Illuminati and Freemasons in cahoots....

I guess pepsi is just one of those people where the whole world can scream at him
That he is wrong, but in his mind he is right. Kind of reminds me of the movie Kung Pow, where they purposely train a character his entire life that losing is winning... Pepsi was purposely trained that his
Information is always right and never once questioned why everyone else's info is wrong to him

The sun has nothing to do with the design of the Seal. Irrelevant.

I can only see ignorance.

More arrogance. How could you possibly know what anyone two hundred and thirty years ago told anyone to do? Oh yeah, I know, you could read their HANDWRITTEN notes on the matter, but you would just rather speculate. Admit it, this is just your cockamamie theory and you have nothing to support it other then conjecture.

They made the same thing, different individuals same thing, it's clear.

You make it sound like they operated in a vacuum. They had access to each other's designs as well as the committees that preceded them. Their hadnwritten notes and drawings proves this.

Yes but they told them what they want, it';s why all the drawing were about the same thing, if it was to be something else and they were free to draw what ever comes into their mind then we would of seen different drawing of different objects, but this is not the case since all the objects have eyes and pyramids.

No, it was a poem written by Virgil to praise Octavian (Augustus Caesar) and talks of how he will usher in a new Golden Age.

Yes a poem but It was about saturn and her, it's what it is included in the text, it's where they got it from.
About binah, in between him and her, it's what binah is, Saturn.
This with the return of saturn terminology is not new.

The correct translation is, "Now Justice returns." Which is born out by the 'Sic Semper Tyranus' motto in the Virginia seal. Yup, Justice overthrowing tyrants, reeeeallllllllllly bad.

www.myetymology.com...
the Scientific Latin word saturnia
derived from the Latin word Saturnus

Now that is one of the newer versions, we all know saturnia is a derivation from saturn.
And about your new translation here she is in one of the seals as lady of justice, the same one.


Showing to you that these seals were meant from the begining as ideas.

This means the text was taken from there with this conotation of saturn and her.
You are doing your self a great injustice, it's what it means, Saturn, you are not telling the truth.

Here is your friends avatar, makes my point 100 times.

You are all over the place. Maybe you should just stick to trying and prove the Seal is Masonic (which would not be a bad thing if it were true) and that it was designed by Masons. Leave the Latin to people who actually understand it.

I am not, the statue of liberty is a huge masonic monument, the previos seals and the inscriptions show a connection to the masonry.

It was not about Saturn, it was about Saturn's honor and laws. You do not understand the poem.

Yes the return of Saturn the new age, as I said.

Thou dost project to much. Stick to your own point. Masons designed the Seal. Proof please.

I did

1 I proved that masons put it on the dollar bill
2 I proved that there is a masonic asociation, with the liberty lady and the seals and the inscription, making masonry asociated with the elite of the united states at that time.
3 I proved that the official version of events is highly fabricated since they all made the same drawings and that they were told what to draw.

reply to post by fordrew

What people, you are all masons on the same side, it's only masons.
You avatar picture makes a great point to what I have stated, it's what you got there, liberty lady and the god of saturn, they are all figures of the saturnial influence.

Just by visiting this thread you make my point, your avatar, it's what masons are about, now deny it like a good mason and say that it's not lord saturn and her.

Here i'll give you a helping hand.

Originally posted by pepsi78
I can only see ignorance.

There is no sun on the Great Seal so you can call it whatever you want as is your habitual downfall.

They made the same thing, different individuals same thing, it's clear.

They incorporated design motifs from other committees and added their own. Hopkinson and Thomson (both not Masons) were the ones who came up with the Eye of Providence and the unfinished pyramid combined.

Yes but they told them what they want, it';s why all the drawing were about the same thing, if it was to be something else and they were free to draw what ever comes into their mind then we would of seen different drawing of different objects, but this is not the case since all the objects have eyes and pyramids.

Who is 'they'? What are their names?

Yes a poem but It was about saturn and her, it's what it is included in the text, it's where they got it from.
About binah, in between him and her, it's what binah is, Saturn.
This with the return of saturn terminology is not new.

Uh, no. I told you who it was about (Octavian).

www.myetymology.com...
the Scientific Latin word saturnia
derived from the Latin word Saturnus

Now that is one of the newer versions, we all know saturnia is a derivation from saturn.
And about your new translation here she is in one of the seals as lady of justice, the same one.

I guess justice is bad now. Where are you going with this?

This means the text was taken from there with this conotation of saturn and her.
You are doing your self a great injustice, it's what it means, Saturn, you are not telling the truth.

The line in the poem is not about Saturn but about Saturn's honor or more specifically the personification of honor. If you read Latin you would understand that the word 'redeunt' does not refer to an individual.

Here is your friends avatar, makes my point 100 times.

Two posts ago you were crying about the length of responses. Now you go and include someone's avatar as evidence? Stick to facts and stop using extraneous points to try and prove your failed arguement.

I am not, the statue of liberty is a huge masonic monument, the previos seals and the inscriptions show a connection to the masonry.

The Statues of Liberty is irrelevant as it was close to 100 years away from being created when the first committee met. Stick to contemporary (things that were around when the Seal was created) objects.

Yes the return of Saturn the new age, as I said.

The return of Honor, big difference.

I did

1 I proved that masons put it on the dollar bill

No, you said that 'they' made the designers put it there. Who is 'they'? There was only one Mason on the committees.

2 I proved that there is a masonic asociation, with the liberty lady and the seals and the inscription, making masonry asociated with the elite of the united states at that time.

The use of Roman personifications of abstract concepts does not prove any type of affiliation and this use was not limited to persons alive in the United States at that point. but was employed by various nations.

3 I proved that the official version of events is highly fabricated since they all made the same drawings and that they were told what to draw.

You can not prove that anyone was 'told' anything. You were not alive then and have no hard evidence that a directive such as you state was issued. Conjecture is not proof.

reply to post by pepsi78


My avatar is irrelevant to the discussion. You should stay ontopic... It is an artist's depiction of the infinite cycle of death and life. ( full picture is in my ATS media)

There is no sun on the Great Seal so you can call it whatever you want as is your habitual downfall.

It's on the document of the great seal.

They incorporated design motifs from other committees and added their own. Hopkinson and Thomson (both not Masons) were the ones who came up with the Eye of Providence and the unfinished pyramid combined.

Yes so it was from the start that, what I have said, they were told what to do.

Who is 'they'? What are their names?

The people that wanted a seal, the president, the goverment.
They asked them to come up with a seal, they all drew the same thing, a pyramid and an eye.

Uh, no. I told you who it was about (Octavian).

Yes it was for him, but the poem was about what I have said, look it up.

I guess justice is bad now. Where are you going with this?

No it's not bad but it's refering to the same lady of liberty, and her relation to saturn, it's where she belongs.
When are you going to tell the truth ?

The line in the poem is not about Saturn but about Saturn's honor or more specifically the personification of honor.

What do you mean not about saturn but about saturn honor, anything about something makes it about that object or person. It is about saturn return, return to justice, it's what is about, you can spin it all you like.
It's also about no feelings at all, crude justice without mercy, no tolerance.
I don't see how this helps you, it's still about the same figures, the lady of liberty and saturn as a returning force.

Two posts ago you were crying about the length of responses. Now you go and include someone's avatar as evidence? Stick to facts and stop using extraneous points to try and prove your failed arguement.

No not as evidence, as an example to make it more clear and understanding.

The Statues of Liberty is irrelevant as it was close to 100 years away from being created when the first committee met. Stick to contemporary (things that were around when the Seal was created) objects.

I don't see how that changes things, it was from the french masons, showing an afliliation between the roman empire and masonry and the establishment of the united states. The lady of liberty is connected to saturn, about where they got the texts from for the seal.

The use of Roman personifications of abstract concepts does not prove any type of affiliation and this use was not limited to persons alive in the United States at that point. but was employed by various nations.

Yes it does since masons afliliated with it by building a huge statue.

You can not prove that anyone was 'told' anything. You were not alive then and have no hard evidence that a directive such as you state was issued. Conjecture is not proof.

Well it's clear they all drew the same thing, there was no personal initiative, they were told what to do.

Originally posted by fordrew
My avatar is irrelevant to the discussion.

Did 'they' make you use that avatar? 'They' can do those types of things you know.....

reply to post by pepsi78


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7d422b6b3c34.jpg[/atsimg]

I know very little about mythology sir, and according to a simple search, en.wikipedia.org... Saturn is a dude and has a sickle.

There is no Saturn in my avatar according to the description of him.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


If I told you I would have to kill you...

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by pepsi78

 

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7d422b6b3c34.jpg[/atsimg]

I know very little about mythology sir, and according to a simple search, en.wikipedia.org... Saturn is a dude and has a sickle.

There is no Saturn in my avatar according to the description of him.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

If I told you I would have to kill you...

Everyone knows the meaning of saturn and the cicle of life. I don't see how this changes things.
From an old man to a child bahaha , it's what masons think they can acive, we all die some day.
To humor you it's the other way around and as I told you this does not change anything at all.

reply to post by pepsi78


but there is no saturn in the picture. I don't see a dude with a sickle anywhere in the picture, unless he is hiding. Hiding like "Where's Waldo?" perhaps?


edit: sorry but I don't think you understand the picture. It is the cycle of death and life, for as long as the earth exists, there will always be death and life. Hell, for people such as myself who believe in life outside of planet earth, the cycle of life and death happens quite infinitely for as long as the universe exists.

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by pepsi78

 

but there is no saturn in the picture. I don't see a dude with a sickle anywhere in the picture, unless he is hiding. Hiding like "Where's Waldo?" perhaps?

Yes it is, in is a representation of saturn, saturn is dual in nature.

reply to post by de1111codEiT

Chaos and control, Good and evil, the Light and the shadows
they each play a side to create a balance, they even create
unspeakable evil to maintain the balance...like serial killers

Originally posted by pepsi78

Originally posted by fordrew
reply to post by pepsi78

 

but there is no saturn in the picture. I don't see a dude with a sickle anywhere in the picture, unless he is hiding. Hiding like "Where's Waldo?" perhaps?

Yes it is, in is a representation of saturn, saturn is dual in nature.

edit on 13-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

I am still unsure of what you mean . Please explain or link a credible article. Help me so I can learn!

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's on the document of the great seal.

The Seal is the item in question, stop obfuscating by bringing in extraneous examples.

Yes so it was from the start that, what I have said, they were told what to do.

Which is only your opinion. Opinion is not fact.

The people that wanted a seal...

You keep saying 'they' and 'the people', what were their names? You obvisouly have some information that everyone else does not have on which you have based your opinion. Who were 'they'?

...the president, the goverment.
They asked them to come up with a seal, they all drew the same thing, a pyramid and an eye.

The President? Of what, the United States?

Yes it was for him, but the poem was about what I have said, look it up.

The line 'redeunt Saturnia regna' translates to 'Saturn's honor/rules return'. Or 'Honored rules return'. 'Redeunt' is a third person plural present active indicative of the Latin word 'redeo'. Being a third person word means that it refers to a he, she or it. However, since it is third person plural it refers to a 'they' or 'them'. You would not say 'They Saturn returns'. I will no longer be giving you free Latin lessons so I advise you to stop trying to teach or explain Latin to me, you are obviously sorely lacking in this department.

No it's not bad but it's refering to the same lady of liberty, and her relation to saturn, it's where she belongs.
When are you going to tell the truth ?

Virgo and Libra have no relation to Saturn. When are you going to stop speaking about topics where you have no knowledge?

What do you mean not about saturn but about saturn honor, anything about something makes it about that object or person. It is about saturn return, return to justice, it's what is about, you can spin it all you like.
It's also about no feelings at all, crude justice without mercy, no tolerance.
I don't see how this helps you, it's still about the same figures, the lady of liberty and saturn as a returning force.

I explained the Latin to you. Look it up if you do not believe me. Third person plural. Redeunt. Learn something for once by paying attention and not talking.

I don't see how that changes things, it was from the french masons, showing an afliliation between the roman empire and masonry and the establishment of the united states. The lady of liberty is connected to saturn, about where they got the texts from for the seal.

I do not see any images of Saturn on the Great Seal. Stop muddying the waters further with your own reinvention of history and mythology.

Yes it does since masons afliliated with it by building a huge statue.

This has nothing to do with proving that the Great Seal was made and designed by Masons. And who cares if a Mason designed the Statue of Liberty? It is a beautiful statue and was a wonderful gift from the French.

Well it's clear they all drew the same thing, there was no personal initiative, they were told what to do.

If there was no personal initiative then why did Franklin, the only Mason, design the images that he did? There is nothing even remotely Masonic about his contribution. Maybe 'they' did not brainwash him enough? Or maybe 'they' told him, "Try not to put too much Masonic stuff in there Ben, this way pepsi can say that you did not use Masonic images as a cover story while we get those other buffoons to use the stuff we want"? Yeah, that sounds about right.

Your theory is about as believable, and provable, as P.T. Dona's real hoax pyramid and his authentically phony goat-sucker skeleton.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Well I guess you got your opinion and I got mine.


I'll keep my points.

1 Masons put it on the dollar bill.

2 The connection to liberty lady to the source of taking of the texts for the seal (conection to saturnial -liiberty lady) as secondary proof besides the texts she is also connected in kabalah under the tree of life under saturn. Masons made a gigantic statue out of her.

3 They all made the same drawing, they were told what to draw.

A great read proving the symbol predates the making of the seal in masonic terminology, and even outside
of united states before any seal was made, affiliated to the masonic brotherhood.
Link


To clear something out.
There is no name as "the eye of providence" before the making of the seal, such a concept did not exist, as a symbol before the seal was made it held an occult meaning. The designers of the seal called it the eye of providence. So no eye of providence before the seal.

The line 'redeunt Saturnia regna' translates to 'Saturn's honor/rules return'. Or 'Honored rules return'.

Well yes the force of Saturn, honor, glory yes, it's what I have stated. In satanism Satan is a force.
Satan tempted Jesus.
Satan offered Jesus the power honor and the glory of all the kingdoms of the world.
Jesus declined.

Saturn is the physical aspect the material, honor, glory, greed, power.
Problem is you can't have justice without feelings, without mercy, without tolerance.
That is satanism, at it is related to materialism and the material world without any tolerance and forgiveness at all, just like the sadistic father that showed no mercy the dark lord of the old testament. That is not god and it is not the creator of all there is. That is lord saturn.

The bible speaks of what you say, with the coming of the dark pope, with satanic rules of strictness.

This is your "'Saturn's honor/rules return"

The return of saturnial ways.


Here he is, glory, honor the roman empire , the dark lord, he gets tricked by the roman empire, by the dragon and becomes a dark lord. LUCIFER becomes the beast.


Making a point also by music.


As I stated Masonry just like other similar organisations, it is a satanic institution part of the Roman Empire along with the fabricated and twisted religion of the Roman Empire, Christianity, that has nothing to do with Jesus.

reply to post by pepsi78

As I stated Masonry just like other similar organisations, it is a satanic institution part of the Roman Empire along with the fabricated and twisted religion of the Roman Empire, Christianity, that has nothing to do with Jesus.

quoting a really funny statement, LOL!

You have yet to respond to my post, thanks.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Well I guess you got your opinion and I got mine.

You indeed have your OPINION. I however provided the handwritten notes of both the Seal's designers and the Illuminati which are incontrovertible facts.

1 Masons put it on the dollar bill.

Opinion.

2 The connection to liberty lady to the source of taking of the texts for the seal (conection to saturnial -liiberty lady) as secondary proof besides the texts she is also connected in kabalah under the tree of life under saturn. Masons made a gigantic statue out of her.

Opinion and also irrelevant due to historical timelines.

3 They all made the same drawing, they were told what to draw.

Opinion, and a rather arrogant one at that.

To clear something out.
There is no name as "the eye of providence" before the making of the seal, such a concept did not exist, as a symbol before the seal was made it held an occult meaning. The designers of the seal called it the eye of providence. So no eye of providence before the seal.

I am starting to wonder if you really are lazy or just dishonest:

The 1614 published frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh (not a Mason) depicts an eye in a cloud with the name "Providentia" overlooking a globe. How much more proof that it was called that do you need?

Well yes the force of Saturn...

It says nothing of the sort. It refers to the personification of Honor.

Saturn is the physical aspect the material, honor, glory, greed, power.

Saturn does not have a personification of greed, glory or power in Roman mythology. Stop inventing things.

Problem is you can't have justice without feelings, without mercy, without tolerance.

Says who?

That is satanism, at it is related to materialism and the material world without any tolerance and forgiveness at all, just like the sadistic father that showed no mercy the dark lord of the old testament. That is not god and it is not the creator of all there is. That is lord saturn.

I do not believe in your fairy-tale Satan so spare me your irrelevant opinion on religion.

Here he is, glory, honor the roman empire , the dark lord, he gets tricked by the roman empire, by the dragon and becomes a dark lord. LUCIFER becomes the beast.

Did you just use Star Wars as a source? And you did not even use the best movie, at least your are consistent.

As I stated Masonry just like other similar organisations, it is a satanic institution part of the Roman Empire along with the fabricated and twisted religion of the Roman Empire, Christianity, that has nothing to do with Jesus.

Maybe you should take your opinion over to the Relgion forum and let them have fun with you. Sharing is caring.

reply to post by fordrew

It is in the dark where you get your duality, without darkness there is just light. Just like the statue of liberty glowing in the dark with her tourch, she is a saturnial icon. She is Ishtar, Inanna, that does bad deeds by torturing little birds, breaking their wings and then covering it up, claming the underworld, etc there are many examples, It's a spoiled person.

Everything in Saturn is emulated as in oposition to your feelings and ration there are calculations, as in machines calculating wrong from right. This figures are like robots, they base their selfs on calculations, it's why the 666, it is a mathematical number atributed to understanding. A robot computes, understands without any feelings, rationalment at all deprived of the holy spirit.

How would you like to have robots as judges judging you ? Let's get rid of the judges and replace them with highly preforming robots in the courts of law. Then evidence can be forged and presented to the robots that have no real discerning, lacking the human ability to comprehand.

This brings me back to hollywood, hollywood has it's fingers into the occult, it is interesting to look at movies they make, for example Terminator Judgment Day , with machines that have red glowing eyes, the machines take over and judge people by exterminating them because they compute that humanity is a waste and that they must get rid of them.



The human factor is far more than understanding, it has wisdom, as little as it is, it's there ( the holy spirit.) The true light as oposed to glowing in the dark. Without it you are just a machine(your notion of freedom)


As I told you Masonry is part of this fake enlightment act. Light is not just a flashlight turned on, it's a delicate state of being on a high vibrational field and it can only be atained in a natural way, far away from rituals, symbols and any understanding of anything. It's truly a gift from the above. I would call it the shining living water as oposed to shining dry in the desert.

Better to be a child and go wrong from time to time than a hard edged freaking machine.