Coal Powered Plants Prepare To Close - Jobs Lost, Rates to Rise!

The bankrupting of the coal industry is one phase of the Obama/Gore Cap and Trade scheme. They stand to make billions from the oppressive taxes that will be levied on you and me.

in a way this is so stupid...
the coal is there!!! how far would they have to import oil to burn to generate electricity!!
any excess pollution that is resulting from the fact that they are burning coal more than likely is offset by the fact that it is traveling a short distance to get to the plant!!!
and ya, there may be geothermal or alternatives, but are they developed enough to take up the slack of the plant (I believe it's only one closing, could be wrong there)?? I doubt it, and I doubt if there will be an alternative anytime in the future.
and the sad fact is, alot, I am tempted to say most, of our electricity in the US is powered by coal!!!

In my opinion, West virginia should be exempt, since like I said, there is probably less pollution involved when you take into accout that the alternatives either aren't available (wind, geothermal, ect), or well, will need to be transported and thus will create more pollution in totality!

reply to post by Kitilani

post removed by staff

Nice try. This is part of Obama's scheme to nationalize the energy industry and implement Cap and Trade. He couldn't care less about air quality, or else he would be pressuring China and India to implement the same "standards" he is forcing on us. Currently they are giving us the One Finger Salute over the issue.

I believe what will happen in the western world is all coal fired power stations will be phased out over the mext twenty years.
Natural gas will will be used as the fuel to spin the turbines.
The coal WILL NOT BE LEFT IN THE GROUND.
It will be exported to CHINA AND INDIA where coal fired power stations are being built in order to derve some two and a half billion souls and their ever increasing appetite for consuming electricity.

So the Earth will be more polluted than it has ever been, whilst Fracking is implemented on a huge scale poisoning our water supply and wiping out tracts of crop producing lands.

Why then?

The powerful will hold the carbon emission credits which they will sell to India and China .....and make oceans full of money.
It is very very simple.

reply to post by dawnstar

in a way this is so stupid...
the coal is there!!! how far would they have to import oil to burn to generate electricity!!
any excess pollution that is resulting from the fact that they are burning coal more than likely is offset by the fact that it is traveling a short distance to get to the plant!!!
and ya, there may be geothermal or alternatives, but are they developed enough to take up the slack of the plant (I believe it's only one closing, could be wrong there)?? I doubt it, and I doubt if there will be an alternative anytime in the future.
and the sad fact is, alot, I am tempted to say most, of our electricity in the US is powered by coal!!!

In my opinion, West virginia should be exempt, since like I said, there is probably less pollution involved when you take into accout that the alternatives either aren't available (wind, geothermal, ect), or well, will need to be transported and thus will create more pollution in totality!

The article cites five plants in WVA. And WVA is not the only state affected; there are several others.

Cap and Trade, and gov control (nationalization) of the energy industry is what this is all about.

You make some good points about the pollution generated by using other sources of energy.

there's a sixth, at least, here in va....the article I just read put the number a 11 in all...

got to tell ya something though...
AEP is our power company. year after year, they have hiked up the rates....legally they could do this, and then get the okay for the rate hike from the state gov't, and well, the got' would strike it down, and then they'd have to pay the money back...this happened at least two times, probably more, but I really haven't been here that lone...
then I do believe the gov't decided that they'd have to get the gov't to okay the hike before they could start collecting the money.,
which makes me wonder, how much of this belly aching is for real, and how much of it is aimed to get the state to give them their rate hike this year....
still say though, weather you are talkin about natural gas, or oil, or bio fuel, or even wind or solar, but the time you consider the cost of transporting you need into the area (which, by the way, is quit hilly and mountainous, well, you are gonna offset any savings in pollution you would get by forcing them to stop burning their coal...
just let them burn their coal......what the heck, probably ain't throwing in as much greeenhouse gases into the air as all those planes flying back and forth to all those stupid conferences they have to connive newer and better ways to make us all miserable in the name of greenness!!!

the only ones who I would listen to as far as gripes about our using coal are the people living in the region who are having their mountains blown up and boulders raining down around them!!! they have a valid gripe, they are being poisoned!!!

reply to post by dawnstar

the only ones who I would listen to as far as gripes about our using coal are the people living in the region who are having their mountains blown up and boulders raining down around them!!! they have a valid gripe, they are being poisoned!!!

Another weird thing, from several years back.....there was an underground coal fire somewhere in WVA that was poisoning the air...strange! I forget all the details, or how it started, but it made an entire town move, if I remember.

Geothermal is a great source of energy. geothermal power can be drilled for in your own back yard. Ever see a house with its own geothermal setup, I have it's very nice. Many homes in the U.S. could have there own Geothermal energy for about 50K . AlGores is a little over the top, then again most of us don't have 10,000 square foot homes. This is why power companies want to strap us down to coal and other delivered sources. I planning to do my home sometime in the near future with geothermal energy.

Now on this Obama energy, he is creating a crises and it is purposeful to say the least. It has nothing to do with green energy. once you find a replacement for oil, maybe I might start believing in this green stuff. but for now there is no replacement. Windmills and solar panels are not a sustainable energy source. Coal is going to be around for while and like most have stated, It's cheap.

Oh, and those green energy jobs. Who is teaching these green energy jobs. I know one guy with PHD in this field and he cannot find a job in this field to teach it. So everything our commander and chief has stated is nothing but lies and deception. As a matter of fact there are some European companies looking to buy up the soon to be bankrupt energy companies in the U.S. ,This from the PHD guy I know. and guess what, they still plan to use COAL !

All this is , is Obama's EPA trying to get cap-and-trade through the back door, so much for green.

Investors.com

Not one mention of geothermal power , but a good a good article on this current EPA regulations going on.

"Contrary to peak-oil promoters and other pooh-pooh-ers of American potential, our country is rich in energy resources. These include 1.2 trillion barrels of oil, 2,500 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 486 billion short tons of coal — plenty to power millions of jobs and trillions of dollars in economic output for hundreds of years. Policies that prevent their extraction defy logic."

From the OP's Video link.


Obama " Solar, Wind and Bio Diesel are alternatives energy sources" what he did not mention is that solar and wind are not sustainable, and bio diesel is still an expensive process.

And the Big one. " If someone want to build a coal power plant they can, It's just that it will Bankrupt them"

Promise kept.

reply to post by mishigas

that one sound like "Silent Hill" the movie, I believe that was what it was called...
if that is what you are talking about Silent Hill is indeed in W. Va....or maybe VA, but well, the story was based on a true event that took place, I believe in PA.....

but there are quite a few abandoned towns in w. va that were abandoned, or close to it, as a result of disasters involving coal mining....
and well, the first week I was here where I am living, I bought a newpaper, to hunt for an apartment, and on the front page was a story about a little boy being crushed as he slept at night, a boulder that was dislodged by the mountain crew (blowing the tops off of mountains) came crashing down into his bedroom....

Why is coal so 'cheap'? Could it be the hundreds of billions of dollars the federal government gives to the industry each year? Probably! Don't like it? Buy a heat pump and some solar panels. Then you don't have to pay some corporate fat cat your hard earned money AND you get the subsidy instead of an already profitable business!

Federal Coal Subsidies

Harvard did a study recently that projected up to coal costing us $500 billion annually!

In terms of human health, the report estimates $74.6 billion a year in public health burdens in Appalachian communities, with a majority of the impact resulting from increased healthcare costs, injury and death. Emissions of air pollution and coal account for $187.5 billion, mercury impacts as high as $29.3 billion, and climate contributions from combustion between $61.7 and $205.8 billion. Heavy metal toxins and carcinogens released during processing pollute water and food sources and are linked to long-term health problems. Mining, transportation, and combustion of coal contribute to poor air quality and respiratory disease, while the risky nature of mining coal results in death and injury for workers.

It is cheap, there is an abundance of it, it is easily transportable...

So is meth, I'm not jumping to save that industry though.

Maybe the rates should rise...maybe you should have options in your energy generation. Maybe, instead of insisting that renewable energy is a bad thing, we should invest and promote in manufacturers here!

Oil and gas garnered 60 percent of an estimated total of $725 billion in federal assistance between 1950 and 2003, with oil alone taking 46% of the total. Coal took 13 percent. Next was hydroelectric at 11 percent and nuclear at 9 percent, not counting the liability cap subsidy which is an implicit avoided cost and impossible to quantify. At the back of the pack are wind, solar, geothermal, and bio-fuels, recipients of only 6 percent of total energy sector spending during this period.

The Federal Energy Subsidy Scorecard: How Renewables Stack Up

reply to post by links234

Why is coal so 'cheap'? Could it be the hundreds of billions of dollars the federal government gives to the industry each year? Probably! Don't like it? Buy a heat pump and some solar panels. Then you don't have to pay some corporate fat cat your hard earned money AND you get the subsidy instead of an already profitable business!

Federal Coal Subsidies

Harvard did a study recently that projected up to coal costing us $500 billion annually!

Well, let's do a little more than just being hysterical, and take a close look at some of these "subsidies:

Government Funding and Loans for Coal Plants

A 2010 report by Synapse Energy Economics, "Phasing Out Federal Subsidies for Coal" found the U.S. federal government provides billions of dollars in subsidies for the coal industry. The report was written by Lucy Johnston (Synapse Energy Economics), Lisa Hamilton (Rockefeller Family Fund), Mark Kresowik (Sierra Club), Tom Sanzillo (TR Rose Associates), and David Schlissel (Schlissel Technical Consulting) and was released on April 13, 2010.

The report identifies four major areas where taxpayer money continues to fund the construction, expansion, and life extension of coal-fired power plants, thus acting as federal coal subsidies:

1. Financial support for the World Bank and other international financial institutions that finance fossil fuel use and extraction;
2. U.S. Treasury Department’s backing of tax exempt bonds and Build America Bonds for use in the electric sector;
3. U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Utilities Service provision of loans, loan guarantees and lien accommodations to power companies that are investing in new or existing coal plants;
4. Tax credits, loans and loan guarantees through the U.S. Department of Energy.

Coal

OK, let's take the first example:

1. Financial support for the World Bank and other international financial institutions that finance fossil fuel use and extraction;

Examples of World Bank Funding

Two recent examples of World Bank support for new coal plants include:

* The 4,000 MW Tata Ultra Mega Power Project in India, with construction funded by the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank. It is scheduled to be completed by 2012.
* South African power company Eskom’s proposed 4,800 MW Medupi Power Station, one of the largest in the world. The World Bank has approved more than $3 billion and the African Development Bank also provided more than $500 million in financial support for the project.

So it seems that local tree-huggers are not the only ones concerned about coal; global industries and finance are keenly aware of the importance of coal as a source of energy.

The coal industry is an extremely important factor in fulfilling our energy needs. If we follow Obama's socialist policies and bankrupt coal-fired plants, the owners will merely sell the coal to China. And guess what the Chinese say about clean air?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/842188aebe65.jpeg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fd83d25c975f.jpeg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f798323f5316.jpeg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by dawnstar

 

the only ones who I would listen to as far as gripes about our using coal are the people living in the region who are having their mountains blown up and boulders raining down around them!!! they have a valid gripe, they are being poisoned!!!

Another weird thing, from several years back.....there was an underground coal fire somewhere in WVA that was poisoning the air...strange! I forget all the details, or how it started, but it made an entire town move, if I remember.

Here is the town in Pennsylvania that had most of its residents move out, mostly due to the State and Federal Govts, not the fire itself: Centralia, PA.
The thing is, there are still people living there in the area, suffering no adverse reactions from the fire.

dawnstar:

In the 2006 horror film Silent Hill, the town of Silent Hill has been abandoned due to a prolonged mine fire, which writer Roger Avary says was inspired by Centralia.[16] Aspects of this are shown throughout the movie, such as characters wandering through the misty version of Silent Hill wearing mining gear.

Centralia, PA Mine Fire

Likely a DOD push.

They regulate the citizen population from using Coal for electricity, then the military has a vast reserve of energy. The coal can be turned into liquified fuel for the Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marines.

Everybody else will have to find a new way to spin a magnet past a coil of copper wire to make power.

Coal powered the 1800's and is an archaic and ancient fuel source and is dirty and negatively impacts the enviorment so it is on it's way out.

reply to post by mishigas


To be fair, these people are DESTROYING entire mountains just for coal!

That is greed, plain and simple!

And the people who work for them will suffer for years from miner's lung and other ailments.

Good riddance to coal.

reply to post by mishigas


WAKE UP, fool!

You're being played by the right on this debate.

Look at the greed that goes into extracting this coal.

Do you really support destroying entire mountaintops for coal?

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

Coal powered the 1800's and is an archaic and ancient fuel source and is dirty and negatively impacts the enviorment so it is on it's way out.

The sun has heated the earth since the beginning of time and is still useful. We continue to find new ways to employ it.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by mishigas

 

To be fair, these people are DESTROYING entire mountains just for coal!

That is greed, plain and simple!

And the people who work for them will suffer for years from miner's lung and other ailments.

Good riddance to coal.

Mountaintop Removal was ended in Ear 2009 and will never again start up and has been banned Federally!

reply to post by The Sword

To be fair, these people are DESTROYING entire mountains just for coal!

That is greed, plain and simple!

And the people who work for them will suffer for years from miner's lung and other ailments.

Good riddance to coal.

What's so sacred about a mountain? Most coal operations are in lower altitudes than mountains; it's more like foothills. And the landscape is restored.

And Black Lung disease is down about 90% in the past 40 yrs since new safety laws have been passed.

reply to post by The Sword

WAKE UP, fool!

You're being played by the right on this debate.

Look at the greed that goes into extracting this coal.

Do you really support destroying entire mountaintops for coal?

I'm not being played, I'm just not a tree-hugging liberal like you. Greed. What's that about? Our nation - and the world - relies on coal to power many things. So stop being so dramatic and socialistic.

Greed. You mean profit, don't you? And to a marxist, profit is a dirty word. Time to grow up, bunky. Solar power just doesn't make the grade in the real world...