It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Illuminati and Freemasons in cahoots....

page: 12
2
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:06 PM
link   
reply to post by pepsi78
 


click the "




posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:22 PM
link   


After the Council of Trent (1545-1563).



Following the Council of Trent (1545 -1563) the eye of God seen above...was added


It states no such thing that is your addition.




After the Council of Trent. Stop being dense.

Where does it say that.

It's not going to say that because they are unsure, it is not sure what was and when it was added.

I did a little searching of my own.


www.jesusfamilytomb.com...
According to some art historians, the Eye was added several decades later (after the Council of Trent), replacing Pontormo’s original symbol of the three-faced head, which was a Christian symbol of the Holy Trinity prior to the Counterreformation. Others say there was originally nothing in its place, and therefore have opted to remove it altogether from the piece.


Acording to some it was added then acording to others say there was nothing there after the Council of Tren, meaning it's a very late adition and have decided to remove it from the peace.

It's pointless you will never find the true story.
What you can do is admit the symbol is masonic, not really only masonic but also from other secret sociaties that came with it from ancient cultures and imported into christianity. This symbol go's into ancient culture.

It is the third eye, "the eye in the triangle" it's what it is, what you are doing is unfair and unjust.

edit on 14-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2011 @ 10:59 PM
link   
Pepsi... seriously either shut up or get back on topic.

Hate to lose my cool like that, but how many pages of babble do we really need?



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 04:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by YourPopRock
Pepsi... seriously either shut up or get back on topic.

Hate to lose my cool like that, but how many pages of babble do we really need?

We are on topic.

I'm not the one inventing things that are not existant in the source provided like this for example:


Following the Council of Trent (1545 -1563) the eye of God seen above...was added


We who? you are a mason also.
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:12 AM
link   
The Pyramid and All Seeing Eye are are well defined symbols
of Masonry.

Why is there even an argument about this ?

"All Seeing Eye, an important symbol of the Supreme Being
borrowed by Freemasons from the nations of antiquity."

"Egypt has always been considered the birthplace of the
mysteries"

"To Egypt, therefore, Masons have always looked with
peculiar interest, as the cradle of mysterious science of
symbolism whose peculiar modes of teaching they alone,
of all modern day institutions, have preserved to the
present day."

-- Mackey Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, 1919.

I'm a bit confused why such ridiculous denial is occurring,
this is not secret stuff.

As far as the "Illuminati" Freemason connection goes, a rose
by any other name...

The Pyramid of Freemasonry is big, what occurs at the top is
not known by anyone claiming to be a Mason on this forum.


edit on 15-6-2011 by Version100 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by pepsi78
It states no such thing that is your addition.


If you say so. Myabe if you would have used the viewing guide in the top right corner instead of popping off again you would have seen the description.


Following the Council of Trent (1545 -1563) the eye of God seen above replaced the three-faced head of the Trinity.



Where does it say that.


Maybe in the description?


It's not going to say that because they are unsure, it is not sure what was and when it was added.

I did a little searching of my own.


www.jesusfamilytomb.com...
According to some art historians, the Eye was added several decades later (after the Council of Trent), replacing Pontormo’s original symbol of the three-faced head, which was a Christian symbol of the Holy Trinity prior to the Counterreformation. Others say there was originally nothing in its place, and therefore have opted to remove it altogether from the piece.


The link I gave is from the museum itself which I think has a bit more art-history knowledge then you.


Acording to some it was added then acording to others say there was nothing there after the Council of Tren, meaning it's a very late adition and have decided to remove it from the peace.


They meant removed from reproductions. I have been to the Uffizi, it is still on the painting.


It's pointless you will never find the true story.
What you can do is admit the symbol is masonic, not really only masonic but also from other secret sociaties that came with it from ancient cultures and imported into christianity. This symbol go's into ancient culture.

It is the third eye, "the eye in the triangle" it's what it is, what you are doing is unfair and unjust.


Who cares where it came from? You said no such thing was used in Christianity before the 17th Century. You were wrong, AGAIN.

Which Mason painted it on there? Was it Thomas Jefferson's time traveling son-in-law? Give it a rest. It ws pianted in the 16th Century before you said such thigs existed. Prove it otherwise.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Version100
 

What Mackey wrote is not Masonic doctrine or policy. That was his opinion only.


3. Is the eye and pyramid a masonic symbol?

No.

Of the four men involved in designing the USA seal in 1776, only Benjamin Franklin was a freemason, and he contributed nothing of a masonic nature to the committee’s proposed design for a seal. The committeemen were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere as artist and consultant

READ MORE



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Version100
 

What Mackey wrote is not Masonic doctrine or policy. That was his opinion only.




Mackey was 33rd degree, Scottish Rite, and he had the assistance
of extensive masonic libraries and fellow Masons in the creation of
the Encyclopedia, it was published by the Masonic History Co.

If you discount Mackey you must be either a liar or not qualified to
speak on any matters regarding Masonry.

Addendum, your response really aggravates me.

To have someone like you discount the works of a great man like
Albert Mackey is, frankly, sickening.


edit on 15-6-2011 by Version100 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 07:46 AM
link   


They meant removed from reproductions. I have been to the Uffizi, it is still on the painting.

No it's acording to some it's like that and acording to others it's not like that. You are twisting it again.
It starts with "acording to some" meaning some of them who beilive it was added after what you state.
Then it states that others state on the contrary, so they removed it from the replica.
It may be on the original but there is doubt when it was added, so those with replicas removed it because they beilived there was nothing there.



Others say there was originally nothing in its place, and therefore have opted to remove it altogether from the piece.


Who knows when the eye was added.



Who cares where it came from? You said no such thing was used in Christianity before the 17th Century. You were wrong, AGAIN.

If you are talking again about the eye in a globe presented by the secret sociaty member then fine. It's a symbol inserted by secret sociaties into christianity.

The Roman Empire killed Jesus then made a moch religion out of it to control the population since Jesus was a very popular figure. They mixed elements from other cultures into the religion from the ancient world with what Jesus and his folowers said, as a result you got the Christian fate, twisted and mixed with a whole bunch of things. Then even more with gradual time among Christianity they changed, inserted , modified , added symbols.

Not that I have something against Jesus, he was cool and a kind person and a smart man no matter what his status is or was, if he is or not the son of god.

It's why I despise the Roman Emipre and fraterities such as the free masons, there are a bunch of infiltrated liars.



Which Mason painted it on there? Was it Thomas Jefferson's time traveling son-in-law? Give it a rest. It ws pianted in the 16th Century before you said such thigs existed. Prove it otherwise.

Yes from secret sociaty members. The information you request is in my posts.
edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:21 AM
link   
reply to post by Version100
 

Yes, but I just wanted to prove it in a more elaborate way.

Regarding where they got the texts for the seal we already know but now the same characters depict the same meaning for the unfinished pyramid.

The beautiful Virgin, weeping, denotes the Temple, unfinished, the unfinished pyramid from the great seal.


edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:42 AM
link   
reply to post by Version100
 

I've read Mackey's work as I inherited a collection of his books from my Godmother's great Grandfather who was a Mason. The 33rd degree doesn't mean his opinion is absolute and that it is nothing more than his opinion. Being a 33rd doesn't mean your god or infallible. He was a good Mason I don't doubt one bit deserving of the honorary title he earned in 1844. Unless you can show me where the several individual and sovereign Grand Lodges around the world adopted his opinion as policy then you're just blowing steam.

I've look around and I find no degree where the pyramid is used. Can you?

The excerpt that I posted earlier quoted information from such people as Brent Morris, a 33rd and a fairly well known Mason.

reply to post by pepsi78
 

You're last sentence doesn't make sense as it jumps from conclusion to conclusion. You're opinion is not one of fact or logic. The legend of Masonry surrounds the building of King Solomon's Temple, not a pyramid.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:48 AM
link   
reply to post by KSigMason
 

It is even more clear with 33 degree mason stating that it is a masonic symbol imported from ancient culture. It's clear that this is the case and that they imported it into Christianity from ancient cultures.

Even masonic art state the same, kabalistic art

Two pilars dark and light and the eye above in the middle, this making the left right and the middle, stop jerking around. It;s the triangle and the eye and that it is imported from the ancient cultures.


edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 08:59 AM
link   
reply to post by pepsi78
 

Nowhere on that image is a pyramid. There is the eye, but I have never said that the eye isn't used. I have said that the use of the eye isn't exclusive as it has been used over the history of time by many different cultures and organizations. I have said though that there is no pyramid symbol used in mainstream Freemasonry and that is fact. You use the opinion of a Masonic author, one who is constantly taken out of context by non-Masons to suit their agenda, but I use a current 33rd and also the fact that you cannot prove that this pyramid exists in our rituals.

Plus that image is just one rendering of the Master Masons trestleboard. I've seen dozen of different versions where the symbols are placed differently. I've seen one carpet that had all 3-degrees symbols on it. You're going to see what you want to see, whether its true or not. The Masons are telling you its not true, but you've wrapped your head around it so much because you want someone to "be in control" to blame for all the wolds problems that you'll do mental gymnastics to make it so.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by pepsi78
 

Nowhere on that image is a pyramid. There is the eye, but I have never said that the eye isn't used. I have said that the use of the eye isn't exclusive as it has been used over the history of time by many different cultures and organizations. I have said though that there is no pyramid symbol used in mainstream Freemasonry and that is fact. You use the opinion of a Masonic author, one who is constantly taken out of context by non-Masons to suit their agenda, but I use a current 33rd and also the fact that you cannot prove that this pyramid exists in our rituals.

It's the same depiction of the pillars, the 3 pillars the so called trinity, with the eye above the middle pillar.


Plus that image is just one rendering of the Master Masons trestleboard. I've seen dozen of different versions where the symbols are placed differently. I've seen one carpet that had all 3-degrees symbols on it. You're going to see what you want to see, whether its true or not. The Masons are telling you its not true, but you've wrapped your head around it so much because you want someone to "be in control" to blame for all the wolds problems that you'll do mental gymnastics to make it so.


I don't see what I want to see, that is taken from the tree of life. Masons are telling me it is borrowed from antiquity, 33 degree masons.


"All Seeing Eye, an important symbol of the Supreme Being
borrowed by Freemasons from the nations of antiquity."

edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:44 AM
link   
reply to post by pepsi78
 

So anything that is taken from "antiquity" is automatically means it comes from the Tree of Life? Have you ever heard of a non sequitur argument because you post nothing but them. A logical comment should be A+B=C, but instead you post A+B=Z. The pyramid is not Masonic and one picture is not a worldwide accepted image. Like I said every Lodge has their own depiction of the MM trestleboard. If I was home I'd take a picture of one of rural Lodge's trestleboards (over 100 years old).



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 11:37 AM
link   
reply to post by KSigMason
 


This image is depicted from the kabalistic concept, with the two pillars of severity and mercy and with the pillar of
the middle where the eye is. It's what it is, if you want to imagine it's something else then fine.


edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 12:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by pepsi78
No it's acording to some it's like that and acording to others it's not like that. You are twisting it again.
It starts with "acording to some" meaning some of t]hem who beilive it was added after what you state.
Then it states that others state on the contrary, so they removed it from the replica.


None of them state it was not added after the Council of Trent, they only say it was added at a later date. The Uffizi believes it was placed there by an adherent of Pontormo after the Council of Trent.


It may be on the original but there is doubt when it was added, so those with replicas removed it because they beilived there was nothing there.


It was added much closer to the creation of the painting then it was to the Great Seal. It was indeed a Christan symbol (proving you wrong yet again).


Who knows when the eye was added.


After the Council of Trent.


If you are talking again about the eye in a globe presented by the secret sociaty member then fine. It's a symbol inserted by secret sociaties into christianity.


No. I was talking about the one in the painting. It was recognized at that time as a Christian symbol as it was likely superimposed over another Christian symbol beneath it painted by Pontormo.


The Roman Empire killed Jesus then made a moch religion out of it to control the population since Jesus was a very popular figure.


Nobody cares about your personal view on how religion evolved. Stick to the topic. You said that Masons created the Seal and were proved wrong, just like on every other point you tried to make.


Yes from secret sociaty members. The information you request is in my posts.


There is no information in your posts that say any such thing. You are delusional.



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 01:01 PM
link   


None of them state it was not added after the Council of Trent, they only say it was added at a later date. The Uffizi believes it was placed there by an adherent of Pontormo after the Council of Trent.

It states that only some think it was added when you say it was, others do not share the same opinion.
Yes of course the eye was added on the painting no one is saying it was not, just that the date is unknown.



It was added much closer to the creation of the painting then it was to the Great Seal. It was indeed a Christan symbol (proving you wrong yet again).

That is unsustained evidence and it is only acording to some.



After the Council of Trent.

Yes after, 10 years 20 years 50 years 100 years 200 years. After does not make it right away, what they state is that some think it was added then and some do not think that.

No exact date is given, it's just interpretations, no name of who added it, do you got a name of the artist who added the eye, we know it was not the original artist, then who did it ?
You see this proves my point, I just like you would like to get to the bottom of it.
No name, no exact date just speculations.



No. I was talking about the one in the painting. It was recognized at that time as a Christian symbol as it was likely superimposed over another Christian symbol beneath it painted by Pontormo.

If it was a Christian symbol then I'm sure you will not find any problems finding similar Christian paintings dating around that time since acording to you it was a Christian symbol.. But you won't.



Nobody cares about your personal view on how religion evolved. Stick to the topic. You said that Masons created the Seal and were proved wrong, just like on every other point you tried to make.

I don't see how you proved me wrong. We got 33 degree masons stating that it is a masonic symbol imported from antiquity, we got the eye from the secret sociaty member affiliated with rosicrucianism, these mixed with masonry and were close to eachother.
We got father time Saturn and the virgin (also statue of liberty) and the texts for the seal from where they came from.



There is no information in your posts that say any such thing. You are delusional.

Look to my last quotation,.

edit on 15-6-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2011 @ 09:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by pepsi78
It states that only some think it was added when you say it was, others do not share the same opinion.


Others do not even state their opinion, lack of an opinion is not contradictory evidence.


Yes of course the eye was added on the painting no one is saying it was not, just that the date is unknown.


An aproxiamtion is given which still puts it within the 16th Century.


That is unsustained evidence and it is only acording to some.


Some is better then NONE which is what you have.


Yes after, 10 years 20 years 50 years 100 years 200 years. After does not make it right away, what they state is that some think it was added then and some do not think that.


See above. Additionally, if there was thought that it was added later they would not be saying, "After the Council of Trent", they would be saying, "After the War of 1812" or some such. Stop with the semantics.


No exact date is given, it's just interpretations, no name of who added it, do you got a name of the artist who added the eye, we know it was not the original artist, then who did it ?


It is believed that Jacopo Chimenti, a follower of Contormo, was the artist.


If it was a Christian symbol then I'm sure you will not find any problems finding similar Christian paintings dating around that time since acording to you it was a Christian symbol.. But you won't.


Hmm. Are you sure?

I kind of like this Antoniazzo Romano work the uses a triangle to depict the Trinity. You were right though it was not from the 16th Century, it was from the 15th CENTURY. Oh well.

I have several more that I am fairly certain are from the same era but I need to confirm the dates. I particularly like this fresco that is located in the Vatican and shows very clear Renaissance influence.

I also like this tapestry which is also located in the Vatican. As the Vatican Museum website states, all of their tapestries date from the early 1,500's so I only need to locate on which ceiling it is hung in the two main galleries. It may take some work as they are both 1/2 mile long. But I am sure that if need be I can discover exactly where it is hung to confirm this picture.

My other favorite is this fresco located on the celing of the library at San Piero Ciel D’oro in Florence. The Church was converted to a library in the same time period but I would like to confirm the date myself before I make you eat your words with this one.


I don't see how you proved me wrong. We got 33 degree masons stating that it is a masonic symbol imported from antiquity, we got the eye from the secret sociaty member affiliated with rosicrucianism, these mixed with masonry and were close to eachother.


33rd Degree Masons only matter in the Scottish Rite and their opinion about anything counts the same as any other person (or Mason for that matter). You still do not get it, do you? You lost your main arguement, that Masons created the Great Seal, and are now getting your butt kicked on any other point that you try to obfuscate that arguement with. Do you know why? Because everything is a figment of your delusional thought process. None of your points are real, they exist only as your opinion.



posted on Jun, 16 2011 @ 03:41 AM
link   
reply to post by pepsi78
 

I define the base symbolic meanings by what the Lodge describes, but I also put in my references from my studies. Back to the point though, there is no pyramid in this and you're interpretation is not proof, it's your opinion only and not fact.



new topics




 
2
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join