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What do you like about Badnarik?

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posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by donguillermo

3. The party he represents will never be anything more than a lunatic fringe, as exemplified by many of the posters in this thread.



This lunitic fringe is the third largest and fastest growing party in America. We believe in freedom and self reliance, you know the things another lunitic fringe, our founding fathers, believed in. We dont need to be the slaves of big government.

And we dont believe in name calling like third graders




posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 07:19 PM
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Hopefully the lunatic fringe isn't growing too quickly, here's a little bit of info about the man you aspire to lead this country:

By now, most libertarians know that the Libertarian Party chose as its presidential nominee Michael Badnarik, the darkest of dark horses, and a figure hardly known within the party and virtually unknown to non-LP libertarians. Badnarik is a self-taught constitutional scholar whose views were scarcely known to most LP members and delegates prior to the nomination.

Coming into the convention, the favorite for the nomination was Gary Nolan, a talk-radio personality who had raised the most money, won all five LP primaries, and put together a professional campaign staff. Nolan proposed the same electoral strategy that the LP candidate had employed in the previous two elections: he'd try to appeal primarily to conservatives, reaching out to them on talk radio.

Badnarik was different. He had embarked on a quixotic quest, traveling from state to state in a 1999 Kia Sephia, visiting state party conventions, speaking wherever he could, staying in the guest rooms of supporters whenever he could arrange it, hitting cheap motels when he couldn't. In late 2003, he interrupted his campaign to take a job in telemarketing to earn some much needed cash.

Badnarik believes that the federal income tax has no legal authority and that people are justified in refusing to file a tax return until such time as the IRS provides them with an explanation of its authority to collect the tax. He hadn't filed income tax returns for several years. He moved from California to Texas because of Texas' more liberal gun laws, but he refused to obtain a Texas driver's license because the state requires drivers to provide their fingerprints and Social Security numbers. He has been ticketed several times for driving without a license; sometimes he has gotten off for various technical legal reasons, but on three occasions he has been convicted and paid a fine. He also refused to use postal ZIP codes, seeing them as "federal territories."

www.libertypost.org...

Yeah, this guy would make a great president, I wonder what a "Don't blame me I voted for Kerry" bumper sticker would look like in Chinese!



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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IF YOU WERE TO LOOK UP CONGRESS AND PAST PRESIDENTIAL PERSONS YOU WOULD SEE MANY OF THEM HAVE CRIMINAL RECORDS.

The difference is, many of these former criminals got off scott free...

HILLARY CLINTON.............WHITEWATER, remember when she was attorny general for the state of Arkansas? Remember her opening an account and making over 100,000 in a short year from insider trading???

I'm sure you wouldn't like the reminder of Chapaquitick Ted??
He could of been charged with homocide, but got off scott free.

Same goes with Billy Clinton, a sexual predator, ask Paula Jones about the incident where he stuck his dick in her face and tried to get her to suck it.
Would you like me to bring up other women?

John Kerry: A war criminal, a warm criminal who confesses to participating in war crimes.

If you want me to continue going down the list just let me know.

ON that note, I think i'll stop for now, as you can clearly see that Badnarik's brushes with the law are pretty juvenile compared to these arses.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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Cough cough, I think I can supply some good reads... Badnarik is a darling compared to these crooks...


On Hillary Clinton and Billy Bob
The only president ever impeached on grounds of personal malfeasance
- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*
- Most number of cabinet officials to come under criminal investigation
- Most number of witnesses to flee country or refuse to testify
- Most number of witnesses to die suddenly
- First president sued for sexual harassment.
- First president accused of rape.
- First first lady to come under criminal investigation
- Largest criminal plea agreement in an illegal campaign contribution case
- First president to establish a legal defense fund.
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
- Greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions from abroad

prorev.com...


Here's a legacy to be proud of



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 07:56 PM
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Its not just his brushes with the law, he's bat$hit insane also, are you even familiar with what his policies will be on the important issues today? Or are you just some malcontent who would vote for Snoopy just to protest the "man". And you can go down the line with every politician's dirty laundry all day long, most of it is probably fabricated or at least exagerated with a little help from the opposing political parties. So list away. You painted a very gross picture with Bill Clinton, though. But I think Paula Jones's nose wouldve gotten in the way, before her nose job she paid for with money she probably recieved writing books and doing interviews about the "alleged" dick in the face incident. But I'm sure you were there so I won't bother arguing the legitamacy of it. Point is all governments are corrupt, if your man is elected, thankfully he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, he will be the same, only insane. And he will only be in power for a little while, until the USA goes broke and collapses. Good luck hippies.

Wait, breaking news, this just in........the Clinton's are NOT running for president this year. As for Kerry's war crimes, please, shed some light on that for me. I guess you must of done a couple of tours in Nam yourself, to have the right to sit at your computer and analyze the way a kid behaves when he's thrown into hell, watching his buddies get shredded. I certainly dont have that right. You must.




[edit on 4-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 09:33 PM
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Is it really so strange that he would refuse to apply for a drivers licence? After all, we are a free people and do not need internal passports to move about the country.

As far as not wanting to provid his SSN, it was gauranteed that the SSN would never become an I.D. number when the social security program was pushed on the people. Under federal law, you cannot be required to give your SSN to anyone unless it is on a tax form or to an employer. He has every legal and moral right not to give this number out.

The fingerprint is a likeness of a part of ones own body, and as such a personal thing. We all have a right not to subject our bodies to anything we don't want to.

As far as the tax issue goes, that would take all night to defend, but let me leave you with this: when the income tax was pushed on us not even 100 years ago, we were assured it would never reach more than "one or two percent."



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:23 PM
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OK Dharma, maybe you should sit down with Gregg and he can explain to you the need for law and order.


Originally posted by cavscout
Is it really so strange that he would refuse to apply for a drivers licence? After all, we are a free people and do not need internal passports to move about the country.


Um, wrong. We are free but we do need "internal passports" to operate a motor vehicle, and to identify ourselves, its the law and their are many reasons other than government control behind it. And until your knight in shining armor drives up in his Kia (without a license) and takes the White House, he too must obey the law until he changes it.



As far as not wanting to provid his SSN, it was gauranteed that the SSN would never become an I.D. number when the social security program was pushed on the people. Under federal law, you cannot be required to give your SSN to anyone unless it is on a tax form or to an employer. He has every legal and moral right not to give this number out.


When was that guaranteed? Where is that written? I'm just curious because I've never heard that. And if it's just a meaningless government ID number why would he not give it out? Because he's paranoid, and like I said bat$hit insane. It's not like some stranger was calling him on the phone asking him for it.



The fingerprint is a likeness of a part of ones own body, and as such a personal thing. We all have a right not to subject our bodies to anything we don't want to.


Well then, better stop letting people take your picture, and better make sure you pick up every hair that falls off your body, because your picture and your DNA are personal, don't want that info to fall into the wrong hands against your will. Like I said, paranoid.



As far as the tax issue goes, that would take all night to defend, but let me leave you with this: when the income tax was pushed on us not even 100 years ago, we were assured it would never reach more than "one or two percent."


Gee, it seems things are a bit different now than 100 years ago now doesnt it? We were a small country then, now we make up only 6% of the worlds population, but consume 40% of its resources. And we kinda need an army, and police, and emergency medical services for our population, and roads, and lots and lots of things you use every day and take for granted, but wouldnt have if we only paid "one or two percent." Your free spirited hippie utopia would be enchanting for a couple days, then you would find out that there are alot of not so wavy gravy people who would take advantage of there being no laws, no regulations, the country would go broke, if the Chinese (or some other foreign power, pick one) didnt seize their opportunity, they would be stupid not to, and take over the lawless no-mans land youve created. Sounds great doesn't it? Like I said before, I wonder what a "Dont blame me I voted for Kerry" bumper sticker would look like in Chinese. No wonder this party will never go anywhere. I'm all for change to, but reasonable change.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Its not just his brushes with the law, he's bat$hit insane also


I'd like to know where you get this information from. Trying to taint one's political affiliation with juvenile presuppositions and opinions is pretty immature. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.



are you even familiar with what his policies will be on the important issues today? Or are you just some malcontent who would vote for Snoopy just to protest the "man".



No, i'm like the other mindless mouthbreathers who jump in the boat named "anybody but bush" I try not to educate myself on the important issues because i'm apathetic and malcontent, I believe if snoopy was running I would vote for him just to protest the "man", I also say dude, and man alot and smoke a # load of pot, I want to be different so I don't vote for bush or kerry. Even though I think Kerry is so cool with his catch phrases like " help is on the way" I don't know, I just can't do it. And Bush, damn, he's so cool, with his catch phrase like " turning the corner" and his affiliation to skull and bones and his occult dances at bohemien grove, you know, i'd like to vote for him, but again like you said i'm malcontent and gotta protest the man.


You painted a very gross picture with Bill Clinton, though. But I think Paula Jones's nose wouldve gotten in the way, before her nose job she paid for with money she probably recieved writing books and doing interviews about the "alleged" dick in the face incident. But I'm sure you were there so I won't bother arguing the legitamacy of it.


Nah, i'll just go along with what you say because apparantly YOU were there and anybody who goes against Clinton is full of # no matter how long the lists are of people making allegations. Clinton's the man, and you of all people know that since you hung out with him everyday and probably partied with a bunch of mattress backs. He couldn't be lying even though Paula jones described his crooked penis to a tee. So i'll just go along with you because your the expert.



Point is all governments are corrupt, if your man is elected, thankfully he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, he will be the same, only insane.
And he will only be in power for a little while, until the USA goes broke and collapses. Good luck hippies.


I see, your ideal candidate is somebody that is a communist sympathizer who admits to participating in war crimes, commits treason but never gets charged for it, calls all his mates baby killers and goes around telling everybody how horrible they are so they have to hide for 15 years in fear for their lives. I'm sorry I didn't know you sympathized with a gold digging sell out who tries to be everything to everyone. I'm sorry. I guess when Kerry gets in and raises taxes that will stimulate the economy and everybody will be rich because he has programs for everybody and it will be just like #ing christmas everyday! woohoo! Hook me up! I want a private jet and a viper, you think he could deliver?? Cuz god knows after all those tax hikes I sure as hell won't be able to afford it.


As for Kerry's war crimes, please, shed some light on that for me. I guess you must of done a couple of tours in Nam yourself, to have the right to sit at your computer and analyze the way a kid behaves when he's thrown into hell, watching his buddies get shredded. I certainly dont have that right. You must.


Why don't you go listen to Kerry's confession on war crimes yourself if you really have had your head stuck in the sand to not know this by now. Google it he was on meet the press... It's all over the net...
As for tours of Nam, I can't say that I have, but I do know that Kerry indeed did quite a few tours of nam, in fact, if you ask him he will tell you he worked on a navy ship because he didn't want to be a grunt, the safest spot for him to be on was a navy ship.. Ask him about cruising the vietnam rivers and while your at it ask him about his self inflicted wounds. And I wouldn't make the excuse about a kid behaving the way he did because he was thrown into a hell. First, he signed himself up, and he made sure he wouldn't be near any so called "hellish" situations. I do know abit about PTSD and he sure as hell doesn't have it, but if I could do some analysis on his grey matter I would probably say he is a narcissistic ahole who will stomp over anybody to get what he wants. He sold this country out, he sold his military mates out, and he'd sell us out if he gets the chance. I'm sorry but I don't sympathise with aholes nor make excuses for them, so before you try and pass any of your horse# over on me i'd come up with better excuses and arguments then the ones you just put forward. And still i'll be waiting for your psychiatric assessment you found or maybe even diagnosed badnarik with yourself.
I'll be here you can u2u me the documents if you don't want to share his medical records in public, because after all they are a private thing and really nobody else's business. And if you did personally diagnose him with the bat# insanity syndrome I hope you got him on some good anti-psychotics, hopefully more then 50mgs by the way you described him out to me.




[edit on 4-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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Um, wrong. We are free but we do need "internal passports" to operate a motor vehicle, and to identify ourselves, its the law and their are many reasons other than government control behind it. And until your knight in shining armor drives up in his Kia (without a license) and takes the White House, he too must obey the law until he changes it.


Why don't tell that to Hillary and Bill, apparantly they didn't think the law applied to them in many of their fradulent criminal cases, same goes with Kerry and Kennedy.
Or is that different? What petty excuses do you have for the criminal party?



When was that guaranteed? Where is that written? I'm just curious because I've never heard that. And if it's just a meaningless government ID number why would he not give it out? Because he's paranoid, and like I said bat$hit insane. It's not like some stranger was calling him on the phone asking him for it.


I'd like to know how you think this makes him insane? Obviously to you exercising your right or protesting against what you think is WRONG, automatically makes you insane... I'm going to say your logic is pretty twisted if you actually think somebody like Badnarik is insane and Hillary,Bill, Kennedy, and Kerry are SANE, of ALL people... do you eat little children for breakfast?



Well then, better stop letting people take your picture, and better make sure you pick up every hair that falls off your body, because your picture and your DNA are personal, don't want that info to fall into the wrong hands against your will. Like I said, paranoid.


There is a clear distinction between BIOMETRICS and non biometrics. A thumbprint is a biometric a picture is not. A retinal scan is a biometric, a picture is not. To many, biometrics is an infringement on your rights and thus have the right to exercise your belief. If you don't agree with it, by all means, protest, it's your right. Making a political statement doesn't make your crazy it's making a point. This country isn't about that and shouldn't become that, he's trying to make a point, if you could delve in a little deeper then the surface. But then again your voting for kerry....Political statements don't count unless your selling the country out.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by 27jd
Its not just his brushes with the law, he's bat$hit insane also


I'd like to know where you get this information from. Trying to taint one's political affiliation with juvenile presuppositions and opinions is pretty immature. Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.



are you even familiar with what his policies will be on the important issues today? Or are you just some malcontent who would vote for Snoopy just to protest the "man".



No, i'm like the other mindless mouthbreathers who jump in the boat named "anybody but bush" I try not to educate myself on the important issues because i'm apathetic and malcontent, I believe if snoopy was running I would vote for him just to protest the "man", I also say dude, and man alot and smoke a # load of pot, I want to be different so I don't vote for bush or kerry. Even though I think Kerry is so cool with his catch phrases like " help is on the way" I don't know, I just can't do it. And Bush, damn, he's so cool, with his catch phrase like " turning the corner" and his affiliation to skull and bones and his occult dances at bohemien grove, you know, i'd like to vote for him, but again like you said i'm malcontent and gotta protest the man.


You painted a very gross picture with Bill Clinton, though. But I think Paula Jones's nose wouldve gotten in the way, before her nose job she paid for with money she probably recieved writing books and doing interviews about the "alleged" dick in the face incident. But I'm sure you were there so I won't bother arguing the legitamacy of it.


Nah, i'll just go along with what you say because apparantly YOU were there and anybody who goes against Clinton is full of # no matter how long the lists are of people making allegations. Clinton's the man, and you of all people know that since you hung out with him everyday and probably partied with a bunch of mattress backs. He couldn't be lying even though Paula jones described his crooked penis to a tee. So i'll just go along with you because your the expert.



Point is all governments are corrupt, if your man is elected, thankfully he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, he will be the same, only insane.
And he will only be in power for a little while, until the USA goes broke and collapses. Good luck hippies.


I see, your ideal candidate is somebody that is a communist sympathizer who admits to participating in war crimes, commits treason but never gets charged for it, calls all his mates baby killers and goes around telling everybody how horrible they are so they have to hide for 15 years in fear for their lives. I'm sorry I didn't know you sympathized with a gold digging sell out who tries to be everything to everyone. I'm sorry. I guess when Kerry gets in and raises taxes that will stimulate the economy and everybody will be rich because he has programs for everybody and it will be just like #ing christmas everyday! woohoo! Hook me up! I want a private jet and a viper, you think he could deliver?? Cuz god knows after all those tax hikes I sure as hell won't be able to afford it.


As for Kerry's war crimes, please, shed some light on that for me. I guess you must of done a couple of tours in Nam yourself, to have the right to sit at your computer and analyze the way a kid behaves when he's thrown into hell, watching his buddies get shredded. I certainly dont have that right. You must.


Why don't you go listen to Kerry's confession on war crimes yourself if you really have had your head stuck in the sand to not know this by now. Google it he was on meet the press... It's all over the net...
As for tours of Nam, I can't say that I have, but I do know that Kerry indeed did quite a few tours of nam, in fact, if you ask him he will tell you he worked on a navy ship because he didn't want to be a grunt, the safest spot for him to be on was a navy ship.. Ask him about cruising the vietnam rivers and while your at it ask him about his self inflicted wounds. And I wouldn't make the excuse about a kid behaving the way he did because he was thrown into a hell. First, he signed himself up, and he made sure he wouldn't be near any so called "hellish" situations. I do know abit about PTSD and he sure as hell doesn't have it, but if I could do some analysis on his grey matter I would probably say he is a narcissistic ahole who will stomp over anybody to get what he wants. He sold this country out, he sold his military mates out, and he'd sell us out if he gets the chance. I'm sorry but I don't sympathise with aholes nor make excuses for them, so before you try and pass any of your horse# over on me i'd come up with better excuses and arguments then the ones you just put forward. And still i'll be waiting for your psychiatric assessment you found or maybe even diagnosed badnarik with yourself.
I'll be here you can u2u me the documents if you don't want to share his medical records in public, because after all they are a private thing and really nobody else's business. And if you did personally diagnose him with the bat# insanity syndrome I hope you got him on some good anti-psychotics, hopefully more then 50mgs by the way you described him out to me.




[edit on 4-8-2004 by 27jd]


Gee, I guess I've been put in my place. I'm a new man. I will blindly vote for whoever is not the "man". Thanks for opening my eyes to the promiseland that will be, well I guess we dont know, but it wont be Bush or Kerry right? I'm gonna believe all the BS politics coming from both sides and not vote for either, thats how well their mudslinging works. Kerry is a rich sellout traitor, and Bush is a stupid warmongering cowboy who screwed up the economy. Thank god for Badnarik, hes gonna.........well you still didn't tell me what his plans were for security, healthcare, the economy, or pretty much anything, because you obviously dont know, but I'm sure it will be great. And your post was so intelligent, if you support this man, he must be gold. Yeah right.



posted on Aug, 4 2004 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
OK Dharma, maybe you should sit down with Gregg and he can explain to you the need for law and order.

I'm all for change to, but reasonable change.



Ok, maybe you should also take a seat with gregg so he could explain economics 101 to you. But since your the expert why don't you explain to me how Kerry's wonderful utopian vision is realistic.

Your all for reasonable change but yet I haven't heard what Kerry is actually going to do, meaning PLAN. I don't know his plan.

Many don't know his PLAN, except raise taxes. Everybody is going to be taxed up the ass but it's going to be for the good of everybody, and he's got a program for everything and everybody.

The US is going to celebrate everybody's birthday on the same day, everyday. His vision is so realistic, apparantly you believe it's reasonable. So explain this to me, i'm not quite getting it, my hippie political affiliation is putting a wall of pot smoke up, I can't quite see the vision you see.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Gee, I guess I've been put in my place. I'm a new man. I will blindly vote for whoever is not the "man". Thanks for opening my eyes to the promiseland that will be, well I guess we dont know, but it wont be Bush or Kerry right? I'm gonna believe all the BS politics coming from both sides and not vote for either, thats how well their mudslinging works. Kerry is a rich sellout traitor, and Bush is a stupid warmongering cowboy who screwed up the economy. Thank god for Badnarik, hes gonna.........well you still didn't tell me what his plans were for security, healthcare, the economy, or pretty much anything, because you obviously dont know, but I'm sure it will be great. And your post was so intelligent, if you support this man, he must be gold. Yeah right.


Wow, you remind me so much of my husband, sarcasm with a mixture of belitting an issue really makes you that much more intelligent then everyone else. Did anybody ever tell you that.
First off to reply to the question you never asked, but implied you did, the libertarian parties political stances on social, health, tax, foreign policy, ect can be found at their website, they didn't hire me to be their spokesperson, so if your so inclined to educate yourself on a different perspective, go there, www.lp.org.

If not (which I think not because I know your type , your just on here to insult, slam, debunk, belittle, and pester people with ignorance) don't, but try to find some other way to converse in a more proactive political manner, since this is the political debate thread and not a thread for what your trying to use it for. Also, not to become the thread police or anything, but you should probably edit your post since your excessively quoting which is against the rules of ATS, as set out by the super mods and mods that monitor the board.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:06 AM
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I see nothing here that would make me question the man's sanity. I see what he is trying to do. Looks like a quiet protest to me. You, the gov't, are doing this to the people, I won't let you do it to me. Quite simple really.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:27 AM
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hell if this guy could run for president, i could too.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan
hell if this guy could run for president, i could too.


Is your platform about beer and the three day weekend? I'd vote for you.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by TrueLies

Wow, you remind me so much of my husband, sarcasm with a mixture of belitting an issue really makes you that much more intelligent then everyone else. Did anybody ever tell you that.
First off to reply to the question you never asked, but implied you did, the libertarian parties political stances on social, health, tax, foreign policy, ect can be found at their website, they didn't hire me to be their spokesperson, so if your so inclined to educate yourself on a different perspective, go there, www.lp.org.

If not (which I think not because I know your type , your just on here to insult, slam, debunk, belittle, and pester people with ignorance) don't, but try to find some other way to converse in a more proactive political manner, since this is the political debate thread and not a thread for what your trying to use it for. Also, not to become the thread police or anything, but you should probably edit your post since your excessively quoting which is against the rules of ATS, as set out by the super mods and mods that monitor the board.


No, I'm afraid you don't know me at all. I know the type that you think I am, and you're wrong. I also hate the corruption of the government, their ridiculous laws, and their attempt to intrude in all of our lives. I am 27yrs. old, dropped out of high school (but got my G.E.D, yay...more of my sarcasm) did all kinds of drugs, listened (and still do) to hardcore (industrial, electronic, and metal) music, got immersed in the rave scene (before it died), was part of a electronic band (if you call 2 people a band, but thats all it takes, the machines work for you), and COMPLETELY hated the government, just like you. When I first registered to vote it was Libertarian. Then, I fathered my son, which didn't make me like the government, but made me want real bad for him to have a chance to grow up with the same chances to live his life the way he wants, just like we have. When you see the way some people are living around the world, you can't imagine your child growing up like that, thats what makes me fear a complete upheaval of the system into uncertainty, I want change, but slowly, and reasonably, we need laws, we need police, and we need a strong military. And I REALLY can't stand Bush and his bible-thumping, so I choose to make as much difference as I can and not use my vote for protest. And yes, I do like to get a rise out of people, but its obvious you stand behind your party and thats cool, didn't mean to upset you that much. Really, no sarcasm. And I have lots of Hippie friends. As for Kerry, he's not my idea of the perfect candidate, but I think he's better than Bush. And he did come under fire in Viet Nam, so he couldn't have been kept too safe, so he knows what its like to face death, and I think he will consider that when sending kids to war. I don't think he'll up and leave Iraq, but he will get us out quicker than Bush. And I believe it will lessen the resentment of the world for us to get Bush out. And what I think is insane about Badnarik, is the fact that he is running at all, and if he really believes he can win. He would lose to Nader if the other two fell off the planet. I just don't see the logic in running a campaign and wasting money on a candidate that can at best hope to get 2% of the vote, to waste a vote on a statement. But thats just me.


[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd


I am 27yrs. old, dropped out of high school (but got my G.E.D, yay...more of my sarcasm) did all kinds of drugs, listened (and still do) to hardcore (industrial, electronic, and metal) music, got immersed in the rave scene (before it died), was part of a electronic band (if you call 2 people a band, but thats all it takes, the machines work for you), and COMPLETELY hated the government, just like you.



Haha, Ok, wow, first to let you know I never dropped out of highschool, I never had a child, I dabbled in drugs when I was a teenager but never got immersed in them I never got into the rave scne, or an electronic band, I never hated the government back then because I didn't care! And i'm not a hippie just to let you know since you didn't get my hint of sarcasm in the last few posts. I guess all that of which you desribe to me hints that you were a rebel because you hated government so you deluded your brain and dumbed yourself down to get back at the government??? I'm little confused as to why you are telling me your life story when that shouldn't really have to do with politics. Unless you did all this to get back at the government.. I'm not sure, so you can feel free to explain this any time.



When I first registered to vote it was Libertarian. Then, I fathered my son, which didn't make me like the government, but made me want real bad for him to have a chance to grow up with the same chances to live his life the way he wants, just like we have.



Well, I still don't see how libertarian would make it worse when your comparing bush and kerry and badnarik together. Bush is pretty much going to be enslaving your child in the future because it's going to be on his ass to pay off the national debt.

Kerry, if he get's in, he might as well be a slave to the system to because Kerry has goodies for everybody and the only way he can deliver is if he raises taxes, so how can your son grow up having the same life you did if obviously the left and right aren't going to garantee that.

The libertarian party isn't a hippie organization, if you really knew anything at all, you would see that once upon a time the left and right founded their prinicipales off the same ideology. But they've stemmed so far away from what was normal for America, they are both taking us for a ride into the unknown, who wants an unpredicatable future especially for their children?
The libertarian party isn't so far out there like you claim it is, maybe all those drugs you emmersed yourself in as a young adult flipped your brain chemistry around like john kerry and george bush had theirs.

Their selling ideas to the public, and they've been full of empty promises in the past and they are doing it still, I don't see how your child could be in danger if you voted for libertarian, because you know damn well that they would deliver, and it would give your child a chance to grow up without having to pay off a federal debt that he had nothing to do with, in fact, he would have his own personal debt to worry about when the time comes.

That something is the Federal government and its policy of taxation and inflation. Let's take a look at a median income family of four in the 1950s. At that time, the Federal income tax amounted to only 2% of the family budget. Americans enjoyed the highest standard of living in the world.

By contrast, in the 1990s, the Federal income tax takes 25% of income for the same family of four. Taxes at all levels -- federal, state, and local; hidden and visible -- take about 50% of a family's income. We must work from January to June just to pay taxes.

It now requires two paychecks to keep many families from going bankrupt. Typically, a working mother brings home 32% of a family's income.

So, whether she chooses to work -- or must work to make ends meet -- taxes have stolen her contribution to the family budget. In other words, one spouse now works all year just to pay taxes. source:lp
I guess to you that's hippie talk...



When you see the way some people are living around the world, you can't imagine your child growing up like that, thats what makes me fear a complete upheaval of the system into uncertainty, I want change, but slowly, and reasonably, we need laws, we need police, and we need a strong military.



Nothing happens over night, of course we need laws and police, you think that if lp was to come into power that they would take those away?

I don't think you even care to go look at their issues and stance on things, if you just want to blow smoke just say so.

Nobody is saying to take away the military either, obviously we need one, your thinking this would be a chaotic nation because you have an idea that the lp is some hippie anarchist organization...

Maybe you thought so in your drug days, which I can understand because your brain was under the influence, but it's not, bring your head down from out of the clouds, if you really cared about your child's future you wouldn't be putting blind faith into kerry. And if you really cared about your child's well being you wouldn't be operating under "anybody but bush" that so many people do.

I'd open a book and research kerry's record, in congress, in the force, and HOW, not what he plans to do to our nation. You know he's become the santa claus of the country, so just HOW is he going to deliever?? You never answered that question when I asked it before...



And I have lots of Hippie friends. As for Kerry, he's not my idea of the perfect candidate, but I think he's better than Bush. And he did come under fire in Viet Nam


Oh... woooow... A) I'm not a hippie, i'm an athlete, I drink creatine, not drips of k, I wear sports bras, not no bras. I wear running shoes, not straw sandles.

B) Kerry is not better then Bush and Bush is no better then Kerry.
I'd seriously think about your child because if you vote for either of them I gaurantee you your child will be paying a # load of money either way, and he won't be getting the life that you wish upon him.

C) Just because Kerry came under fire "once" doesn't make him a hero.
So now your going to vote for him because he was under fire and knows what it's like to be faced with death? What about you? You were a druggie, you probably came more close to death then kerry did. Why don't I vote for you??



what I think is insane about Badnarik, is the fact that he is running at all, and if he really believes he can win. He would lose to Nader if the other two fell off the planet. I just don't see the logic in running a campaign and wasting money on a candidate that can at best hope to get 2% of the vote, to waste a vote on a statement. But thats just me.


Yes thats just you, Badnarik is running for the lp, not on his own like Nader, the lp has been around for many many years, this isn't anything new.

This party is designed for people who want to run their own lives and not have to worry about paying off a federal budget, and not having to worry about sending our children overseas because of a draft, the party stands for people taking care of themselves and taking care of eachother, if you were to look more closely you would see it's not a hippie organization, and badnarik has balls for running, and I respect him because I see what he's fighting for and I see what who he's fighting against, and I agree with him and the party 100% the anybody but bush mentality just goes to show how many apathetic people are out there.

The lp has a cause and they are fighting for it, it's more logical then the bush and kerry campaigns put together. The lp isn't full of empty promises, and corruption. If you trusted yourself to run your own life and not have somebody else do it because they saw you as stupid and inept, then i'm sure you would vote for them too. But I don't see that judging by the way you post.



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 12:45 PM
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Truelies, wow, well I guess I got you all wrong too. I know now that you are a cynical, insulting person who is also putting blind faith in the LP the way I am in Kerry, and I have looked into the issues, and I dont see the LP stances as being realistic. And I only told you my life story (believe me, theres alot more) to dispell who you thought I was. And youre insulting youre parties base when you belittle those who have opened their mind or "dumbed it down" as you put it. Believe me, thats who the LP relies on, and thats who they are out trying to reach on the streets. And, I haven't done any drugs in a long time, as a matter of fact I am probably a more dedicated athlete than you, I have been a bodybuilder for the past 6 yrs and also take creatine, glutamine, multi-vitamins, protein shakes, and an occasional pro-hormone (not steroids) cycle ( I prefer 4-AD and 1 A-D stack). Not that any of that makes me any more right or wrong with my stances on the issues, just as it does not with you. And if you havent done drugs, I don't know where your paranoia of the government that has kept you warm and safe your entire life comes from. I dont really care. And I dont care which biased, politically motivated books or articles you have read and put full stock into. Believe what you like. Its a free country, although you contend otherwise. Keep believing the government should be whisked back in time when the country was first founded, but things have changed and will continue to, but they will not go backwards. Keep supporting a 1% party.
And no, I didnt answer your question about Kerry for the same reason you didnt answer mine, your not the party spokesman, remember? Niether am I. And I guess you must be in the upper class to be worried about Kerry raising taxes, not me I'm comfortably living in the middle class, so if you make over $200,000 a year, I dont feel sorry for you. And obviously, I dont support the anybody but Bush policy, I would vote for him long before I threw my vote away on your inexperienced, fringe party candidate, no matter what he promises. Why do you believe he will deliver and Kerry won't? Blind faith, the same thing you accuse me of. Anybody can stand up and promise the world, any party can, especially when theres no chance of him being elected in the first place, so he'll never be put in the position of letting you down. You want to discuss issues and platforms like your some kind of pundit, its hillarious really, keep reading. One day the LP will rise from the political fire like the Phoenix, yeah right! And even if it did (which it will not) it would flap its little wings right into the pockets of special interests, just like the two real parties. But keep believing, and to think for a moment I felt bad about upsetting you. I wont make that mistake again! And by the way, creatine only volumizes cells and enhances recovery, it doesnt make you smarter, and maybe your sports bra is a bit too tight, maybe thats why your so mean, loosen up a bit.


[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]

[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Truelies, wow, well I guess I got you all wrong too. I know now that you are a cynical, insulting person who is also putting blind faith in the LP the way I am in Kerry, and I have looked into the issues, and I dont see the LP stances as being realistic.


We live in a cynical world, cynical ideas flow through every vain in all parties, I don't know one that is like that. You might want to call blind faith in the lp which could be true since, I haven't seen them in office in my lifetime, but that won't stop me from voting for them because they make alot more sense imo, then kerry and bush put together, i've seen the democrats in power and the republican in power in my lifetime, while some things they do are good, alot of it I am appaled by, especially when it comes to environmental issues and civil liberties.



And I only told you my life story (believe me, theres alot more) to dispell who you thought I was. And youre insulting youre parties base when you belittle those who have opened their mind or "dumbed it down" as you put it. Believe me, thats who the LP relies on, and thats who they are out trying to reach on the streets.


Actually, if any party were to rely on people like that, I would think it would be the democrats. Why should I "believe" you again?? What gives the idea to even think that I would believe you, if you have proof of this i'd be glad to take it under advisement.




And, I haven't done any drugs in a long time, as a matter of fact I am probably a more dedicated athlete than you, I have been a bodybuilder for the past 6 yrs and also take creatine, glutamine, multi-vitamins, protein shakes, and an occasional pro-hormone (not steroids) cycle ( I prefer 4-AD and 1 A-D stack).


I don't know if you are a more dedicated athlete then I am, that wasn't even remotely in my argument, but if you feel the need to boast, go right agead. I've been bodybuilding since I was 15 also 6 years, i've been on creatine since that age, i take multi vitamins everyday, along with whey protein shakes, and calcium pills, my workout cycle involves a mixture of lifting 3 times a week, interval training 3 times a week, and cardio twice a week. I am trying get stacked so I can compete in bodybuilding competitions. I've always enjoyed lifting, and if you have also, well good for you. Let's get back to the argument shall we.



And if you havent done drugs, I don't know where your paranoia of the government that has kept you warm and safe your entire life comes from.


I don't know what your talking about here, I don't think i've ever claimed the idea that the government has kept me warm and safe, please find that in my argument so that I can address it accordingly.



I dont really care.


Yes you do...



And I dont care which biased, politically motivated books or articles you have read and put full stock into. Believe what you like. Its a free country, although you contend otherwise. Keep believing the government should be whisked back in time when the country was first founded, but things have changed and will continue to, but they will not go backwards. Keep supporting a 1% party.


What you think about what I think is not what I think but merely what you think about what I think. So i will keep supporting a third party which is the fastest growing political party out of all the others. While the left and right continue to lose members i'll be sitting here drinking my whey protein laughing in my chair because all along the truth was biting people in the ass but they were so blinded by apathy they didn't take the time out to really look closely.

And still i'm wanting to know where you got your 1% figure... Seems alot of your statistics your pulling out of your ass just like your childish diagnosis about Badnarik having the bat# insane syndrome, i'm still waiting for the medical records on that btw.

[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]

[edit on 5-8-2004 by TrueLies]



posted on Aug, 5 2004 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by TrueLies
We live in a cynical world, cynical ideas flow through every vain in all parties, I don't know one that is like that. You might want to call blind faith in the lp which could be true since, I haven't seen them in office in my lifetime, but that won't stop me from voting for them because they make alot more sense imo, then kerry and bush put together, i've seen the democrats in power and the republican in power in my lifetime, while some things they do are good, alot of it I am appaled by, especially when it comes to environmental issues and civil liberties.


Exactly, you have seen Dems and Reps in office, so you know that the country, while taking some wrong turns, has remained one of the greatest nations on earth under their watch. I never said they were angels. Thats the stable future I wish for my son, and no I dont see a police state in the future. As for taxes, we have to pay for the police, emergency services, and superior military, so I dont mind. We are used to a standard of living that must be supported financially, and I support reform, but realistic reform.



Actually, if any party were to rely on people like that, I would think it would be the democrats. Why should I "believe" you again?? What gives the idea to even think that I would believe you, if you have proof of this i'd be glad to take it under advisement.


When I was younger, in my drug days as you would call it, the LP had a booth set up on Mill ave. in Tempe with a big sign stating "Sign up now to legalize marijuana!" And everybody who signed was registered to vote as Libertarian, theres your proof, take it under advisement or dont, I dont care.




I don't know if you are a more dedicated athlete then I am, that wasn't even remotely in my argument, but if you feel the need to boast, go right agead. I've been bodybuilding since I was 15 also 6 years, i've been on creatine since that age, i take multi vitamins everyday, along with whey protein shakes, and calcium pills, my workout cycle involves a mixture of lifting 3 times a week, interval training 3 times a week, and cardio twice a week. I am trying get stacked so I can compete in bodybuilding competitions. I've always enjoyed lifting, and if you have also, well good for you. Let's get back to the argument shall we.


My training cycle is 2 days on 1 day off, cardio warm-up before and cool-down after heavy lifting. If youre trying to get stacked you will probably need to supplement some kind of testosterone pre-cursor, to build muscle. But I dont know what kind of competition you wish to compete in. I wish I had the time and money to compete pro, but I enjoy it has a hobby. I havent missed a workout in 2 yrs. Maybe Im kinda obsessive, but thats off point. Oh yeah, and I hope you've taken off cycles on the creatine, you cant take it everyday for 6 yrs, your receptors will not even respond to it if you don't take time off.




I don't know what your talking about here, I don't think i've ever claimed the idea that the government has kept me warm and safe, please find that in my argument so that I can address it accordingly.


I never said you did, Im just pointing out to you that it has, obviously, or you wouldn't be at the computer dissenting against it. You would probably live under a dictatorship that would crush any opposition like yourself. You'd probably be in prison at best.




Yes you do...


Whatever.



What you think about what I think is not what I think but merely what you think about what I think. So i will keep supporting a third party which is the fastest growing political party out of all the others. While the left and right continue to lose members i'll be sitting here drinking my whey protein laughing in my chair because all along the truth was biting people in the ass but they were so blinded by apathy they didn't take the time out to really look closely.


Give me some numbers, support your fastest growing theory. And back to bodybuilding if your trying to build muscle, you may want to drink a weight gainer, not just whey protein, as you need carbs and calories in conjunction with protein to build, whey is good for after workouts because your body utilizes it fast, but you need carbs and calories too. You may already know that, but just in case you dont. I dont want to see you spin your tires politically AND physically, that would be a real shame.



And still i'm wanting to know where you got your 1% figure... Seems alot of your statistics your pulling out of your ass just like your childish diagnosis about Badnarik having the bat# insane syndrome, i'm still waiting for the medical records on that btw.


I was actually looking at electoral vote numbers, thats where the 1% came from, not population support percentage, I dont know that, thats why I asked above. The bat# insanity diagnosis was just my own, but I'm not a doctor, maybe he should get that checked out though, it could be contagious, maybe you attended one of his speeches, just kidding. Hope there was no excessive quoting here.


[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]

[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]

[edit on 5-8-2004 by 27jd]




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