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People are commodities???

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posted on May, 30 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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So once again I was talking with my Uncle about the who0le TSA thing. And I told him of the story of what happened in Texas with the whole vote and then it got shot down. I told him that it was wrong for the federal government to threaten the no fly zone. But he agreed witht he government to threaten a no fly zone. I will tell you what he told me.

States have no rights in interstate commerce,and that is what air travel,immigration and health care are. The constitution clearly states that this is the role of the federal Government controls. You can agrue that the fed is not doing what you feel is enough but this does not grant states rights which they ar enot entitled to. This line of reasoning is what led to the Civil War. Do you really need a repeat to learn the limitations that the constitution gave to the States?

Now here is what I wanna say in response to what my Uncle said Do you need a repeat in the limitations that the founders and framers put on the federal government!!

Let me go back to my original question. Are people commodities I haven;t thought about it like that before. Because My Uncle explained his thought pattern iike this. He said since the airports deal in transportation of people accross state lines that this falls under the interstate commerce clause. ( I mean I can;t believe how many people are using this clause it was used to justify the health care law) Since airport's are dealing in the market or transporting people he see's that people are commodities.

I immediately said to him No you can;t put a price on people.

So what do you think ATS? Are just moving entities with prices on our heads with changing price values??




posted on May, 30 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


Dear American-philosopher,

In regards to flying between states, the commerce is the payment for the flight, not the people. It even applies to cargo flights, still commerce. Healthcare is not interstate commerce, per se. Pharmaceuticals are. The federal government has powers beyond just interstate commerce.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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We have an economic system called capitalism. We are told it is a system of free-markets. That is really not true. The definition of capitalism is 'the private ownership of the means of production'. In other words all the machinery and real estate etc., that is used to produce what we need is monopolized by the few who can afford to own a 'company'. That means the rest of us are at the mercy of those owners, they can decide to hire or fire you, cutting you off from the means to gain for your own need. The majority have very little choice but to work for somebody, so your labour is a commodity just as much as anything else. We are bought and sold, it's been this way for a long time. Most people have nothing else to sell but there labour, capitalists get wealthy from the sale of good produced by your labour. If you owned your own tools (means of production) then you would own yourself.


'Labour is a commodity like any other', 'an article of trade' - Edmund Burke, Thoughts on Scarcity, 1795.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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How is health care under federal jurisdiction????????/ Be real. How many people cross state lines to visit their doctor or even a hospital?
Why can't the several states control who moves into or through their territory?
Freedom of travel is a basic right that the government should not control at all. Private travel is none of the government's business at all. Only travel related to business that crosses state or international borders should have federal involvement. So flights from Miami to Pensacola or El Paso to Houston, or San Diego to Sacramento is not the concern of the federal government.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:11 PM
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The point is moot. Even if you concede that air travel falls under interstate commerce, which I don't, it still does not allow the federal government to violate the Fourth Amendment.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


No People are not bought and sold I meanit has been that in history but I mean in a supposed free society. It is the people's skills that are bought and sold. You can;t buy me!! I dare Bill gates or Oprah Winfrey to try and buy me!! alright.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
reply to post by ANOK
 


No People are not bought and sold I meanit has been that in history but I mean in a supposed free society. It is the people's skills that are bought and sold. You can;t buy me!! I dare Bill gates or Oprah Winfrey to try and buy me!! alright.


Well that is not what I meant by that. Why pick on that point and not the rest of my points?

You are bought and sold, as in you labour is bought and sold, hired and fired. You may think you are a free person, but if you work for someone else you are giving your freedom up. If you owned your own means of production, and were not reliant on someone hiring you, then you would be truly free. The private owner (the capitalist) holds your ability to feed yourself in their hands. You are not truly free to produce for yourself outside of 'the system'. Being free in a capitalists system makes you an outsider most of the time. People who try to do this are hassled by the state.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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The commerce clause was never meant to give the federal government complete control over all interstate commerce. To "regulate commerce" was meant to "make it regular" encourage it, and ensure the free flow of it. Not to restrict it, tax it, and monopolize it.

Your Uncle is correct in how the government sees it and yes they see people as commodities. The civil war was an illegal war and destroyed our free republic by destroying state rights and set the precedent for the monstrosity we have today.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Then how you categorized the self employed?? And don;t we as workers have the right not to work for said person. We enter into th eworking contract with the employer when we agree upon terms of payemnt for service.

Is not the employer a slave to the worker???



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


"I immediately said to him No you can;t put a price on people.

So what do you think ATS? Are just moving entities with prices on our heads with changing price values??"


Yes, people are a form of commodity. Yes, people do have changing price values.

People are not a product on the marketplace (except for illegal trades and underground markets). Instead, we provide a service voluntarily to either freely benefit ourselves & others or in exchange for money which allows us purchasing power in the marketplace. We then exchange money for goods or services we need or desire.

Peoples changing value is relative age, education, debt, and the will & ability to function. To those who love us we are priceless. To those who pay our wages we are judged by what we bring to the table and if or who we know sitting at that table.

Example: A young HS student works a part-time job saving for college. Her basic skills job bagging groceries pays a low wage, she has minimal purchasing power with her paycheck, and the governments etcetera do not take too much from her paycheck. She is currently debt-free.

She studies hard and good grades get her scholarship and grant and/or low interest loan. She is lucky to be able to finish a four year degree without having to hold a distracting, time-consuming part time job because her well-to-do Aunt sends her a monthly allowance. She graduates with only $30,000 debt for college loans. She has no income.

Her IQ and willingness to work hard allow her to continue her education as she excels in Science and Medicine. Just prior to graduation her thesis on the synthesis of Man and Monkey that was published by the impressed editors of The Important Journal of Medicine & Science cause a flurry of excitement. She is scouted by many and accepts a research & development position with We Play God corporation for $180,000.00 a year. She graduates with a total of $165,000.00 debt in school loans.

Ten years from now she has proved her incredible theories, received promotions, her work has supplied her employer with many intellectual properties and she is earning $325,000.00 a year. Her school loans are paid off. But she purchased a $750,000.00 Barbie Dream House and drives a $65,000.00 Economy Car. She is deeply in debt with high mortgage with steep interest, car loan, cost of living and excessive credit card debt from buying too many wants. She is burdened with steep taxes on her house. She pays incredible taxes due to her handsome earnings. Utilities and upkeep on her house is high too. Health care is steep. She has multiple insurance policies. And there are many other deductions taken from her pay.

See now how her personal 'price value' has changed. As a HS student she made $75.00 / weekly with some taxes and things paid and no debt. Well into her career she makes a bundle but she spends it too, and has acquired debt while multiple government bodies also take a portion of her earnings.

She will go through more changes in the following years as costs rise steadily. Marriage, children, loss of employment when her employer is sued out of existence. Her husband leaves her for another man and puts her through a costly court battle for custody of their dog. For a time she is forced to make do in a tiny apartment as she only earns $2,200.00 a month as a cashier in a food store.

Our price value changes with time and circumstance.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by American-philosopher
reply to post by ANOK
 


Then how you categorized the self employed??


The lucky few?


And don;t we as workers have the right not to work for said person.


Lol the right to be exploited. If you had the choice to work for a private owner on an hourly wage, or the chance to work at a coop where you take an equal portion of the profit you helped to make, which would you choose?


We enter into th eworking contract with the employer when we agree upon terms of payemnt for service.


Yes but you have no choice in this. You either do or you starve.


Is not the employer a slave to the worker???


No. How do you figure that? The employee is at the mercy of the employer. The employee has right only because employees over the years have fought for those rights. If it was left to capitalists we would still be forced to work like in the industrial revolution.

People like to think we have all these choices, but that is only because they don't realise what they're being denied. We are given just enough to keep us apathetic.


edit on 5/30/2011 by ANOK because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Okay maybe I was pushing the envelope with the comment that the employer is the salve ot the worker. But how does the work get done without the worker?? The employer can;t make mobney until the job is done in most cases. So if the worker doesn;t do the work where does that put the employer.



posted on May, 30 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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well

obamacare was the result of the government regulating healthcare via the commerce clause.

even tho they have no right to do so.

many people do infact travel across state lines for better healthcare people like me who live closer to better healthcare than what is offered at the local "bandaid" station we call a hospital.

airline travel is "regulated" for the american safety anything deemed dangerous the government regulates for "our protection"

drugs,guns,tobacco,healthcare the government is the alpha and the omega they are the masters and we are the slaves.

yes people are commodities they are bought and sold via their votes.

when will people every wake up that the biggest enemy of the people in this country is their own government.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by American-philosopher
 


IMO not commodities but we are a "market share" and if we could not engage in some interstate activity the railroads, interstate roads and highway systems never would have been built in the first place.



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Is my health a product?

Is selling me wellness, cancer tests and screenings considered products?

I think they are necessities. This is like saying FEMA can't go across state lines.

My health condition is an emergency. At all times.

Innocent victims should be protected against "scalping" in the medical care industry.

Definitely think it is a human rights issue not to regulate costs and keep health affordable
and available to everyone.

These are not luxuries but essential and fixed expenses like an insurance and should not become luxuries anymore than say driving across state lines, flying or mailing something.

These necessities should not only be for the wealthy and privileged but kept affordable for everyone if the govt has to take steps to insure it is.

We have fed regulatory agencies to make sure the gas heater I buy will not kill my household. No one decries this socialist intervention. This is a govt sponsored agency and deals with a product across state lines but both heat and not getting asphyxiated or blown up are rights afforded to Americans. Reasonable expectations - not luxuries. The alternative is deadly. So,

Access to affordable health care (and that word affordable is key) is just as vital to my pursuit of "life" and liberty and at least as necessary. In my opinion.

edit on 31-5-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 31 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


SO are you saying that you like the the health care law and you think it speaks to providing for the general welfare of the people, spoken in the constitution? is this what you are effectively saying??



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