Ban the over 50's from Voting

reply to post by alphabetaone

the unemployed pay taxes

Seriously, how can anyone with NO his own income whatsoever pay taxes? Yes they pay income and salex tax from benefits they get FROM the state, but thats like saying when I give you 100 dollars and you return me 20, you actually payed ME. Does it mean everytime I go to the shop and pay with higher banknote, then get something returned, I am earning money? lol think logically. If you were right then 100% of population could be on unemployment benefits and the state budget would not fail, which is clearly nonsense.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by alphabetaone
The only thing I want to add to that is, that even though all generations have visited this phenomena in their life, I have yet to see where a generation wants to actually erode constitutional rights in their fervor to push their agenda. In fact, it's always been somewhat the opposite; fighting FOR them.

It's in no small part an offshoot of the Previous and current Obama campaigns. You need only look at who he has surrounded himself with and who he has associated with. Obama is too young to be one of the organizers, but was clearly taken fully under their wings.

I'm used to people not agreeing with my moderate stance. Moderates are always like a Yo-Yo between the two radical sides. We look to common sense and critical thinking instead of going with one side or the other. It maddens some we can't be pegged into a hole on the Right or the Left.

I expect to see things like is in this thread often until the next election. Obama is clearly placing his main hope in manipulating the young crowd as they are easier to fool. It's all about dividing us to control us and both sides have their ways of doing that. With Obama it's pitting the young against the old, rich against poor and then scaring Seniors.

I'm not surprised that we Independents are now the majority, nor am I surprised that the older the age group, the more likely they are to be Independent.

The problem with idea's and ideals like the concept of a global government, progressiveness, socialism and even communism is that on their face they sound like good idea's and they are. Problem is once you add in the Human Factor, they fall on their face. None of those idea's work because when you make it possible to survive without participating or being productive, to often the Human Animal will take the route of apathy. To young minds the idea of something for nothing sounds great. The idea of hard work and going the extra mile not so good.

We saw the end result of a society like they think they want as the Soviet's collapsed. Young Progressive have the view of history that it is not a lesson to learn from, but that these idea's failed in the past because they were not implemented right. Due to that, history has no meaning to a Progressive. In a way Narcissism is a must to even be a Progressive.

We have right now a bad point of view regarding young people that is unrealistic in fact. It's a fact that the Frontal Lobe does not even fully develop until about the age of 25. In reality it would be a more sensible idea to limit voting to those over that age, contrary to the nonsense in this thread. But then logic has left the building in this new PC world and the bad folk are taking great advantage of the nonsense.

Next the see-saw will go the other way as it appears to be a fact of life. A Progressive generation will produce Conservative offspring and then the pendulum will swing the other way again. Young adults will always take the side of rebellion and I think it is genetically hardwired into us. It's likely a survival tool that it is this way. If one side gains too much control for too long it would be likely a bad thing.

What are you smoking? I met more elderly welfare handout supporting democrats and younger Republican hard workers no hand outs(might be location). The Baby Boomers spent all they saved for retirement and they also spent future generations earnings to fill their own gullets.

Imagine a new all you can eat buffet opened up. The Seniors(Greatest and Silent Generations) showed up early and helped the staff lay the food out, while the boomers came strolling in, in the afternoon and stayed an hour till closing. The younger generations come in(Gen X to a degree and Gen Y) to find only crumbs left and the bills boomers bailed on.

The Boomer generation ruined this country with your progressive political dogma. Yous don't get it, the Boomer generation, your generation, is the generation of progressive narcissist's.

Young progressives are more of a minority then young progressives where during your generation genius! The only reason a lot of Gen Y takes handouts is because many have no other choice after your generation gutted this country!

reply to post by Wildbob77


I tend to agree with you WildBob. I just turned fifty and am back in college pursuing another degree. The incompetence of the under 25 crowd is astounding! A complete lack of understanding regarding the issues is rampant. The only thing these idiots are concerned with is who they can 'hook up' with. It's disgusting!!

reply to post by korathin


saved????????
spent????????
ya, right!!!!

by the time we paid those ever increasing taxes that always had "Medicaid" as their excuse, well, so, sorry, not enough left over to eat decently and have even a home that met hud standards ever, let alone splurge or save!!!
medicaid...oh, ya, that is mainly for poor single moms, and their darling children, isn't it???
I graduated in 77, by then the companies were already offshoring jobs left and right. then along came reagonomics.....which was just a grand idea, tent cities, oh, ya.......then, well, all those older brothers...who by the way will get their social security.....according to the politicians.....and medicare intact.... well, they had already over saturated the labor market.... and well, now that we are all about to retire..... .....two wars and the insanity of the gov't has the dollar plummeting, anyone my age who actually thinks that those ira's are gonna be of any value when it comes time for them to retire, really should reconsider...since, well, all those big brothers and sisters will have cashed out most of thiers before we get a chance. great minds of wall street have reduced the values of our homes to nothing....(and oh ya.....it was those great "superior" minds of the younger generation who thought it was perfectly okay to sign legal papers stating that they were the vice president of a number of major banks all at the same time!! )
oh, ya, we should have save!!! sure.......the greatest and costliest scam in american history has just taken place, the perps have been rewarded for the deed with billions in bailouts....those great "superior" young minds in wall street have gotten their million dollar bonuses....of our tax money!!!
and, obviously it's all the fault of us late boomers...since we seem to be the ones that everyone thinks should take the hit!!!
my message to the younger generation:
TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN KIDS!!! quite expecting the taxpayers to do it for you!!
LEARN TO PRODUCE SOMETHING OF VALUE. we aren't gonna be doing these jobs that you all are so appearently too good for forever, even if you do cut our social security down to nothing!! this country needs machinist and skilled laborers, not more paper pushers! God, even if that little 80 year old lady in my shop were to retire, there's no one to fill her spot!! industrial sewers are just so beneath your superior minds!!!
as kids we were left with the hand me downs from our bigger sisters and brothers, as young adults we had non-trickle down economics and an over saturated labor force with jobs flowing overseas at a growing rate,, as older adults, we had the nieces from our older brothers and sisters and their kids to support, and as retired people, well, sonny, be glad you will have crumbs!!!

That's not fair, some people can be 40 and act like children, others can be 18 and responsible. Logically won't those 18 year old men and women turn in to 50 year old men and women? I think the moment you start listing people who shouldn't be able to do things like vote, drive, or whatever it may be. That's when you go down that beautiful slippery slope, we need every able minded human being to come together, as a collective.

If we stop anyone from voting, it's taking away their rights, no matter who it is, older people, younger people, even people who you may think are dumb or ill informed. Regardless they have rights, one day you will be 50 also, remember that . Also, younger people should not be excluded from polls, to give illusion to unpopular opinions. Remember though, the MSM is doing that, not our 50+ year old's.

Unless maybe.... you think the Baby Boomers are planning to ruin our countries? by distorting polls and excluding us younger folk, I kid, I kid. I don't know a lot about American politics, but aren't some Baby Boomers at risk of losing their pensions? So I don't think their out to get us youngin's they hate the Government just as much, if not more. I know I'd be cranky if someone stole the money I put in for my retirement, my whole working life.

Divide and Conquer my friend, cause United we stand, Divided we fall.

reply to post by James1982


Because it isn't right to discriminate against anyone, I guess at one time in our lives, we have all felt like crabs in the bucket. When one of us climbs out, we pull em back down, why? because of the "if I can't get out, you can't either" mentality. Most of us grow out of it, and I'm sure that you must be annoyed, and that's where you're coming from on what you've said.

So to answer your question in short, it wasn't right when they did it to you, it's not right when they do it to others. Insurance companies are money vampires, remember how you felt when it happened to you. Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I think insurance shouldn't discriminate any age group for driving. It should be based on your driving skills, but I don't drive so there might be a lot I'm unaware of, no shame in it .

Just my 2 cents

reply to post by kennylee


I know it's hard, but don't let it get to you, the person who made this thread is 42 or 43 I think? So either he is trying to rile up a good debate. Or trying to get a reaction, his logic is faulty at best, and that's not meant to offend. I state this because what he said is mainly a generalization. Either way, isn't their a saying about not feeding the trolls? I'm with you though sometimes people can say the... let's say, Darndest things

Everything every spoiled little, entitlement mentality snot under 20 something enjoys was created in whole or in part by people over 50.

Perhaps gratitude needs to replace stupidity.

reply to post by angus1745


You must have been pretty bored to create a gem of thread like this. Be careful though because the over 50 crowd that you speak of is supporting the age group that you are touting. How many of the new entitled "Boomerang" generation are still living with their parents during and after college, while attending grad school, while unemployed, while working and saving or spending money on computer games without contributing a dime to their parents....

According to a study from Harvard University , almost 4 million 25-to-34 year olds are still living with their parents after graduating.

It’s a trend that’s increasing in popularity. According to the New York Times , 65 percent of college graduates are moving back home, compared to 53 percent just five years ago.

These boomerang kids are what social scientists have dubbed the phenomenon “adultolescense,” a period following college that can last five or more years.

www.cincyschoolzone.com...

Oh and most twenty somethings DON'T VOTE. So, why poll them

reply to post by Mikeyy


Sir, from this humble Canadian, you get a star

2nd line

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Star... Just seen that you posted about divide and conquer before I did. You got the nail right on the head my friend

reply to post by Maslo


Well, the argument is going to end here. Go check with any state departments division of taxation and find out if you are required to pay taxes when your are collecting unemployment benefits. *I* already know the answer and do very much feel it a waste of time for me to do the work for you. So, unless your agenda is arguing just because you can, and you really want to know the info, then go find it.

Otherwise it stops here as, this discussion is not pertaining what so ever with UI.

reply to post by alphabetaone


The taxes long-term unemployed pay come only from the benefits, so de iure they pay taxes, de facto they dont, since all they do is only return some portion of the received benefits as taxes. They never provide more into the budget than they receive, its impossible, since they would have to have other income to do that, and then they would by definition cease to be unemployed. NET cash flow is important.

And those who take from the common pool for long time having the same deciding right about it as someone who provides money into the common pool is not right. Thats just basic justice.

Originally posted by Maslo


And those who take from the common pool for long time having the same deciding right about it as someone who provides money into the common pool is not right. Thats just basic justice.

Maybe where you come from.

Where I come from it IS right, and it IS what made/makes the USA great. Maybe that's why foreigners are always attempting to crash the borders to get in? And maybe that's why there is such internal conflict about how to keep them out.

The USA was/is great because it was DIFFERENT than the rest of the world....we showed them how it should be done. Not by acquiescing to the same standards that the rest of the world lived by.

The ONLY solace I glean from this thread is despite my inability to ever be young again, all those who are bashing us Bingo fanatics will be old some day......B-27......Bingo

Karma is a boomerang, we have a winner.

reply to post by angus1745


I completely disagree...I think if we maybe for once listened to our over 50s...and ourselves went back to the gardening and not listening to main stream culture...than maybe our world would be a better place. My dad is 63, my mother just turned 50....they are the smartest and most respected people I know. I alway go to them when I have confusion or a problem and their advice has never failed me once. I fully believe it is today's technology and the "I want it now" mentality that our world has taken on that is the problem...not our generations who come from a time when things were much more slower paced and considerate.

I'm sure when you turn 50...you'll want to raise this age up..right?

reply to post by Maslo


Hey Maslo,

Who are these "long-term unemployed" you refer to?

It's obvious you aren't talking about people who are collecting "unemployment compensation". If so, you're spouting off about something you know absolutely nothing about! Unemployment compensation is not a "long-term" benefit. Nor is it paid out of federal income, sales, or state taxes! Those receiving unemployment compensation are required to report such payments as income, for tax purposes.

Do your own research! I just did!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by Nkinga


It's nice to read contributions from "youngsters" that know how to think for themselves.

A star for you my young friend!

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by alphabetaone


Oh, stop with the USA elitism, you certainly know that with the notable exception of Singapore all democratic countries operate without any meritocratic/technocratic elements, central Europe included.

Meritocratic states

While it is true that democracy is better than medieval monarchy was (except late enlightened monarchies, which were often even better than current democracies), it doesnt mean it cant be made even better, by adopting some meritocratic/technocratic elements, and preferably also turning it into direct form, which is possible for the first time in history on the level of nation states, since the invention of the internet.

Democracy has nothing to do with the right choices. It has to do with the popular choices.
-Bchara Karam

The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter.
-Winston Churchill

The vote of an university professor of successfull enterpreneur should NOT have the same weight as the vote of some uneducated unemployed ghetto "nigga" (MODS: "nigga" refering to lifestyle, not race). Of course everyone should have the right to vote, just so noone would feel unimportant, but individual vote weights should be different. Not everyone is equally competent to decide whether proposed policy would be good or bad for the society.

I envision it as such: All voters would propose laws and vote through the internet directly about the proposed laws submitted by other citizens (kinda like internet forum with poll option), but the individual votes would not have the same weight - weight would depend on persons education, maybe some test results (both general knowledge, IQ and EQ), criminal record, expertise and degree in the issue the law relates to, longterm uneployment would lower the weight, special achievements like Nobel prize would increase it etc..

www.meritocracy.org.uk...

Aristotle defined six different political systems: monarchy, aristocracy, constitutional government, democracy, oligarchy and tyranny. He was no fan of democracy: 'A democracy is a government in the hands of men of low birth, no property and vulgar employments.' The best political system, he said, was rule by a single wise ruler, followed by aristocracy (rule by a group of wise people), then constitutional government (a stable mixture of democracy and oligarchy). The worst forms of government were the mirror images of these three. So the worst political regime of all was a tyranny, where a single bad person wielded absolute power. Second worst was an oligarchy where a few corrupt individuals governed in their own interests. The third worst was the type of democracy which Aristotle regarded as practically the same as ochlocracy (government by the mob, the rabble).

reply to post by BenReclused


Yeah, you are right. I didnt mean unemployment compensation that is not payed from taxes, or private unemployment insurance from savings. That is of course income, which provides revenue to the state. I meant long-term unemployed who receive only minimum government welfare (or nothing, dont know how it is in the US but I assume there is always possibility of at least minimum lifesaving welfare) and do not pay anything into the budget.

The rule of thumb is that people who havent payed anything into the budget for a long time should not have the same deciding power about its usage than those who regularly pay into it.