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Does our consciousness create the world around us?

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posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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I've seen many threads attempting to claim that our consciousness creates the world around us... like, magically.

So, I have developed an easy experiment in order to disprove this narcissistic theory.

Before you go to bed, you set your alarm clock. Remember that a clock is based off of a man-made time and our brain does not keep time naturally in seconds, minutes, or hours. So you have set the time for 9 AM. You go to bed.

It's 9 AM! BLARING ALARM! Annoying! Or, even worse, you woke up to Lady Gaga because your wife set the radio to the pop music station the day before while she was cleaning.


Wait a minute... if my consciousness creates the reality around me, then how is it that reality took it upon itself to send soundwaves out from the alarm clock before I was aware of what was happening around me? Why is it that my wife the previous day had changed the radio station to Lady Gag gag's favorite music station and then I woke up to it? Did my consciousness recreate everything around me at the moment I woke up to make me believe that I woke up to an alarm at 9 AM? What about those days where I failed to wake up to the alarm? It is possible on those days that my consciousness decided to create everything when it chose on that day... and it is possible the alarm didn't exist to make sound - so therefore, I have a perfect excuse for missing work!

But the alarm, when I wake up to it, it happened of its own accord. And what rest would our consciousness get if we spent the entire night keeping these remnants of reality in place to make sure to remember a time, which supposedly should be created by our consciousness, that I must rise to go to work, which is inevitably created by my consciousness.

As well, since I am a happy person, why is it that I would create for myself a hang-over in the morning? I DO admit that I am able to make it go away quickly with just being energetic and happy and loving and a couple of acetimenophen tablets... which I inevitably must have created with my consciousness which really should have just been healed with my consciousness instead of complimenting my joy with microscopic fibers.

How far must I go to prove that life happens without us! It is built within us, but it happens without us. We breathe it in, but it is before us. We are subservient to life. This is especially true because we die! Unless those of you who believe consciousness creates reality believe that it is our consciousness which causes our loved ones to die - and yet their consciousness wasn't powerful enough to overcome our desires... because who wants to truly die?

So, I beseech you, in the name of science, set your alarms! Tell me which happens first! Your creativity? Or life?




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


i think the idea is that those things exist because of interacting consciousness co-creating the universe.

However, i cant go too in-depth, as i do not subscribe to such ideas myself. i feel that if a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear, it still makes pressure waves, it just doesnt vibrate an ear drum and create the duality of "this sound" and "not that one."

It should be an interesting discussion if it can stay a discussion though



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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I didnt even bother to read all your post, it seems You have cometely misunderstood what is means by "your consciousness creates your reality"
You should try and understand a theory fully before you try to debunk it..



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Who's mind is this created world made up from?? My world would be LOT'S different if it were my mind making this stuff up.... I think your mind is making up enough for everyone right now with this thread!!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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well in directly it does, probably not in the way your thinking though. For example some guy could see some waste land and think I could put some apartments there. 6 months later theres now a block of apartments where the used to be nothing. So that one guys mind has shaped that part of the world.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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Well I can't speak for all of us, but I set my alarm clock on my phone and...

It goes off !

Apparently I can sleep through it sometimes, it gives up on me, and when I check my phone it says "Dissmiss?"

So from that perspective, I do not create my environment through my consiousness, as I am far too busy sleeping lol

But I know what you mean, my crazy take on it all is that everything has a consiousness (sorry bad spelling), but thats just me being a bit too out there lmao



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


i think the idea is that those things exist because of interacting consciousness co-creating the universe.

However, i cant go too in-depth, as i do not subscribe to such ideas myself. i feel that if a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear, it still makes pressure waves, it just doesnt vibrate an ear drum and create the duality of "this sound" and "not that one."

It should be an interesting discussion if it can stay a discussion though


Interesting. Well, I wonder how it is possible for my alarm clock to have consciousness. Unseen? Are the particles which make up the clock conscious? Do they know to scream at me? "Wake up, fleshie!"

I agree. With your tree. That is.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by sinohptik
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


i think the idea is that those things exist because of interacting consciousness co-creating the universe.

However, i cant go too in-depth, as i do not subscribe to such ideas myself. i feel that if a tree falls in the woods with no one around to hear, it still makes pressure waves, it just doesnt vibrate an ear drum and create the duality of "this sound" and "not that one."

It should be an interesting discussion if it can stay a discussion though


Interesting. Well, I wonder how it is possible for my alarm clock to have consciousness. Unseen? Are the particles which make up the clock conscious? Do they know to scream at me? "Wake up, fleshie!"

I agree. With your tree. That is.


Well, in that instance, i would propose it would be because of your wife having consciousness, not the alarm clock
And anyone else who might have interacted with it from the physical level down to some type of em interference.

However, as far as "consciousness," well, we need to define what that is before we can say what does or does not "have it."
edit on 24-5-2011 by sinohptik because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Absolutely it does. Not magically of course. But you define your reality.

If in your reality you can get any woman you want and do it on a consistent basis you are living in and reinforcing that reality.
However in someone else's reality this may not be the case. And they may do horribly with women. Because in their mind they don't believe they can do it.

For me my reality is that I'm IT and I'm pretty good with computers and I can resolve almost any issue I tackle.
For others they have problems using programs like word and excel.
But they call me over and tell me the problem and things start working like they should.
Is it magic? no. but am I defining my reality by knowing that I can resolve technical issues? yes.

Your mind is your limiting factor.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Absolutely it does. Not magically of course. But you define your reality.

If in your reality you can get any woman you want and do it on a consistent basis you are living in and reinforcing that reality.
However in someone else's reality this may not be the case. And they may do horribly with women. Because in their mind they don't believe they can do it.

For me my reality is that I'm IT and I'm pretty good with computers and I can resolve almost any issue I tackle.
For others they have problems using programs like word and excel.
But they call me over and tell me the problem and things start working like they should.
Is it magic? no. but am I defining my reality by knowing that I can resolve technical issues? yes.

Your mind is your limiting factor.


You must understand this "reality" you speak about....This is actually a dream world where you can get any woman you want on a consistent basis...Not reality



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


I completely understand our mind's ability to interact with the world around. Within and without, actually, because the imagination is an amazing thing.

As for consciousness, It is something that we only perceive through ourselves! What my point is, is that the theory that consciousness abounds and creates the reality around us is silly because it is an untestable theory.

Consciousness is something simply defined as the alltogether perception. It is the BIG PICTURE as we perceive it our selves. Individually.

I cannot prove that anyone around me has consciousness because I cannot perceive exactly what they perceive. I can only get REALLY close.

It is a dual problem with me. If I cannot test the consciousness of others, how can I test the consciousness of an atom? As well, I know that I am not special in that I am the only human with consciousness, so I know all humans have a form of consciousness. Therefore, how can I claim to know whether the rock on my porch likes listening to me sing or not? Of course, if I have no way of knowing, how does this theory help us?

Now, the rock may receive the vibrations of my wonderful singing voice bouncing off its minerally-skin and also resonating inside its crystally-heart... but does it like it? I mean, for something to have consciousness, it must be capable of perceiving the BIG PICTURE. Through sight, or sound, or something which sends signals to a discerning information center.

Of course, in cells, we find all kinds of moving parts. But then do we claim that our cells can perceive? What consciousness could they possibly have? They react. The machines inside have nervous responses. So... is that to say that my car has consciousness! I know that if a bird gets sucked into my intake, my car can't breathe well, it kicks and moans and groans and probably quits. But did it FEEL it? It doesn't have the proper tools to communicate to me, but does it PERCEIVE that it would tell me if it could? Just because I can set a rat trap, it doesn't mean that the rat trap is actually waiting for the rat to take the cheese... does it? I mean, it's automatic.

I just think, contuining to imagine and think, that it is utterly insane to believe that such a theory is even truly testable - therefore no good to science!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Absolutely it does. Not magically of course. But you define your reality.

If in your reality you can get any woman you want and do it on a consistent basis you are living in and reinforcing that reality.
However in someone else's reality this may not be the case. And they may do horribly with women. Because in their mind they don't believe they can do it.

For me my reality is that I'm IT and I'm pretty good with computers and I can resolve almost any issue I tackle.
For others they have problems using programs like word and excel.
But they call me over and tell me the problem and things start working like they should.
Is it magic? no. but am I defining my reality by knowing that I can resolve technical issues? yes.

Your mind is your limiting factor.


You must understand this "reality" you speak about....This is actually a dream world where you can get any woman you want on a consistent basis...Not reality


Learn to freakin read. I never stated that I can get any woman I wanted. Don't put words in my mouth.
However I do understand the dynamics of female attraction and have used that in the past with good effect. Your mindset in that regard definitely does affect your outcome with women.

I did state what my reality was.
And your snide little comment is not appreciated. You owe me an apology.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 





As for consciousness, It is something that we only perceive through ourselves! What my point is, is that the theory that consciousness abounds and creates the reality around us is silly because it is an untestable theory.


I disagree. Your reality is dictated by your mind.
If in your reality you want something bad enough. You will make it happen.
Or if in your reality your fear holds you back. It will never happen.

I understand your point that it's an untestable theory. But for me it's like the question if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?

Sure it does.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 





As for consciousness, It is something that we only perceive through ourselves! What my point is, is that the theory that consciousness abounds and creates the reality around us is silly because it is an untestable theory.


I disagree. Your reality is dictated by your mind.
If in your reality you want something bad enough. You will make it happen.
Or if in your reality your fear holds you back. It will never happen.

I understand your point that it's an untestable theory. But for me it's like the question if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?

Sure it does.


I disagree.

What we choose to perceive about reality is dictated by our mind. Reality is not "mine" to have.

But true to the point that if I want something bad enough, I'll make it happen.
And true that if fear holds you back, it might not ever happen.

The tree does make a sound, in my opinion. But then, is that not an untestable theory? How can you determine the existence of something without observing it or the effects of it?

Of course, we can go back into the woods and see a tree on the ground. It is obvious that the tree must have fallen (unless it grew sideways of course). So therefore, does it matter whether it made a sound or not? it is obvious that it was capable of being a part of an event without us around!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 

I disagree. Your reality is dictated by your mind.
If in your reality you want something bad enough. You will make it happen.
Or if in your reality your fear holds you back. It will never happen.

I understand your point that it's an untestable theory. But for me it's like the question if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound?

Sure it does.


It sure is untestable, thats why i find it a good topic for perspectives to explore it together, whether or not they agree.

i am not so sure even our personal reality is solely dictated by the "mind," but first, what do you personally define the "mind" as? i feel the mind is a result of our brain, and as such, resides alongside other systems which give their own.. "voices" to the overall perspective. However, these parts must be allowed to "be" and not be approached and contained within another system (such as our thought processes).

However, by overall concept you are presenting, i do agree. We most certainly decide how we are going to see the world and the different events that occur. To the extent that i feel that is the source of free will. The malleability and growth potential of our overall perspective.. must be experienced to be believed. We also can move our physical body and effect (by our context of physics) other material items around us, but obviously only to an extent. However, i feel it is a distinct possibility that due to the dualistic nature of our universe, that action based only from a dualistic source is "balanced" out, so "growth" is difficult. i see that this same experiential concept is applicable to systems interacting on other scales too, such as social interactions. A and B do not need to agree, but through openly exploring what "is" by relating our own limited experience, i thin we can truly start making movement, and consequently, begin "growing."
edit on 24-5-2011 by sinohptik because: clarifyin!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Now you're getting all quantum on me. Like the double slit experiment.
Reality changes because you observed it.

Maybe on the quantum level.

I understand where you're coming from. But just because we don't observe things doesn't mean it never happened.



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:37 PM
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Does our consciousness create the world around us?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

me thinks not !!!!
an illegal alien is still president
and the elite still control him

the Patriot Act still infringes upon the Constitution

etc .... etc ...

ad nauseum



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by TarzanBeta
 


Now you're getting all quantum on me. Like the double slit experiment.
Reality changes because you observed it.

Maybe on the quantum level.

I understand where you're coming from. But just because we don't observe things doesn't mean it never happened.



Forgive me, I'm not trying to be all quantum. And I do not mean that just because we don't observe things doesn't mean it never happened - in fact, I argue for the opposite! I admit the situations when we want to believe that things don't happen when we are not paying attention, but I believe that is narcissism to the fullest degree.

I do believe that I am a part of the world just like the rock. But I believe that I am conscious and that the rock is not conscious. And it seems to me that if the rock is not conscious, then the things that make it up are also not conscious. But do I believe that because I am conscious, there are parts of me that are independently conscious? I don't perceive that, so how could I possibly know that! And if I attempt to observe it, does it not? SO does it when I am not looking? These are the pointless questions that arise.

My whole point being that our consciousness does not create the world around us. It was created before us and we mold as we see fit. Consciousness requires the physical body as a conduit through which it might manifest what it desires. Now, we have the human body. What other conduits through which energy may shape the world before us exist? This is my point. I feel my words are not conveying what I'm imagining.. if only my consciousness would create it for me...




posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint
Does our consciousness create the world around us?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

me thinks not !!!!
an illegal alien is still president
and the elite still control him

the Patriot Act still infringes upon the Constitution

etc .... etc ...

ad nauseum


Some may argue that people secretly enjoy these things the way they are.

But that is not my belief. I believe you are right. There are a few who have learned to funnel the power to themselves so that they may manifest what they desire and therefore infringe upon not only the desires, but the natural born rights of all those who exist! So, you are right, if people were capable of using their minds alone to simply overturn a system which is corrupt, then people are doing a bad job at it...

but alas, physical things can only be fought physically by those who use the human body as the conduit.

(side-note : rulers learned that words were powerful in that people would perceive the words to be boundaries by which to live, therefore exerting an imaginary power which everyone made real by believing in it... and yet it still does not truly exist, but it is what we make of it, as our resident grey alien has informed us.) Thus, the illusion, the lie, did not actually create anything, but caused us to be deluded in our reasoning!



posted on May, 24 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Well, i think that if we were truly consciously creating the material universe, your own desires might be "over ruled" by the general consensus, which would inevitably be based solely upon well known and established systems of "change." So, even if more people wanted change than did not, it would be limited by the people to being done in the ways that are known and expected. In this case, elections, or worse case scenario, impeachment.

Also, maybe if there is nothing to "change to," then nothing will happen. We see many, many calls of change and revolution, but most of the ones i have seen do not propose another option. And, if one is proposed, i tend to see the exact same base problems that created the old issues in the first place. So, maybe if the process does not have any sort of foundation, it can not actually maintain any sort of structure built on it and therefore would not be capable of enacting actual change.

Thats not to say i think we actually do materialize the universe, just that there are many ways to look at it.



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