

It already is happening to some degree, which can be backed up by the amount of depression we see in our youth.

reply to post by r3axion

Having this sort of moral mentality in a situation like that is dangerous. It's a beta male trait. You will be taken advantage of/hurt/killed by an alpha.

This life is only a blurp within the context of eternity.

What do I want my spirit to have for eternity ? Love, compassion, caring, forgiveness.

We are not just animals meant to survive and survival of the fittest is what it is all about.

We are human beings with souls, with hearts, that need love in order to truly enjoy existence.

Existence goes far beyond what we experience in this life.

Jesus taught us to not care for the things of this world, but to care for heavenly virtues, and for eternal life. Better to try and live by these virtues, and have them for eternal life, than to resort to living like a selfish wild beast, so that you can have a few more years on this earth.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

it is easy to say what you would do from behind a computer screen. if i was ever in a shtf event i do what i have to do to take care of my family , then worry about the morality of it later.

That is what they all say. But what ever you do it will affect the mentality of your family as well. They might even want you gone just because of the unjustified actions you do against others. Your family might not share the same views on survival as you do. And that might cost you everything.

It is always better to think before you act. Because your actions can also kill your family.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

sorry, i always think before i act; that is one of my best qualities. i claim that is why my wife and i have been married for so long ; i think before i act. but if i were in a situation that it was the safety of my family and some one trying to harm them, that person would go down. if the situation was my family go hungry or cold or become sick or me have to steal to prevent that i would do it. would i feel bad if it effected some one else yes but if it came down to it my family comes first. i would not try and put someone else and their family in a desperate situation but in the end my family would come first. I am sorry if you don't understand or condone that action

reply to post by jed001


There is nothing wrong with what you are saying and everyone would do the same if put in the same situation. But instead of getting to that point of "if I have to I will" why not try and find other ways beforehand by pulling resources and connecting with other families to form a community the benefits everyone and lessens the possibility of the first scenario?

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
reply to post by jed001

 

There is nothing wrong with what you are saying and everyone would do the same if put in the same situation. But instead of getting to that point of "if I have to I will" why not try and find other ways beforehand by pulling resources and connecting with other families to form a community the benefits everyone and lessens the possibility of the first scenario?

thank you . my first goal would be to do what you suggested and use the other scenario only if it was the last means

Originally posted by jed001

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

it is easy to say what you would do from behind a computer screen. if i was ever in a shtf event i do what i have to do to take care of my family , then worry about the morality of it later.

That is what they all say. But what ever you do it will affect the mentality of your family as well. They might even want you gone just because of the unjustified actions you do against others. Your family might not share the same views on survival as you do. And that might cost you everything.

It is always better to think before you act. Because your actions can also kill your family.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

sorry, i always think before i act; that is one of my best qualities. i claim that is why my wife and i have been married for so long ; i think before i act. but if i were in a situation that it was the safety of my family and some one trying to harm them, that person would go down. if the situation was my family go hungry or cold or become sick or me have to steal to prevent that i would do it. would i feel bad if it effected some one else yes but if it came down to it my family comes first. i would not try and put someone else and their family in a desperate situation but in the end my family would come first. I am sorry if you don't understand or condone that action

In a survival situation most people don't die from starvation or by some one else's hand. They die from illnesses, hypothermia or from injuries caused by a different type of lifestyle in a different environment which their bodies are not used to.

But imagine when +- 309 million Americans run out of town to live of nature. You can imagine how tough your struggle will be when they are all armed to their ears.

Just imagine the resources +- 309 million people consume 3 times a day. I feel sorry for the farmers, they are probably going to be first to die from some one who will do everything for him self and he's family. People would kill him for the life stalk and plunder everything they come over. They would kill him for trying to protect what is he's.

People today dont know what values a farmer would have in a SHTF scenario. So they would most likely kill him for short time resources.

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by jed001

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by jed001
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

it is easy to say what you would do from behind a computer screen. if i was ever in a shtf event i do what i have to do to take care of my family , then worry about the morality of it later.

That is what they all say. But what ever you do it will affect the mentality of your family as well. They might even want you gone just because of the unjustified actions you do against others. Your family might not share the same views on survival as you do. And that might cost you everything.

It is always better to think before you act. Because your actions can also kill your family.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

sorry, i always think before i act; that is one of my best qualities. i claim that is why my wife and i have been married for so long ; i think before i act. but if i were in a situation that it was the safety of my family and some one trying to harm them, that person would go down. if the situation was my family go hungry or cold or become sick or me have to steal to prevent that i would do it. would i feel bad if it effected some one else yes but if it came down to it my family comes first. i would not try and put someone else and their family in a desperate situation but in the end my family would come first. I am sorry if you don't understand or condone that action

In a survival situation most people don't die from starvation or by some one else's hand. They die from illnesses, hypothermia or from injuries caused by a different type of lifestyle in a different environment which their bodies are not used to.

But imagine when +- 309 million Americans run out of town to live of nature. You can imagine how tough your struggle will be when they are all armed to their ears.

Just imagine the resources +- 309 million people consume 3 times a day. I feel sorry for the farmers, they are probably going to be first to die from some one who will do everything for him self and he's family. People would kill him for the life stalk and plunder everything they come over. They would kill him for trying to protect what is he's.

if the SHTF i am not going to wander through the woods cold unarmed and naked. and if it came down to it i would first try and cooperate with any farmer or local resident before just whacking them

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by r3axion

 

Having this sort of moral mentality in a situation like that is dangerous. It's a beta male trait. You will be taken advantage of/hurt/killed by an alpha.

This life is only a blurp within the context of eternity.

What do I want my spirit to have for eternity ? Love, compassion, caring, forgiveness.

We are not just animals meant to survive and survival of the fittest is what it is all about.

We are human beings with souls, with hearts, that need love in order to truly enjoy existence.

Existence goes far beyond what we experience in this life.

Jesus taught us to not care for the things of this world, but to care for heavenly virtues, and for eternal life. Better to try and live by these virtues, and have them for eternal life, than to resort to living like a selfish wild beast, so that you can have a few more years on this earth.

Look, you can argue what ever view point you want, but the fact of the matter is we would not have survived up until this point in time without the kill or be killed mentality. This is found everywhere in nature, and to think you are any more special than the rest of nature is absurd. Morals were created by society and fictitious books, and will be torn away if we are ever forced into a situation without modern comforts. Our basic instincts are to survive, reproduce, and love our family. Have you ever felt intimidated by someone in your life? Do you know why that is? You can deny the roots of humanity and cover it up with all the love/compassion you want, but that doesn't make instinct disappear.

reply to post by r3axion

Look, you can argue what ever view point you want, but the fact of the matter is we would not have survived up until this point in time without the kill or be killed mentality.

Actually this is not true. We have not survived because of our kill or be killed mentality.
Not when referred to human killing humans. But maybe by killing animals for food, clothing and tools.

We humans dont have to kill the weak to be able to survive. Nature will take care of the once who can't cope if the younger and stronger individuals can't manage to give support.

But we have been killing other humans for a gain, ideas, visions and fortune, not for survival.

I personally think that’s messed up to loot and steal. Those people came prepared and you have the guts to steal from them and deny them of life because you were not prepared. I couldn’t do it. If I was that hungry I would hope they would have the same integrity as myself and spear a little food rather than steal it. what are your thoughts

reply to post by camaro68ss



I agree with you OP. I would rather starve to death with morals, then live like a ravaging beast. If SHTF I won't steal or kill anyone not endangering me or my loved ones. And who knows if there is a god, then maybe I will get to roll across the countryside, under gods protection, like Denszel Washington in "The book of Eli" haha, or if not then I will die, but then if the whole world loses it's morals and lives like raving beasts, it's not really world worth living in anymore anyway.

reply to post by r3axion

Look, you can argue what ever view point you want, but the fact of the matter is we would not have survived up until this point in time without the kill or be killed mentality. This is found everywhere in nature, and to think you are any more special than the rest of nature is absurd. Morals were created by society and fictitious books, and will be torn away if we are ever forced into a situation without modern comforts. Our basic instincts are to survive, reproduce, and love our family. Have you ever felt intimidated by someone in your life? Do you know why that is? You can deny the roots of humanity and cover it up with all the love/compassion you want, but that doesn't make instinct disappear.

The day I start teaching my children to plunder and murder just for food ..is the day I would rather me and my whole family be murdered, so our spirits could escape that brutal mentality.

My natural instinct is not to do whatever it takes to feed myself and my family... there are limits .. and I would sooner than die than resort to serious immorality.

If you think its a fine and good to steal and murder just to survive, than you go ahead and survive in that that way.. for how ever long it lasts..

I believe there is much more to our lives than what this planet holds, and the day I see my children resorting to that base of an extinct that they would kill others just to eat, is the day that I will die inside , and want to die in the flesh.

Now if they kill because they are protecting themselves or others from being killed , that is different.. but if they are just killing to get what others have.. then they deserve to be killed by those they are trying to kill... to unjustly steal their food.

reply to post by spy66


Wrong yet again.

Ever heard of the Neanderthals? There is scientific evidence that groups of Neanderthals were murdered and eaten by other groups of Neanderthals. There is also evidence that Homo sapiens killed Neanderthals, so it's entirely within probability that you would not exist today if people did not kill one another. Homo Sapiens were prevalent because we had a slighter edge on intelligence.

Yes, we kill for gains, which is exactly what matters when you're in a desperate situation, as I have been consistently pointing out.

reply to post by r3axion

Yes, we kill for gains, which is exactly what matters when you're in a desperate situation, as I have been consistently pointing out.

Not everyone does that.. only those who can't rise above the base carnal nature of themselves..

There have been people who have starved themselves to death to protest war..

There have been people who have prayed to god to forgive their attackers as they are being murdered, without fighting back..

You cannot speak for all souls in all circumstances..and it is foolish to pretend you can based on a few examples...there are other examples.. many.. people giving up their own food so others could eat.. people giving their own life so others could live.

It happens.. and will continue to happen with and for the people who carry a higher standard of interaction with their fellow human beings