Does time really exist ?

Due to a discussion on a different thread where i accidently changed the object of discussion around by posting a reply about the theorys of "time". I would therefore like to have a page dedicated to the disscussion as there was a great response.

[edit on 1-8-2004 by John bull 1]

I'll post what I wrote in the other thread:
I agree with you and everything saint that time doesn't exist. But right now its more like a belief. And the whole sole reason its a belief is because the sun still rises and sets, what do you propose I do about that? Or can you comment more about how time doesnt exist in the context of the movements of the "heavens"?

I think my question was answered. We are in one dimension of many, and though time doesnt exist as a whole, it does exist in this dimension, at least in some form or another. But how do we get rid of time in this world we live on..

One more thing, i read somewhere that time as we see is just shifting our view of reality. Could that be our concept of change, the motions of the heavens, and so forth...

Me and a friend of mine got very stoned the other day and started talking about the links between time, space and parellel dimensions, combining them all to create co-ordinates.

It went something like:

To travel through time you woulld have to travel through space too, as the earth isn't in the same place as it was 100 yrs ago for example... thats a given.

If you look at time as linear....seriously.... think of a line which would be your life. Then imagine that all the infinate choices throughout your lifetime to branch off from this time... your alternate dimensions or parellel universes.

Is there are an infinite number of choices from your timeline, then an infinite number from each of the timeline branching off of that then the line would turn into an infinite 3d block... if you can see what i mean.

For example, look behind you for the past, but a little to the left for a different past.

In this way you could theoretically give a co-ordinate for any point in time, space and any parellel universe.

And the meaning of life??

To see out this timeline as it is set.

Well, it went something like that but i was stoned at the time so.....

Time only exsists in this dimension cos we make it exsist. If we didnt rely on the sun for time we would only find something else to use as our model for time. If a year was to become 400 days long due to a change in solar activity would we still base our time on that cycle or would we stay the same. We wouldnt know what to do cos we cant handle life without our man made time. I think time travel could be possible if we got rid of the idea that time exsists itself. I think that on a spiritual level time does not exsist and that their time is any way they want it to be. You would not have to think about a past or a future because it is all there now in some form of dimension. I have had experience of outer body experiences and have had the chance to look at the world without time being a barrier. Call them lucid dreams or bs if you want but i dont care what they were as they still gave me the chance to experience a timeless zone in whatever mindframe i was in.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

We are in one dimension of many, and though time doesnt exist as a whole, it does exist in this dimension, at least in some form or another. But how do we get rid of time in this world we live on..

So therefore, if it exists at all anywhere does it not exist period, whether you believe it doesn't exist as a whole here, there or elsewhere?

And hey there, I punch a timeclock, what happens to my paycheck if we get rid of it? What are you thinking?

But I'm saying the sun still moves. Even if we never relied on any concept of time, the sun would still be moving, day and night would still exist. The two polar extremes, day and night, virtually dictating the polarities we see in some many other ways. But is that still in our control. I too have had lucid dreams and been to places where time doesnt exist, but I would like to bring that feeling to the earth as a whole. Or rather change the denseness of this dimension if you know what I mean.

Well, relentless, I dont really understand your first question but Ill just reply to what I think you are asking. I say time only exists here because we cant go back 10 minutes ago and change what we were doing. And the only reason time does exist here is our perception that we cannot go back in time or to the future. But in other dimensions I think it is possible to do whatever is your fancy. That if you want to go back to that time with your friends you could. So when I say on a whole it doesnt exist, I mean that it doesnt truly exist even if we werent here, it only exists because we make it exist.

Also, I've heard some people say that the past and future dont exist period, but the fact is we still remember the past and try as we want, we cant go back, at least in the way we want to. But maybe what they are trying to say is that when you were picking fruit off a tree last week, its the exact same as picking fruit this week. But the orientation of the clouds are different, it might be raining this week, and other factors might be occuring that our outside of our control to give us the perception we are at different moments in time.

If we could somehow change these factors that our outside of our control, we could change our perception that as a whole that time doesnt exist. The past and future wouldnt matter, only now, because if you wanted it to be sunny when you were picking fruit it would be. If you wanted it to be day it would, etc. Well, I'm going to have to ponder on this some more because I've never really given this concept some serious thought especially in the context of external factors that appear to be outside our control...

I know what your saying about the sun and yes it would still be rising and setting even if we didnt have time but that does not mean because the sun rises and sets we have time. We humans needed somthing to organize the world by and the only way we could do that would be to introduce time and the only thing that could help us dictate time would be the regular rise and set of the sun. The sun does not dictate time to us we just used the sun as a guide line for our man made object of time.

Ignoring all the holy mumbo jumbo there is some good points in my next link.
www.sacredconnection.ndo.co.uk...

I am always amazed at those who question if Time is real or not, just as I am equally amazed and taken aback by those who claim or pronounce that Time is not real.

Time is real, and that you can all take to the bank. No matter how Time is measured, gained, and/or calculated, the fact remains that Time itself is real and is apart of every reality, per se'.

Time cannot be in question, for Time simply 'Is'....what can be questioned is the method of measuring Time, but again, not Time itself.

If Time did not exist then how would one explain the rising and setting of the Sun, which btw, can be measured and measured in whatever method you may so deem....or how would one explain the cycle of the new moon, the cycle of the planets, etc.....all of which can ALSO be measured in whatever method of measuring you can deem useful....

Time exists, if you wish to question anything concerning it, question how Man first came to measure Time (ie: the rising and setting of the Sun, etc.).



seekerof

Originally posted by thesaint

The sun does not dictate time to us we just used the sun as a guide line for our man made object of time.

Ignoring all the holy mumbo jumbo there is some good points in my next link.
www.sacredconnection.ndo.co.uk...

Okay, but time does in fact exist. Maybe the question should be are we bound by it and is it able to be manipulated reagardless of the fact that we believe it therefore it is.

Just a thought.

Because we used the sun as a guide line for our man made time due to the fact that the solar system revolves around the sun with regular momentum so we seen that as the perfect guide to our new practice of time. Time or no time the sun will still rise and set. Same as if you get a bucket and spin a golf ball like a wall of death rider round the inside of the bucket when you stop the ball will still spin with regular momentum for a while the same as with the solar system only on a much bigger scale.

thesaint,
Thats may all make alot of sense to you, me, it and they, but the fact still remains that you have not discounted Time, just the method used to measure it.

Again, as I asserted already, Time exists. Man may measure a day to be 24 +/- hours, while inhabitants of a world/planet two Universe's over may measure it to be 34 +/- hours or hectars or whatever they or you may wish to characterize it to be....the point is and will still continue to be that Time exists; its the method of measuring Time that can be argued. In short, Time itself simply 'Is', and will always be...its universal and beyond...almost a constant. What is not universal or 'constant' is the method of measurement/measuring Time.



seekerof

[edit on 31-7-2004 by Seekerof]

I'd like to discuss that article:

If many people observe a point along this line differently, it can become "conflicted," and create an interference field of alternate versions of that past event.

So as the sun is in light quantum dialogue with the central black hole, the earth is feeding these codes into its core. As a result, time bends, warps, expands and contracts all around and within us, yet most of us are oblivious to this dance.

So, how do we go about observing the past? Or is he trying to say that time is cyclic, and we make our way back around to the past without even realizing it?

I seriously doubt that time is constant though. Time is relative as Einstein put it..

[edit on 31-7-2004 by Jamuhn]

Time is but a measurment of movement thru space using a given central reference point.

For us,...secs,mins,hrs,days are all measurements of movement reletive to the sun in our solar syatem.


It is constant, UNLESS you are able to stop/vary the movement of everything, reletive to ALL reference points possible. Even at the atomic level.


If a tree falls in the woods with nobody around, does it make a noise?

If there were no thinking creatures on earth or anywhere, does time still occur? Of course.

Well i cant answer that as i cant say either as my obvious answer is that it does not exsist at all. If i had no choice but to answer that question though i suppose id say relative. The best way to think about it is to just sit back close your eyes and imagine no time exsists. Forget for one moment what has been drummed into you since birth and imagine the possibilities. No one would really be scared about growing older for a start as there would be no time to judge it by.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by thesaint]

The only thing I see wrong with the concept of time is that it is seen as something that begins and ends.

The only reason why this is a common belief is because human kind is so full of themself and thinks: My life starts and ends, everything around me starts and ends, so the universe and time also must have a start and an end.

If you think about it though, and take pure science into consideration, it should be read as: "I get born and die, everything around me gets born and dies, so the universe and time/space also are born and die".

When we die, the world doesn't end, our physical form just becomes part with the earth again. We get recycled

Our universe, like us, is in a cycle, from big bang to big bang. Or in case string theory big bang theory is right, a universe gets born when 2 branes colide and can also be destroyed when this happens.

One of the most basic laws in science says that we don't end when we die either. It states that energy and mass can't be destroyed, but only converted.
The energy and atoms in our body just get remerged with the whole(in our case planet earth and nature) and are converted into something else.

Time is just a figment of our imagination and an excuse for human kind to deny how meaningless his life and death really are, compared to the gigantic workings of the entire universe.

Originally posted by thematrix
The only thing I see wrong with the concept of time is that it is seen as something that begins and ends.

The only reason why this is a common belief is because human kind is so full of themself and thinks: My life starts and ends, everything around me starts and ends, so the universe and time also must have a start and an end.

Time is just a figment of our imagination and an excuse for human kind to deny how meaningless his life and death really are, compared to the gigantic workings of the entire universe.

I don't see how thinking the lack of beginnings and endings contradicts time.

Nor do I see time as an excuse for humankind to deny the meaninglessness of life and death. As for that there are certainly other things that play a bigger role.

But seriously, NEWS FLASH it's approx. 19:54 EST. Time does EXIST you sillies! If you are even talking about it, it exists.

A lot of people get time comfused with change. Time is just a measurement on the rate of change. Change is what us humans experiance, not time. Time doesen't exist only change.

[edit on 31-7-2004 by Brown]

I'm going to say this one more time.

If you are talking about it - it is.

I refer back to speakerof's quote for the rest of this.