Does our consciousness create the world around us?

Memory is the key.

The better we are able to store into memory exactly what we imagine, the better we are able to use that memory as a blueprint for whatever it is we want to manifest.

Originally posted by SystemResistor
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

Additionally, if it were possible to remotley alter the perception of surrounding individuals, we could theoretically exist within a consensus "dream world" or collective hallucination. There could be millions of people walking around that see a completley different world than we do, and we might be made to believe that they are interacting in the "regular world" like us...

edit on 24-5-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)

That is possible I guess. Perceptually. But in reality, we see/hear what they are doing, generally, they are doing it ... regardless of what they think they are doing!

Or maybe we perceive that is what they are doing but really everyone else sees what they are really doing and we are confused...

Point being, there is a foundation that all can agree upon. A hundred people would come into my house and tell me I have hard wood floors if asked. If any gave any answer that could not in any way shape or form be construed as "hard wood floors", I would question their consciousness.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Basically what your saying is that you have "faith" that one day we will find physical theories that support you point of view. You said:

"We are not the universal mind. And again, as I said, we don't actually understand the physics of the universe. Far from it - in fact! "

You contradict yourself. On one hand you say we're not a Universal Mind but on the other hand you say there's much that we don't know. How can you say we;re not a Universal Mind in one breathe and in the next breathe admit you don't know?

You're going on faith of your belief and I'm talking about Physics. Everything I have said is in line with things like the double slit experiment, information theory and more. You're the one with the wishful thinking.

You have faith that one day we will find a physical theory that will support your belief system.

What you're trying to do is pass off your opinion like it's evidence agaisnt those who say consciousness creates reality. If you're going to refute those who say consciousness creates reality and they have presented evidence to support their theory like there isn't a shred of evidence that matter has an objective existence refute the evidence presented instead of faith that one day we will find a physical theory that supports your belief system.

For instance tell me how saying Consciousness Creates the Universe is inconsistent with quantum mechanics.

first, it probably is important to define what is Conciousness
to be concious: — adj
1. a. alert and awake; not sleeping or comatose
b. aware of one's surroundings, one's own thoughts and motivations, etc
2. a. aware of and giving value or emphasis to a particular fact or phenomenon: I am conscious of your great kindness to me
b. ( in combination ): clothes-conscious
3. done with full awareness; deliberate: a conscious effort ; conscious rudeness
4. a. denoting or relating to a part of the human mind that is aware of a person's self, environment, and mental activity and that to a certain extent determines his choices of action
b. ( as noun ): the conscious is only a small part of the mind

If we start with the first definition, we then would have to start with the most important key to awarness. I would like to quote a book written called a Course in Miracles. This book's motto, stated perfectly: "Nothing real can be threaten, nothing real exists, there in lies the Peace of God". The Irony of this belief is that we as human beings, fall into such patterns dynamics of not knowing what is real or unreal. therefore, how can we know if we are concious or unconcious. As we started our growth process from the time of our birth, we've been given information from so many sources. As we grow, we have come to know as we think we know, what is true or not true. The Course teaches, this principle. There is only 1 truth, 1 realty, 1 self and 1 God. All of these are 1 and they are all in us. The problem is, is we have become so unconciousness thru out lives, that we don't know what is true anymore. The first place we need to start is with US. We need to start working, looking, uncovering and awaking the true self of who we are. We have over time, and in all honesty, come to belive so many things that are Illusions, believe to be true, and many truths, we believe are Illusions. The Ego, loves it. It creates confusion, it creates the conciousness it tells us we want, which in most cases is Illusions, instant gratification, and most of the time, only for the purpose of the Ego. It's like a sweet lilaby that puts our true mind, our true self in a deep somber of unconciousness. It keeps us from what is reality. Especially the reality of what, who we really are. We make choices, we do things that serve the Ego, not our true self. We serve Illusions, and fight fiercely believing lies, and deceit that Ego creates because truth and reality threatens it. If it's real, it can't be threatened, and if these things we think are real don't exists, there fore lies Peace of God, because we are no longer in a somber. We are truly concious.. i like what the person said about singing to the rock. The native american people belived that all things on this earth had a spirit and it's own conciousness. It does, it's doing it's own thing. We just don't know what it is because we can't see it from that perspective or knowing. Now, the promise that exists is that when we live in this truth, we have nothing to fear, because we are in reality, we are concious and alive. We are making choices we don't have to fear of retibution, we are changing ourselves, and therefore the world. A tree is a tree, a rock is a rock. Nature, creative nature lives in it's own conciousness, because it lives in it's own truth and reality. it's one with it's creator, and life. We as humans, are the ones who have the issues with this, because we have Ego. When we look in a telescope, we see the planets, galaxies, nebula's etc, they are existing perfectly with their existance. they are doing exactly as they are supposed to. When we look at the ocean, the sky, the forest, nature is existing in it's pefect harmony in it's truth, reality and in harmony in it's self. We can't know it, because we can't as Einstein's theory of realtivy, we don't have the ability to see it from it's perspective. Only from the ability of being objective. So therefore, the only ability we have is to be subjective of ourselves and objective of anything else. When we are truly concious, then we have the ability, and living in harmony with OUR truth, not anyone elses truth, then we have the ability to see the objectiveness with new eyes. It maybe with acceptance, love, peace. We still go to our jobs, maybe we become different with those around us, we become different human beings. The irony is, is that we are two things. Humans and Beings. The human part of us, is from millions of years of evolution, thru the hands of creators and God. the Being part, is where we choose the level on our conciousness. That is our responsibility and our control. Many people choose the road of unconciousness, because there is no accoutability, responsibility. It's the easy way out. it takes work to be and stay concious. it's not always easy. Does it change the world. It can, does it change reality? It will change the way we live our reality. Yet it must start with how we see that reality. I would say the most important part of being Conciousness, is the quality of the conciousness, then what do you with it. It's not just being awake, like from an alarm clock. it's being Awake, from the soul, heart and mind. Being close to our self reality, then living it to the best of our ability

I read an article recently that talked about the concept of what they called the "Demiurge", where they likened it to the operating system of a computer, that keeps all the background stuff in line, and free will is like a program or user interface.
Found the link:

montalk.net...

I botched the explanation a bit, but same principle I guess. Check it out.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


my only complaint is that you took only a small quote from my post and based your argument on it.

there are many conflicting theories any the universe, but it is
easy to debunk the one you defend... I would not like to repay
whatI already said especially since I'm on my phone.

but if we are all of a universal mind, then there is no sense in arguing.

which is why I say that you don't even believe that.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


First off, nobody is arguing. I'm just debating the issue on a thread that you started. This is what happens on ATS, People start threads and debate issues.

Secondly, you can't or haven't debunked anything. As you said, this is just your opinion.

At the end of the day saying that Consciousness Created the Universe is consistent with quantum mechanics. What materialist will say is there's some physical theory out there, hiding in the shadows that will support their point of view. This is just faith and wishful thinking.

Like I asked earlier, how is saying that Consciousness Created the Universe inconsistent with quantum mechanics. I can give you a list as to why quanum mechanics is inconsistent with materialism. Quantum Mechanics and materialism are like oil and water.

If you really want to explore this issue, here's some books to check out.

Hyperspace - Dr. Michio Kaku
The Field - Lynne McTaggert
The Conscious Universe and Entangled Minds - Dean Radin
The Self Aware Universe - Amit Goswami
God at the Speed of Light - T. Lee Baumann
The God Theory - Bernard Haisch

When I dream and I see a rock, what is it made of? Physical matter? Mind stuff? Consciousness?
In the same way the rock is "created" by consciousness so too is reality.

I once said it beautifully poetic when I called my self "Ibn al 'Arabi" : God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal...and awakens in man.

Technically your consciousness creates reality for you, placing all your sensory stimuli in a coherent whole. But the way people argue for it here is simply rabble: as if consciousness creates the external reality around us. The distinctions between the two is ignored by the "spiritual" people here.

Originally posted by 547000
Technically your consciousness creates reality for you, placing all your sensory stimuli in a coherent whole. But the way people argue for it here is simply rabble: as if consciousness creates the external reality around us. The distinctions between the two is ignored by the "spiritual" people here.

The distinction between "Me" and "Reality" is non existant. There is not a "Me" seperate from Reality.
So consciousness does not 'create' reality it IS reality.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

Absolutely it does. Not magically of course. But you define your reality.

If in your reality you can get any woman you want and do it on a consistent basis you are living in and reinforcing that reality.
However in someone else's reality this may not be the case. And they may do horribly with women. Because in their mind they don't believe they can do it.

For me my reality is that I'm IT and I'm pretty good with computers and I can resolve almost any issue I tackle.
For others they have problems using programs like word and excel.
But they call me over and tell me the problem and things start working like they should.
Is it magic? no. but am I defining my reality by knowing that I can resolve technical issues? yes.

Your mind is your limiting factor.

Tell this to amputees.

Originally posted by scratchmane

Originally posted by 547000
Technically your consciousness creates reality for you, placing all your sensory stimuli in a coherent whole. But the way people argue for it here is simply rabble: as if consciousness creates the external reality around us. The distinctions between the two is ignored by the "spiritual" people here.

The distinction between "Me" and "Reality" is non existant. There is not a "Me" seperate from Reality.
So consciousness does not 'create' reality it IS reality.

So do you think dreams and nightmares are reality? When you are unconscious reality ceases to exist? What of dead people?

reply to post by TarzanBeta

Okay, I dig the movie theory

It is not a movie theory. I used the example of a movie because it is nowadays a common used tool. Most people get it when you say you are in a movie. I can say your in a book too or in music, some can be -in- the story of a musical etc. Movie was just used to show you that there are in this world different worlds your consciousness experience. As you in a movie that you like automatically dismiss improbabilities - like that girl shouldn't fly or how can he jump that - that go against the setting you would do that here. The whole key of life is that you have a certain amount of time to live it. Nobody knows how long it is it would be a bummer if you know right? (That would be another discussion.) Time could be just a dismissed improbability in order to experience life as we know it. Nothing tells me that my consciousness outside this life needs to experience time and if it does nothing tells me it needs to be the same as in this life.

Of course it is part of the show. Lol to keep it simple I will use the example of a movie again.
A movie is part of real life as you need to buy tickets you need to download it, you need writers etc you need all the assets in real life to create the -world- of the movie. Like you are trying to explain that the theory shows that the most stuff can happen in this life and the external world it would be less. In the world of the movie you are right but not every asset is purely in existence for that movie so without that movie it would be needed for other stuff. I see why you come to the idea that this reality has an infinite number of possibilities that can be imagined, this existence is bound by rules everything within the rules is possible. The probably would have rules too. Some may be the same, some may be different. I can only suggest that the word infinite gave you the idea that this existence is so big there can't be something else even bigger. It is just infinite because there is time, without time it is just a matter of time (LoL) before you put everything with everything. Again there is nothing that tells me that. For the imagination that cannot happen according to this world, did you just create another world?

And again I could have reacted differently, my other schizophrenic part of the whole says this:
You can put that theory to rest TarzanBeta, it is your world to create, so you are right anyway.

About life in general? Well I just know this I just might as well enjoy it, I bought a ticket for it. lol

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by scratchmane

Originally posted by 547000
Technically your consciousness creates reality for you, placing all your sensory stimuli in a coherent whole. But the way people argue for it here is simply rabble: as if consciousness creates the external reality around us. The distinctions between the two is ignored by the "spiritual" people here.

The distinction between "Me" and "Reality" is non existant. There is not a "Me" seperate from Reality.
So consciousness does not 'create' reality it IS reality.

So do you think dreams and nightmares are reality?

Just as much as anything else

Originally posted by 547000
When you are unconscious reality ceases to exist?

Why would it cease to exist?

Originally posted by 547000
What of dead people?

Erm this one you have to elaborate on?

reply to post by scratchmane


If there is no distinction between "reality" and "me", when I die or fall unconscious reality ceases to be. Only a solipsist would argue that they create reality. Yet its state changed when you wake up, signaling that when you were not manifesting reality it still went on without you.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by scratchmane

 

If there is no distinction between "reality" and "me", when I die or fall unconscious reality ceases to be. Only a solipsist would argue that they create reality. Yet its state changed when you wake up, signaling that when you were not manifesting reality it still went on without you.

Unconscious in this scenario means not being aware of individual ego(the illusion)

When I dream of other people and they talk to me, who is talking to who? When they go to sleep, who is sleeping? It's not that this particular human body is the center of existence. Consciousness is not bound to the body, a rock is consciousness, though I doubt it has any thoughts or feelings, those attributes seemed to be reserved to the human condition.

reply to post by scratchmane

...

Okay, whatever you say man.

You are consciousness.

If you think of consciousness as a black hole. You cannot describe the black hole, you only can describe what is around a black hole. The light bending around the black hole gives it form, but really it is formless existence.

Another way to look at it is through silence. Silence is the canvas in which sounds are painted. Silence is ever present, the forms of sound are temporary and arise out of silence. You cannot hear silence because it has no form.

Another way to look at who you are is to negate everything you are not. For example, if you are in a house, you see that you are not the house but instead experiencing it around you. You are also experiencing your body. You are in a body, but you are not a body. The body is around you. You are experiencing your mind, but you are not your mind. If you watch your mind like you look at your house or your body, you find that the mind is around you. In fact, everything you experience is around you, but is not truly you. You are the emptiness in the middle of it all.

If you are identifying yourself with the body, mind, etc and say that you are creating everything, that is indeed solipsist (narcissistic). However, if you realize who you are as the emptiness known as consciousness, then say you are creating everything around you, that is non-dualist, which is the true nature of everything.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Sorry, but not too good a experiment. Unless of course you could get every consciousness to de-emphesize their current belief about the function of a alarm clock. Or even most.
Do that, perhaps, it'll hold water. Rather doubt you or anyone else for that matter can pull it off.