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Forced secularization being used by radical Muslims to bring about Sharia law.

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posted on May, 30 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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The tiny country of Malta is set to vote on whether to legalize divorce soon. Some fear that radical Muslims will use this as an opening to promote Sharia law as radical Muslims see the secularization of Western society as an opening for them to promote their agenda.


If Malta votes divorce, some fear the winner will be radical Islam

European and American experts say changing Malta's divorce ban would show weakness to radical Muslims, who could capitalize on the island's drift toward secularism to push for Islamic laws.

“Forced secularism is a gift to the radical Muslims,” said Stephen Schwartz, a U.S. author and researcher on the Islamic world. “They have the perspective that confusion and secularization is good among the Christians.”

“Everybody has reason to be worried about radical Islam, and this is an issue of radical Islam,” said Schwartz, founder of the Washington-based Center for Islamic Pluralism. “My opinion is: Malta should not change its divorce laws.”

Schwartz says de-Christianizing Malta's laws could have even more troubling effects – by giving Islamic extremists a foothold to agitate for the practice of Islamic law.

“The moderate would say, 'Let Malta be Malta – don't change the divorce law,'” he stated. On the other hand, “a radical would see as much confusion as possible among the non-Muslims as good for the Muslims.”

Schwartz, who belongs to the moderate Hanafi school of Islam, believes that preachers from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia may be planning to spread radical Islam in Malta — under the guise of helping Libyan and Tunisian refugees.

“‘Oh, now that they've left Christianity, they're fair game for us’ – that's not the moderate position, but that is the radical position,”Schwartz explained.

Schwartz’s concerns are echoed by a leading European expert on culture and religion.

“The idea that Muslims in Malta may benefit from the divorce law is not among the main topics on the agenda,” said Massimo Introvigne, founder of the Center for Studies on New Religions in Turin, Italy. “Nonetheless, some portions of the Muslim community are quite quick in taking advantage of legal innovations which have nothing to do with Islam.”

He pointed to a case several years ago in the European Court of Human Rights. Muslim organizations petitioned the court to recognize polygamy in the United Kingdom, arguing that laws against the practice violated their religious liberty.

At the time, the U.K. had not yet introduced its same-sex “civil partnerships,” and the Muslim organizations lost their case.

However, same-sex partnerships have since been legalized in the U.K., so the Muslims are once more pursuing their claim. As Introvigne summarizes it, their argument is based precisely on the breakdown of traditional definitions of marriage: “That time, we lost the case because it was said that in the U.K. there is traditionally only one form of marriage. But now that there are two, with the inclusion of same-sex marriage, why not three?”

A similar situation could follow for Malta, if it chooses to permit divorce, Introvigne said.

“Some Muslim organizations may eventually take advantage of this for recognizing the practice of ‘repudiating’ women, which prevails under Islamic law.” The practices involves automatic divorce, by a husband's decree.

“I'm personally very much against the referendum on divorce in Malta, and I feel very strongly in favor of those who resist it,” Introvigne said. “I see the merit of those who are afraid that recognizing divorce in Malta may open the way for Islamic divorce.”

Introvigne said that Europe has followed a pattern of first legalizing divorce, then abortion, then same-sex marriage. Eventually, countries have no grounds to object when radical Muslims push for the practice of Sharia law as a form of legal “diversity.” That idea has already met with approval in some places in the U.K. and Australia.

Read more: EWTN News


If they are successful in implementing some Sharia law measures, it seems they will not be satisfied until they turn the whole world into a Muslim theocracy. As a member of the Muslim Brotherhood has said:


But Choudary, now Chief Judge at the “Sharia Court of the UK,” told CNA that he was not interested in half-measures such as the introduction of divorce. From his perspective, any government that fails to incorporate the whole of the Qur'an as the only law of the land is illegitimate.

“Even if, for example, (British Prime Minister) David Cameron decided tomorrow to cut the hands off of thieves, it would still not be Islamic law,” Choudary stated. “Because he wouldn't be doing it in response to the divine text.”

“We have no obedience to man-made law in the first place,”said Choudary, expressing a position that is gaining strength on Islam's radical fringe. “It all needs to be removed, and replaced by the Sharia.”



This is a scary situation but, I do have to say; it is very refreshing to see a moderate Muslim speaking out against the methods used by the radicals.






edit on 5/30/11 by FortAnthem because:
_______________________




posted on May, 31 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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The vote already happened on the 29th, and yeah, they voted for divorce.

Whatever the reasonings, the majority of the people (of a 72% turnout) decided they want divorce, and it probably makes life much easier for them. Yay to them, is all I can say. Much of the western world has had divorce since the reformation, and if that was all that was stopping Islam from conquering the world, they'd have done it long ago.


Not everything is a conspiracy by radical muslims to conquer the world
.


EDIT: Link: www.bbc.co.uk...
edit on 31-5-2011 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


You may find it refreshing to hear a moderate muslim speak out against islamic extremism, i believe it is too little too late. Further more my current personal belief is that moderate islam is so rare it barely exists.
Only as an exception to the rule.
The average male,western, quiet, unassuming, just want to live in peace and provide for my family muslim secretly dreams of seeing their holy text come to fruition in the form of a global islamic theocracy!!



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by lestweforget
 



moderate islam is so rare it barely exists.


Damn you need to get out in the world and go meet some Muslims if thats what you believe. That's so biggotted and small minded a statement it makes me feel sorry for you. Unfortunately there are many of you that believe such a thing on both sides; radical westerners believing all Muslims are out to get them and want to control the world, and radical Islamists believing all westerners are out to get them and control the world. Your attitude is actually as much a part of the problem as the extremeists on the other side!

The average Muslim wants to live their life in peace and provide for their family just like the rest of us.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by lestweforget
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


moderate islam is so rare it barely exists.


Funny, I've been muslim all my life and I think "radical islam" is so rare that it barely exists. The media can make anybody look like a worldwide cartel consisting of hundreds of MILLIONS of members. It clearly works on people like you.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 



really, it has not one thing to do with the hundreds of deaths.

ya, .00002% out of 1.8bl people is just, what? a handful? then they kill themselves and expect us to believe they will die out?


i look stupid but i ain't.

sharia's kill em all is ok.

i will roll wit dat.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by fooks
 


...........................................what???



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Apart from the obvious polarization of fabulating extremist groups to be representative of their ideologies and thus creating a false justification for your own extremism, your post contains an implication, which is just as dangerous.

You seem to suggest, that the only 'defense' against your fabricated 'enemy' is some version of re-introduction of christian values. Which ofcourse means that egalitarian, liberal, secular democracy is inferior in the context of your orchestrated overall conflict.

That you're so demagogically manipulative (but naive) in your agenda, that you won't state openly, that the result of your propaganda would be a return to christian theocracy, is pathetic.

Anyone with the smallest knowledge of ideology can see your intention. Who do you think, you're fooling?

Save us from more extremist phobias.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by FortAnthem
 



That you're so demagogically manipulative (but naive) in your agenda, that you won't state openly, that the result of your propaganda would be a return to christian theocracy, is pathetic.

Anyone with the smallest knowledge of ideology can see your intention. Who do you think, you're fooling?

Save us from more extremist phobias.




Hell, I ain't trying to fool anyone. Check my posting history and you will see that I have come right out and supported a Catholic confessional state in America and replacing our out of control democracy with a good old fashioned Monarchy.



Sure, you may disagree with my agenda (heck, I expect most everybody here does) but, you have to admit, the article does have a point. The secularists are fighting hard right now to free themselves from what they see as Christian oppression but, what they don't see is that by destroying the Christian roots of European culture they are creating a vaccuum which the radical Muslims seek to capitalize on to further their agenda to bring about Sharia law in the EU. They are using the cultural confusion created by the destruction of age old institutions to raise up Sharia law definitions of those institutions in their place.

The secularists are soo blinded by their ambition of throwing off the yoke of Christianity that they don't see that they may be paving the way for an even more burdensome yoke if the radical Muslims have their way.

If the Secularists thought Christianity was oppressive, they ain't seen nothin yet.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Int bis-serjeta? (translation: Seriously; pronunciation...I'm not going to bother.)
Yes, that's Maltese.
Yes, look at my location.

Yes, I've actually started a thread about Malta.
Forced secularization? 54% of the country voted in favor of divorce with a 72% voter turnout (actually a bit low by our standards).

The idea that radical Islam is going to find a way into Malta because we're legalizing divorce is...well...so stupid. We're a nation that's rapidly secularizing as a population. Also, the whole cultural identity of the Maltese isn't based around the Christian religion so much as the history of Malta as depicted by the Catholic Church...guess what, it's wrong as hell. I mean, we did fight off the Ottoman empire and single-handedly saved Western Europe from attack, that was pretty awesome of us...but Maltese culture is so enamored with not taking too much from anyone that radical Islam isn't going to get a foothold.

As much as I hate it, Malta is way to ethnocentric for that to happen...also, we love alcohol way too much. Seriously, try taking alcohol away from us...and women in bikinis. I mean, that's half of the appeal of the coming summer right there.

I'm sorry, I just took way too much of this crap every single day for quite a bit...it's been the issue of discussion here.

Seriously though, the whole idea of Europe becoming a victim of radical Islam as it secularizes is...well...silly. As Europe moves towards (or is pretty much already at, depending on the nation) empirical, rational, and non-religious societal foundations it becomes more resistant to Islam.

Oh, and Sharia law? Yeah, the only way that gets legally practiced in Europe is as agreed upon mediation (I know there's a better word, but I can't think of it right now) based on a previously accepted legal contract...and only if it's within the bounds of the law. This would be property disputes and business stuff, never anything that would be a breach of law. Oh, and a judge still has to give it the go-ahead.

But...this happens with all sorts of religious groups, most notably Jewish communities.

Anyway, yeah. I'm in Malta, no Islamic fundamentalist threat here. We're sick and tired of fundamentalist religious people because of the divorce thing enough as it is.
edit on 31/5/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Spelling mistake.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Well...I know enough about Egypt and Libya to know that it does exist. I mean, I live just a spit away from them. Egypt has roving gangs of fundamentalists in some parts that beat, rape, and murder those who they think have violated Islamic rules...sure, they're just jerks in general probably, but I doubt that the excuses they find in the Qu'ran for it are helping.

Libya...well...south Libya has all sorts of fundamentalist problems and even modern Muslims that I've interacted with at my University say odd things like "I think Bin Laden was right to kill the people on 9/11" (please, this isn't a truther thread, I'm just saying what they tell me).

Oh, and what about Saudi Arabia, where women are trying to stage a protest for the right to drive a car?



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Sorry if I'm not familiar with your general activity on ATS. I can only refer to the present thread (but your point is valid).

You wrote:

["Sure, you may disagree with my agenda (heck, I expect most everybody here does) but, you have to admit, the article does have a point."]

Yes. that any form of extremism, supported or opposed, is mankind's greatest danger.

Quote: ["The secularists are fighting hard right now to free themselves from what they see as Christian oppression but, what they don't see is that by destroying the Christian roots of European culture they are creating a vaccuum which the radical Muslims seek to capitalize on to further their agenda to bring about Sharia law in the EU"]

It's a shadow argument (not sure if that concept really exists, bear with me). It's the ever-inherent problem in democracy to insist on inclusivity, but not letting this lead to palace revolutions.

Quote: ["They are using the cultural confusion created by the destruction of age old institutions to raise up Sharia law definitions of those institutions in their place."]

Being a european myself, I'm familiar with the situation. But the muslim extremists aren't worse than the christians trying to infiltrate everything or the former commies doing the same. And most of the muslims I've met have quickly become secularized.

Quote: ["The secularists are soo blinded by their ambition of throwing off the yoke of Christianity that they don't see that they may be paving the way for an even more burdensome yoke if the radical Muslims have their way."]

Are you following european politics? You may notice a strong growing nationalism everywhere, targeting on islam.

PS I'm a monarchist also. A CONSTITUTIONAL monarchist.



posted on Jun, 1 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


Damn you constitutional monarchists!

...sorry, ex-colonial gut reaction. Doubly so since I was raised in America. But seriously, you raise a good point. There are some very scary 'nationalist' groups that are more like 'anti-immigrants' groups that are specifically targeting Islam.

Here in Malta we even have two of those...and yet neither of them is our actually Nationalist party...one of them dissolved following the last general election because...well...they were not all that useful. The other one is just one crazy guy who holds an odd amount of sway amongst some of the less intelligent people.
edit on 1/6/11 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:48 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Radical islamists make up majority of the population in some muslim countries. "Extremist minority" is a myth.



pewglobal.org...



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Allowing divorce is aiding muslims to bring about Sharia law? You got to be kidding me lol..
Is this a parody of fundamentalist christian rhetoric, or is it for real? I honestly cant tell.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Maslo
 


You're one to tell a muslim, who knows muslims, who are from "muslim countries" which in reality don't exist. That's what I love about the time we live in, everybody's a scholar.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by lestweforget
 


Although it is an excellent post by FortAnthem, LestWeForget is absolutely right, and I never heard anyone sum up the whole situation so well and so briefly. If anyone doubts that the world conquest is the true intention of ALL MUSLIMS, in order to fulfill their religious duties as commanded by their own Koran, please look at websites like JihadWatch, The ReligionofPeace.com, Trencherbone, and also read about how the Grand Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem was such a great friend of Hitler that he not only sent Muslim troops to support Hitler and fight AGAINST US in World War II, but actually suggested the Final Solution of the gas chambers to Hitler.

Crushing the world under the Totalitarian Global Caliphate, and forcing us all into slavery, conversion or death under Sharia Law, is the true religious duty of EVERY MUSLIM, carefully hidden by their religious practice of "taqiyya": deception.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Strange that, considering divorce is allowed in Islam, surely 'Islamic extremists' would be in favour of getting rid of a law that goes against Islam?



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Tib50
 


Taqiyya is concealing of a person's Islamic identity or doing something 'Haram' (forbidden) in order to avoid persecution. It's forbidden for a Muslim to lie and Taqiyya is largely opposed by proponents of Sunni Islam.
edit on 2-6-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by Tib50
 


Aw hell, just shoot me now... The things people believe..

ETA: If our agenda is "conversion or death" then where would the slaves come from? Are the muslim too? Or did they not convert and we kill them too?
edit on 2-6-2011 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)




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