if it does exist, it should be easy to verify if there's a court case about it as mentioned in the article. that sounds like one messed up place- sounds more like a pow camp than a school. the parents who send their children there need serious help. they should close the place down and social services should take the kids away from the parents for their own good.

-koji K.

my first thought was "does the camp from the book Holes really exist?"

I've noticed something growing up in this world: you can say whatever you want, and eventually you will believe it. This is true for what others tell you as well. Espeically since all the kids words sounded the same. They have been brainwashed to believe this is the best thing that could happen to them. And they cant leave because they are trapped by their parents, who supposedly want whats best for their child.

I wonder if a parent could get enrolled, just to know what it feels like. As ive said in another thread, taze instructors must be tazed before they can teach. Boot camp leaders went through boot camp themselves. How can you put a child through something, and tell them it hasnt effected them emotionally, when you yourself have not gone through it?

The worst part is that these kids have so many lies piled on top of this emotional trauma that they dont even realize there is a problem. I believe these kids will grow up, do the motions, and never be truely happy. Because this isnt their life. Its the life they were brainwashed into fullfilling.



---pineapple

P.S. If this place really exists, you should be able to find information on it. I mean, how else can they get customers?

[edit on 30-7-2004 by pineappleupsidedown]

I thought he had photographer access aswell

somethings fishy about this all, mainly the fact that theres no pictures and its not exactly from a a reliable news source (sorry, never heard of the observer before.)

what the....those parents should be arrested, the owner too, seriously that sounds quite illegal.

I dont think its possible unless some parent cares enough to prove something and get some hard evidence... most of the parents who send their kids there get the results that THEY want.. so no complaints.

My sister just pulled my nephew out of tranquility bay......it was a nightmare of monumental proportions....physical and emotional abuse that would land anyone in prison if the school were in the states.....

The indoctrination the parents and kids recieve is frightening......

PARENTS...DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS HERE !!!

this place really disturbs me. i mean, if a parent sexually abuses their 12 year old kid, what better to place to send them so they a.) are kept out of sight for 6 years and b.) are brainwashed into loving their parents again/forgetting the abuse?

i had a couple of ideas. first, maybe there could be some way of obtaining a list of parents who send their kids to this school (there might be a law making this mandatory, although i'm not sure if it would apply in jamaica) and making a website or even better, submitting the list to a newspaper to "name and shame". second, if a campaign was started to boycott jamaica as a tourist destination because of tranquility bay, and it was effective, you can be sure the jamaican authorities would take notice of this place, which is a start. they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice vital tourist revenue for one school's rent.

sadly though i don't think the issue will really attract much attention.

-koji K.

The BBC has a film crew and a reporter outside the gates of tranqulity bay.....They also managed to get to many of the parents, and they are helping the BBC blow the lid off this thing....

There are lawsuits pending as well......so in the words of John Kerry, "Help is on the Way"

There should be some kind of international law forbidding this. There's no way this can help kids. Parents gain respectful, good-natured, and obedient children, Tranquility Bay's workers get money for yelling at children. Children lose friends, basic natural rights, a normal life, family, and probably left mentally scarred. How can this place not defy basic Human Rights laws?

Oh yes, the place exists, but not in the way that the observer paints the picture. I've been there. I've seen it. I've lived the program that they teach. (Still do as a matter of fact.)

Please get the whole story before making judgements of others.

Mortis.

I read about Tranquility Bay, last year I think, in Marie Claire magazine.

It's terrible to think that, parents and kids can become so out of touch that they even 'need' to send their children to a place like that.

Mortis, as you are the only person I've ever heard advocating Tranquility Bay, perhaps you could share with us what kind of role you had there. Were you sent there as a child? or did you work there? What is the whole story then?

I'm a parent. I sent my 16 yr old daughter there in 2002.

It's terrible to think that, parents and kids can become so out of touch that they even 'need' to send their children to a place like that.

It's not as rare as you might think. I can name several hundred parents all over the world that I have personally met. What would you do with the teenager who is defiant, violent, has no respect for authority, you suspect drug use, and you lie awake at night and wonder if she'll be alive in the morning?

Well, first you try counselors, then you try therapists, then you try psychologists, then you try psychiatrists, then you try out-patient behavioral health, then you try in-patient behavioral health, then you try a group home, oh... don't forget Zoloft, Effexor, Paxsil, Prozac, etc.

You ask the school... no help.
You ask the police... no help.
You ask everyone you can think of, and no one can help.

Finally, you find a sliver of light in all the darkness. So you check it out. And you keep checking. And you hear questionable stories, but none from anyone who has actually been there, and STAYED there for very long. You call a referral list. All those stories are positive. You go to a support group meeting and for the first time, another parent knows exactly what you're talking about when you say you are afraid of your child. So you take that chance.

Expensive? Extremely. What price do you put on your child's life?

Tranquility Bay is only one of a group of associated behavior modification schools. More than 5 schools with similar programs are located in the continental US. All of the schools operate on basically the same program frame which believes in building whole and healthy families. They don't just work on the children. Parents attend seminars and workshops that mirror what the child is learning in the school. Parents and children attend seminars together to work on issues within the family.

In a nutshell, the program is based on family values:

Integrity
Trust
Faith
Relationships
Love

Question: If you send a child who lies to you to a place that they don't want to be, do you think that child will tell you the truth about the place? Or will they say anything and everything to get you to bring them home?

My daughter has since graduated from the schools. She is alive, healthy, happy, respects herself, treats others with respect, has dreams and hopes for her future, and on top of it all, wants to make her life's work helping other troubled teens.

When I say that I still live the program, I mean that I have clearly defined values that I live by on a daily basis. I mean that I live accountably and look at how my words and actions affect myself and others. I mean that I am able to love unconditionally regardless of actions.

I didn't "need" to send my daughter to this school. I "got" to. I believe it saved her life. (So does she) I also believe it saved my marriage and my family.

Mortis.

Mortis, you sent you own child there? It sounds pretty messed up to me. Certainly it would be totally illegal in the UK or Europe.

How did you persuade her to go?

Mortis,

As a teenager, what confuses me the most about the kids that get sent to places such as Tranquilty Bay is how did they come to the point when no one else can help them, that such radical measures must be taken? I mean sure I argue with my parents and am rebellious in my own way, but what pushes someone that far? And why can't/wasn't it picked up earlier and prevented from getting to that stage? How come parents can lose control over their kids so easily? Why can't integrity, trust, faith, relationships and love be cultivated in the home?

I had no doubt that places like Tranquility Bay and the families involved such as yourself were not rare, it's just I had never heard anyone advocate places like that before.

Muppet,

Are you saying that what I wrote sounds pretty messed up, or the other stories that you've read/heard? As far as how she was persuaded to go, well, she wasn't given a choice. My wife took her to Jamaica under false pretenses. Yes, we LIED to her. We lied to her to do what we believe would save her life.

Although having the place in the UK might be illegal, I do know several people from the UK that have sent their child to Tranquility Bay.

Colourblind,

Quick background. I'm a young parent. At under 40 yrs old, my children are 20, 18, & 17. I married a woman with 3 children. My wife is younger than I am.

I'm as confused as you are. I have two other children that I didn't send anywhere. My oldest and youngest have been pretty much what I would call typical teenagers. Minor rebellion, some arguing, etc... all what I would call typical of growing up, becoming independent, and forming their identities.

With my middle child, it's always been a little different. She was considered "high spirited" when she was younger. Extremely intelligent, but with a very mild case of dyslexia. Has always had difficulty with reading comprehension. Was the behavior picked up earlier? Yes, it was. Enter the counselors, therapists, etc. Sending her to Tranquility Bay was not a snap decision. The camels back was heavily laden before the final straw. It was an up and down cycle. Things would get bad... things would get better... then back to bad... back to better.

Integrity, trust, faith, relationships & love. As parents, I belive that my wife and I are pretty typical. Hard work, clean living, church, youth groups, involvement in the children's lives. We did what we "thought" was right. No abuse. The rare administration of a spanking when they were younger. Grounding and revocation of priviledges when older...

I've questioned myself ad nauseum regarding what we could have done differently. If there is anything, I don't know what it is. We did the best that we could with the information that we had.

As far as my daughter... She began to believe the lies that she told herself. "I'm not good enough", "My biological father doesn't love me", "I'm unloveable", "My mom loves my siblings more than she loves me", "I have trouble with reading comprehension so that means I'm stupid".

Self-esteem goes right down the tubes. No amount of love and assistance will change the way she sees herself until she decides differently. So she gravitated to people who would "accept" her. People who wouldn't hold her to any standards. Basically, people who don't have any standards themselves. Enter the drugs, the drinking, (because thats what the "no standards" group does when they hang out) the sex, (because that means someone loves me) and the "we don't have to respect authority, because they don't respect us" attitude. Combine all of this with the prevailing sense of entitlement that seems to exist in today's society and who wouldn't be messed up?

I believe that everyone goes through a bit of this while growing up. With my daughter though, it became so extreme that something drastic had to be done before she hurt herself or someone else.

You're a teenager. If your parents grounded you and told you that you couldn't go outside, what's to stop you? Technically, nothing. You could walk right out the door and your parents couldn't do a thing about it. So what stops you? I would say respect. Respect for your parents, and yourself. My daughter lost that respect. She gained it back, along with many other things at Tranquility Bay.

Not many people advocate places like Tranuqility Bay because the school expects children to be accountable for their results. No more blaming others. No more, "Poor little Johnny/Susie, their parents got divorced that's why they act that way". Now it's "Johnny/Susie are CHOOSING to act that way". Therefore Johnny/Susie get to suffer the consequences of their actions. Saying it's because their parents got divorced, is just an excuse.

Let's stop "nurturing" children and go back to disciplining them. It seemed to work better.

Just my thoughts.

Mortis

[edit on 15-9-2004 by Mortis]

mortis.. sorry, no offense meant. I didn't mean you were messed up!

What I really can't understand is how it's possible to one family member to basically sign away the rights of another, and have them imprisoned like that. In the UK it's called unlawful imprisonment! You just can't detain someone against their will like that.

I wasn't so different to your daughter when I was that age, but I know if I'd been put in a place like that I wouldn't have hung around. I'd have escaped within a week or two and cut off all remaining ties with my family, and been on my own in a seriously crime and drug ridden island hundreds of miles from home. Then, without any support at all I would have been in a worse position than before.. that's a mighty risk to take with your children if you ask me...

I'll be honest..I think what you did was wrong, though we obviously come from such different cultures that I wouldn't expect you to agree with me.. Your decision sounds considered and based on what you thought was right at the time, and as you say it seems to have worked..so far. Only time will tell... you won't know until she's really grown up and has a career and family of her own..

No offense taken. Just looking for clarity.

I'm not totally clear on the laws (won't ever pretend to be) but even here in the states someone can be imprisoned against their will if they are deemed to be a danger to society or themself. Granted, when it comes to an adult, there is usually a court order involved, but when it comes to children who should decide? Society? (yeah, right) or the parents? As a parent, I'll take that one into my own hands, because I already went through the "proper" channels and didn't get squat.

No offense to you, but you don't "escape" from Tranquility Bay. On the rare chance that you did, the locals are more than happy to inform the school of your whereabouts and even return you to the school themselves. As far as taking that risk... I didn't know if she was going to be alive tomorrow anyway. What risk did I take?

As you said, I doubt that we will ever agree, but I still respect your opinion and also respect you for seeking more information. Yes, it seems to have worked...so far. And I agree that only time will tell.

A big issue before was:

Society:"Do something about your child!!!"

Me:"Ok, what would you like me to do? I've tried a, b, c, d, e, f,...."

Society:"We don't know, just DO SOMETHING".

So I did something.

Society:"Oh, you shouldn't have done that"

GIVE ME A #@%$ BREAK!

She's over 18 now and her choices from here on out are up to her.

Just to rant a little... (not directed at you Muppet) What frosts me the most is that so many people think that parents ship their kids off to a school like this and then forget about them. Or basically say "Fix my kid". The schools that I know (Tranquility Bay being one of them) work on the WHOLE family. No one is "broken", but there is some sort of breakdown in the family. Rebuilding the family as a whole is their primary goal. Not turning the kid into some sort of Steppford child. Another key ingredient of the schools program is communication. Getting everyone communicating on the same level. Actually listening to each other and hearing what each other is saying. My daughter is still the same high-spirited, opinionated, person that she was before she left for Jamaica. The difference is the way that she expresses her thoughts and feelings. Also in how she feels about herself.

Ok, I could go on and on..... end rant.

Mortis