Illuminati and Freemasons in cahoots....

Originally posted by pepsi78
i do not know what you mean, the sources that I gave do not have nephilim, if you wish to call if fake then so be it but let other people decide for their self. It's what the guy does, he is an artifact researcher and an art exposition presenter of these items he is not a hoaxer.

The guy that has your fake pyramid is the same guy who has the fake nephilim bones (and a whole pile of other fake crap). You used the pyramid as a source and it is displayed by a well-known hoaxer. It has zero archeological merit.

It's from the same area where the other pyramid was found, similar in aspect, same thing 13 steps.

Which is also most likely another hoax as I can not find reference to it on any other site that is not conspiracy oriented. If you have one link it.

Originally posted by Version100
Quote from Professor Charles Eliot Norton regarding the reverse side (the side that is on the
dollar) of the great seal of the US:

"it can hardly (however artistically treated by the designer) look otherwise than as a dull
emblem of a Masonic fraternity."

Which is solely his opinion. The handwritten notes of the various design committees proves otherwise.

In 1884 the US Secretary of State, Frelinghuysen, had a committee formed under Theodore F.
Dwight, chief of the Bureau of Roll and Library of the State Department, to consider what steps
should be taken to revise the design of the Great Seal of the United States.

On that committee was Professor Charles Eliot Norton of Harvard University.

Quote from Professor Charles Eliot Norton regarding the reverse side (the side that is on the
dollar) of the great seal of the US:

"it can hardly (however artistically treated by the designer) look otherwise than as a dull
emblem of a Masonic fraternity."

Yes it's something everyone is blind, out of 3 comettes 2 of them had the all seeing eye, how does it happen that two different groups draw the same thing, and again out of different designers they all had the same idea
to draw a pyramid.

It's clear someone told them, we want an eye and a pyramid.


Third committee's proposal, drawn by William Barton


Hopkinson's pyramid from 1778


What do you know they all had the same idea.

Same for the eye for the first committee and third, same idea, what a coincidence.

Unless someone told them, this is what we want. What you got is a highly fabricated BS story as a cover.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Version100
Quote from Professor Charles Eliot Norton regarding the reverse side (the side that is on the
dollar) of the great seal of the US:

"it can hardly (however artistically treated by the designer) look otherwise than as a dull
emblem of a Masonic fraternity."

Which is solely his opinion. The handwritten notes of the various design committees proves otherwise.

I understand your reasons to defend, I really do...

But, Rome fell for a reason.

That same reason is destroying what the founders envisioned.

No defense will mitigate that cancer, Bacon's New Atlantis is swiftly crumbling.

Originally posted by Version100
I understand your reasons to defend, I really do...

I think this is where some people get confused. I would not have a problem if a Mason did design the Great Seal. I think it would have been an honor to have that person in the Fraternity. However, the only Mason on the committees, Ben Franklin, had a rather poor submission (in my opinion) and I am glad it was not chosen. I like the one that was selected for it uniqueness, not for any mistakenly assumed Masonic content.

The guy that has your fake pyramid is the same guy who has the fake nephilim bones (and a whole pile of other fake crap). You used the pyramid as a source and it is displayed by a well-known hoaxer. It has zero archeological merit.

What are you refering to and please provide a link, I hope you are not refering to the starchild because it is a real cranium. There is no source from you. zero.

Which is also most likely another hoax as I can not find reference to it on any other site that is not conspiracy oriented. If you have one link it.

When you run out of arguments you call everything a hoax.

Originally posted by pepsi78
Third committee's proposal, drawn by William Barton

Not a Mason.

Hopkinson's pyramid from 1778

Also not a Mason.


Still waiting for you to tell everyone what Mason designed it. Another epic pepsi thread failure.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Yes what a big coincidece they all drew pyramids and eyes. I can see the originality. It shows that the story is highly fabricated, they were told what to do. It's the result of the masonic foundation of the united states.

Originally posted by pepsi78
What are you refering to and please provide a link, I hope you are not refering to the starchild because it is a real cranium. There is no source from you. zero.

The link you gave for Klaus Dona. Displayer of Hoaxes. Nephlim bones and goat-sucker skeletons. You linked it, but I will repost it because you seem to be suffering from sort of short-term memory loss and forgot that you used a modern day P.T. Barnum as evidence.

(Pepsi's links because pespi forgot):

The new P.T. Barnum...

Who is Klaus Dona, the pyramid is no hoax.

Link to REAL nephilim bones and other REAL stuff...

Klaus Dona...has artifacts from places such as Roswell, New Mexico; a still intact chupacabras skeleton; as well as giants (Nephilim) bones.

WOWIE! He even has stuff from Roswell! That makes him super-reliable as a source. You rock with your solid detective work.

When you run out of arguments you call everything a hoax.

When it is so obvious it is kind of hard not to say anything.

I see you never came up with another site to back this thing up as well. Good job.

Yes what a big coincidece they all drew pyramids and eyes. I can see the originality. It shows that the story is highly fabricated, they were told what to do. It's the result of the masonic foundation of the united states.

Uh, Sherlock, they had the design notes from the preceding committess.

And why would a Masonic foundation be a bad thing? Brotherly Love, Charity, Relief, etc. Reaaaaaallllly bad things to base a country on.

The link you gave for Klaus Dona. Displayer of Hoaxes. Nephlim bones and goat-sucker skeletons. You linked it, but I will repost it because you seem to be suffering from sort of short-term memory loss and forgot that you used a modern day P.T. Barnum as evidence.

You can't prove the pyramid is a hoax, other sites use material and incorporate it into their site, ATS is one.

What you state would make everything on ATS a hoax, why are you on this site since this site would be a hoax to you.

There are sources that I provided that has nothing to do with conspiracy theory.

When it is so obvious it is kind of hard not to say anything.

I'm sorry but I don't see how it is a hoax.

I see you never came up with another site to back this thing up as well. Good job.

I provided multiple sources.

Now for other seals.


Saying we are one, the exact masonic concept, drawn by a non masons, Jefferson.
We are one, the collective, unity , the third eye, unity with all. This shows the occult concept of the knowlege
that they all had, masons included, the ruling elite.


First sealed document of the seal engraved by the sun "the eye" the sun .

Shows clear the occultic foundation in the united states at that time.


Now for the artifact, the second pyramid, with other artifacts, showing what you speak of is BS.
chapmanresearch.org...

Crespi Gold Plates With Hieroglyphic Writing and Serpent Figure (Barton Reference 2)
Crespi Collection

This shows without a doubt that what you state is invalid and has no ground.


Remeber here they are, the seal of the united states.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/baadee6ac506.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/80e91f1aa972.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by pepsi78
You can't prove the pyramid is a hoax, other sites use material and incorporate it into their site, ATS is one.

I do not need to prove ANYTHING. I did not use the hoax pyramid as evidence, you did. You are the one that needs to prove it is REAL. You need to show that P.T. Dona and his collection of hoaxes is not actually full of crap and that there is some sort of archeological provenence on the hoax pyramid.

What you state would make everything on ATS a hoax, why are you on this site since this site would be a hoax to you.

Who are you now? Some sort of conspiracy site Confucius?

There are sources that I provided that has nothing to do with conspiracy theory.

Not for the hoax pyramid.

I'm sorry but I don't see how it is a hoax.

Because no one but P.T. Dona claims that it is 12,000 years old. That and the fact he displays nephilim bones and goat-sucker skeletons as 'artifacts'. Do you believe in goat-suckers and nephilim?

I provided multiple sources.

No, you did not.

Now for other seals.


Saying we are one, the exact masonic concept, drawn by a non masons, Jefferson.
We are one, the collective, unity , the third eye.


First sealed document of the seal engraved by the sun "the eye" the sun .

Shows clear the occultic foundation in the united states at that time.

These links have nothing to do with the Great Seal. Stop posting irrelevant links.

Now for the artifact, the second pyramid, with other artifacts, showing what you speak of is BS.
chapmanresearch.org...

Read the first paragraph where they site Eric 'King of the Hoaxers' Van Daniken as a primary source. FAILURE.

There was no supervised dig on these items. They could have come from anywhere.

Crespi Gold Plates With Hieroglyphic Writing and Serpent Figure (Barton Reference 2)
Crespi Collection

This shows without a doubt that what you state is invalid.

No, it only shows that you are both lazy and sloppy and will claw and grasp at any unseemly bit of questionable rhetoric that even remotely comes close to your continously erroneous statements.

No Mason designed the Great Seal of the United States of America and the only one on the committees had his design REJECTED.

Who are you now? Some sort of conspiracy site Confucius?

Getting upset ?

Not for the hoax pyramid.

There are sites that have nothing to do with what you state, review my posts.

Because no one but P.T. Dona claims that it is 12,000 years old. That and the fact he displays nephilim bones and goat-sucker skeletons as 'artifacts'. Do you believe in goat-suckers and nephilim?

You are mixing artifacts, Dona is the other artifact, not the one with the jaguars, dona does not claim that.

This artifacts even if used by people like stichin to make up stories about aliens and ufos, they are real artifacts
Just like stichin used the real plates to make out a fantasy, but the plates were real clay tablets.

Read the first paragraph where they site Eric 'King of the Hoaxers' Van Daniken as a primary source. FAILURE.

These are real artifacts and I don't know what you are talking about.
Source


Now for another source that has nothing to do with what you state, Eric 'King of the Hoaxers' Van Daniken , but it has the same description of the object.

worldextreme.ru...
Another plaque with a pyramid. Two jaguars, symbols of strength, have their paws on the sides. There are obvious signs of writing at the foot of the pyramid. To the right and left we see elephants, which lived in South America about 12,000 years ago before any civilizations or cultures are supposed to have existed. And the snakes are at last where they ought to be, in the sky.

It seems your 12,000 years was about the elephants that lived there at that time.

Seems you have no ground on what you state, and you stated in the lack of the argument.

These links have nothing to do with the Great Seal. Stop posting irrelevant links.

It's the seal document, it has to do with it.

No Mason designed the Great Seal of the United States of America and the only one on the committees had his design REJECTED.

That is a highly fabricated story. It was something like this: "we want a pyramid and an eye." Now use your
imagination since they all drew the same images, same drawing in different groups then they were told what to draw.

Now for some more.

Where Novus Ordo Seclorum comes from.

The phrase is taken from the fourth Eclogue of Virgil, which contains a passage that reads:

Ultima Cumaei venit iam carminis aetas;
magnus ab integro saeclorum nascitur ordo.
iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna,
iam nova progenies caelo demittitur alto.

“The last time of prophecy has come to the Cumaean Sibyl; a brand new great order of the ages is born; for now the Virgin and the age of Saturn have returned;

Again Saturn, lord saturn, what I have been debating, this quotes come from places with this sort of conotations.
It just shows the occult affiliation.

The seal is masonic, not only masonic, masons are just part of it, it's from the Elite establishment

Originally posted by pepsi78

Read the first paragraph where they site Eric 'King of the Hoaxers' Van Daniken as a primary source. FAILURE.

These are real artifacts and I don't know what you are talking about.
Source

I don't want to drag the discussion off-topic (!), but I just have to say that from the stand point of art history and paleography, that "Crespi Collection" is blatantly inauthentic. The "Paleo-Hebrew" inscription is flat-out the work of a copyist with no knowledge (or at least concern) for how Hebrew was written, egraved, or incised in context.

The bas-relief of the "Egyptian Priest in temple dress" breaks several conventions of Egyptian art regarding portrayal of the human figure, as does the engraving of the pyramid. (which was originally covered with limestone and whitewash, to give it a perfectly smooth appearance; the individual building blocks have only become visible on modern times, since the Mameluks and Fatimids stripped away the outer layer for building materials for their Islamist-era cities. The ancients saw the pyramids as a single object, and never portrayed the pyramids as a conglomeration of building blocks.).

The Persian artwork is obviously cast from a mould, and copied from famous statuary and bas-reliefs as pictured in history books. With no inscription or context, they prove absolutely nothing, and are precisely what someone would produce if the were trying to "prove" a link with the various civilizations intended.

There have been REAL artifacts that have shown previously unknown connections between ancient cultures; I can think of a Buddha found in a Viking grave in Helgoe, Sweden. But there, context helps affirm the previously unknown connection. For some reason, folks like Von Danniken have never heard of context.....

Originally posted by pepsi78
Getting upset ?

Hardly.

There are sites that have nothing to do with what you state, review my posts.

All of the sites are conspiracy-based. If you have legitimate sources, link them.

You are mixing artifacts, Dona is the other artifact, not the one with the jaguars, dona does not claim that.

Dona claims to have nephilim bones and goat-sucker skeletons. He is a fraud.

This artifacts even if used by people like stichin to make up stories about aliens and ufos, they are real artifacts
Just like stichin used the real plates to make out a fantasy, but the plates were real clay tablets.

And that is a real stone-pyramid, so what? It was used to perpetrate a hoax. It is not as old as claimed and was not made by the people it is allegedly attributed to, it is a fraud.

These are real artifacts and I don't know what you are talking about.
Source

Real and credible are two VASTLY different things. Of cousre they are real, somebody obviously made them, they are not archelogocially credible as their provenence is highly questionable (and that is being generous).

Now for another source that has nothing to do with what you state, Eric 'King of the Hoaxers' Van Daniken , but it has the same description of the object.

worldextreme.ru...
Another plaque with a pyramid. Two jaguars, symbols of strength, have their paws on the sides. There are obvious signs of writing at the foot of the pyramid. To the right and left we see elephants, which lived in South America about 12,000 years ago before any civilizations or cultures are supposed to have existed. And the snakes are at last where they ought to be, in the sky.

Who care's about the description? You posted far too many pictures of it already. We all know what it looks like. Having other people parrot the alleged story about them on their blogs does not make the 'artifacts' any more legitimate.

It seems your 12,000 years was about the elephants that lived there at that time.

Exactly, which either makes them 12,000 years old (and drastically rewrites the course of human history) or they are of much more modern vintage and are a FRAUD. Which is more likely?

Seems you have no ground on what you state, and you stated in the lack of the argument.

What does that mean in English?

It's the seal document, it has to do with it.

The 'Seal document'? Stop bringing in extraneous material. The debate is the Seal itself and your assertion that it was designed by Masons which you have yet to provide any proof of to this point.

That is a highly fabricated story. It was something like this: "we want a pyramid and an eye." Now use your
imagination since they all drew the same images, same drawing in different groups then they were told what to draw.

Really? Did they also fabricate everyone's handwritten notes? To what end? What would be the purpose?

Now for some more.

Where Novus Ordo Seclorum comes from.

Oh no. Are you gonna try and teach everyone Latin again? Please stop!

Too late......

The phrase is taken from the fourth Eclogue of Virgil, which contains a passage that reads:

Ultima Cumaei venit iam carminis aetas;
magnus ab integro saeclorum nascitur ordo.
iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna,
iam nova progenies caelo demittitur alto.

“The last time of prophecy has come to the Cumaean Sibyl; a brand new great order of the ages is born; for now the Virgin and the age of Saturn have returned;

You know there is a difference between the use of seclorum and saeclorum? Also the more literal translation of the third line is:

And now justice returns, honored rules return

Again Saturn, lord saturn, what I have been debating, this quotes come from places with this sort of conotations.

Saturn is the Roman personification of Honor. I see how you left Virgo (Justice) out, how come she does not get a chance to get mixed into your conspiracy mish-mash?

It just shows the occult affiliation.

It is a phrase in Latin that Thomson (not a Mason) modified and added to the Seal. There is nothing occultic about Latin. And even if there was, so what?

The seal is masonic, not only masonic, masons are just part of it, it's from the Elite establishment

Oh, the 'Elite establishment' did it? That is the conspiracy forum cop-out repsonse for, "I have no friggin clue who did it so I will cover myself by saying it was some nameless persons who shall always and forever remain conveniently nameless."

The death spiral of ignorance continues.

And that is a real stone-pyramid, so what? It was used to perpetrate a hoax. It is not as old as claimed and was not made by the people it is allegedly attributed to, it is a fraud.

As I told you, don't worry it's older than united states. It is not a fraud.

Who care's about the description? You posted far too many pictures of it already. We all know what it looks like. Having other people parrot the alleged story about them on their blogs does not make the 'artifacts' any more legitimate.

I posted a source from where there is none of what you say, and people will incorporate it in their blog, or in other places, I don't see what is wrong with it

Exactly, which either makes them 12,000 years old (and drastically rewrites the course of human history) or they are of much more modern vintage and are a FRAUD. Which is more likely?

No dude it was talking about depicting the elephants that were around 12.000 years ago in that region, it is not related to the age of the object, it was not talking about the age of the plate, you making things up associating
it with the age of the object.

The statement was referring to that matter alone.

The 'Seal document'? Stop bringing in extraneous material. The debate is the Seal itself and your assertion that it was designed by Masons which you have yet to provide any proof of to this point.

It is the document of the seal, I don't see how it's not related, it has a sun on it.

Really? Did they also fabricate everyone's handwritten notes? To what end? What would be the purpose?

They were told what to do since they drew the same thing over and over again, meaning it's clear that the official version of accounts is BS. 3 different sources drew the same pyramid. Second of all they all include the depictions of the all seeing eye, except for the 2 comettee, meaning that it is a highly fabricated story and that they were told what to draw.

First


Second


Third and final


They all came up with the same thing in different versions, it's clear that they were told to draw it.

Where Novus Ordo Seclorum comes from.

Oh no. Are you gonna try and teach everyone Latin again? Please stop!

Too late......

This is childish.

The phrase is taken from the fourth Eclogue of Virgil, which contains a passage that reads:

Ultima Cumaei venit iam carminis aetas;
magnus ab integro saeclorum nascitur ordo.
iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna,
iam nova progenies caelo demittitur alto.

“The last time of prophecy has come to the Cumaean Sibyl; a brand new great order of the ages is born; for now the Virgin and the age of Saturn have returned;

It's a personification of ishtar and saturn also a figure made by the masons on a gigantic scale.
Saturn Binah. It just shows the occult affiliation to the masons.
Saturn 666
Acording to this from the tree of life in the rosicrucian depiction.

Ishtar/issis equals saturn, to your unsatisfaction.

Depicting of this seal with the following"Iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna"

Now the Virgin returns

We can see it in another seal what it meant.
big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...

They are spot on, binah=saturn.
It's in relation to this, the lady with the tourch in the dark.

“The last time of prophecy has come to the Cumaean Sibyl; a brand new great order of the ages is born; for now the Virgin and the age of Saturn have returned;

Saturn is the Roman personification of Honor. I see how you left Virgo (Justice) out, how come she does not get a chance to get mixed into your conspiracy mish-mash?

Who cares as long as it's about her and Saturn, it's clear about her and Saturn. Saturn represents the dark side, and it has to do with it because it's on the seal, connected.

The death spiral of ignorance continues.

Yes the masonic/rosicrucian foundation of united states that did it. The founding fathers and establishment.


I noticed you debate at large and make irelevant points to strech out the conversation, to make it big, so it may look relevant, but it's filled with zero relevance.

Pepsin, people have a posted historical evidence that shows your belief is wrong. We have used multiple sources and yet you remain stubbornly ignorant. As far as I am concerned there is no need to discuss further, and you're starting to show your bitter obsession of Freemasonry.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by pepsi78

Misinterpreting the facts to meet your own end. Every rational person sees it for what it is, but there are those who want something to be true so badly they'll do mind gymnastics to make it so in their mind.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78

 

Misinterpreting the facts to meet your own end. Every rational person sees it for what it is, but there are those who want something to be true so badly they'll do mind gymnastics to make it so in their mind.

What fact misinterpretation are you referring to ?
Masons putting the seal on the dollar bill, words taken from passages having to do with Saturn and the statue of liberty that is a huge monument dedicated by masons.

Made up versions with the hidden truth, of groups making the seals with their own inspiration when it is clear they were told what to do, what to make. When you draw over and over the same objects same thing, eyes and pyramids over and over then it must be BS. Then someone told them "this is what we want" the people at the top.

You are just another mason commenting on this. It's what you are.
And as I stated, masonry is part of the Roman Empire enterprise, the control freak agenda, rule by tactics and strategies, assimilate, impose rule, just like the bad old days of the roman empire.

It's what this is about the new world order and the return of Saturnial Satanic rule, the empire, that is the roman empire.

Originally posted by pepsi78
As I told you, don't worry it's older than united states. It is not a fraud.

Oh, why did you not say so earlier. You word is gloden around here.

Actually, on second thought, I would like to see some reputable peer-reviewed evidence to support that the pyramid is as old as you say. Otherwise it is as everyone supsects (except you) a hoax.

I posted a source from where there is none of what you say, and people will incorporate it in their blog, or in other places, I don't see what is wrong with it.

You have no source that verifies its authenticity. NOT ONE. They only parrot the aleeged 'discovery' of the item in question.

No dude it was talking about depicting the elephants that were around 12.000 years ago in that region, it is not related to the age of the object, it was not talking about the age of the plate, you making things up associating
it with the age of the object.

Read it S-L-O-W-L-Y. Father Cripsi-cream and his sycophantic adherents are claiming that it is either 12,000 years old or that the South American natives had access to Egyptian and African culture.

It is the document of the seal, I don't see how it's not related, it has a sun on it.

The sun has nothing to do with the design of the Seal. Irrelevant.

They were told what to do since they drew the same thing over and over again, meaning it's clear that the official version of accounts is BS. 3 different sources drew the same pyramid. Second of all they all include the depictions of the all seeing eye, except for the 2 comettee, meaning that it is a highly fabricated story and that they were told what to draw.

More arrogance. How could you possibly know what anyone two hundred and thirty years ago told anyone to do? Oh yeah, I know, you could read their HANDWRITTEN notes on the matter, but you would just rather speculate. Admit it, this is just your cockamamie theory and you have nothing to support it other then conjecture.

Second

Third and final

They all came up with the same thing in different versions, it's clear that they were told to draw it.

You make it sound like they operated in a vacuum. They had access to each other's designs as well as the committees that preceded them. Their hadnwritten notes and drawings proves this.

This is childish.

It sure is when you try to educate people in a language you never studied.

personification of ishtar and saturn also a figure made by the masons on a gigantic scale.
Saturn Binah. It just shows the occult affiliation to the masons.
Saturn 666
Acording to this from the tree of life in the rosicrucian depiction.

No, it was a poem written by Virgil to praise Octavian (Augustus Caesar) and talks of how he will usher in a new Golden Age.

ng of this seal with the following"Iam redit et Virgo, redeunt Saturnia regna"

Now the Virgin returns

We can see it in another seal what it meant.
big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...

The correct translation is, "Now Justice returns." Which is born out by the 'Sic Semper Tyranus' motto in the Virginia seal. Yup, Justice overthrowing tyrants, reeeeallllllllllly bad.

e spot on, binah=saturn.
It's in relation to this, the lady with the tourch in the dark.

“The last time of prophecy has come to the Cumaean Sibyl; a brand new great order of the ages is born; for now the Virgin and the age of Saturn have returned;

You are all over the place. Maybe you should just stick to trying and prove the Seal is Masonic (which would not be a bad thing if it were true) and that it was designed by Masons. Leave the Latin to people who actually understand it.

Who cares as long as it's about her and Saturn, it's clear about her and Saturn. Saturn represents the dark side, and it has to do with it because it's on the seal, connected.

It was not about Saturn, it was about Saturn's honor and laws. You do not understand the poem.

Yes the masonic/rosicrucian foundation of united states that did it. The founding fathers and establishment.

Once again, a Masonic foundation to the United States would actually be a good aspect as Justice, Charity and Brotherly Love are, the last time I looked, not bad principles to follow.

ed you debate at large and make irelevant points to strech out the conversation, to make it big, so it may look relevant, but it's filled with zero relevance.

Or maybe you are just having a hard time keeping up with all the crap you keep throwing into the deabte:

Real fake nephilim bones
P.T. Dona
Hoax pyramids
Goat-sucker skeletons
Mistranslated Latin
The Statue of Liberty
Saturn
Ishtar
Satan
Forged Ecudorian 'artifacts'

Thou dost project to much. Stick to your own point. Masons designed the Seal. Proof please.