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If God is all loving..

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posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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If God is all loving....

We have to expect that "he" watches with indifference as species go extinct on earth, due to rapidly changing enviroment or threat from predators and disease. (99.8% of all species that ever existed)

We have to believe he has designed The Andromeda Gallaxy on a collision course with our own, ultimately causing destruction.

We have to believe that geological events are watched with indifference as they cause havoc and death to many.

We have to believe that this God is capable to allowing sociopaths and psycopaths to cause havoc and death to many. That he "designed" them.


...Pretty loving God.

"The problem of evil"


1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).


"Euthyphro dilemma"


: "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"


The last philosophical dimma is remained a large point of contention against Theists for many thousands of years.




posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by SaveTheWolves
 


Excellent point, in fact mine is.
Btw I love your nick and avatar, doggies in their most natural form.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by EternalThought
 


I see, we are your final and we did not give the information you wanted.
Why not rewrite your paper with our idea that religion and philosophy walk a thin line hand in hand and that man has blurred that line alot?
Hope it helps.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
3. A perfectly good being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being, who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good being, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).


"Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"


The last philosophical dimma is remained a large point of contention against Theists for many thousands of years.


Well, what if i told you that evil doesn't exist? Evil is mearly mans emotions of greed, hatred, jelousy, envy, and selfishness....im sure i left a few out too


Not evil, just mans nature.


edit on 7-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by g146541
 


Thank you! I love your avatar too! Canines are awesome in all their forms.


I think to a lot of people philosophy and religion go hand in hand. When I was taking philosophy classes religion always came up. And the philosophy instructor was often the one to bring up religion. To exclude religion from philosophy when God is the topic seems kind of, I don't know, un-philosophical?



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


We arn't all born into sin despite what your prophet Jesus claims. (or the men writing the bible claim)

Original sin is nonsense. If there is no evil, there is no Devil, and no need for the hellfire dogma. It's evil.

Again, you can't prove this is "man's nature" - And man wouldn't have got this far if we were not empathic and altruistic in nature. The altruistic characteristic is in the legacy of our genes. We are empathic creatures.

That's why i protest your beliefs. It's an insult to human intelligence to say we NEED a dictator, or a prophet like Jesus in order to be good to one another.

Besides, if we believe your Jesus nonsense, we have to believe that God waited a mimimum of 100,000 years of human evolution before he decides to introduce "a savior"

I really don't think you believe in this, i think you just WANT to believe in it, and it's nice when other people agree with you and preach the message of Christ.

This need, this desire to be told what to do, this consideration of humans as naturally evil is incredibly slavish and servile.

Jesus can't absolve your personal responsibility (Vicarious Redemption) you are responsible for your own actions.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by SaveTheWolves
reply to post by EternalThought
 


One's religion could be their philosophy.


Toaism could be considered a religion, a philosophy or even "a way of life"

There is debate on wether it should be called a religion.

A point to note is that it doesn't attempt to reveal the unknown. it makes no extraorindary claims to supernaturalism, or metaphysical truth.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by EternalThought
 



Let's assume that God exists
I have to stop you right there, and get your philosophy in check. The assumption is according to Christians, is that we exist because of god. This would make God existence. Question is, is does existence exist?.Answer would be rightfully so.



posted on May, 7 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by Theophorus
 


LOL, don't let his word play confuse our lack of knowledge regarding the universe (or reality)

Just because we exist in a reality, it's still an assumption to state it was "made" by a deity.

You don't know how it works, scientist's don't know how it works, it could have a beginning, it could have no beginning, it could be infinite, it could be not.

Truth is, you're just as naive as us Atheists.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 04:41 AM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



We arn't all born into sin despite what your prophet Jesus claims. (or the men writing the bible claim)


How do you know this for a fact? You don't... its a theory which has to do with Karma.


Original sin is nonsense. If there is no evil, there is no Devil, and no need for the hellfire dogma. It's evil.


lol, so you just said if theres no evil....blah blah...then called something evil.... you confuse me sometimes. I also said nothing about hellfire anything... thats more garbage from our christian friends.


That's why i protest your beliefs. It's an insult to human intelligence to say we NEED a dictator, or a prophet like Jesus in order to be good to one another.


You protest everyones beliefs so think whatever you like... I said nothing about a dictator nor did i say we need Jesus for anything. You really don't read my posts do you?


Besides, if we believe your Jesus nonsense, we have to believe that God waited a mimimum of 100,000 years of human evolution before he decides to introduce "a savior"


You don't have to believe anything.............and who is this "we"...how many people are sitting behind your screen? I don't expect anyone to listen to what i say... if they do... great, if not thats great as well.


I really don't think you believe in this, i think you just WANT to believe in it, and it's nice when other people agree with you and preach the message of Christ.


More assumptions...geez
As i've said i could care less if a single person listens or agrees with me... So i'll say this again....Clearly you don't read my posts.


This need, this desire to be told what to do, this consideration of humans as naturally evil is incredibly slavish and servile.


I said evil doesn't exist....yet again, you don't read my posts




Jesus can't absolve your personal responsibility (Vicarious Redemption) you are responsible for your own actions


I didn't say that either....

Really man you're starting to get annoying.... You don't read anything i post...so whats the point of replying to me? Just for the sake of arguement?

I know, you believe nothing but your silly attempts to correct are pointless if you DON'T read what i say...

*sigh*
edit on 8-5-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



How do you know this for a fact? You don't... its a theory which has to do with Karma.


Karma is nonsense, there's no system that punishes bad actions. If you're a bad person, other people's thoughts and judgement of you should be your prison. And you don't know Karma exists for a fact, but who's the one saying it does?

Again, you'll just claim that i can't prove Karma doesn't exist, which is a cunning argument.


lol, so you just said if theres no evil....blah blah...then called something evil.... you confuse me sometimes. I also said nothing about hellfire anything... thats more garbage from our christian friends.


You believe in God, right? - So you believe in true good? So that must have an oppposite.


You protest everyones beliefs so think whatever you like... I said nothing about a dictator nor did i say we need Jesus for anything. You really don't read my posts do you?


I don't protest belief, i challenge belief, there's a difference, I do read, i respond to your points.


.and who is this "we"...how many people are sitting behind your screen


I'm talking about everyone, "are WE expected to believe?". I'm assuming that that my atheist rationalists are as as skeptical as me. I'm allowed to use "we" if i chose. I was referring to my agnostic atheist rationalists. Say whatever you will about that.


More assumptions...geez


That's a cunning little smiley there. Fact is - I did say i THINK, and yes it was an assumption. But it wasn't an assumption regarding God. I didn't pass it off as truth, i said I THINK.

I said evil doesn't exist....yet again, you don't read my posts


Blah blah blah, evil doesn't exist but man natural instinct isn't "good" (slavery, rape, theiving) Pretty much our perceptions of "evil" - So which is it? Is man born into Sin? or is he not?

If you don't believe in evil, then Charles Manson was not evil. right? And your God made him? Cool.




Really man you're starting to get annoying.... You don't read anything i post...so whats the point of replying to me? Just for the sake of arguement?


Meh, you said you believed in Christ, i'm arguing the idiotic dogma of Christ (haha i know i can't prove it wrong) Apologies if you only adhere to some of the preaching of Christ, It can be for the benefit of Christians.

I'm only responding politely - Try not to get butthurt my Christ-loving friend.

A&A
edit on 8/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


Alright so...from the top...


Karma is nonsense, there's no system that punishes bad actions. If you're a bad person, other people's thoughts and judgement of you should be your prison. And you don't know Karma exists for a fact, but who's the one saying it does?


So as usual you believe whatever you like. I believe Karma is real... how do i know? I experience it on the regular. If you walk the right path in your life it will correct you if you stray off of it. Have you ever said something to someone and felt guilty about it....then a minute later you bash your knee on something? Welcome to Karma my friend. Coinsidences don't exist...even the word tells you so...co...insidence. But again, don't believe me, it really doesn't matter.


Again, you'll just claim that i can't prove Karma doesn't exist, which is a cunning argument.


Quite the contrary actually... Do something "bad" to someone you're friends with. Tell a homeless person who asks you for change to F off. Then watch what happens to you... You might dismiss whatever happens as a coinsidence but i don't....i know better. Or even do something extremely positive for someone... It will also come back to you....Give it a try, Karma is easy to prove.


You believe in God, right? - So you believe in true good? So that must have an oppposite


How can "the all" have an opposite? Good and evil don't exist. Theres Positive vibes and theres negitive vibes. The universe is one big Vibration, science can tell you that.


I don't protest belief, i challenge belief, there's a difference, I do read, i respond to your points.


Yet here you said...


That's why i protest your beliefs. It's an insult to human intelligence to say we NEED a dictator, or a prophet like Jesus in order to be good to one another.


Im not going to ask you "which is it" though....anyone can see the truth. You protest all beliefs...


I'm talking about everyone, "are WE expected to believe?". I'm assuming that that my atheist rationalists are as as skeptical as me. I'm allowed to use "we" if i chose. I was referring to my agnostic atheist rationalists. Say whatever you will about that.


ya i was just having some fun with ya



That's a cunning little smiley there. Fact is - I did say i THINK, and yes it was an assumption. But it wasn't an assumption regarding God. I didn't pass it off as truth, i said I THINK.


You like my smily faces eh
Perhaps you should stop assuming things about people, especially me. Remember you don't know me anymore then you know the words on Google. If you were actually "thinking" as you stated, you wouldn't assume to know what you don't. You "THINK" i don't believe what i tell you.... but i wouldn't be posting these things for all to see if i didn't believe what i speak.

I don't post to preach, i post for clarification.


Blah blah blah, evil doesn't exist but man natural instinct isn't "good" (slavery, rape, theiving) Pretty much our perceptions of "evil" - So which is it? Is man born into Sin? or is he not?

If you don't believe in evil, then Charles Manson was not evil. right? And your God made him? Cool.


Yup, you got it, Good old charlie that psycho... Is also a part of God. God made him? No he was born into this world just like everyone else was...innocent. Through his experiences in life, he turned into what he is today.

You seem to think God is a magician or something...

Man IS born into sin so to speak. Not the way Christians believe though.... they believe the concept of "original sin" has to do with Adam and eve... Such a load of crap. Original sin is you accumulated Karma from your past incarnations. Which is why some are born blind, or handycapped. Some arn't as "pretty" as others... etc etc.

For example...

Pistis Sophia

A "man who curses" is given a body that will be continually "troubled in heart". A "man who slanders" receives a body that will be "oppressed". A thief receives a "lame, crooked and blind body". A "proud" and "scornful" man receives "a lame and ugly body" that "everyone continually despises." Thus earth, as well as hell, becomes the place of punishment.


Meh, you said you believed in Christ, i'm arguing the idiotic dogma of Christ (haha i know i can't prove it wrong) Apologies if you only adhere to some of the preaching of Christ, It can be for the benefit of Christians.

I'm only responding politely - Try not to get butthurt my Christ-loving friend.


Idiotic eh...lol No i adhear to all of his teachings Perhaps you might show me what part of his teachings were idiotic....i would love to see that.

Anyways....take a look at this...

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. 34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. 37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

If you believe this is Idiotic, then im sorry to tell you my friend, but you fail at life.

Its your choice though, again i could care less what you believe




posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Theophorus
 


LOL, don't let his word play confuse our lack of knowledge regarding the universe (or reality)

Just because we exist in a reality, it's still an assumption to state it was "made" by a deity.

You don't know how it works, scientist's don't know how it works, it could have a beginning, it could have no beginning, it could be infinite, it could be not.

Truth is, you're just as naive as us Atheists.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


Yeah, I'll give you a star and agree with that. The thing that irks me about religion is the fervency with which they "know". There's no room for questioning or looking for answers. God created all and that's that, period end of sentence. It's a very destructive and dangerous mindset, though I am sure it's comforting.



posted on May, 8 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte

Because man's basis for what is right, what is love, and what is pure, clearly dictates what God should be, amirite?


this here what is love? how can man know what love is if we are not god?

for the op my mind is strong enough to break the molds of guilt I know what is right and wrong and no matter how much I convince myself there is no such thing as being wrong I will not believe it and I will still fell guilty



posted on May, 9 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Cinquain

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by Theophorus
 


LOL, don't let his word play confuse our lack of knowledge regarding the universe (or reality)

Just because we exist in a reality, it's still an assumption to state it was "made" by a deity.

You don't know how it works, scientist's don't know how it works, it could have a beginning, it could have no beginning, it could be infinite, it could be not.

Truth is, you're just as naive as us Atheists.
edit on 7/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)


Yeah, I'll give you a star and agree with that. The thing that irks me about religion is the fervency with which they "know". There's no room for questioning or looking for answers. God created all and that's that, period end of sentence. It's a very destructive and dangerous mindset, though I am sure it's comforting.



Completely agree, and i'm sure it is comforting...as the crack is comforting to the addict - but whether ultimately true or not- It's still based on a lack of evidence, and is still an assumption.

I don't believe the reason for believing should be "comfort".

If God exists, and is merciful - I'm sure he'll have mercy on those who were nice people, but couldn't find a reason to believe. Same goes with Eskimoes, i'm sure he'll forgive those for not knowing about Christ, or any other religion's prophets.

Peace
edit on 9/5/11 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



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