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Cloud Seeding over Billings Montana.

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posted on May, 31 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Caintic
I know the debunkers are out in force tonight, but I've been waiting my 20 posts to finally post my own little story. Now I'm not going to claim this is "chem trails" nor do I think they are normal contrails either.



The date and time are with the photos so I'm not going to get into that. However not seen in the pics is the fact that I watched one jet do all of this. (Yes there is a major air port in Billings, and an air force base NW of here in Great Falls.)

Montana,WY, and North and South Dakota have been talking about cloud seeing for years now.Source

However since seeing this it's been raining here almost non stop. Billings its self has seen record amounts of rain fall, and other local towns have been flooding. Yes I know it's spring/summer time, and there is snow melt that factors into all this as well, but it's been ages since we've seen rain and flooding this bad in this area of the state.
Source
Could this be an example of cloud seeding gone bad? or could it be a test for weather mod. as a weapon??
I'm not saying it's either, just something to chew on.


edit on 30-5-2011 by Caintic because: for source add


That is not cloud seeding. How many times does it have to be explained, cloud seeding is done INSIDE of rain/snow storms. NOT in blue skies..Its cloud seeding, not blue sky seeding

Its not done at contrailing altitudes either. There ARE NO cloud seeding projects going on in Montana

edit on 31-5-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


I am going to have to respectfully disagree, and offer this report from the Billing Gazette. No offense, but I live in the area on the Montana/Wyoming state line and I am only about two hours from Billings. The fact is that cloud seeding has been going on in Montana and Wyoming for years, matter of fact, the earliest study and experiments with cloud seeding in Wyoming and Montana really started kicking off in 2006. Anyway here is bit from the article and a link to the rest of it in the Billings Gazette.


LARAMIE, Wyo. — After six years of one of the biggest cloud seeding research efforts in the country, results are “trending positive.

But Barry Lawrence, project manager of the Wyoming Water Development Commission’s cloud seeding program, can’t say exactly how big a difference it’s making.

“We are in the middle of the project. We have about 100 cases now, and (the scientists) want 200 cases before we can make some conclusions,” he said.

Lawrence originally hoped for between 40 and 50 cases, or times when cloud seeding can happen, but the scientists have found between 30 and 40 actually happen.

This year, they only did 24 in the Sierra Madres and Medicine Bow mountain ranges because of too much snow.

Cloud Seeding

So you see, there is cloud seeding going on in Montana and because agriculture is huge in Billings, I would not be at all suprised to see some of the project expanding to that area.

Also mentionable is the studies conducted and where they are:


The most recent ones include HIPLEX-1, a randomized cloud seeding experiment for rain augmentation carried out in Montana, and the North Dakota Cloud Modification Program, an operational project with dual objectives of rain augmentation and hail suppression. The evaluations are based on research aircraft, weather radar, and precipitation data along with cloud model simulations. Newly-developed non-parametric statistical techniques have been applied to elucidate the seeding effects.

www.ias.sdsmt.edu...


edit on 31-5-2011 by jerryznv because: add study...



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by firepilot
 


I am going to have to respectfully disagree, and offer this report from the Billing Gazette. No offense, but I live in the area on the Montana/Wyoming state line and I am only about two hours from Billings. The fact is that cloud seeding has been going on in Montana and Wyoming for years, matter of fact, the earliest study and experiments with cloud seeding in Wyoming and Montana really started kicking off in 2006. Anyway here is bit from the article and a link to the rest of it in the Billings Gazette.


LARAMIE, Wyo. — After six years of one of the biggest cloud seeding research efforts in the country, results are “trending positive.

But Barry Lawrence, project manager of the Wyoming Water Development Commission’s cloud seeding program, can’t say exactly how big a difference it’s making.

“We are in the middle of the project. We have about 100 cases now, and (the scientists) want 200 cases before we can make some conclusions,” he said.

Lawrence originally hoped for between 40 and 50 cases, or times when cloud seeding can happen, but the scientists have found between 30 and 40 actually happen.

This year, they only did 24 in the Sierra Madres and Medicine Bow mountain ranges because of too much snow.

Cloud Seeding

So you see, there is cloud seeding going on in Montana and because agriculture is huge in Billings, I would not be at all suprised to see some of the project expanding to that area.



Except for the fact that it is within Wyoming, and it does not even use aircraft for seeding anymore.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Ya I thought that you might bring that up. The projects origin is in Wyoming, but the the areas that were tested in this study, included (and do include) Montana, North Dakota, Colorado, and a small portion of South Dakota. I will look some more for the original funding proposal and link it for you too. Cloud seeding is not only happening in Montana, but it is a very active project right now.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by jerryznv
 

But cloud seeding does not look like that.
Those are contrails.
This is cloud seeding (from aircraft):
www.youtube.com...

edit on 5/31/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by firepilot
 


Ya I thought that you might bring that up. The projects origin is in Wyoming, but the the areas that were tested in this study, included (and do include) Montana, North Dakota, Colorado, and a small portion of South Dakota. I will look some more for the original funding proposal and link it for you too. Cloud seeding is not only happening in Montana, but it is a very active project right now.


None of that is correct.

The wyoming project is just in wyoming, here is the webpage about it with a map. Its not in montana
www.ral.ucar.edu...

And since aircraft are not even used on the seeding part of it anymore, its not even germaine to anything.

in addition, its already over with for the season.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


I am not disputing that cloud seeding does or does not look like that. I am simply saying that cloud seeding is very active in Montana...what it looks like is really of interest to me. Chemtrails, contrails, etc...that is for the other experts here...not me...I don't have a clue if there is/is not chemtrails, but I do know there is cloud seeding and that is all I am trying to point out.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by Phage
 


I am not disputing that cloud seeding does or does not look like that. I am simply saying that cloud seeding is very active in Montana...what it looks like is really of interest to me. Chemtrails, contrails, etc...that is for the other experts here...not me...I don't have a clue if there is/is not chemtrails, but I do know there is cloud seeding and that is all I am trying to point out.


Do you have a listing of those projects? The only one I know of, is only over the runway in Missoula for fog dispersal.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


What is not correct? That the funding went to the southeastern part of Montana too?

The map that is linked with this article is for the specific mountain ranges that they are talking about where the studies are currently being conducted.

Did you happen to look at this?


The most recent ones include HIPLEX-1, a randomized cloud seeding experiment for rain augmentation carried out in Montana, and the North Dakota Cloud Modification Program, an operational project with dual objectives of rain augmentation and hail suppression. The evaluations are based on research aircraft, weather radar, and precipitation data along with cloud model simulations. Newly-developed non-parametric statistical techniques have been applied to elucidate the seeding effects.


Why would they be monitoring Montana's seed clouding if it was not happening?
edit on 31-5-2011 by jerryznv because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by firepilot
 


What is not correct? That the funding went to the southeastern part of Montana too?

The map that is linked with this article is for the specific mountain ranges that they are talking about where the studies are currently being conducted.

Did you happen to look at this?


The most recent ones include HIPLEX-1, a randomized cloud seeding experiment for rain augmentation carried out in Montana, and the North Dakota Cloud Modification Program, an operational project with dual objectives of rain augmentation and hail suppression. The evaluations are based on research aircraft, weather radar, and precipitation data along with cloud model simulations. Newly-developed non-parametric statistical techniques have been applied to elucidate the seeding effects.


Why would they be monitoring Montana's seed clouding if it was not happening?
edit on 31-5-2011 by jerryznv because: (no reason given)


Ummm, that experiment for HIPLEX-1, was a single summer in 1979.

You stil have not provided any proof of ongoing projects in Montana, because I honestly do not know of anything going on there, other than the missoula airport cloud seeding.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Ok you win...I don't know (or can not offer proof) of any cloud seeding operations in Montana either.

It must not exsist except in the airport that your referancing...all the rest of it has been done away with apparently and I am under the misunderstanding that they were included in the Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Colorado funding.

Sorry to have wasted your time with my mis-information.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by firepilot
 


Ok you win...I don't know (or can not offer proof) of any cloud seeding operations in Montana either.

It must not exsist except in the airport that your referancing...all the rest of it has been done away with apparently and I am under the misunderstanding that they were included in the Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Colorado funding.

Sorry to have wasted your time with my mis-information.



I work in the cloud seeding business, and I really honestly do not know of anything going on in Montana besides the Missoula airport dog seeding. The North Dakota project used to be allowed to seed with small planes, over the very eastern part of Montana next to the border, as part of the North Dakota rain/hail project, but that has not been allowed in years.

I think Wyoming used an airplane for the first 2-3 years for seeding of their current project, but now their project is totally ground seeding equipment on the upslopes of those two mountain ranges. Thats ended anyways for this year.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


Well I will admit that I know very little about seeding clouds or the operations that are current or past in the state of Montana, but I do live close to the state line and I watch the Wyoming goverment pretty close, so when it comes to fedral, or state funding for anything I am usually on top of it.

In this case I thought (and I should point out that I don't always know...imagine that) that when the last bill was proposed for further funding for seed clouding, and it's testing, I could almost swear that southeastern Montana was included in that proposal (that passed), and the money was allocated for just those purposes.

The three, sometimes four, states work very closely most of the time because it is such an unpopulated area and things seem to get done when everyone has the same agenda, not always, but most of the time.

Either way, I can not offer proof of any cloud seeding projects in Montana at this time...and to be honest...I am going to have to make some phone calls to see if I am just flat out dead wrong, or if they just are not disclosed to the public. Alot of private companys that seed clouds don't share it widely with the world, so I am going to have to just admit I am not sure right now.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Seagle
reply to post by jerryznv
 


Your wasting your time arguing with that fool. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and proves it time and time again.

The most ludicrous thing about these people arguing that cloud seeding cannot leave this type of trail is that they can understand how a Contrail forms but they can't comprehend how a similar trail could possibly form when you are purposely releasing or burning hygrospic particles for that very purpose.

Also, for the record, the days of cloud seeding operations being restricted to seeding exisitng cloud systems are over. That is why it is a booming industry again all around the world, now it works and it is almost forced upon many US by blackmail. Example, states along the colorado river that do not have an annual cloud seeding program no longer have access to water reserves should they be needed.

These people think the white lines on the road are contrails so take nothing they say as fact.

And Im going to bed so don't bother responding withy your nonsense fp beacause I have no intention of reading it.


Ahh yes, what would a cloud seeding discussion be without you telling people who actually work in that, that they have no idea what they are talking about, and you, who has absolutely no experince with flying or cloud seeding, that somehow you know more than the people who actually do it.

Its not forced on other countries by blackmail? Thats just stupid.

Hygroscopic flares do not make big giant trails either. Ever seen them from inside the airplane? I have, I have burned hundreds of them in seeding.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by jerryznv
reply to post by firepilot
 


Well I will admit that I know very little about seeding clouds or the operations that are current or past in the state of Montana, but I do live close to the state line and I watch the Wyoming goverment pretty close, so when it comes to fedral, or state funding for anything I am usually on top of it.

In this case I thought (and I should point out that I don't always know...imagine that) that when the last bill was proposed for further funding for seed clouding, and it's testing, I could almost swear that southeastern Montana was included in that proposal (that passed), and the money was allocated for just those purposes.

The three, sometimes four, states work very closely most of the time because it is such an unpopulated area and things seem to get done when everyone has the same agenda, not always, but most of the time.

Either way, I can not offer proof of any cloud seeding projects in Montana at this time...and to be honest...I am going to have to make some phone calls to see if I am just flat out dead wrong, or if they just are not disclosed to the public. Alot of private companys that seed clouds don't share it widely with the world, so I am going to have to just admit I am not sure right now.


I really do not think there is anything going on in Montana, and that Wyoming project is so far away from MT, and its only winter seeding for snowpack.

Contrary to what others say, cloud seeding is certainly not some booming industry. There are actually much less projects than there used to be in the past. I think the Wyoming project is more research than anything else. The Idaho and Caifornia projects, are funded by power companies who want more water uphill as snowpack, that melts and then runs into resevoirs, and then through power turbines for electricity. But I only know of 3-4 twin Cessnas in Cali for that in the winter and I know of 1 King Air in Idaho for the winter.

Texas and Oklahoma used to have more summer cloud seeding projects, again using light twin engine prop planes, but they are less than before too.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Seagle
reply to post by jerryznv
 

The most ludicrous thing about these people arguing that cloud seeding cannot leave this type of trail is that they can understand how a Contrail forms but they can't comprehend how a similar trail could possibly form when you are purposely releasing or burning hygrospic particles for that very purpose.


Most cloud seeding is not done at high enough altitudes to form contrails.



Originally posted by Seagle
Also, for the record, the days of cloud seeding operations being restricted to seeding exisitng cloud systems are over.


Huh?? How can you seed clouds without existing clouds??


Cloud seeding is NOT chemtrails! Stop trying to change the known definition of chemtrails!



en.wikipedia.org...


The term chemtrail is derived from "chemical trail" in the similar fashion that contrail is a portmanteau of condensation trail. It does not refer to common forms of aerial spraying such as crop dusting, cloud seeding, skywriting, or aerial firefighting.


This whole chemtrail conspiracy and the people that support it are becoming more ridiculous by the day. They are stretching and grasping at straws so bad that they are now trying to claim chemtrails are real because cloud seeding, skywriting, aerial firefighting and crop dusting are real.... it is STUPID.
edit on 31-5-2011 by 0ne110ne because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by 0ne110ne
 


I am not an expert as I said but it seems that you have got this right: "How can you seed clouds if there is no clouds"? I am not a saying anything about chemtrails at all because I really have no idea about them (there seems to be no proof either supporting and/or disproving them...in my opinion).

You are correct though that cloud seeding is not cloud making, and the idea is silly to me that seeding clouds on a cloudless day would even pass the common sense test (I should probably expect a good thrashing for this remark), but seriously, How do you seed clouds that are not there?

Never has made sense, and still does not make any sense...but hey it's ATS and conspiracy is born in the most unusual way here.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Huh?? How can you seed clouds without existing clouds??


Exactly, Funny how someone with absolutely no experience in cloud seeding and weather research, who takes their information primarily from conspiracy sites, somehow in his own mind thinks he knows more about it then the professionals who actually work in it.

I think he onces claimed that a certain cloud seeding company bought 200 million dollars of airplanes to seed with recently. He has made other wild claims too about cloud seeding, that are not grounded in reality.

I have flown on several cloud seeding projects, in different US states and in other countries, even took part in two documentaries about it also, both for the BBC.

And if there is anything at all that is absolutely required, clouds with water droplets, and especially supercooled water when seeding with silver iodide. And with the newer but still experimental hygroscopic flares, those work differently but still require clouds in order to have a chance to work.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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If you all would look at the later pics you will noticed there are clouds. Just because the first few pics do not show any clouds dose not mean there were not clouds in the sky.

Also if there is no weather modification or cloud seeding going on in Montana would there really be need for a permit to even be available ?
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