Watch NRA heads explode: Al Qaeda spokesman urges terrorists to buy lots of guns at gun shows

Originally posted by TrueBrit
But sir, in the heat of the moment, absolute prevention of collateral damage is quite tricky. I do not know the layout of your home, but lets assume you have a top floor , and a bottom floor, or that you live in a shared house, or appartment. There is no direction that you could unload your weapon in, that would not pose a very real threat to others. Using a melee weapon however, getting in close, means that ALL damage done , is done to the target.

The other sickening thing about range weapons, is that there are only so many places you can fire one without risking innocent lives. You may recall an incident where a person was firing into the air , the bullet went up, and then came down through the roof of a church and dropped a three year old.

I agree with you, which is why I would use a shotgun. It is for short range situations, and it poses no threat to the other houses around mine. I live in a detached, single family house, so there are no neighbors at risk. If I used an AR-15 or an AR-10 then there may be some danger to my neighbors. Your idea of using a melee weapon is fine, that is until the intruder in your home pulls a .45 on you. The stories about people shooting into the air, only to have the bullet come back down and kill someone are false, the show Mythbusters proved that to be a bunch of BS.

I hope you idiots hope they don't HAVE to sell guns to people who they don't want to.

Originally posted by DuceizBack
I hope you idiots hope they don't HAVE to sell guns to people who they don't want to.

What does that even mean?

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by DuceizBack
I hope you idiots hope they don't HAVE to sell guns to people who they don't want to.

What does that even mean?

Obviously it means what you hope it didn't mean when those people meant they HAD to hope it meant that.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

Its nothing to do with the Roman aspect. It is how my forefathers fought before the tyrants came here , and taught us the so called civilisation that all that is now was spawned from. The gun is the historical extention of the tyranny of Rome. It is an utterly souless weapon, designed to reduce the act of making war, to a disassociative activity, removed from the truth of what is being done. Causing death should make the gorge rise, should be felt in the weight of the blow, and the tearing of each sinew, the slicing of every inch of flesh, and the grating of steel on bone, or the sudden plunge through an organ.

Letting the lead do the work is exactly the same as a mobster telling a thug to go and do his bidding. It is without honour entirely.

I don't know about you but, I'm not trying to make war. I am a peace loving civilized man that rather watch my kid splashing in the pool than get involved in violence. It isn't about making war, it is about making it home, or making my home more secure.

Nobody else is responsible for feeding my family. Nobody else will raise my child the way that I will. So, when some grubby little punk pulls a knife and demands my money in the parking lot, he gets the business end of a gun. If he runs he gets to go free. He decides to continue being agressive he gets to catch the lead.

I don't really give a rat's hind end if that doesn't seem honorable. There is nothing honorable in threatening to take a life instead of working for your survival.There is nothing honorable in refusing to use all means of defense so that I may continue to fulfill my obligations to my family.

In my opinion it is far more honorable to keep feeding my child than to engage in some fantasy world version of noble combat. Of course if you think using a gun some how removes you from the emotional impact of death, you obviously haven't had to use one. Their is an emotional price to pay in taking, or attempting to take, a life. Even people with the most clear cut cases of self defense report depression, PTSD, and other types of mental distress.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever recieved when I was thinking of joining the military was this, "remember the faces of the dead and dying don't stay on the battlefield. They live on long after you leave their country." If guns reduce the weight of the action then why do so many soldiers return with PTSD? Why do so many cops retire after gun fights? Why did nearly a whole generation of America's working class come back with alcohol and drug problems after Vietnam?

You speak not from experience but from the land of fantasy and dreams. A land that you have built in your mind that does not exist elsewhere. The cost of taking a life is high. Doing it with a gun carries the same chance of dishonor as it does with a sword. It can be noble or repugnant. It all depends on the intention of the person wielding the tool.

reply to post by MikeNice81

In my opinion it is far more honorable to keep feeding my child than to engage in some fantasy world version of noble combat. Of course if you think using a gun some how removes you from the emotional impact of death, you obviously haven't had to use one. Their is an emotional price to pay in taking, or attempting to take, a life. Even people with the most clear cut cases of self defense report depression, PTSD, and other types of mental distress.

This right here is gold. There is no honor in getting yourself dead because you have seen too many kungfu movies. Ask people that have experience and train others in knife combat, if it is a good idea to try to disarm a knife weilding thug. They will laugh in your face and call you stupid. Most people have never seen a knife fight, let alone been in one. It's not like TV, being cut and being stabbed sucks. Been there done that, someone gets within 5 feet of me aggressively on my property, and don't listen to the one warning of get lost I give, I am putting them down with a bullet.

reply to post by MikeNice81


It would be grand if I was speaking from a complete lack of expirience here, but I am not. I have been shot at, I know that much. I was a kid at the time.The rounds meant for me half crippled my friend, one passed clear through his shin, shredded his calf muscle. The weapon was weilded by a nut case. We were just leaving school,thats all.

And when it comes to taking life, the closest I have come, was when I attempted to strangle a fellow pupil years ago at my senior school. He had been harrassing me for three years with assaults, verbal abuse, and pranks. I grabbed his tie one day, and tried to kill him with it. The only reason I failed to kill him, was that his tie broke. He was purple, his eyes bloodshot. If that tie hadnt snapped, he would have died.

At my old high school, I learned severable valuable lessons, none of them on the curriculum. The most important lesson I learned is how to disarm a person with a knife, how to defend myself with total success. I know what it is to be under threat. Even in the gravest dangers I have faced, I would never have picked up a gun to free myself from the situation. I've broken bones, put people through plate glass, smacked them in the head with tables, chairs and christ knows what else, all in self defense.

The lessons I learned there , have not become less useful as time has worn on. Danger still engenders the same response in me. There is no circumstance which could cause me to pick up a ranged weapon, rather than getting in close enough, and taking the danger out of commission properly. If others are so damned frightened of getting some claret on thier shirts, well I guess you will all be saving money on washing powder... well done you guys.

Do not presume, to tell me where my motivations for what I say come from. You have never met me, you do not know where I have been , or what I have had to do. Life is a strange beast, and occasionaly it creates stranger ones.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by DuceizBack
I hope you idiots hope they don't HAVE to sell guns to people who they don't want to.

What does that even mean?

Obviously it means what you hope it didn't mean when those people meant they HAD to hope it meant that.

Oh, OK... that's what I thought it meant, I was just making sure.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Adam Gadahn? Is this a joke? The Mossad/CIA agent? Jew, son of Carl K. Pearlman; a prominent Jewish urologist, former member of the board of directors of the stinking ADL? Who beat up muslims when he was young? This guy?

Mwahahahaa!

Yeah we totally cannot see through this BS!

You nailed it....I give it two months til it happens

This is it people, this is the signal. The government is coming for your guns using Al-CIADA.

All they need now is some kind of ``Al-CIADA`` terrorists ``buying guns at a gun show`` (probably sold to them by the ATF) then they go shoot up a school or something and boom, that's it, guns must be banned or you want Al-CIADA to kill kids.

edit on 7-6-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

reply to post by TrueBrit

The most important lesson I learned is how to disarm a person with a knife, how to defend myself with total success.

Why is this the almost canned response from every british male that doesn't like guns? I have never seen a country more populated by close combat masters. Yet, the Brits still keep getting stabbed to the point that they talked about banning certain knives.

I've broken bones, put people through plate glass, smacked them in the head with tables, chairs and christ knows what else, all in self defense.

Well aren't you just a marvelous beast. I give up you are Wolf The Quarlsome and William Wallace reincarnated in modern Britian.

If others are so damned frightened of getting some claret on thier shirts, well I guess you will all be saving money on washing powder... well done you guys.

I don't drink wine. I actually abstain from all alcohol. So, that fear doesn't resonate with me. However, based on experience working personal security and with the police, I know how lethal a knife is at less than 6 meters. I have seen the results of even seasoned martial artists trying to take on a knife wielding oponent. I am not afraid of injury or death. I do refuse to take an unnecessary risk that increases the chances of either.

I can put six shots in an area of about 3"x6" in less than seven seconds. I am not afraid of endangering anyone put the person trying to take my life. I find no dishonor in responding to lethal force with an even greater level of lethal force. I also don't find it heroic. It is simply doing what is needed.

Any one that finds war and violence either heroic or epic misses the point of violence. Violence is a quick and dirty job best done only when necessary and only to the point necessary. It is not a matter of honor, it is a matter of survival. There is no dishonor in prevailing when your life is at risk. Whether you choose melee or ranged weapons is an inconsequential matter. What matters is that evil is not allowed to triumph.

Again if you want to live in a midevial fantasy world, be my guest. Two things, don't foret that even then they didn't hesitate o use archers first. Second, don't expect the rest of the world to hold back when the threat has evolved.

I am sorry to hear about your friend. I'm sure that affected your view of firearms. I had a close colleauge die after being stabbed. He was a trained martial artist. A guy tried to rob him in a McDonalds bathroom. Instead of using his gun he decided to try disarming the guy. An unlucky jab to his thigh hit an artery and he bled out.

I decided that day that I would not die some undignified death on the cold linoleum somewhere. Pull a knife and you will get toted out on a stretcher. Whether you are in a plastic bag or not is between you and god. That is my stance and one that I know works. I had a guy think he could rob me in a parking lot with a knife. He realized quickly that running was the better option. We both left unscathed and he was later arrested. The mere presence of overwhelming force settled the issue.

I have a life to live, a family to feed, and a child to raise. I don't don't have time for foolish fantasys about some nonexistent ideal of noble and honorable warfare.Warfare has never been honorable or noble. The Chinese had a flame thrower in 912. Crossbows, archers, and catapults have been part of warfare since ancient times. Battle has forever been about winning regardless of the necessary means.

Dungeons and Dragons is fun and all, but after leaving the RPG convention, you're much safer with a firearm for real life protection. Swords and maces don't do much against a glock or a 9mm wielded by your potential robber, thief, or drugged out murderer. Perhaps Britain is just that safe (and controlled what with all the CCTV and lack of civil liberites), but back here in the US of A, don't bring a power gauntlet to a gunfight. Your reward will be a bloody hole in your abdomen.
As for selling guns to terrorists, NRA and gunshows aren't the problem. The problem is the U.S. government. How many of our current enemies did our government arm,fund, or support before they turned on us?

reply to post by louieprima


I have a Flintlock Of Head-Hollowing +5. Oh, and a Scion Of Haste if I need to make a speedy escape. And don't forget about my Codpiece Of Penetration +6 for those especially stubborn intruders.

Star for you, buddy.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Stop playing W.O.W and welcome your self to modern day society! Your point of view is so silly that its unbelievable!

Do you think back in time when swords were first created, there was a "noble, honorable" man that refused to use "range" weapons (swords) and stuck to hand to hand??? Bet his family tree looked like a shrub!

Utter lies. Utter and complete lies. I'm not sure why you posted this, but I can't imagine you are a second amendment advocate if you posted it without completely ripping it apart as base lies.

Please, OP, go to a gun show, and ask as many people as you can if they can sell you a Fully Automatic Assault Rifle without a background check or any paperwork at all. PLEASE do this. And have someone video tape it.

70% of the people are going to laugh in your face, convinced you are making a joke. And to them, it's funny.

20% are going to roll their eyes at you and say, "Yeah right, good luck with that nutjob".

5% are going to stop and look you over, and start to ask you why you want a fully automatic weapon, and why you think that it's possible to own one without the massive amount of paperwork, and the literally tens of thousands of dollars it costs to buy a registered fully automatic weapon of any kind. See, because are ignorant, you don't know that Automatic fire arms, are prohibitively expensive to buy. Because new civilian automatics were banned, they don't make any more. So EACH and EVERY automatic that was produced preban, is worth tens of thousands.

2% of the people you ask are going to attempt to escort you to the security personnel or police officer that is present at the gun show. They may even start yelling, and waving and pointing you out to authority figures at the show.

2% are going to start following you around, and keeping an eye on you and point you out to cops once you try to leave the show.

There is a small chance that 1% may actually attack you being convinced you are up to no good, and may try to subdue you until police or show security can take control of you.

So peddle your fear mongering lies elsewhere.

Here is the funny thing about gun shows. Most of the people are some kind of nutjob or another myself included. But the #1 thing to understand is that the majority of people at gunshows, well, they aren't the type of people who sit around on their hands and "don't get involved".
They get involved.

Click here for more information.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
But sir, in the heat of the moment, absolute prevention of collateral damage is quite tricky. I do not know the layout of your home, but lets assume you have a top floor , and a bottom floor, or that you live in a shared house, or appartment. There is no direction that you could unload your weapon in, that would not pose a very real threat to others. Using a melee weapon however, getting in close, means that ALL damage done , is done to the target.

The other sickening thing about range weapons, is that there are only so many places you can fire one without risking innocent lives. You may recall an incident where a person was firing into the air , the bullet went up, and then came down through the roof of a church and dropped a three year old.

This is ignorance. You aren't familiar with current technology. No offense. I'm sure you are brilliant, and I have no reason to think otherwise. But in the last 10 years home defense ideology has changed greatly.

"safetybullets"
These are compressed metal powder. I keep them in 9mm and .40S&W.
These bullets are simply pressed metal powder with a mild bonding agent. When they hit materials that have a surface tension of a greater value than the faillure tension of the bonding agent, they shatter back into powder. I have test fired my safety bullets into drywall and an old pressboard hollow door. They did not penetrate the other side of the materials in multiple cases. We did finally shoot through the door, from 5 feet away and shooting about 5 rounds into the same spot over and over until the 4'th or 5'th round went through the door and hit the water jug on the other side.

A 12 guage shotgun with #00 up to #4 shot would indeed go through most walls and doors no problem and seriously wound if not kill someone on the other side.
For home use I use #7 or #8 shot. From 5 feet away it will shred a human being in a nice pattern. They will have multiple organ trauma and they may go into shock. From 10 feet away they will still be mortally wounded. From 20 feet away, it will hurt a great deal and they will need to be hospitalized. 50 feet or more and you are talking about the opponent probably being hurt but still being able to move under their own power.

Normal "birdshot" has penetration against clothing and flesh of about 3 inches at 30 yards. With a heavy coat or motorcycle leather a person could take one in the chest from 30 feet and probably keep walking at you.

From 10 feet away against a wall or door, the pellets can penetrate, but the kinetic energy they carry will be reduced down to the point they probably wouldn't breach a cotton t-shirt in another 5 feet. Someone on the other side of the wall will get splattered with dry wall fragments and pellets, but probably wouldn't be wounded more than scrapes and bruises.

Many hardcore guys will say the only way to eliminate a threat is to kill it and stop it completely. I disagree. I don't want to kill someone. And if I don't have to, I won't. Anyone who is going to keep coming at me after catching a torso or leg full of bird shot is going to have to survive 2 more rounds of bird shot at a closer range, and then survive 3 more rounds of #00 shot to get to me and grab me. That is either Jason Vorhees, Michael Meyers, or a Predator Alien. I was dead no matter what that case.
If you can point to the convict that surviveded 6 direct blasts from a 12guage with 3 #8 rounds and 3 #00 rounds, I may change my philosophy.

But for now the first shotgun blast, gives them the chance to limp away, and allows me my primary objective. Getting the bad guy outa my house where the police can look for him.