What do you like about Badnarik?

Originally posted by 27jd
We are used to a standard of living that must be supported financially, and I support reform, but realistic reform.

I still don't understand what you think is so unrealistic about the libertarian reform. We support lower taxes, more freedom, less government regulation, smaller government, and true dedication to fair economic rights and civil liberties, no empty promises. I would just like you to explain why think it's bogus..

When I was younger, in my drug days as you would call it, the LP had a booth set up on Mill ave. in Tempe with a big sign stating "Sign up now to legalize marijuana!" And everybody who signed was registered to vote as Libertarian, theres your proof, take it under advisement or dont, I dont care.

I'm not going to agree to the way they manipulated those kids. although I do agree that personal choices should be just that personal choices without government intruding on your freedoms, I do think that the way they went about it was wrong. I know if that was me trying to get people to join I wouldn't put up a banner saying legalize marijuana, although I would put up a sign that read somewhere along the lines of freedom of choice is just that, free speech, legalization of marijuana, more freedom, ect, but it all boils down to personal responsibility, i don't believe those kids cared too much about personal responsibility, many don't at that age.

My training cycle is 2 days on 1 day off, cardio warm-up before and cool-down after heavy lifting. If youre trying to get stacked you will probably need to supplement some kind of testosterone pre-cursor, to build muscle. But I dont know what kind of competition you wish to compete in. I wish I had the time and money to compete pro, but I enjoy it has a hobby. I havent missed a workout in 2 yrs. Maybe Im kinda obsessive, but thats off point.

You probably are, but you are also probably health aware, i'm ocd when it comes to working out, I fear getting fat, it's on my moms side, and my grandpa had five heart attacks and three bypass surgeries, so i'm alittle health concious. I'll probably need some kind of testosterone pre-cursor in the future, but right now i'm trying to go au natrelle.

I never said you did, Im just pointing out to you that it has, obviously, or you wouldn't be at the computer dissenting against it. You would probably live under a dictatorship that would crush any opposition like yourself. You'd probably be in prison at best.

Another reason why i'm not voting Bush is because the prison rate has climbed to 130,000 to 3/4 of a million people in 3 years. I bet half of those people shouldn't even be there. Kerry is also no good at this, he proved he doesn't care about what people think unless he locks them up in a cage, ie/ the free speech zone they had at the dnc in boston...
That spoke more volumes then his speech did. Actions speak louder then words, the saying still sticks.

Whatever.

Give me some numbers, support your fastest growing theory.

Ok, More fun

The Libertarian Party says its presidential ticket received 382,892 popular votes in 2000. It also notes it ran 1,430 candidates in 2000, more than twice as many as all the other third parties combined.

"We fielded candidates for 255 of the 435 seats in the U.S. House, as well as 25 of the 33 Senate seats up for election, making the Libertarian Party the first third party in 80 years to contest a majority of the seats in Congress," the Libertarians' Web site says.

I was actually looking at electoral vote numbers, thats where the 1% came from, not population support percentage, I dont know that, thats why I asked above.

Ok.

The bat# insanity diagnosis was just my own,

That's what I thought.

but I'm not a doctor,

no #.

maybe he should get that checked out though, it could be contagious, maybe you attended one of his speeches,

Not yet, but I hope to one day, if it is contagious I have no problem catching it, I would rather catch that then catch the democratic fevor that makes excuses for treasonous sell outs and deems it ok because their democrats too. puke.

just kidding.

I know, you got me smiling.

Hope there was no excessive quoting here.

Nope, you did good.

Maybe Im just afraid to take chances, because of my child. If it werent for him, I would probably be right on board with you. Its just that, although fast growing as you proved to me, theres no chance of them winning this year, and I really want Bush out, so I will vote for the only person with a chance to get him out. Ill feel real stupid if he's worse, but it would be hard
to be worse than Bush. Maybe next election, the LP candidate will be better, America will have progressed, and I will vote LP then, but this year, I gotta help get Bush out. But it's been a spirited debate we've had.

Originally posted by 27jd
Maybe Im just afraid to take chances, because of my child. If it werent for him, I would probably be right on board with you.

It's not that your afraid your just brainwashed... It's ok lot's of people are, nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them, especially when the democrats promise to take care of everybody and everything and promise a future full of wonderful things, the problem the foolish man seeks happiness in the distance; the wise grows it under his feet.

Its just that, although fast growing as you proved to me, theres no chance of them winning this year, and I really want Bush out, so I will vote for the only person with a chance to get him out.

I agree fully, but I'm not about to give up what I believe in to get one aholes out of office just to put another in. I mean, I don't even know HOW he plans to do what he's promised! I hear all these wonderful promises and plans but not once has he delved deeper then, and thats what I need. Plus one minute he's one thing to somebody the next he turns around says he's all about the other thing. What mainstream would call a flip flop. George bush is no prize either, thats way I say both are rotten apples imo.

Ill feel real stupid if he's worse, but it would be hard to be worse than Bush.

To me, both sides have gone to the extremes, I see it as polarization, the only party I believe can maintain a medium is lp.

Maybe next election, the LP candidate will be better, America will have progressed, and I will vote LP then, but this year, I gotta help get Bush out. But it's been a spirited debate we've had.

I hope maybe next election you do that, America can only get better, with the left and right in continued power the two extremes will polarize and our country will become more divided, in a way this is good for the lp because they will gain more members and support and people will hopefully realise it's the wise decision to make, we need to stand united,the lp does't pull people apart, if you read more into it the party would bring people together, and thats what makes this country great. I too want Bush out, badly, but again, i'm not about to sacrifice my principals on some other scum bag who i don't trust. He already lost his trust with his comrades, I don't see how he could maintain the countries. All the treasonous things he's done, if this were back in the day he would of got his dick cut off. times change, too bad.

[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]

I hope maybe next election you do that, America can only get better, with the left and right in continued power the two extremes will polarize and our country will become more divided, in a way this is good for the lp because they will gain more members and support and people will hopefully realise it's the wise decision to make, we need to stand united,the lp does't pull people apart, if you read more into it the party would bring people together, and thats what makes this country great. I too want Bush out, badly, but again, i'm not about to sacrifice my principals on some other scum bag who i don't trust. He already lost his trust with his comrades, I don't see how he could maintain the countries. All the treasonous things he's done, if this were back in the day he would of got his dick cut off. times change, too bad.

Yeah, the division in this country is pretty sad. These days it almost seems a bad thing to be an American, we're divided in so many different ways internally, as well as resented at best, hated at worst, in rest of the world. Probably because we make up 6% of the population, use up 40% of the worlds resources, and produce 25% of the worlds trash. I agree things need to change, but evolution is slow, hopefully it will speed up a bit though, right? My concern is that overnight change would be extremely harmful, things need to be tested in all aspects of our society, to make sure the plan will work, no matter how good it sounds or looks on paper, there may be factors unseen that could bring chaos, thats my fear. But dont think I'm brainwashed, that would be incorrect, I'm well aware the government (both parties) are scum, but I want to see an alternative way of governing tested first, thats all.


[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by 27jd

Yeah, the division in this country is pretty sad. These days it almost seems a bad thing to be an American, we're divided in so many different ways internally, as well as resented at best, hated at worst, in rest of the world. Probably because we make up 6% of the population, use up 40% of the worlds resources, and produce 25% of the worlds trash.

And don't forget we have like 228 million people in this country, but don't forget millions of these people are from countries around the world who came here to adopt a better way of life. This is a melting pot, it's not just made up of white people who were born here and will die here. It's a mixture of many cultures, many ethnicities, many colors, and many languages. People easily forget this country has people from all around the world using 40% of the world's resources and 25% of the trash. It truly is a melting pot.

I agree things need to change, but evolution is slow, hopefully it will speed up a bit though, right?

Yes it needs to speed up but as long as you have people in office who don't live in the real world like you and me and don't see how people have to live with the laws they set forth, it won't evolve. There is always an agenda behind their decision making, and alot of times it's based off monetary gain.
The political arena is a joke. It's like people sign up for politics because they want to get on the gravy train and hold some real power of people in their lives. That's not reality. Reality is waking up in the morning knowing you have the world at your tail and you don't have to worry about any government legislation putting red tape over certain things. Reality is taking care of you, your family, and community, having financial responsibility where the government doesn't get involved. Having a say in where your going to put your tax dollars not the government and then never knowing where that money is truly going. Reality is waking up in the morning knowing that you don't have to worry about your safety and others because the countries leaders isn't sticking their noses where it doesn't belong, and in this case it's the bush corporation and their oil conglomerate.

My concern is that overnight change would be extremely harmful, things need to be tested in all aspects of our society, to make sure the plan will work, no matter how good it sounds or looks on paper, there may be factors unseen that could bring chaos, thats my fear.

I don't think i've ever seen the lp state anywhere that their would be overnight change, indeed that would be harmful, you can't shock a nation and expect it adhere to the new principles just like that. It's a steady operation that needs to be put in place slowly that people can adjust without worrying. I'd like to know what kind of factors are in your head that bring you fear for the future. I fear for the future if kerry or bush get in power because both sides wants to take care of you and want to dictate to you how to run your life because they see it as the "better" way, that's not freedom, I don't want to live by some retard's rules who hasn't lived in the real world at any point in his life. Their administrations they've put together are scary, meaning the people they've appointed to their cabinet. Both sides scare me, instead of focusing on just one person's politics, we need to know that there are people working with him in the shadows who want favors done, who want certain things a certain way, and that us people are the ones who are going to have to live in their world, and if it's a stinky decision we're the ones who are going to have to live in the #.

But dont think I'm brainwashed, that would be incorrect, I'm well aware the government (both parties) are scum, but I want to see an alternative way of governing tested first, thats all.

Ok, your not brainwashed just mislead by lies and pretty pictures that have been painted for you. I know you know both parties are scum, but I also think your smart enough to know the consequences of voting for either party, you voted lp before, and I think you've been fed abunch of bs by kerry co to get him into office. Everybody up high wants favors done for them, everybody is willing to make those favors come true because they've been slid a # load of money. This isn't what politics should be about and thats why i'm not voting for either of them, I want my kid (if I had a kid) to grow up in a world where they are trusted to make their own decisions not have some guy who sees himself as a prince tell him/her how it's going to be and how much they need to pay because mr prince put the country in billion $ worth of debt.




[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]

Also here is a tidbit of a state that is thriving off of these principles, it's the closest thing to what the lp stands for.

New Hampshire was the state chosen by signed FSP participants in a vote that took place in August and September 2003. It was chosen because it has the lowest state and local tax burden in the continental U.S., the second-lowest level of dependence on federal spending in the U.S., a citizen legislature where state house representatives have not raised their $100 per year salary since 1889, the lowest crime levels in the U.S., a dynamic economy with plenty of jobs and investment, and a culture of individual responsibility indicated by, for example, a lack of seatbelt and helmet requirements for adults.

Less Government Dependancy/Intervention

[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by TrueLies

And don't forget we have like 228 million people in this country, but don't forget millions of these people are from countries around the world who came here to adopt a better way of life. This is a melting pot, it's not just made up of white people who were born here and will die here. It's a mixture of many cultures, many ethnicities, many colors, and many languages. People easily forget this country has people from all around the world using 40% of the world's resources and 25% of the trash. It truly is a melting pot.

I agree fully, I have made that point on other threads to those who spew hatred for America and that we are against the world, I stated we ARE the world, and for the very reason you stated.

Yes it needs to speed up but as long as you have people in office who don't live in the real world like you and me and don't see how people have to live with the laws they set forth, it won't evolve. There is always an agenda behind their decision making, and alot of times it's based off monetary gain.
The political arena is a joke. It's like people sign up for politics because they want to get on the gravy train and hold some real power of people in their lives. That's not reality. Reality is waking up in the morning knowing you have the world at your tail and you don't have to worry about any government legislation putting red tape over certain things. Reality is taking care of you, your family, and community, having financial responsibility where the government doesn't get involved. Having a say in where your going to put your tax dollars not the government and then never knowing where that money is truly going. Reality is waking up in the morning knowing that you don't have to worry about your safety and others because the countries leaders isn't sticking their noses where it doesn't belong, and in this case it's the bush corporation and their oil conglomerate.

I think that may be unfair to say people sign up to hold power over us, I believe some may have had good intentions initially, but were corrupted by the palm greasing special interests that really run things, that bowl right over those who do not jump in there pockets, Bush himself is not in power, its the oil conglomerate, tobacco industry, etc. that are truly in power.

I don't think i've ever seen the lp state anywhere that their would be overnight change, indeed that would be harmful, you can't shock a nation and expect it adhere to the new principles just like that. It's a steady operation that needs to be put in place slowly that people can adjust without worrying. I'd like to know what kind of factors are in your head that bring you fear for the future. I fear for the future if kerry or bush get in power because both sides wants to take care of you and want to dictate to you how to run your life because they see it as the "better" way, that's not freedom, I don't want to live by some retard's rules who hasn't lived in the real world at any point in his life. Their administrations they've put together are scary, meaning the people they've appointed to their cabinet. Both sides scare me, instead of focusing on just one person's politics, we need to know that there are people working with him in the shadows who want favors done, who want certain things a certain way, and that us people are the ones who are going to have to live in their world, and if it's a stinky decision we're the ones who are going to have to live in the #. .

The main factor that causes my fear of sudden change is economic upheaval, I fear becoming Russia, standing in line for 3 days to get stale bread. Lack of health care. Crime running rampant. Not that any of this would happen for sure, but like you said a shock to the system could be very bad. Not to mention, at this point today, it would take a civilian uprising to unseat the two parties, even if we all voted third party, they would find some legal way to override it. And a civilian uprising would cause the above stated situations in the best case, worst case the government unleashes some sort of biological weapon or something to put us down. And we both know the scumbags are probably not above that. So in a way, it doesnt really matter if we like them or not, they have us at gunpoint, we have to figure out a way to change that, and that is why it will take time.

Ok, your not brainwashed just mislead by lies and pretty pictures that have been painted for you. I know you know both parties are scum, but I also think your smart enough to know the consequences of voting for either party, you voted lp before, and I think you've been fed abunch of bs by kerry co to get him into office. Everybody up high wants favors done for them, everybody is willing to make those favors come true because they've been slid a # load of money. This isn't what politics should be about and thats why i'm not voting for either of them, I want my kid (if I had a kid) to grow up in a world where they are trusted to make their own decisions not have some guy who sees himself as a prince tell him/her how it's going to be and how much they need to pay because mr prince put the country in billion $ worth of debt. .

I'm not misled either, I don't believe the lies from either side, and I don't think their picture is all that pretty. We really only disagree on the path we should take to obtain the change we want. To me step one is getting Bush out of office, this will at least remove the fanatic religious influence over our lives. That will open the door to stem cell research, allow women to choose what they do with their bodies, and let gay's live their lives as they wish without being viewed as an abomination just to name a few changes that can be made THIS election. And to vote in protest is wasting a chance to achieve change at these levels, right now. Next step will be for people like you and me to seek out those who have open minds and steer them in the right direction, you are already doing so, but you skipped step one. Once enough people can be educated and demand change, not by force, but by not spending money on products sold by these companies who run things behind the scenes, that will force them to hear us. But as long as we fill our gas tanks, buy cigarettes (remember they banned ephedra because a couple people had it in their system when they died, but cigarettes remain legal, any doubt the tobacco companies run things?) buy alcohol, etc. these companies will continue to run our lives behind the scenes, thats why I'm skeptical that a new party will be any different, we have no real reason to believe they won't other than what they say they stand for, and what they say they will do. And maybe the LP truly has good intentions at this point, but the real powers that be would crush them if they thought they were any kind of threat. So you see, the answer may not just be in a new political party, I think the government is just the "middle man", the answer is in the people and where we put our money, in that respect, we can put them at gunpoint too, the people just don't know they have a gun.

[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]

[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]