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Where do you draw the line between human and ape?

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posted on May, 8 2011 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 


Ok, so you're going to post an 8 minute video and I have to reply to all of that? I'm sorry, but how does HAR1 provide evidence against evolution?

There is nothing against accelerated regional mutation in the modern evolutionary synthesis. Hell, we've identified areas where Chimps have greater numbers of mutations than humans do...primarily due to the absence of telomeric regions due to a chromosomal fusion in our genome. Of course, I'm looking forward to when the Neanderthal sequence is coded to see what information we get from that, mainly due to Neanderthals having essentially the same size brain as humans.




posted on May, 9 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

What line?

Second line.

Mod Edit: Adding "second line" doesn't make it any less of a 1-liner.
edit on 10-5-2011 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


Exactly.

Second line.

Continued discussion: Creationists tend to skim over these missing links, or they try to brush them off as frauds or some other misrepresentation, but we're clearly apes. We're in the family "Hominidae"...along with chimps.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


Some of my best friends are apes...

Third line.

Mod Edit: Adding "Third line" doesn't make it any less of a 1-liner.
edit on 10-5-2011 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I draw the line where the ape remains narturally aware of its surroundings and other animales as well. And where man has awarness of its surroundings but blocked from its natural connections. Forgetting his relation to nature becomming natures ruller.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I'd say Homo Habilis, the use of "advanced" tools gave the homo habilis an incredible advantage over other apes that lived in the same era, IMO this is the point when whe changed from apes to humans



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by TheLieWeLive
 


And frankly, if there was evidence of genetic tampering then we would have found it in the human genome project.


Alien Genes Found in Human DNA

Have you heard of google?



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Thundersmurf
 


Have you heard of Hypothesis? Because a scientist says he thinks something doesn't make it so. A small team following the lead of a professor doesnt make scientific fact. The repeated testing and finding of results that correlate to each other is what makes a hypothesis more into the realm of fact. Theres been well respected scientists that have believed something in a theory only to be proven wrong.

I think its safe to say that said scientist jumped to a personal conclusion without any facts to back up his theory or, someone misinterpreted the word alien to mean ET.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I drawled the line when I found out that it’s no way in the world that man can exist with its ancestors in this date and time at the same time looking at each other at the zoo.



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by Thundersmurf
Alien Genes Found in Human DNA

Have you heard of google?

Have you heard of "debunked"? Do a little more research on your "sources". If you go to the source used for the article you're citing, which was conveniently linked in the article you linked, you'd see that these comments were attributed to a Dr. Sam Chang. Good luck finding a Dr. Sam Chang associated with the human genome project. In fact, good luck finding any Chang associated with the human genome project other than one Violet Chang. And she never issued a report that said anything like that. Congrats on linking an almost five year old hoax and then being condescending about it.
edit on 9/5/2011 by iterationzero because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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Apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes.
Humans have 23 pairs.
Where on the list above does this occur? Which have 23 pairs of chromosomes?



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Ok, so you're going to post an 8 minute video and I have to reply to all of that? I'm sorry, but how does HAR1 provide evidence against evolution?

There is nothing against accelerated regional mutation in the modern evolutionary synthesis. Hell, we've identified areas where Chimps have greater numbers of mutations than humans do...primarily due to the absence of telomeric regions due to a chromosomal fusion in our genome. Of course, I'm looking forward to when the Neanderthal sequence is coded to see what information we get from that, mainly due to Neanderthals having essentially the same size brain as humans.


This is a first. Sorry the information is on an 8 minute video. I searched for a shorter one but if you put this one on fast forward I can't help think you would still get the jist of it.

There has been no missing links and no real transitional skeletons. Chimps, apes and humans all share a common ancestor. Many species remained unchanged for millions of years. In a sudden burst of evolutionary thrust so unnatural as to be impossible, suddenly we see 18 base pair mutations that divide us from the chimps. And all 18 mutations must occur at exactly the right place to produce the Har 1 gene and for it to function.
This is the case for design and not evolution. Where are the transitional skeletons? They should be everywhere.
Any deviation is called a single nucleotide polymorphism which has never been identified in humans.
Also known also as the "human gene" the Har 1 Gene is 118 base pairs long and is what draws the line between humans and chimps. I think this was your topic.
Chances of 18 base pairs to mutate at the same place at the same time are impossible. Chances for evolution to cause that type and many consecutive mutations are nil especially gauging by evolutions rate of progress up until then.

Molecular data, Common Descent, DNA, and the I Ching The following include a number of related papers and discussions with many additional links, podcasts, videos and references for you to check if you are genuinely interested and not simply promoting your own "pet" theory without accepting science that might refute it. Have to say I'd have bet it all on evolution myself but these papers are suggesting that is all but impossible.. pul.se...

www.thetaobums.com.../topic/18060-molecular-data-common-descent-dna-and-the-i-ching/
Examples of species that did not change for 100 million years-www.youtube.com...


Forty-nine regions, which the team called human accelerated regions (HARs), rose to the top of the list. Surprisingly, only two of these regions code for proteins. The majority of the regions tend to be located near genes that are involved in regulating the function of genes. Furthermore, 12 of the regions are adjacent to genes involved in the development of the brain. The Nature paper looks in depth at the region that has undergone the most change in the human lineage, which the researchers called HAR1 (for human accelerated region 1). Only two of the region's 118 bases changed in the 310 million years separating the evolutionary lineages of the chicken and the chimp. Incredibly, since the human lineage separated from that of the chimp, 18 of the 118 nucleotides have changed. This region “stood out,” said Pollard. www.hhmi.org...

Diversity of microRNAs in human and chimpanzee brain

We used massively parallel sequencing to compare the microRNA (miRNA) content of human and chimpanzee brains, and we identified 447 new miRNA genes. Many of the new miRNAs are not conserved beyond primates, indicating their recent origin, and some miRNAs seem species specific, whereas others are expanded in one species through duplication events. These data suggest that evolution of miRNAs is an ongoing process and that along with ancient, highly conserved miRNAs, there are a number of emerging miRNAs.www.nature.com...


Neanderthal DNA lives on ... in some of us

The first rough draft of the Neanderthals' genome suggests that they interbred with our own species - but only enough to leave a tiny mark on the genetic code of humans from outside Africa. "The Neanderthals are not totally extinct," said Svante Pääbo, a geneticist at Germany's Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. "In some of us they live on, a little bit."...
Humans vs. Neanderthals
Decoding the genome was only part of the job. Comparing that genome with our own genetic code was just as tricky. Neanderthals and the human species are thought to have diverged only 500,000 years ago, which means the two species are close cousins in anthropological terms. In fact, if you compared a particular area of the Neanderthal genome with the corresponding genetic code in a single modern human, there's a chance you'd find more similarities than you'd see between two modern humans.
cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com...


Scientists close to cracking Neanderthal DNA code

Scientists are on course for cracking the genetic code of our extinct cousins, the Neanderthals, by the end of this year in research that already suggests they were eradicated by our ancestors...
The notion that Neandertals and humans may have "mixed" is still a matter of some controversy.
But analysis of the new genetic sequence confirms that the mitochondria of Neanderthal's falls outside the variation found in humans today, offering no evidence of interbreeding, although it remains a possibility.

www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Thundersmurf
 


Alien Genes Found in Human DNA

Have you heard of google?

Have you ever heard of the Google Bovine Excrement Filter, which prevents your search from returning results that are deliberate hoaxes, crackpot fantasies and religious lies?

No, neither have I, and neither has anybody else.

But some of us have our own bovine excrement filters, which prevent us from taking some search results seriously.

Cultivate one yourself. And some respect, too, while you’re at it, for people who’ve been doing this a lot longer than you have.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by newcovenant
 
Sequences of non-coded DNA near transcription factors typically act as gene regulators, simply by being there. (Its easier to translate every few letters rather than every single one, so you can check yourself.)

If the proteins generated from the region that surrounds the HARs contributes differentially to reproductive fitness, there will be accelerated evolution, because those are the people reproducing the most. Fast evolving regions are common, and invoke no need of alien manipulation.

I suggest reading that actual academic paper rather than some pseudo-scientific interpretation

www.plosgenetics.org...



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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I'm not sure if the question "Are humans and chimps related" is even debatable at this point, it's almost a given.
However I think the real question is "What separates me from you?". Why is we look the same and sound the same but I can still never prove that you see things the same as I do.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


From what I understand of it the line is kind of arbitrary, our classification system is far from objective. In reality there's no moment in evolutionary history that we can point to when ape became man without drawing everyone's opinion. I honestly don't think the question is one that can ever be objectively settled. Of course it also depends on how you define ape and how you define human, personally I think the two overlap, we are apes still in my opinion - which is the problem - it's currently too opinion based of a topic.

Of course the continuous debate just gives Creationists something more to point at when they want to pretend Evolution is a "theory in crisis"



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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Mod Edit: Do not simply post videos with no comment/argument/opinion!
edit on 10-5-2011 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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My take on the question (without reading all the posts) New species of everything are being found everyday. If god is the creator couldn't he make beings to evolve themselves. The bible says god created man and the bible was written by man so we could find some bias there, but couldn't god have created a different but similar being to evolve into man, say a monkey. As humans we evolve all the time so why not. Heck couldn't he have created primordial ooze that changed into this then that and on and on. I am not sold on any one theory, I see gray areas in everything and where there is gray there is a blend.



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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Humans technically are apes. We are members of the Great Ape family.


Humans, known taxonomically as Homo sapiens[3][4] (Latin for "wise man" or "knowing man"),[5] are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family.


Human




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