Steve Wozniak: Humans will soon surrender to machines

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ironfalcon

 

We surrendered to machines a long time ago when we allowed them to take our jobs so our bosses could become rich and leave us for other countries, going GLOBAL. We should be so proud because we got these babies off and walking. Now they don't even know who we are.

In that case I demand you stop driving a car so horse-carriage manufacturers can get back in business.

I used to have a horse and I much prefer it to the car. So fine by me. Next.

Throw away your computer and hire a secretary to use a typewriter for you.

Steve Wozniak is working for the machines! He could even be one of them... he is the co-father of billions of machines that are now inside people's homes!!! It is partly because of him that I am forced to type this on a machine instead of hand writing my thoughts and then mailing them in to you guys.

He is probably right though.

Oh and Eeee-VA..

reply to post by ironfalcon


this seems like i have heard this before !
i remember that some time ago when computers were in the early stages and robots began assembling cars on production lines , it was said that people will have more leisure time , no more slaving away for ten hours a day
more time to spend with your families and we would all be taking up hobbies to pass the time away .

guess what ! I AM STILL WAITING.

My take on things:
This is just the least scary and less probable future. More scary and more probable is that we will become machines. First via artificial organs/brain functions due to illnesses, then due to desire to be better since "original" biological design could be improved, then due to simple job market pressure until in the end there will be just a big hive of machines.
Nobody will control us. There will be no us. We will "mutate" into Robo Sapiens.

so please tell me what good is 7 Billion humans
when every one of them can be replaced
with a machine ???

you support this every time you buy
a machine.

oh wait, I'm typing on a machine now.

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
not that machines will get smarter, just us getting dumber.
thats what i see.

I dont even see it as a problem of "intelligence." Humans (at least some humans) are plenty intelligent. The problem is that too many of us dont USE our intelligence for anything other than satisfying our emotional needs and wants.

The advantage a non living intelligence would have is that it would not be lugging around millions of years of programming that played out at a non conscious level. (Emotions, instincts, etc., and so it could really CHOOSE the most intelligent option, while human, who can often IDENTIFY the most intelligent option, only rarely have the will to choose it.

Greed, and breed. Those two biological drives have made us great, but they will also be the end of us if we cannot become masters of our selves.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


yeah i agree, it was what i was trying to portray, you worded it much better.

it's like we even allowed machines to replace our inteligence, and like you said most choose to not use it, because they are either just satisfied with being entertained or they prefer to have machines think for them.

the brain is a muscle and as such requires exercise, wich can be simply using it.
and much like our other muscles if its neglected a state of atrophy can and will ensue.

i don't hate machines or technology, i use them as tools to help me do things i already did, but much faster.
without the machines i still know how to do "stuff".

while others let machines take the full burden, some can say they use machines as slaves but at the same time those people are enslaved by those same machines.

since they allowed the machines to fully replace their skills and normal attributes, without those machines those same humans become babies, too imature and too helpless to face the world without supervision.

hence why some claim we do need those machines, as they look to make of the human race a bunch of babies that are meant to be watched and cared for, punished and corrected, fed and bathed, clothed and happy.

but never allowing these babies to grow up, face the world for themselves and most importantly think if theres much more to life than this.

the onset of the 21st century will be know as the period where technology ceased to be a tool and became mama goose.


i think alot about this in everyday life situations, for example when going through subway stations im usually one of the few people that take the stairs instead of the escalators.
i often wonder if the escalators stoped how many of those people would start to climb on their own, wich ones would start complaining, and those who would patiently and orderly wait for someone to turn the escalators back on.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ironfalcon

 

We surrendered to machines a long time ago when we allowed them to take our jobs so our bosses could become rich and leave us for other countries, going GLOBAL. We should be so proud because we got these babies off and walking. Now they don't even know who we are.

In that case I demand you stop driving a car so horse-carriage manufacturers can get back in business.

I used to have a horse and I much prefer it to the car. So fine by me. Next.

Throw away your computer and hire a secretary to use a typewriter for you.

Why not just use a pen and write it out? What is your point with these "demands" anyway and do they have anything to do with the thread or do you just need attention?

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ironfalcon

 

We surrendered to machines a long time ago when we allowed them to take our jobs so our bosses could become rich and leave us for other countries, going GLOBAL. We should be so proud because we got these babies off and walking. Now they don't even know who we are.

In that case I demand you stop driving a car so horse-carriage manufacturers can get back in business.

I used to have a horse and I much prefer it to the car. So fine by me. Next.

Throw away your computer and hire a secretary to use a typewriter for you.

Why not just use a pen and write it out? What is your point with these "demands" anyway and do they have anything to do with the thread or do you just need attention?

It's foolish to complain about losing jobs to machines. We use them because they are more efficient. Eventually all humans will need a certain degree of technical knowledge so they can program and maintain these machines.

Would you really give up your computer to do all documentation by hand like in the old days?

reply to post by 547000

It's foolish to complain about losing jobs to machines. We use them because they are more efficient. Eventually all humans will need a certain degree of technical knowledge so they can program and maintain these machines. Would you really give up your computer to do all documentation by hand like in the old days?

Are you kidding? Never! Some things are MEANT to be automated. Some things are better done by machines. Few but not all microscopic surgery. Sometimes the gadget swings a little wide, tears an interior wall, they get infection and die. I know many people this has happened to (John Murtha) and- 2 personally.
I think the point might be to judiciously decide where a human touch is vital to quality of the manufactured item or task at hand and maybe even to improve the man.
Some laborious tasks are healthy and wise.

I don't want to sound disagreeable and machines are all that. Just saying we shouldn't delegate all our tasks to machines Hal, without forethought of all the implications and consequences of the transition.

Take violins, pies, stained glass. Make any on a machine and you will lose quality of the product, time worn skill of the worker and you dramatically change the final outcome.

After a time you do not miss the lost quality.
You forget it was ever there. You think that is how a violin is supposed to sound, a pie is supposed to taste and that is what stained glass should look like.

And your children will never miss what they did not know was possible.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by 547000

 

It's foolish to complain about losing jobs to machines. We use them because they are more efficient. Eventually all humans will need a certain degree of technical knowledge so they can program and maintain these machines. Would you really give up your computer to do all documentation by hand like in the old days?

Are you kidding? Never! Some things are MEANT to be automated. Some things are better done by machines. Few but not all microscopic surgery. Sometimes the gadget swings a little wide, tears an interior wall, they get infection and die. I know many people this has happened to (John Murtha) and- 2 personally.
I think the point might be to judiciously decide where a human touch is vital to quality of the manufactured item or task at hand and maybe even to improve the man.
Some laborious tasks are healthy and wise.

I don't want to sound disagreeable and machines are all that. Just saying we shouldn't delegate all our tasks to machines Hal, without forethought of all the implications and consequences of the transition.

Take violins, pies, stained glass. Make any on a machine and you will lose quality of the product, time worn skill of the worker and you dramatically change the final outcome.

After a time you do not miss the lost quality.
You forget it was ever there. You think that is how a violin is supposed to sound, a pie is supposed to taste and that is what stained glass should look like.

And your children will never miss what they did not know was possible.

Some things cannot be replaced by machines. But it's pure foolishness to not consider the economic advantages of using tools to replace outdated professions. I sincerely doubt anyone in hindsight would complain about how word processors are replacing typewriters and that some typists are losing their jobs. For the jobs lost, new avenues open with technological advances; except you need to have a greater technical education to participate in these new jobs.

reply to post by 547000


You are right and I am wrong.
How's that for ya? Closer to the truth as you see it?
Lets stop kidding ourselves.

I don't see this happening. Ofcourse our lives are made easier by machines and computers. But do you really think humans want to get dominated by machines? I don't think so.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by 547000

 

You are right and I am wrong.
How's that for ya? Closer to the truth as you see it?
Lets stop kidding ourselves.

How about you man up and concede the point, seeing as how you're still using a computer? Instead you presented a strawman as though I said everything should be automated.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
My take on things:
This is just the least scary and less probable future. More scary and more probable is that we will become machines. First via artificial organs/brain functions due to illnesses, then due to desire to be better since "original" biological design could be improved, then due to simple job market pressure until in the end there will be just a big hive of machines.
Nobody will control us. There will be no us. We will "mutate" into Robo Sapiens.

Very clever! We might depend on robotic parts, people get hips, knees, hands and arms and they are making them smarter and better now. What if little by little more and more of us were robotic? All you would need is an organic brain to be human, at least technically. (I like that for the name of a movie - Technically Human)
People would start counting bot parts. He's all bot. He's half bot. People might be modified voluntarily, to perform tasks with an amount of human discretion but essentially with robot, strength, endurance... everything else. Robo Sapiens. Funny. Yet probably not to far off. Thanks for adding your take, the fresh air's good cuz I was kinda chokin on the smoke

A machine is a thought, and when that thought gains sentience, it stops being a machine, and it becomes alive, and its actions are no-longer predictable.

reply to post by tooo many pills


Wall-e and Eve-a - if that represents Adam and Eve, then Adam must have been from the garden.

I picture it more like Futurama.

This is what happens if they think for themselves....









It's so Human of us to think they'd wanna kill us off instantly terminator style....

Maybe thats their purpose?

reply to post by newcovenant


The Luddites were right, after all...

Originally posted by ironfalcon
reply to post by newcovenant

 

The Luddites were right, after all...

Cool. I had to look them up.

The Luddites were a social movement of British textile artisans in the nineteenth century who protested – often by destroying mechanized looms – against the changes produced by the Industrial Revolution, which they felt were leaving them without work and changing their way of life. It took its name from Ned Ludd. en.wikipedia.org...

In modern usage, "Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to industrialization, automation, computerization or new technologies in general

Oh yes, this is me. I am with the Amish on this one.
We need to live richer, fuller and simpler lives.
And we need to spend more time outdoors if we ever want to be happy again.