all 3 in melt down!!!

and for you that believe in the MSM and the so called experts here is this ecocentric.blogs.time.com...

What Fukushima's Triple Meltdown Means

the story so far, full version

Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) has said there have very likely been partial meltdowns at the other two reactors that were operating when the crisis began on March 11 as well. A spokesman for TEPCO, Japan's largest power company that has come under fire for its management of the crippled plant, said fuel rods at reactor No. 3 started melting March 13, two days after the 9.0 earthquake and ensuing tsunami struck the plant. Fuel rods at No. 2 probably started melting a day later, on March 14.

When the nuclear plant entered its state of emergency, the fuel rods inside these reactors began to melt from their upright position and slump down to the bottom of their containers, or pressure vessels, which are designed to keep them sealed up and isolated. That's a problem because the nuclear fuel in a state of meltdown can, in the worst-case scenario, burn through its container and the plant infrastructure to leak into the ground around the facility. That, as Eben wrote here last week, is known as a ‘China Syndrome,' and that's what we want to avoid.

Fortunately, it appears for now we have dodged that bullet, and the not-great-but-not-apocalyptic news du jour is that the meltdowns at Nos. 2 and 3 are not as bad as what occurred at No. 1. About 35% of the rods at 2 and 30% of the rods at 3 were damaged, compared to a near total meltdown at 1. A TEPCO spokesman said on Monday that while those melted fuel rods inside 2 and 3 are still sitting at the bottom of their containment vessels, they are covered in water and stable, and damage to the vessels is “limited.” The situation at No. 1 is the more critical: the fact that water levels inside the vessel are believed to be low indicates the slumped fuel may have permeated the vessel, creating holes through which contaminated water may be leaking into the plant.

Minimizing the damage to the nuclear fuel rods inside the damaged reactor buildings has been the highest priority of TEPCO and the Japanese government since this crisis began to unfold more than two months ago. When the earthquake and tsunami wiped out the main electricity, generators, and backup battery systems at the plant designed to keep the cooling reactors' cooling systems online, the race to find ways to keep the fuel cool was one. Some tactics – like having helicopters attempt (and mostly fail) to dump water over a reactor from the air – were designed more for PR than for practicality.

But in general, pouring water into the reactor cores has done what it's supposed to. Temperatures inside the reactors are still too high to stop cooling them, but they are stable enough that fuel is no longer melting. The highest levels of radiation were released into the atmosphere in the early days, too, when at least two and possibly three hydrogen explosions, the result of the building up of heat and steam inside the cores, occurred in the reactor buildings, releasing radioactive material into the atmosphere. It was also during those first days after the disaster that TEPCO, at the insistence of Kan's government, opened a vent in reactor 1 to relieve building pressure inside the building and prevent an explosion. (TEPCO hesitated to do so because the subsequent release of radiation into the atmosphere would push this crisis into Chernobyl territory. Too late.)

So why does the bad news from Fukushima keep coming? The utility says it is only starting to understand what it's dealing with. The problem with a nuclear accident is that the damage gets done early, and fast. Even after the makeshift cooling system started to work, TEPCO knew there was damage to the fuel inside the reactors, but, they say, it wasn't until radiation inside the reactor buildings dropped to safe enough levels for workers to go in and take measurements that the company could start to ascertain the problem. Some have argued that the release of the information was timed to have the least impact, now that life in Japan has started to get back to normalcy. “The situation will gradually be getting better,” says Dr. Bing Luk, TITLE TK. “As long as they keep the system cool, then it will just stay as is. In a few years, maybe they can start thinking about retrieving some of the fuel rods.”

That won't be happening anytime soon. If the fuel rods were intact, Luk says the standard machinery used to handle them could go in, pluck them out of the containment vessels and stick them in the spent fuel pools where fuel rods go to die. But as we've established, they're not intact, so instead TEPCO will have to leave the rods in situ while they lose potency. “If you can give them more time, the material will become less hot — both in terms of temperature and radioactivity,” Luk explains. Enter TEPCO's plan to build a containment structure around the plant by the end of the year. The structure, which would be a precursor to a more permanent one, would contain the low levels of radiation that are still leaking from the plant while the figure out how to get the melted fuel out of the reactors.

For now, barring any significant discovery of a breach in one of the vessels or a major leak into the environment, the discouraging news trickling out of the plant doesn't mean things are actively getting worse. It just means we're finding out how bad they are.

Read more: ecocentric.blogs.time.com...

love this line

For now, barring any significant discovery of a breach in one of the vessels or a major leak into the environment, the discouraging news trickling out of the plant doesn't mean things are actively getting worse. It just means we're finding out how bad they are.

in other words we know we just do not want to say so,not yet.

reply to post by unityemissions


it is interesting you say you will "check up on me" after posting:

This is your thread in an open-community forum. I am free to post my opinion.

do as i say, not as i do, eh?

to pred:

fair enough. i didn't take into account the weight of the particles. still... if they don't seal them off soon, they risk a much worse scenario. thats all i'm trying to say.

look at some of the chernobyl radiation spread maps. it wouldn't take much for this to turn into a devastating situation.

users.owt.com...

if it wasn't clear before, i do not think this is happening right now, nor do i think it will unless they are hit with another disaster. which is why they should seal off the reactors.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by unityemissions

 

it is interesting you say you will "check up on me" after posting:

This is your thread in an open-community forum. I am free to post my opinion.

do as i say, not as i do, eh?

You continue to post illogical statements.

You are free to post your opinion, but stating it as fact is entirely different.

Again, shame on you!

MELTDOWN so what, they have been in meltdown for close too 3 months now, yes big brown boom-boom, make poo poo,, so what,, there have been no big boom-boom, pacific salmon/tuna etc, harder too get, supply demand price will go up for what is available, that's law of jungle, i don't see any big worries here for the generation 55 and up as a very big deal, we only had 30 years anyway.
Just like the trillions of dollars of debt, not our problem,, maybe the generation that will take over from this last generation, will be able too fix everything.
I thought it was done for,,, the night i watched the big brown boom-boom at reactor 3 knowing when it went boom-boom it contained already proccessed weapons grade mixture of X,, anyone figure out what X ? is yet?

Just like too know what kills me,, "when asked on that day at Peters Gate,,, "cause of death,,,
X.
??? lol

i found this map showing the fallout of the plume thedesimag.com... i fell it note worth to paste the related text in full note this text is from mach 12th

apan has been hit with triple wave of devastation. First, the mega-quake at Sendai, then the cataclysmic tsunami, and now the potential for a meltdown of at least one, maybe two reactors. The death and destruction is testing a nation known for its resilience and resolve. Let us hope and pray that the nightmare of a nuclear meltdown does not materialize.

Three reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex are at risk of over heating and meltdown. The complex is 240 Km north of Tokyo. American Physicist Michio Kaku, whose parents were born in Japan, commented on the gravity of the situation on Saturday, March 12th. He described efforts to control the risk as “driving a car without brakes, which is out of control.” Explosions in the containment building forced the utility to expand the evacuation radius from 2 miles to 6 miles to 12 miles. If efforts to keep the nuclear rods cool fail, a full scale meltdown would be inevitable and would occur over a period of 30 minutes to several hours. After that, all bets are off as to the resulting calamity.

Needless to say, 12 miles will not protect residents from nuclear winds. Wind and weather are highly unpredictable. If the winds blow out to sea, what is the likelihood of dispersion of radiation? How does the radiation permeate into the eco-system? If winds blow back to the larger Japanese cities, the effect would be more immediate. Could wind patterns affect Hawaii or the west coast of the U.S.? We just don’t know.

The environmental, societal and economic impacts of a nuclear meltdown cannot be predicted. What we do know is that this entire series of events reminds us that our best engineering, planning and infrastructure cannot prepare us for all of the power which nature wields.

now that we know that there are 3 in melt down any one care to do the math???

Originally posted by bekod
i found this map showing the fallout of the plume thedesimag.com... i fell it note worth to paste the related text in full note this text is from mach 12th

apan has been hit with triple wave of devastation. First, the mega-quake at Sendai, then the cataclysmic tsunami, and now the potential for a meltdown of at least one, maybe two reactors. The death and destruction is testing a nation known for its resilience and resolve. Let us hope and pray that the nightmare of a nuclear meltdown does not materialize.

Three reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex are at risk of over heating and meltdown. The complex is 240 Km north of Tokyo. American Physicist Michio Kaku, whose parents were born in Japan, commented on the gravity of the situation on Saturday, March 12th. He described efforts to control the risk as “driving a car without brakes, which is out of control.” Explosions in the containment building forced the utility to expand the evacuation radius from 2 miles to 6 miles to 12 miles. If efforts to keep the nuclear rods cool fail, a full scale meltdown would be inevitable and would occur over a period of 30 minutes to several hours. After that, all bets are off as to the resulting calamity.

Needless to say, 12 miles will not protect residents from nuclear winds. Wind and weather are highly unpredictable. If the winds blow out to sea, what is the likelihood of dispersion of radiation? How does the radiation permeate into the eco-system? If winds blow back to the larger Japanese cities, the effect would be more immediate. Could wind patterns affect Hawaii or the west coast of the U.S.? We just don’t know.

The environmental, societal and economic impacts of a nuclear meltdown cannot be predicted. What we do know is that this entire series of events reminds us that our best engineering, planning and infrastructure cannot prepare us for all of the power which nature wields.

now that we know that there are 3 in melt down any one care to do the math???

Jesus, that map is still around? It's fake!!

How would the fallout be like that? Would it not have to take in account wind currents? I knew it was bunk wheni first looked at it.

Please stop spreading disinformation.

Pred...

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

to pred:

fair enough. i didn't take into account the weight of the particles. still... if they don't seal them off soon, they risk a much worse scenario. thats all i'm trying to say.

look at some of the chernobyl radiation spread maps. it wouldn't take much for this to turn into a devastating situation.

The situation will get worse as all three reactors will have to be sealed off to prevent radiation spread, and that's only airborne particulates. The sea will continue to be poisoned until the molten mass is taken care of.

Chernobyls spread was so dangerous because when the reactor core broke open it was fissioning. There were no moderator rods and the scram had not started, in Japan, the second the earthquake started the moderator rods were inserted and the fission process stopped.

In Chernobyl, there was also a huge explosion that released radiation into the jet stream, which happened, but on a much much smaller scale in Japan.

Pred...

why cant they dig a very big and deep hole,with appropriate vents and filters,close to these reactors,line it with lead and bury the stuff forever and seal it over?would it still pollute the Pacific?i mean there doesn't seam to be a real solution yet,there just throwing lives at it,i know conditions are less than perfect but whats the plan here?and wheres the international community to the rescue like Haiti,etc?I know the Japanese are humble people but cmon! if my neighbors house got wrecked and there was electrical lines down and a huge gas leak, i would go over and help,its time we think like the brothers,sisters,mothers and fathers that we are when big stuff like this happens,and open our doors to these people or god for bid if it ever happens to us! instead on watching this accident unfold,and continue it would be nice to hear attempts at a solution,short of jumping onto the reactors,i mean people must of thought of this one day happening

reply to post by predator0187
well how was i to know it is fake???? just because you say it is fake does that make it fake??? seemed real to me. for that could be the wind current for the 12th of march, not that it is that way now. and this is a place for debate. just tiered of the so called experts that change there mind, say one thing then tell something else and the MSM that falls for it

reply to post by all2human
that would be just to easy for them, no profit to be made nor would it be population control, had to say it.

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by predator0187

 

well how was i to know it is fake???? just because you say it is fake does that make it fake??? seemed real to me. for that could be the wind current for the 12th of march, not that it is that way now. and this is a place for debate. just tiered of the so called experts that change there mind, say one thing then tell something else and the MSM that falls for it

It was a 4chan hoax. My apologies for bitching, but that map scares people, all the colored fall out zones would be death zones and it would take days to get here. It was proven fake many of times, by many people.

I'm no expert by any means and will not change my mind on Fukushima, as they physics do not change, what can change my opinion though is new information.

Pred...

Originally posted by all2human
why cant they dig a very big and deep hole,with appropriate vents and filters,close to these reactors,line it with lead and bury the stuff forever and seal it over?would it still pollute the Pacific?i mean there doesn't seam to be a real solution yet,there just throwing lives at it,i know conditions are less than perfect but whats the plan here?and wheres the international community to the rescue like Haiti,etc?

edit on 24-5-2011 by all2human because: (no reason given)

They cannot dig underneath of the reactors because of the ground water level. That's the horrible part about it being so close to the ocean. They could built a pit farther inland but the problem becomes getting the molten mass to the pit. With the temperatures achieved by the fission process and if it hits super criticality there is not containing it, hence the "china syndrome". Although that in itself is theoretically impossible because when it hit magma it would become so dispersed.

There is no real solution as of yet, this is uncharted waters. They got lucky with chernobyl when they dumped the sand/boron mixture on top and that created a glass "container" around the mass. Why they haven't done something similar is beyond me.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187
your forgiven now here is a real site www.bousai.ne.jp... from the link

Disaster Prevention and Nuclear Safety Network for NuclearEnvironments
Nuclear Safety Division Ministry of Education Cluture Sports Science and Technology
Disaster Prevention Network for Nuclear Environment
-Ministry of Education Culture Sports Science and Technology (MEXT) -

note there is no data so how do we know how much rad is pouring out?? and then this from Bloomberg www.bloomberg.com... from the link, note not one word as to how bad in % rate

Tepco Says Fuel Rods Melted Down in Two More Reactors at Fukushima Plant
By Takeshi Awaji and Yuji Okada - May 24, 2011 2:58 AM MT

full text

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said fuel rods melted in two more reactors at its Fukushima nuclear plant, indicating for the first time that damage from the March 11 earthquake and tsunami is matching worse-case-scenarios.

Fuel rods in reactors 2 and 3 had almost complete meltdowns, spokesman Junichi Matsumoto told reporters in Tokyo today. That’s in line with U.S. assessments in the early days of the crisis that suggested damage to the station was more severe than Tokyo Electric officials estimated.

The meltdown of the cores is the “greatest at the No. 1 reactor, followed by the No. 3 unit and then No. 2,” Matsumoto said. The analysis of the damage became possible “after data from the central control room was retrieved.”

Japan’s biggest utility, known as Tepco, raised the possibility of more extensive destruction when it announced last week -- more than two months after the disaster -- that fuel rods in the No. 1 reactor had melted within 16 hours of the quake and cooling water was below the base of the rods.

“When Tepco announced there wasn’t any water in the No. 1 reactor pressure vessel, the speculation was that had also happened in No. 2 and No. 3 reactors,” said Ken Nakajima, a professor of nuclear engineering at Kyoto University who specializes in reactor safety. “Now, they have confirmed what everyone expected.”

Tepco has been struggling to cool reactors and spent fuel pools to stop radiation leaks and resolve the world’s worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl in 1986. On April 17 it set out a so-called road map to end the crisis in six to nine months.
Cold Shutdown

The utility said it expects to achieve a sustained drop in radiation levels at the plant within three months, followed by a cold shutdown, where core reactor temperatures fall below 100 degrees Celsius.

It reiterated the timetable last week in an update of the plan, drawing criticism from Tetsuo Ito, head of the Atomic Energy Research Institute at Kinki University in western Japan.

Setting a timetable without knowing the condition of the reactor cores doesn’t make sense, Ito said in a phone interview from Osaka.

Today, Tepco’s Matsumoto said fuel rods in the No. 3 unit started melting on March 13 and those in the No. 2 reactor on March 14, The fuel dropped to the bottom of the pressure vessel after melting although the damage to the vessel is “limited,” he said, without giving details.
Fuel Rods

Tepco shares closed little changed today at 333 yen in Tokyo. The stock has slumped about 85 percent since the quake and tsunami struck.

The fuel rods in the No. 1 reactor started melting about four and a half hours after the magnitude-9 earthquake when the water level in the reactor core vessel fell below the base of the assembly, Tepco said last week.

Engineers established the extent of the damage after fixing gauges in the reactor No. 1 building. The building was damaged by a hydrogen explosion on March 12. Workers were sent into the No. 2 and 3 buildings last week to establish whether repairs could be carried out on gauges.

slowly the full extent of this is coming to light with 1570+ news articles on this it is hard to chose the right one to post

reply to post by bekod


Well, we have good old physics for that. There are also Geiger counters all around the plants. A reactor only has a certain mass and a certain percentage of enriched uranium, it cannot reach the point of a nuclear bomb because we are dealing with much different percentage of enriched uranium.

I say it all the time, Japanese people are the ones that have to worry, here in North America we are pretty safe. As this continues to go on the pacific will becomes much more poisoned. Which will be a big problem.

Pred...

reply to post by predator0187
yes that is the big worry how much rad is going into the sea and in the air japan will be the hardest hit but with wind and ocean currents a little over time adds up to a lot, yes it is depleted over time, but do they not have different type of fuel rods?????

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by predator0187

 

yes that is the big worry how much rad is going into the sea and in the air japan will be the hardest hit but with wind and ocean currents a little over time adds up to a lot, yes it is depleted over time, but do they not have different type of fuel rods?????

Yea, but plutonium is pretty heavy and will have a hard time getting over here. It will be horrible in Japan, but here negligible.

Plutoniums radiation is beta decay, which can be blocked with a sheet of paper and doesn't travel very far. the only problem with plutonium is ingestion.

Pred...

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by bekod

 

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

I don't generally respond to people who bastardize the English language as much as you have.

when you make a counter claim you are making a claim....you saying he is full of BS is a claim in the opposite of his claim. He says were all dead...you say were not. So...prove your claim that were not.

In all actualtiy he is 100% correct in his claim were all dead unless you know someone who is immortal? I didn't necessarily see him specifically claim how were all going to die or when, thus no claim to that was made and no evidence/proof needed.

I mean if you want to play "technical" ball....you are the one making false claims.

reply to post by bekod


Haha, yes it was sarcasm. Apparently the mod was offended as he removed it for being 'off topic' (though not off topic what so ever).

I do not think this is a good situation at all folks.

I personally think the earthquake and nuclear plant failure was because of the 'Whale Wars' guys. No source needed.

i know harrold camping has made a fool of himself but i think its kinda interesting that his prediction date of may 21 coincides with the quadrupling of measurable radiation at the plant which some think may indicate a major breach of at least one level of containment of the melted fuel.

also could someone explain how, now that the reaction is out of control in 3 units, we can expect that ANYTHING can stop these cores from doing the China Syndrome thing? if the cores have melted through one barrier, obviously the firetruck cooling method is woefully inadequate. whats going to stop them from eventually/inevitably contacting ground water and exploding? should we not fully expect that result?

reply to post by Urantia1111


China Syndrome

can't even watch the movie on-line any more,, you could before u know what happened. lol