Shell no longer needed in China

Originally posted by Dragonfly79

In short, Dutch Shell agreed upon a 50-50 joint venture with Chinese CNOOC for building an installation costing $4.3bln which was constructed in 2006.

However the Chinese seem to have enough of the expensive expats and do not require Western technical know how anymore so they're planning to build another $7.5bln costing refinery in the vicinity leaving Shell out of the deal. Not only that but China will likely change the deal about the joint-venture making it a 30-70 deal in favor of the Chinese, following a trend indicating Chinese companies are gaining dominance over the Chinese market, driving already established Western companies out of it's market.

from: China Daily

Shell is offering to relinquish about 20 percent of its stake in CSPC to gain about a 30 percent stake in the planned refining plant, several CNOOC officials said without elaborating

So they are not simply reducing Shell's share in the first refinery. Shell is offering that up for a stake in the new, much larger, refinery. If they are not granted a share in the new project, they will not lose part of their stake in the old (and not planned to be closed) refinery. It could be a simple translation issue, but it's more likely caused by anti-China sentiment.

On the other posts a lot of people seem to think China has some human rights issues. Surely they do, but before you go all gung-ho on China, take a loot at US rights violations... and UN rights violations... I'll just list a single one here because the list is far too long to get into in any detail: Sanctions on Iraq... the first two people in charge of the UN sanctions resigned stating (and not being permitted to protest at UN conventions) that the effect was equivalent to genocide...

Originally posted by TonyBravada

On the other posts a lot of people seem to think China has some human rights issues. Surely they do, but before you go all gung-ho on China, take a loot at US rights violations... and UN rights violations..

Im not making a moral judgment on China in favor of the US, just to be clear. Or the UN for that matter.
Im just pointing out that China will and has let millions of its own people starve to further its economic ends. We do a lot of bad stuff to OTHER people, but we arent quite there yet in terms of ruthlessness in the name of economic growth at the expense of our own people.

When you are dealing with a nation whose leaders will act like that to their own people, to further their economic goals, what exactly can you expect them to do to you? That is my point.

I think western companies are so used to having their butts kissed, and having laws made that favor them, etc, in the west for hundreds of years, that they really have no idea who and what they are dealing with. China is going to play ball with them for as long as it is in Chinas best interest to do so, and they are, and have been strategizing how to gain the competitive edge as quickly as they can, and when they do, its all over for those western companies. Mark my words.

China is being much more careful about letting corporations wage their hearts and minds campaign in China that they have waged so successfully here, in Europe, and elsewhere.

America like most western countries seem to be playing a short term game. just like a crack addict only concerned about their latest hit. While china like most asians i have seen support and buy only or mostly asian products, they are playing the long term game. most middle to upper class chinese will buy a honda or toyota over an audi or a bmw. watch for it next time.

reply to post by tim3lord


I grew up in Hawaii, and I have a lot of Asian friends whose parents came from China or Japan. And they are crazy loyal and nationalistic. I dont think a lot of mainland Americans and American business people really get that.

Its just another reason I know that western corporations have no idea what they are messing with. When the tables turn, they wont know what hit them.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



oh yeah they will use and abuse. they are methodical and logical. they know its a race and they plan on winning it. western business got too fat and lazy. now they will pay the price.

reply to post by tim3lord


They are right too. It is a competition. A game. Western businesses just forgot that the country that makes you is of value to you. They are so stupid and arrogant they think they made themselves.

Adam Smith wrote "the wealth of nations" not the "wealth of a few greedy individuals." It is a competition. Thats the whole game of life on Earth. Competition. And for humans, that means competition between groups. Corporations have been in charge here so long and in Europe, that they dont think about it that way. They see themselves like aristocrats, above the people and the nation.

Not everyone does. Smart people love and defend their nation as if it were their own life. Because it is. Without your group, your tribe, your nation, you are nothing. Since they took it upon themselves to go overseas, the smartest thing for America to do is shut the door. And rebuild. And tax the holy crap out of anything these corporations try to bring back into the country. China is like that. And its working for them. Import as little as you can, export everything you can. And save and invest for the future.

They are also buying up arable land around the world.

www.nakedcapitalism.com...

Chinese companies will be encouraged to buy farmland abroad, particularly in Africa and South America, to help guarantee food security under a plan being considered by Beijing.

A proposal drafted by the Ministry of Agriculture would make supporting offshore land acquisition by domestic agricultural companies a central government policy. Beijing already has similar policies to boost offshore investment by state-owned banks, manufacturers and oil companies, but offshore agricultural investment has so far been limited to a few small projects.

If approved, the plan could face intense opposition abroad given surging global food prices and deforestation fears. However an official close to the deliberations said it was likely to be adopted…..

af.reuters.com...

SOFIA May 13 (Reuters) - Two Chinese companies have expressed interest in buying land in Bulgaria to grow crops and make wine for their own country, the agriculture ministry of the Balkan country said on Friday.

The Tianjin State Farms Agribusiness Group Company, specialists in farming and food processing, plans to rent or buy up to 10,000 hectares of arable land and grow mainly corn, alfalfa and other fodder crops to be exported to China.

shockedinvestor.blogspot.com...

Canadian newspaper Ottawa Citizen reports today that Chinese investors are buying Canadian farmland, raising many concerns throughout the country.

The issue is Chinese' growing middle class. Hundreds of millions of people in China modified their eating habits and are consuming vastly larger quantities of meat and higher protein foods. There isn't simply enough arable land in China to meet this new demand. hence, the Chinese interest in fertilizers and agricultural lands (not to mention base metals and other materials).

They think waaay ahead. And western business people think from quarter to quarter, as evidenced by our economic cluster pluck.

reply to post by donatellanator


My apologies,
I was not trying to imply that you do not understand what is going on over there. I was trying to impress that I see human rights issues in China are reported by our MSM as a kind of divertionary tactic. It serves to vilify some other regime when really our attention should be on the crap that is going on in our own countries and the millions of our own countryfolk that are living on the poverty line due to their corrupt and or incompetent practices.

I worked for shell oil in Iran in 2005 and I still really dont understand how that was OK given the international sanction situation, truth is these corporations find a way around every international law because they bankroll the election campaigns of the worlds elite and then call in the favours once their stooge is sitting in the big chair.

makes me sick

PEACE,
RK

If I had any such authority I would drive them out of business here, too.

These ginormous oil companies are the very reason we are still dependent on oil.

Oil as an energy source is about 100 years overdue for being replaced by my reckoning.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Oh man for some reason the big boys and corporations think that the game they are playing is new, and some even think that they invented the game, there all just waiting to show everybody there cool new tricks, but little do they know that there is nothing new under the sun.

Oh to be sure, they are sorely mistaken if they think they can out capitalize the Chinese, just because the chinese are communists does not mean that they are not better capitalists, then the ones who think that they invented capitalism or that it's a new system. And of course they are fools for abandoning the very nation that made them. Want to know what will happen....Watch them all flee to back to the greener pastures of were they came from when the time comes, like rats in a sinking ship. I't will be funny..... Meanwhile back in metropolis!....things move along and change, you see there are always other ways.

Heres a story....In the land of oz were they all follow the yellow brick road in all its golden splendor, while the munchkins cheer them on as there saviors, past the wicked witch of the west and her army of suits always singing "oh we owe'. They will eventually reach the emerald city, and meet the great wizard of oz, and once they see behind the curtain and past the smoke and mirrors, as one they will click there silver heals together and say. THERE IS NO PLACE LIKE HOME.

Cool story huh! have you heard it before op? I seen it on TV once. And now! I wander whats on the other channels? Click.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


80% of the property boom here is australia is because of a mass influx of chinese investors buying investment properties here. The massive demand Vs short supply saw houses go up in value by 120% in 10 years. thats how much they flooded the market. If you didnt get a house here in melbourne in the last 10 years good luck getting one and paying it off in the next 30 years.

The housing bubble has stopped now and even revered a bit but thats because of the global financial instability.

No need to feel sorry for malicious corporations like Royal Dutch Shell, and I'm saying that as a Dutch person who used to be proud of Shell before the internet helped us to uncover their true nature. I just finished a documentary last week, in which former Shell CEO Jeroen van de Veer had a slip of the tongue by saying that politics and oil are intertwined, he rephrased himself immediately saying these two are connected.

The show went on to show evidence of how companies like BP are dictating British foreign policy (BP more or less demanded from Tony Blair to pressure Gaddafi to give BP a multi-billion contract in Libya; a couple of months later the deal was settled).

Not that the Chinese are any better, but the people of the world should take back the resources that are ours - not that of corporate conglomerates.

I agree with some things mentioned in this post. Like that the chinese human rights violation are just HORRIBLE.

Now when its comes to shell and how they treat their employees. the company is spottless when it comes to HR. atleast to my experience. They treat all emplyed by shell the same way. They have great HSSE rules etc. and are marked leaders and inovativ. its probably the best private company in the world. (Personal oppinion backed up by fact)

Now i know they done a few things that are bad. Oil sands, And that issue with nigeria. But the nigerians keept on blowing up the pies while shell was closeing down shop ? kinda stupid idea wouldnt you think ?