reply to post by madnessinmysoul
Well most creationists don't really make a good argument because they misread the Bible, but none of this is really against what the Bible says. The
Bible doesn't use the word species and there's nothing in the Bible that would prevent new species from popping up. Regardless of what the
creationists tell you. The Bible just says that new animals won't be created in one single step.
A species isn't a real hard thing. It's a subjective classification system scientists made up for the purpose of organizing the animals how they wish
to organize them. Currently they organize them into groups we call species and we draw that line over different things.
Like if two animals can longer mate, sometimes we'll say they're two different species. However, other times even though two animals CAN still mate
we'll still call them a different species. Sometimes animals don't mate at all, but they're still a species based on other genetic traits. But none of
that is really important. They could have divided them up based on size or color or whatever. They decided to go with this species classification
system because that system was useful to them.
It doesn't mean it was some mystical magical truth to the universe. It's just a useful system.
This is how a classification system works. You look at different traits of things that you're trying to classify. You decide which ones are important.
Then you use those to divide things into categories. Like books have categories like sci-fi, fiction, biography and so forth.
The point is, that it is YOU that's making up the classification system. When it comes to biologists they decided what an animal can and can't mate
with is a good trait for their classification system. It may seem logical, but it's not even a prefect system yet. There's animals that can mate with
each other that are actually considered different species still for example.
The point is, it's just a system we invented and it isn't perfect. It's not some mystical magical truth to the universe lol. It's not the only system
that could have been used. For example I may choose to organize my books alphabetically by title, and not by category. It's just a different system,
it's not wrong. It's just different.
For example, I highly doubt you have the files on your computer organized the same way I have the files on my computer organized. My file
classification system suits my needs, and your system suits your needs. But that doesn't mean my system is wrong or your system is wrong. They're just
The scientists picked the species system because they're obsessed with dividing different animals into different groups. I don't know why they're
obsessed with that, but whatever. As long as it works for them that's fine and all, but it has nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible doesn't use the
species system. It doesn't use any system at all. The closest the Bible comes to organizing the animals is by what type of feet they had or if they
were ritually clean or unclean, sometimes based on their feet lol.
The Bible isn't obsessed with dividing the animals up like scientists are. They're all God's creatures. God knew new creatures would come, probably
planned it that way so animals could adapt to different environments, and knew that some of them don't even have all the traits you would need to
classify them sometimes. Like some animals don't mate. Some animals don't climb, some fly, some don't.
Any classification system you come up with probably has a flaw due to some missing trait in some animal. So, God didn't even bother trying to come up
with some obsessive classification system. He just said, they're all animals. They're all God's creatures.
See the truth is, you don't have to go a million years to see evolution at work. Every single animal has genetic differences than its parent does. You
could say that every single animal is like its own miniature species and example of evolution (adaptation) at work. Every single one of us has genetic
differences. In truth, each person is really his own animal . No one else has your exact genetic make up. We're not clones of each other. Evolution
happens every generation even if just on a very small level.
So why don't the scientists just say, we're all a different species? Every single human has genetic differences. Why aren't we all our own species?
Well the answer is simple. Because scientists don't want to do that. It really is that simple. They're the ones that decide how much different you
have to be before you're put into a genetic box of their liking.
But the truth is, it's not a box. It's gradient that changes gradually over time and we all fit on different spots on that gradient. The scientists
for whatever reason are just obsessed with drawing lines on the gradients for whatever reason. Okay, sure whatever, but that stuff isn't really
important to me. I don't give a crap where they draw the lines and the Bible doesn't either.
There's nothing wrong with all that. But the problem is when they try to project that on the Bible saying that the Bible should use the same
classification system. That's where the problem starts. But that's nonsense.
When you try to mix classification systems you get into problems. When you try to say the Bible is wrong because it didn't organize the animals the
same way we did, that's where it all stops making sense. That would be just like saying you organized the files on your computer system wrong, cause
they're not how I would have done it lol. Neither one of us is wrong, we're just doing it two different ways. Who cares how I did it right?
It would be no different than organizing the animals by color and then saying the Bible is wrong because a green bird gave birth to a blue bird lol.
So what? The Bible never said anything about what color birds would be. It didn't organize things by color.
It never said anything about species either. So where do they get off saying the Bible is wrong because new species form? So what? Show me in the
Bible where it says new species wouldn't be born?
All it says is each animal will give birth to the same kind of animal as it. Now it's important you understand the context. The context is a FARMING
context. This was information being given to the first FARMERS, Adam and Eve that were soon to be kicked out of the garden where they would have to
FARM. Read the story again with this context in mind. The context of farming. That's what most people miss.
It doesn't mean new animals won't exist. The context of that is to show that each mother will be able to take care of
its offspring and be the same kind in the context of farming. That's all it means.
For example a humming bird wouldn't give birth to a panda bear lol. There is no way that a mother humming bird could take care of a panda bear. When
it says the same kind, it means that your offspring will be the same kind as you, in that you'll be able to raise it. Or that if you take seeds from a
plant you'll be able to grow more of that plant. It doesn't mean your offspring would wouldn't have any genetic differences whatsoever over the long
It was just to teach people that reproduction isn't completely random. That animals didn't just pop out nowhere. If a farmer needed another goat, he
had to mate two goats to get it. Not a horse and an antelope. If he wanted more of a certain plant, he had to use seeds from that plant and so on.
That's is ALL it meant.
It doesn't even say that the grand child will be the same kind as the grand parent either. It only goes one generation deep. It just says the child
will be the same kind as the parent in the context that a parent will be able to raise the offspring or that you could mate two animals and get
another animal like it, in a FARMING context.
It doesn't mean the species won't have genetic differences over the long haul, like a million years. It just means that each direct parent, the
creature that gave birth to you will be the same kind in the context of farming.
That's why these ring videos you post have nothing to do with the Bible. Sure they have two different lines that became a different species over time,
but every single one of those birds, their direct PARENTS, the birds that gave birth to them, was the same kind. Sure bird 2,002 may have been a
different species than bird 1, but it was still the same kind as bird 2,001. It's a gradient that changes over time. The Bible and science don't
actually disagree here.
The Bible never says there won't be new animals, just that along the way, that each animal on that path will give birth to the same kind of animal.
Now this is no different from what evolution says.
You could say, hey wait? How is it possible that an animal could always give birth to the same kind of animal as it, yet still end up with new animals
in the end? Well see that's how cool God is. Even though two birds mate and pretty much always gives birth to birds he designed it so that we could
still somehow get new animals out of it too eventually.
How does it work? Dunno, go ask the scientists because they're saying the SAME THING. Yes, that's correct, the Bible and evolution are in agreement on
It's no different than the ring video you just posted. Each mother bird gave birth to a bird of the same kind and could take care of its young yet in
the end we still end up with two different kinds of birds. It's a magnificent miracle and in no way against what the Bible says. The Bible only goes
one generation in. It doesn't say anything about what happens if the animals split off into two different lines.
It never says the offspring has no genetic differences. Just that for FARMING purposes that if you mate two animals you'll get another one of those,
and not some other random animal, like a Panda bear out of two horses.
So you want to know what the Bible means by kinds? Here, I'll give you a good definition. A kind is how you would organize animals on a farm. You
would put the sheep in the sheep pen, the horses in the stable and so forth. That's a kind. In the context of farming, no farmer is ever going to mate
two horses and end up with something that goes in the sheep pen.
Now maybe after a few hundred thousand years you'll get an entirely different animal gradually that doesn't fit in the stables anymore, but the farmer
will be long dead by the time that happens, and the farmers that come after him will never really notice. It'll just be this gradual thing as farming
adapts over time as well and they find new uses for different animals.
edit on 5-6-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason
edit on 5-6-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)