during solar eclipses there is a change in gravity

full credit goes to bigfatfurrytexan for bringing this to my attension
thanks
strange results from a Foucault Pendulum experiment during eclipses has giving a strange window into the affect that a solar eclipse has on the earth.





the Foucault Pendulum experiment show that something "unexpected" happens during a solar eclipse




what happend was leading up to an eclipse the motion of the pendulum changed the direction it was "swinging".
these pendulums are capable of swinging in more than one "plane" of motion.

as the earth rotates around the "plane" that the weight swings in "shifts" very slowly so that the direction of the "swing" moves around the center point.

what happens next is the strange bit
during an experiment during a solar eclipse the weight "shifted" much more than it should have and the "plane" the weight was shifting in "changed" abrubtly

Left: The eclipse and the pendulum - How the pendulum's swing angle changed during the 1954 eclipse. In an American J. of Physics (58, 530, 1990; G.T. Gillies) review, the summary of Allais' work reads: "A physicist (who later won a Nobel prize in economics) finds a gravitational anisotropy at the level of 5 micro-G. (5x10-6 ).

The plane of the oscillation of the pendulum shifted approximately 15 centesimal degrees during the eclipse (approximately 13.5 degrees). An azimuthal curve traced for the period extending from June 28, 1954 (8 p.m.) to July 1, 1954 (4 p.m.).

NASA

The pendulum keeps its initial line of swing, while the Earth rotates underneath it and sweeps out a clock face rotation that depends on the observer's distance from the equator.

same source

Total eclipses of the Sun by the Moon reach maximum eclipse about 40 seconds before the Sun and Moon's gravitational forces align. If gravity is a propagating force, this 3-body (Sun-Moon-Earth) test implies that gravity propagates at least 20 times faster than light.

The Earth accelerates toward a point 20 arc seconds in front of the visible Sun, where the Sun will appear to be in 8.3 minutes. Thus, the acceleration now is toward the true, instantaneous direction of the Sun now, and is not parallel to the direction of the arriving solar photons now.

link to source

so it is asumed that gravity is 20 times faster than light in this paper linked from the nasa site

and its not just gravity that is affected it might also be time.

Zhou, S. W.; Huang, B. J., "Abnormalities of the time comparisons of atomic clocks during the solar eclipses", Nuovo Cimento C, vol. 15 C, no. 2, Mar.-Apr. 1992, p. 133-137.] Time comparisons of two atomic clocks were made during the solar eclipses of September 23, 1987, March 18, 1988, and July 22, 1990. Abnormal variations of the time comparisons during the solar eclipses are confirmed, not only on a comparison clock pair, but also on many comparison clock pairs by means of three different methods during three solar eclipses.

same source

so time is affected or at least the mecanism of recording time (atomic clock) was effected
very strange

Perhaps the most revealing instances, other than the nearly 2-1/2 hours of observations centered on the partial eclipses, would be the four significant contacts in any eclipse: first (point of initial optical alignment), second (totality), third (point of initial optical departure), and fourth (end). Freeze frames of the pendulums on these instances are the first steps to understanding the data. .

same source

Demonstration of Foucault effect; Kremsm端nster Observatory, Austria, August 11, 1999. Rotation is shown at the maximum in pendulum (shown as round shadow with smaller laser target; back and forth swing motion not shown). The marks shown radiating beneath the pendulum itself are hourly tick marks for ideal pendulum behavior. This particular set of images shows the approximately doubling of the forward rotation (30 minutes per tick mark). Universal time is shown at lower right. The thirty-minute image separation demonstrates that the floor is moving underneath the pendulum which always keeps its initial swing direction while the earth rotates. At this latitude, the rotation from right to left in the image is approximately 11.2 degrees per hour.

same source

at this point i am surprised that i had not heard this before
as this could be used to confirm some theories of gravity


xploder

All that information you have just unearthed is absolutely marvelous. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It really makes me question gravity and see it in a different manner.
On a second note, I'd really love to make one of those pendulums! I don't get how it's able to keep swinging freely though without having to keep pushing it. Because if you had to keep pushing it, I would imagine that would distort the initial plane and ruin the whole point of using it to track earth movements.
It's absolutely mind blowing though to think how that pendulum is directly related to how our earth, solar system, and galaxy are all moving through time, space, and different fields of gravity

Pendulums are subject to outside influences, there are more accurate instruments available. From a group attempting (in 2006) to duplicate the results of previous experiments carried out with pendulums but using highly sensitive graviometers. They found an effect but much less than that claimed by experiments with pendulums.

Gravitational and other anomalies seen repeatedly in connection with solar eclipses have led to speculation about a possible gravitational shielding effect as the cause. Here we show that an unusual phenomenon that occurs only during solar eclipses, rapid air mass movement for the bulk of the atmosphere above normal cloud levels, appears to be a sufficient explanation for both the magnitude and behavior of the anomaly previously reported in these pages.

www.eclipse2006.boun.edu.tr...
Their conclusion is that any changes in Earth's gravity field are so slight that they can be attributed to movements in the air mass overhead. They claim to have shown that the results of the pendulum experiments are invalid.


An experiment in 1999 found no variation outside of normal of clock rates.

Previous reports on detected influences of solar eclipses on atomic clocks and the movement of pendulums have brought up speculations that some yet undetected gravitational shielding effect exists. We have compared the relative pace of three types of atomic clocks, based on the ground state hyperfine transitions of hydrogen, rubidium and cesium during the total solar eclipse on 11th of August 1999 over central Europe. In our experiment, no anomalous changes in the relative clock rates correlated with the eclipse were found, at a level much smaller than previously reported.

www.mpq.mpg.de...

reply to post by Phage

Gravitational and other anomalies seen repeatedly in connection with solar eclipses have led to speculation about a possible gravitational shielding effect as the cause. Here we show that an unusual phenomenon that occurs only during solar eclipses, rapid air mass movement for the bulk of the atmosphere above normal cloud levels, appears to be a sufficient explanation for both the magnitude and behavior of the anomaly previously reported in these pages

so this affect can be descibed as a "slosh" air high up air changing directions
because the moon is blocking the solar wind?
is it temperature related of is it the "lull" in the solar wind?

or is it that the earth "moves in relation to the moon" for a short period while the moon is infront of the sun?
kina like some sort of gravitational "tidal lock" that transfers momentum between the "tidally locked bodies"

i realise there are other sensors that have been used in the detection of the phenomonon
and wounder if the pendulum is different because of the motion involved

edit to add thanks for clearing up the matter of time deviation as that was a bit "unsettling"
lol


xploder

This may be a silly question, but wouldn't the results be the same as when it is night time; when the earth is blocking the suns gravity on this side of the earth?

reply to post by XPLodER

It has nothing to do with the solar wind. It is related to a rapid temperature change brought about by the sudden loss of sunlight.

Originally posted by QuantumPhysicist
All that information you have just unearthed is absolutely marvelous. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It really makes me question gravity and see it in a different manner.
On a second note, I'd really love to make one of those pendulums! I don't get how it's able to keep swinging freely though without having to keep pushing it. Because if you had to keep pushing it, I would imagine that would distort the initial plane and ruin the whole point of using it to track earth movements.
It's absolutely mind blowing though to think how that pendulum is directly related to how our earth, solar system, and galaxy are all moving through time, space, and different fields of gravity

kudos to bigfatfurrytexan for finding the info

im still trying to find details of which experiments show positive results
this is indeed very very interesting
and it adds to the puzzel of gravity
interesting if it could be explained with "shifting air mass"
i have read that during eclipses the wind can change
but IMHO this is a down stream effect and not the cause of the "apparent" motion change

it will take a while to form an opinion
but i am nearly ready to explain it with two seperate processes

xploder

Originally posted by Tasty Canadian
This may be a silly question, but wouldn't the results be the same as when it is night time; when the earth is blocking the suns gravity on this side of the earth?

this is a fantastic question and i think gets right at the crux of the issue

what follows is PURE SPECULATION by me xploder

if the effect is generated by the sun and the moon blocks the earth from the source of the "energy" and disturbs the solar wind around the earth then this would explain the anomoly
i would like to try a diagram and a theory

there is something other than the solar wind coming from the sun,
usually this "energy" goes directly into the earth and at its core is re-expressed outwards from center,
normally the moon gets its "energy" from the earth and the sun
by being in between the earth and the sun, the moon "cuts off" some of the energy being expressed at the core of the earth,



and while in eclipse the core of the moon expresses more energy than normal and is propotional to the loss of "expressed" energy from the earth, almost like the mass center of the earth moon gravitational interaction shifts a little from the earth to the moon (think double pedulum movement) but only while the moon blocks the "energy" from the sun.

the second idea that springs to mind
is an effect found in gasses called the venturi effect
www.abovetopsecret.com...
it basically goes like this

if a "thickness" of gas cannot pass between two objects fast enough, a low pressure area is formed between them. this low pressure area "draws" the two objects together.
if the two objects are in orbit and one object is directly infront of the other with the source of the flow behind,
the eclipsing object "disturbs" the "flow" of gasses to the second "ecliped" object.

when we add the "venturi effect" and centipedal forces the two forces "may" be equal except for when the first object is directly between the source of flow and the observer "solar eclipse" and if correct the same type of thing would take place on the other object when it is eclipsed by the observers object

it could be attributed to the disturbed flow of gasses from source

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


The only theory I have for the pendulum fluctuation is that perhaps gravity can fluctuate when two heavenly bodies cross each other and reach that perfect equilibrium where both their masses are perfectly parallel to each other in relation to the earth. And when I say "masses", I don't mean just the bodies themselves look like they line up. I mean specifically when each atom density in the sun reaches exact equilibrium with every atom density in the moon, all in relation to where the direction of the earth is.
Sort of like the sun by itself has mass A, and the moon has mass B. When both masses are directly parallel, they can amplify the gravitational pull in the given direction that AB have lined up with- i.e our earth(and although much more minuscule, more specifically when they come in direct relation to the pendulum)

Of course this is all just theory and whatever popped out of my head when I read your thread lol

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by XPLodER

 

It has nothing to do with the solar wind. It is related to a rapid temperature change brought about by the sudden loss of sunlight.

its very interesting that so many experiments have been carried out on this subject
yet no real definitive answers seem to "stand out"
i have been trying to understand how air in the upper atmosphere moving
can affect the rotation of the earth?
the pendulum cares not of the shifting air in the upper atmosphere,
so how does the explination fit the evidence?
does the air moving change the rotation of the earth?

does the earths orbit alter while the eclipse is happening?
does the earths rotation alter while the eclipse is happening?

thank you in advance

xploder

Originally posted by QuantumPhysicist
reply to post by XPLodER

 

The only theory I have for the pendulum fluctuation is that perhaps gravity can fluctuate when two heavenly bodies cross each other and reach that perfect equilibrium where both their masses are perfectly parallel to each other in relation to the earth. And when I say "masses", I don't mean just the bodies themselves look like they line up. I mean specifically when each atom density in the sun reaches exact equilibrium with every atom density in the moon, all in relation to where the direction of the earth is.
Sort of like the sun by itself has mass A, and the moon has mass B. When both masses are directly parallel, they can amplify the gravitational pull in the given direction that AB have lined up with- i.e our earth(and although much more minuscule, more specifically when they come in direct relation to the pendulum)

Of course this is all just theory and whatever popped out of my head when I read your thread lol

your theory is more than welcome on this thread
no one really knows what is causing this effect so please feel free to speculate
on this subject

i quite like your approach
the factoring together of three planetary bodies gravitationally
elegent star

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

No. Moving air does not affect the rotation of the Earth but it can affect a pendulum which is not properly isolated.

So experiments that were shielded only from temperature changes but not pressure changes may have experienced an extra and unexpected driving force from local air movement perhaps responsible for these changes, whereas other experiments with better controls would not have experienced them. This is also consistent with the pendulum effect showing up most often in the early experiments, but having no unambiguous detections within the past 30 years when consciousness of the importance of controls was more widespread.

www.eclipse2006.boun.edu.tr...

reply to post by Phage


the link you supplyed shows a very small effect
from reading the NASA pages it sounded like the pendulum followed the rotation of the earth "around" the pendulum,
and when a large change in plane angle is found that would imply a proportional change in the rotational properties of the earth
or at least a fluctuation in something that can effect either
the mass and kenetic energy of the pendulum or
the earth and its rotation

i guess there might be out side factors but
its hard to reconsile that shifting air mass is the cause

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Thanks. We all know that if two masses physically added together, their gravitational effects would add together also. So who's to say that if two masses line up, that a gravitational effect cannot be linear? It'd make sense to me

reply to post by Phage


so i saw the pressure temperature density data and how it was effected by the movement of the "shadow front"
is this the disterbence that we are talking about here?
that the air density changed and the extra density effected the pendulums?

i guess if it was a local pressure increase there could be effects on the physical properties of the air that the pendulum was in therfore effeting the pendulum results and not the sensor type testors.

thank you for your patience
with this matter

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

But the relatively sharp changes in barometric pressure during an eclipse can certainly create local air mass movement at ground level, for example, into or out of a building.

The early experiments did not have sufficient controls to rule out other influences. Later experiments did not reproduce the results of the early experiments. The conclusion is that the early experimental results are not valid.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by XPLodER

 

But the relatively sharp changes in barometric pressure during an eclipse can certainly create local air mass movement at ground level, for example, into or out of a building.

The early experiments did not have sufficient controls to rule out other influences. Later experiments did not reproduce the results of the early experiments. The conclusion is that the early experimental results are not valid.

edit on 6/4/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

ok i see with the right controls in place the effect was removed and no further observences were recoreded
it makes sence that if the pendulums were to be used for measuring
temp humidity and pressure should be controlled
and the experiments that use these controls show the affect was not found

very interesting indeed

thanks phage

xploder

reply to post by Phage


Sorry if I'm being completely idiotic here but are you saying that temperature affects gravity? How so, providing that there isn't such a high temperature causing Earth's size to reduce etc?

reply to post by BlackPoison94

Not temperature directly.

The idea is that the mass of the air moving in response to the changes in temperature is enough to account for the minute local changes in gravity.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by BlackPoison94

 

Not temperature directly.

The idea is that the mass of the air moving in response to the changes in temperature is enough to account for the minute local changes in gravity.

edit on 6/4/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Ah that cleared it up. Thanks