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Forced secularization being used by radical Muslims to bring about Sharia law.

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posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


THANK YOU! I keep tryna tell people taqiyya is a SHI'A concept.




posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


I'm sorry, but Muslim countries don't exist? What is Iran? What is Saudi Arabia? What is Pakistan?

What do you call a country that would put me to death for depicting or blaspheming the prophet of Islam?



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


You let the non-Muslims live only if they agree to pay jizya tribute (blackmail), act as slaves on the lowest rung of society, lick the boots of Muslims, and allow the Muslims to kidnap their bravest, strongest Christian sons, who were forcibly circumcized, raped and trained as janissaries in the Ottoman Empire.

Deception and global conquest are the very basis of Islam, which is why it has often allied itself with both fascists and communists in the past, and even today. They all have the same evil totalitarian goals to crush humanity under their jackboots, just like the Nazis.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Tib50
 


Apparently you ignored the post by an actual Maltese person. Me. Look, it even got a lot of stars.

This was something that was proposed by a Catholic and supported by Catholics in a country that is mostly Catholics and has more atheists than Muslims. Hell, we've even had atheist prime ministers here...granted, neither of them did a good job and one skirted close to being a dictator, but I'm just saying.

Sure, we have some Muslims, but most of them aren't really all that good at being Muslims. Libyans who come up here and go out and get wasted...okay, not so much right now. Turks that...run kebab houses. Seriously, we have a much higher population of atheists than Muslims, so I guess that godless communism should be a greater concern for the Maltese.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I call it a country full of idiots. Nowhere in the revelation does it say that "blasphemy" is a crime punishable by death. The problem is, a certain sect of muslims try to fit islam into a political agenda when most of what is prescribed to a muslim is for spiritual gain. I call Iran a country full of Shi'a muslims, and Jews as well. A TRUE muslim country would embody and impliment the beauty of the revelation.

But I guess to you I'm just sitting over here dreaming of world domination.

If you wanna know about true islam, go to something BY muslims, jihadwatch, and that crap people cite on here won't cut it.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by Tib50
 


You mean sort of like how the Christians acted in the Middle Ages?

Why are you acting surprised that a religion which is 700 years younger than Christianity is acting similar to how Christianity acted 700 years ago?

Hell, I'm not even saying that it is, as there are quite a few moderate, apathetic, and downright ignorant Muslims out there. All I'm saying is that, even if it were true, how does that make it any different from Christianity prior to it being dragged kicking and screaming by secular rationalism and empiricism from the dark ages?



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by Tib50
 


And you studied islam for 19 years? I doubt it, but guess what, I did. You're gonna look hella stupid one day when the only people kicking in your door yelling "SUBMIT" is your own TOTALITARIAN government.

I'll just continue to do what I've been doing. Minding my business trying to raise my kids.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


..thanks for straw manning me. I've actually bothered to read the Qu'ran. Though I guess the Hadith is no longer considered an Islamic text to Muslims...huh.

I think Islam is...well..about as bad as Christianity on the face of it. It just hasn't had 700+ years of scientific and cultural advances in the nations where it is the majority religion. Granted, part of this might be the fault of Islam, but no more than the west's stagnation was due to Christianity.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


A lot of muslims have largely abandoned hadith due to it's corruptability. The quran was passed down in both written and unwritten forms, and though certain translations may have "simplified" or "sensationalized" the arabic, hadith is like the telephone game. I'm assuming you've read some: so and so, told so and so, told so and so, told so and so, told so and so, who SAID he HEARD the Prophet say..... That CAN'T be good.

And sorry if you feel like I was attacking you in the last post. Tib50 irritated me to wits end.



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Tib50
You let the non-Muslims live only if they agree to pay jizya tribute (blackmail), act as slaves on the lowest rung of society, lick the boots of Muslims, and allow the Muslims to kidnap their bravest, strongest Christian sons, who were forcibly circumcized, raped and trained as janissaries in the Ottoman Empire.

Deception and global conquest are the very basis of Islam, which is why it has often allied itself with both fascists and communists in the past, and even today. They all have the same evil totalitarian goals to crush humanity under their jackboots, just like the Nazis.


Jizya: A tax levied on non-Muslims within an Islamic society as an alternative to military service and Zakat. If a Christian for example served in the military of a Muslim nation they were exempted of the 'Jizya' tax.

Christians and Jews are to be protected and respected as religious minorities according to the Quran and their religion is considered valid.




"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).





"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).


What you have said about Christians under Muslim governments is not true, persecution is considered as bad as murder in the Quran. The Quran states that "persecution is worse than slaughter.". If they had this radical conversion policy, why are 10% of Egyptians to this day still Christian? Why are 40% of Lebanese Christians even though they are surrounded by Muslims and have been subject to Muslims for over 1000 years? The same in many 'Muslim' countries, until the founding of the state of Israel there were millions of Jews in 'Muslim' countries living freely without persecution. The religious antagonism we see today is a new concept and was absent from the middle east for a long time.

edit on 2-6-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by lifeissacred
 


*applause*

excellent post



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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How does it qualify as "forced" secularization when 70% of the people voted for it?



posted on Jun, 2 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
How does it qualify as "forced" secularization when 70% of the people voted for it?


Ah yes, the old democratic "the majority can outlaw the minority" argument.

Just because a slim majority of a people vote for some policy which will be imposed upon all the people in a country does not make it right.


BTW, the vote was a lot closer than the super majority you seem to think approved this.



Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Forced secularization? 54% of the country voted in favor of divorce with a 72% voter turnout (actually a bit low by our standards).



A slim 4% majority has been able to force a change in the whole culture of this country. Soon the island nation will find itself overrun with sleazy divorce lawyers looking for reasons to break up marriages, even those of the people who voted against this.

It makes me wonder why people see divorce as such a good thing? Many studies have shown that the children of divorce are more prone to emotional problems and delinquency. I have read studies that show that people find that divorce does not bring them the happiness they had hoped for and puts financial burdens on both parties of the divorce. With divorce now becoming legal, people will be more likely to just walk away from their problems rather than try to work things out, the children be damned.



edit on 6/2/11 by FortAnthem because:



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 





Just because a slim majority of a people vote for some policy which will be imposed upon all the people in a country does not make it right.


It was the old policy of forbidding divorce that was imposed upon all people. The new policy allows choice to divorce or not. There is no imposing in this case.

While I am not so big fan of dictatorship of majority (democracy), in this case the result is good, altough by a rather slim majority.
edit on 3/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 




A slim 4% majority has been able to force a change in the whole culture of this country. Soon the island nation will find itself overrun with sleazy divorce lawyers looking for reasons to break up marriages, even those of the people who voted against this.


lol
We had divorce legal since god knows what, and divorce lawyer infestation is at pretty low levels. Do you really think divorce lawyers would suddenly go from home to home asking couples "are you really satisfied with your marriage? Try new divorce procedure! Now 25% cheaper!" or what?

A law which forces people into such unbreakable commitment is against liberty on which the whole western civilisation is based, and is no diferent than Sharia law.



It makes me wonder why people see divorce as such a good thing?


Yea, its better to stay in not functioning or abusive marriage till death do us part.. People should have a choice.


edit on 3/6/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Yes, let's dismiss the words of the only Maltese person in this thread.


Originally posted by FortAnthem

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Forced secularization? 54% of the country voted in favor of divorce with a 72% voter turnout (actually a bit low by our standards).


A slim 4% majority has been able to force a change in the whole culture of this country.


It's not a forced change to culture. Separations already happen, annulments already happen, divorces already happen for those with the wealth to spend six months as a resident in another EU nation.

Also, that 4% majority isn't all that slim when you consider that the Catholic church was telling people that they wouldn't be able to receive communion unless they voted against divorce...oh, and that the anti-divorce side was far better financed than the pro-divorce side. Oh, and that a major political party actually financed anti-divorce work, while the opposite party didn't do much of anything to support the anti-divorce work. Or that people were actually bussed in from old folks homes to vote against divorce....

Hell, anyway, minority rides shouldn't have even been decided by referendum in the first place. This insanity was a 4 million euro waste designed to keep parliament from doing its job.

And, as Maslo already pointed out, how is allowing people the choice about whether or not they want divorce an imposition?



Soon the island nation will find itself overrun with sleazy divorce lawyers looking for reasons to break up marriages, even those of the people who voted against this.


No, not really. Of course, you'd just rather toss out the slippery slope argument. You seem frightfully unaware of the proposed laws involved, which involve a four year period of separation prior to the divorce itself.

Also, since when are sleazy divorce lawyers radical Muslims?



It makes me wonder why people see divorce as such a good thing? Many studies have shown that the children of divorce are more prone to emotional problems and delinquency.


...and the problem isn't the divorce, the problem is the marriage breakdown itself. Which already happens in Malta. If people are separated then the children go through the same problems which lead to emotional issues and delinquent activity.



I have read studies that show that people find that divorce does not bring them the happiness they had hoped for and puts financial burdens on both parties of the divorce.


Divorce isn't legalized to make people happy, though I doubt 'americanvalues.org' is a scientific journal of merit in the first place, it's been legalized because there are people who want to remarry after being separated. The fact of the matter is that I'm sure quite a lot of these people wouldn't be any happier in the marriage they left.



With divorce now becoming legal, people will be more likely to just walk away from their problems rather than try to work things out, the children be damned.


I hope you realize that, as a Maltese person living in Malta, I've dealt with any argument you can possibly toss out.

No, they won't. It's not a 'children be damned' situation. I'd like to point out that staying in a toxic family environment for the sake of the children is harmful to the children.
edit on 3/6/11 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/6/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Added point about sleazy lawyers being radical Muslims.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


I do understand that some Muslims do reject it, but to call nations that don't reject it and use traditional Islamic jurisprudence as part of their legal system not Muslim nations is more than a bit irrational. It would be like saying Malta's laws that are derived from Catholicism don't make it a nation that is, unfortunately for people like myself, a nation that is Christian.

Hopefully we'll secularize it.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by lestweforget
 


Although it is an excellent post by FortAnthem, LestWeForget is absolutely right, and I never heard anyone sum up the whole situation so well and so briefly. If anyone doubts that the world conquest is the true intention of ALL MUSLIMS, in order to fulfill their religious duties as commanded by their own Koran, please look at websites like JihadWatch, The ReligionofPeace.com, Trencherbone, and also read about how the Grand Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem was such a great friend of Hitler that he not only sent Muslim troops to support Hitler and fight AGAINST US in World War II, but actually suggested the Final Solution of the gas chambers to Hitler.

Crushing the world under the Totalitarian Global Caliphate, and forcing us all into slavery, conversion or death under Sharia Law, is the true religious duty of EVERY MUSLIM, carefully hidden by their religious practice of "taqiyya": deception.


Exactly as christianity used to be, until secular society put an end to it.



posted on Jun, 3 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


You wrote:

["Ah yes, the old democratic "the majority can outlaw the minority" argument."]

What kind of democracy are you referring to? The one not acknowledging special extra-parliamentary priviliges to certain self-proclaimed elitist groups, and thus being dictatorial, because it opposes elitism?

An 'oppression of the elect' argument?

You can't be that ignorant about the principles of egalitarian, liberal, secular democracy as is suggested here. I hope you can clarify this for me.



edit on 3-6-2011 by bogomil because: typo




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