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Is it fair to fine fat people for not dieting?

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posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent

Wish I could star your post many more times.

I would like to point out..... again..... that 3 types of gut have now also been discovered. One type which increases the likelihood of obesity.

But... people who just have to have someone to bash on, and have chosen those who are overweight, will never look in the mirror themselves and deny ignorance. I say they should be taxed for having a mental disorder which causes them to not feel good about themselves unless they are picking on someone else.

A "fat tax" would be like taxing people for being born with a rare blood type, a certain hair or eye color, or height.

I would have thought that in this day and age, with all the studies showing obesity to be linked to genes and now gut types, that people would finally start realizing that people are......... born to be skinny, or born to be overweight. If you are born to be skinny, you can eat all you want and almost never become overweight ie: my skinny sister, or born to be overweight ie: myself. I have to watch every single thing I eat and pay attention to my exercise. If I were to eat and live like my sister, I would be obese. As it is, I stay within my target weight range with intense care.

www.sciencecodex.com... obiota


Relationship with BMI The study shows a connection between human characteristics and gut microbiota. For instance, correlations were found between the Body Mass Index (BMI) and the strains of bacteria in the gut. The more efficiently the bacteria can extract energy from the food, the greater the chance that the person has a high BMI (and therefore struggles with obesity). The researchers found that the presence of certain bacterial genes could serve as diagnostic and/or predictive markers for obesity. This finding is currently undergoing further testing in a clinical study in a group of over 100 individuals. This involves examining the DNA of the complete gut microbiome of those.


www.futurepundit.com...


If you have the wrong ratios of bacterial strains you are at greater risk of obesity. A link between obesity and the microbial communities living in our guts is suggested by new research at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. The findings indicate that our gut microbes are biomarkers, mediators and potential therapeutic targets in the war against the worldwide obesity epidemic.


or this one

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


The proposed methods by which the microbiome may contribute to obesity include increasing dietary energy harvest, promoting fat deposition, and triggering systemic inflammation. Future treatments for obesity may involve modulation of gut microbiota using probiotics or prebiotics.


DENY IGNORANCE!!

Harm None
Peace
edit on 19-5-2011 by amazed because: weird quote thingy happening

edit on 19-5-2011 by amazed because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-5-2011 by amazed because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
BS Sky, my mother ate less in 24 hours than you probably do in one meal.............she walked miles a day because she worked at Browns Shoe Company in St. Louis and had to take three buses in order to get me to a nursery school/day care and than to her work................my mother ate little to nothing as did my sister.


So you say. That doesnt change the most of obesity is due to the combo of wrong foods, lack of movement and emotional issues. Again: Where is the obesity in prisons? If it were mainly genetic there would be obesity there too.

Your referencing science is supposed to accomplish that people believe overweight is genetic?



My doctor agrees, it's basically genes/DNA...........................do your research, it's out there.


The solution to overweight, for most people, is closer to a gym than to a research library. Those who have taken the proper steps have lost weight and kept their good weight. Its not a big secret how they have achieved that. The very few who are genetically predisposed can get medical assistance.

Your appeal to authority ("My doctor agrees") is meaningless.
edit on 19-5-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


I keep seeing the word diet. What is required is not a special diet. It is a life style change. All of these special diets will destroy you eventually. Fasting is bad for you and so is starving your body of vital fuel. You really aren't supposed to go more than five hours without eating unless you are asleep.

What people need to understand is that calories are a unit of fuel. Your body only needs x number per day. If you eat more you gain weight. You eat less and you lose weight.Try to make sure that 1/3 of your calories come from protein. Get as much of the rest from things you would find in a "hunter gatherer" diet as you can. Plus add in excercise.

I don't mean arobics or anything like that. Take it easy. Start out doing elevated pushups or simple arm curls. Building muscle will help you lose weight faster. It takes more calories to maintain muscle than fat.

It is about lifestyle changes. People getting sucked in by the "hollywood secret diet" are bound for disapointment. Diets don't work and trying to look like Paris Hilton isn't going to work. If you need to lose 100lbs start by eating the calories for the weight ten pound below where you are. As you adjust move down ten more. Do that untill you are eating for your ideal weight. Eventually you will get there. It is a slow process but it will work. You just have to remember not to fast or go to long between meals and snacks.

We're preaching the same message basically. Love youself and take the slow safe steps to become healthy. It is possible if you are willing to stick to it.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


So you say.

Do some studies, read the links given by several of us here and deny ignorance instead of supporting ignorance. I would have thought that forum moderators were held to a higher standard. But IMO I have just been proven wrong.

Read the links some of us have shared, you may find your brain getting bigger and your empathy growing.

Harm None
Peace



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by amazed


Do some studies, read the links given by several of us here and deny ignorance instead of supporting ignorance. I would have thought that forum moderators were held to a higher standard. But IMO I have just been proven wrong.

Read the links some of us have shared, you may find your brain getting bigger and your empathy growing.


I was once overweight. One side of the table told me to cut down on carbs and do exercise. The other side told me to do my research and find that its genetic and I cant lose weight easily. Today Im glad I chose the change of foods and exercise path instead of the "I cant do much about it its, genetic path".

If you see this as ignorance and a lack of empathy, so be it.

I cant believe I have to have an argument that bad eating and lack of movement causes overweight. This is how dumbed down things have become.
edit on 19-5-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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The "its the genetics" crowd is the same crowd on threads about smoking, threads about ADHD, threads about various illnesses and so forth. I dont deny that there are genetic predispositions, but to blame it MAINLY on genetics is a denial of personal responsibility. If I start smoking or if I order an X-large cup of soda is my choice and my responsibility and WILL have an effect on my body no matter if I have good genes or not.

This whole idea that people are not responsible for their obesity is, in my eyes, nothing but a set-up for further welfare-concepts, healthcare-concepts, taxation-concepts.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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NO it isnt fair..thats singling a group of humans out and picking on them or in a sense..genociding them.. making them pay for something that might have stemed from no fault of thier own, aka DNA or genetics flaw, or the crappy unhealhty food made today full of perservatives, chemicals, carrcinogens, industry standards..how is that a fat persons fault then? taxing them, making them pay for that, is stealing and singling them out for no good reason.
ever heard of the right to mind yuor own business? too bad in todays world, its like they wanna catalogue you based on yuo apperance. now thats sick and twisted! and an invasion of privacy



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I agree with many people a life style change is in order.

However, in my case I have lost and have kept off 125 pounds..............but my doctor is amazed at my running log 1 mile every day for 30 minutes (or more sometimes 40) and yet I cannot consume a little over 1,000 calories.

Anytime I consume more than 1,300 calories, I gain and I am pretty active besides treadmill and now starting on my elliptical machine.

Both my parents were big as was my brother was huge and they were all fairly active, walked a lot everywhere.

We are still in the dark ages when it comes to both how our brain works and our DNA structure.

And yes scientists are now saying some people are more prone towards obesity due to their genes, this is a scientific fact if you research you will see that with each year they are finding that because the human species, for the most part was in starvation mode only those that could store fat efficently survived and produced off spring.

I now weigh 125 and am 5'3".................... as stated before I cannot consume (even with daily exercise) more than 1,300 calories or I gain)

Out of curiousity how tall are you, how much do you weigh and do you walk 1 mile every day at 2.0 mps with an incline of 10?

Also, with age..........................at 20-30 I could eat anything and not gain one ounce. Once I started having babies and reached 30 I found that I could no longer eat a normal 1,500 calories a day.

If I did not exercise everyday 7 days a week now I would only be able to consume 1,000 calories a day and I am still about 5 pounds over weight, at 5'3 I should be about 120.

By research, I read monthly medical journals and yes, scientists are now saying that genes do make up a large part of how our bodies handle food, temperature even thought process................genes - DNA.

I do not mean to be argumentative or disrespectful but you are talking to someone who must count every single thing I put in my mouth and again with each passing decade even with exercise and a proper diet I find that my body requires less calories to keep my weight off.

Again, I have friends that are about my age maybe a little younger and they eat two to three times what I eat and they eat really fattening food and don't exercise and stay bone thin.................pictures of their family from way back show very thin people.

Pictures of my family back through the late 1880's show a stout Scotch, Welsh, Irish stock.

You plant a sunflower, don't expect a rose.

I worked on a farm and saw first hand breeding practices....................yes genes do really count.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by HUMBLEONE
 


Skinny people are like people who "made it' and think it's all because of their efforts.............while a lot of "success" via life, money, weight, etc is due to effort some of it is luck or draw of the dice and many people just don't realize this..........it's not their fault, they simply do not know what it is like to have to weigh, measure and count every single thing you put in your mouth in order to maintain a "proper weight" and be "socially acceptable".

And yes again you are right, skinny people are very prejudice against bigger folks, been there and the amount of meaness and lack of humanity astounded me.

It is now politically wrong to be prejudice against anyone because of race or religion...............but it's okay to bash "fat people".

Why can't everyone just be nice and try to help and support each other rather than rip and tear each other apart?

I don't understand the meaness, there always has to be a whipping boy...........someone to bash on.

Your post made my day, it was funny and yes you are sexy...............we are all sexy.


One last thought - has anyone considered that now it is normal practice to put growth hormones in our milking and beef (food) cattle?????

Ya think this might also cross over into our food chain and we thus consume some of the growth hormone the big chemical companies are using to fatten up the cattle quickly?????

Nobody seems to have hit upon this.

And, our cows, chicken, rabbits, eggs, milk and vegetables on our farm tasted completely different than what I now have to go to the store and buy...............completely different.



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by amazed
 


Good point amazed, try telling that to some other posters..................they just don't get it.

Now again I'm going to say this for the thousandth time, I lived on a farm and we did not give our cows, chicken, sheep, rabbits, any growth hormones................we only used cow manure to grow our veggies and we were never sick, fat, and the taste of our produce and animals was far far better than anything I have come across in years.

Now with GMO vegetables, heaven knows what we are really consuming.

Talk about conspiracies.........................it's almost like we are intentionally being fattened up and maybe this post should go in the ufo/alien bin, ya think?



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Under Water
 


And you are probably pretty much right on the money.................very good post!



The noose is being tightened a little at a time, too fast and there would be rebellion, so TPTB are hanging our liberties slowly, inch by inch.

Reminds me, I have to get my drivers license changed to my new 125 pound weight
My face doesn't even look the same.

GMO salad - you have to wonder what they are putting into our food?



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by amazed
 


Well then you will just have to add me as a friend as I have done for you................you know and I know that it's not a matter of "will power" as much as "gene / DNA power".

Everyday to maintain my weight loss is a real struggle that those skinny twitches don't have a clue to because they can shove any old thing in their mouth and pig out without so much as a care.

I was like that until I hit 30.

Didn't have a clue. Had to experience it for myself before I realized the heartache.




posted on May, 19 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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If they are government employees who derive their health care from the taxpayers pockets they should be required to abstain from being obese. We should not have to foot the bill for their unhealthy lifestyle.

If they are a private citizen who is not on the government payroll then the free market should adjust their premiums accordingly. No regulation is needed.


edit on 5/19/2011 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Should an MP / Senator / Congressman be fined for being overweight? or any civil servant for that matter. They too receive public funds.


They are employees who are supposed to do something for their funds (even if that varies, many arguments here.) These people are getting free money for doing nothing, literally. They are already a drain on society. If you want to live like a fat slob, get a job and pay for it yourself. You are FREE to get a job. Go for it.


What were you doing in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday that was so non-essential you had the time to come here and cast judgment on total strangers? What do you contribute that makes you so certain you deserve everything you have, as well as the inherent right to judge who doesn't deserve what they have? What incredibly valuable work for society is it that you do which leaves you enough time to come complain about fat people on the internet?

As for the question at hand: I'm medically underweight. Do people think, if I were on welfare, that I should be forced to eat more, since being underweight is just as physically dangerous as being overweight? If so, why does that never, ever seem to come up when discussing the use of coercion to alter people's weight? Is it because this has little to do with health? I think so.
edit on 19-5-2011 by sepermeru because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


It's all a matter of degrees................my doctor says just two more numbers and my thyroid would be classified as "underactive".

If I do 1 mile a day 2.0 mph with an incline of 10 every single day I can safely, without gaining a pound, consume up to 1,300 calories. Not one calorie more or I gain I know this because I have now charted with CalorieKing my calorie consumption for three years.

If I do not run my mile (and it's walking fast at 2.0 mph but my inseam is only 29" so it's almost like running to me).....................I would gain weight.

You were once fat too............but how many calories can you consume without gaining? Do you do a mile every day? Were both of your parents fat?

It varies per person according not only to exercise but on a molecular structure as well.

Do you dream about food every night?

Another thing, as one ages the amount of food you require, even with exercise gets less and less to maintain body weight..............by the time I am in my 60's even with walking I will probably be able to only consume about 800-900 calories a day.

My guess is you are in your 30's or 40's................weight (pun intended) until you hit that magical 55 mark.

For me once I hit 55 it was poopville............no matter what I did that weight would not come off.

Once I had the gastric bypass and for the first two - three months had less than 500 calories per day the weight did came off, but that was after major surgery and 500 calories a day.

Look at the pictures of your parents................on a genetic level if one is fat your chances of obesity are 50%. If both were fat your chances are 100%.

Both of my parents were fairly active, ate very little, I never ever saw my mother eat any cake, candy, pizza, fried foods, cookies, pie, or any portion larger than a tablespoon of anything. My sister says my father likewise ate very little if anything. My sister was 12 years older than me so she was very aware of what they ate. They never went out to lunch....................My mother would eat one peanut butter sandwich, one apple and a cup of coffee.

At dinner she would have a tablespoon of meat, veggie and starch.

And at bed she would have one beer while sitting on the end of her bed (we shared a bedroom) and watch the traffic.

I would bet you don't even have that amount of will power.

My husband is my biggest fan, he can eat eat eat and not gain an ounce, he does exercise and watch high cholestrol foods but he does snack on Doritos and pretzel twists that I can never touch.

My husband says I have something going on with my body that he has never seen anyone not be able to hold onto food like I do and not lose.

He also says that I have one of the best self control will power of any person he has ever met in order to maintain my weight. He doesn't know how I am able to control myself so well.

It will be a day by day battle for the rest of my life.

So there



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by MikeNice81
 


I have noticed people eat as if they are doing hard manual labor all day, or hard training for a sport etc. Problem is they are sitting at a desk all day, then going home and riding the couch after work.....

I think most people really don't know what hunger is. They mistake being bored as being hungry, and establish a major bad habit. I eat when I get hungry, not because it is a certain time of day like most people. When I am working hard all day, yeah I do get hungry two or three times a day, and eat accordingly. When I am not working it is only once a day I get hungry most times, unless I am circut training hard.

Then again I started my life pretty poor and know what hunger really feels like.
edit on Thu, 19 May 2011 14:32:00 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


BS Sky, my mother ate less in 24 hours than you probably do in one meal.............she walked miles a day because she worked at Browns Shoe Company in St. Louis and had to take three buses in order to get me to a nursery school/day care and than to her work................my mother ate little to nothing as did my sister.

I asked my sister how she was able to stay thin, and she said "I don't eat" and my sister very rarely ate, she at 5'7" ate even less than my mother did.

Many people are fat because they over eat yes, but I myself cannot go over 1,000 calories a day except if I do a mile in 30 minutes with a incline of 10 and I'm still fighting weight.


Maybe you are hypothyroid. Get your blood tested for that.

Thyroid issues are a real condition. When you have hypothyroidism, your metabolism slows down.

edit on 19-5-2011 by Mercurio because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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Look how fast RACISM and NAZI'ISM/FACISM, evil, absolute VAIN, POMPOUS UGLY JUDGEMENTAL AND SELF RIGHTEOUS DEMONS are going with this deliberate attack on normal people, normal variations of people, though actually they're victims of the massive radiation and plutonium and codex alimentarius for years.

jezebel.com...

Mississippi House is trying to put a bill through that will prevent restaurants from serving "FAT" People.

Stand up for your rights everyone, its time for bullhorns and not sit down till they're out.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Mercurio
 


Thank you for the advice.

My doctor says I am borderline hypothyroid.

Now as a background...............My mother was born December 10, 1910 (had me late in life).

While she was young ? (6-8?) She developed tonsillitis which around 1916-1920 was treated not by surgery but by placing the patient in front of an x-ray machine and given a couple good zaps.

Science was just beginning to learn about radiation and x-ray machines back then were not regulated like they are now...............heaven only knows how many rems she go.

My mother died at age 53 from either lung or thyroid cancer, they were not sure.

Now, while my mother was zapped, one of her eggs already inside of her ovaries was going to be me.

I was born with cataracts, a cleft palate and a severe hearing loss.

Radiation is dangerous stuff............it alters your DNA from then on in ways we are still not sure about.

What I am getting at is each case is different and again we are talking about penalizing people based on something that is not totally in their control.

Again, I face a battle every single day and must micro manage my calorie intake that several people, my husband, my doctor and my girlfriends say I have unbelieveable control to keep my weight from returning.

To a person with a normal metabolism, they just simply do not understand.

And I'm not talking about the average person who is 20-30 pounds overweight.

Real morbidly obese people usually do have some type of metabolical problem and after a while, just give up.

My doctor says that my "numbers" for my thyroid are below average but not yet low enough to give me medicine.

There are also side effects from thyroid medicine.

Penalizing someone when they should be helped is cruel and heartless.

People like to think they are empathetic but until you have really walked ten miles in someone else's shoes, people should stop judging others.

Exercising is the way to go for everyone - any kind of exercise. It has proven very helpful and I will just have to increase my exercise (step it up a level).

Thank you again............I've been to several doctors for second opinions and all three said, my thyroid levels are below average but not enough for medication.

I also cannot stress enough and nobody seems to be thinking about the fact that our food has changed drastically in the past 30-40 years..............going from natural seeds to GMO (Frankenfoods) as well as almost all our animal protein is fed growth hormones. I eat a very small amount of free range organic chicken, eggs and some wild salmon. I do not eat beef, pig, lamb or any other animals.

Anyone eating out and ordering a hamburger, cheese, milk, if the meat/dairy product is not listed as organic, than your food has probably been fed growth hormones.

The growth hormones, I suspect must carry over and affect the person partaking of the animal / dairy product they are eating.



posted on May, 20 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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The excuses continue. Yes, being fat is genetic. That's why the majority of Africa and South America are obese, just like the good old US of A, and the Europeans didn't have a problem with childhood obesity until the American fast food companies moved in.


I guess its why eventhough genes are passed from one generation to the next, this generation is gaining weight at a rate never seen before.


Kids now it unhealthier, have PE classes cut from school, play video games instead of sports, and overall are much less active than any previous generation.

I also guess it's impossible for some of you to find the time to exercise, eventhough many of you have well over 1000 posts, and spends hours on here every week. It's priorities, and people don't prioritize their health, because it takes a little thought and effort. Sitting online eating pizza is always easier.

edit on 20-5-2011 by MysticPearl because: (no reason given)



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