Amazon packing after South Carolina tax vote

Amazon packing after South Carolina tax vote

www.mcclatchydc.com

Amazon all but told South Carolina goodbye Wednesday after the online retailer lost a legislative showdown on a sales tax collection exemption it wants to open a distribution center that would bring 1,249 jobs to the Midlands.

“As a result of today’s unfortunate House vote, we’ve canceled $52 million in procurement contracts and removed all South Carolina fulfillment center job postings from our (Web) site

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is a great little example for folks who think taxes are the solution to solving problems. Guess what? People and companies will do what they can to avoid them.

Here are 1000+ jobs lost in South Carolina because Amazon can get a better deal elsewhere. Other states are competing for the jobs, yet the politicans attempted to call Amazon's bluff here and lost. They will either capitulate or the jobs are gone. Amazon will finish building the center, mothball it, either waiting until they get a buyer or the tax environment in South Carolina improves.

This is what happens when there are low tax alternatives to people or countries. Its why folks are moving jobs out of high tax, high labor cost states and its also why jobs move over seas.

Freedom works both ways and folks are going to continue to vote with their feet on these tax issues.

Raising taxes sounds great. It sounds simple. It sounds fantastic until the ramifications of high tax rates become known

www.mcclatchydc.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Dolphin, you took the words right out of my mouth...Good post!

Good for South Carolina for standing up against bullying by corporations. If more legislators showed this kind of bravery, corporations would have no where to run and would be forced to work with the system, not to simply tell the system how it's going to be.

It's time to take control back from the corporations.
Edit to add: And it's past-time to introduce real import tariffs to prevent jobs from moving out of the country.

Enjoying the replies and thread so far, sadly i cannot reply to anyone in particular but you all of have more or less pointed out the obvious

Nice thread.

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Taxes are the reason your business isn't making enough money? I know they would contribute to the situation, but it sounds as though you feel they are the cause. Could you let us know what proportion of your business's income is paid in taxes? This would help the rest of us understand the problems you are experiencing.

Thanks

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Don't you?

I do.

What makes one company imagine they are exempt from taxes, that the next company has to pay?

Basically, what Amazon did was attempted/actual blackmail...give us tax breaks we don't deserve or we take our jobs elsewhere...that's blackmail, and i don't blame the state for sticking to their guns...what's good for one, is good for another in my book.

Besides, Amazon are the one's responsible for withdrawing 1300 jobs, not the state, so if you or anyone else want to blame anyone, blame them.

Well isn’t this just sad, another example of the state intervening and destroying the lives of workers. Every time the government gets involved people get hurt. We are in a serious unemployment crisis and the government of South Carolina decided to play a game with 1,249 jobs for people who desperately need it.

We are witnessing this all across the country, states which used to be major business hubs such as New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and California are hemorrhaging jobs to other states and countries. The blame does rest solely with the state government and the federal government. Not only have they chased the jobs out but the feds even give them money to leave, it’s called free-trade, where rich countries lose their industries and become consumer nations only.

If the state was truly worried about raising funds and helping its citizens then they would want to do anything to bring in as many jobs as possible. Look what our governor in Florida is doing, he has a plan to cut electric bill costs on businesses that decide to expand or relocate here. I think it’s great what he is doing but fear the costs could be transferred to the people.

My point is when you put taxes on businesses like Amazon they won’t go to your state, they will invest elsewhere, and take the jobs with them.

It's sad really.. When you have to blame the people who are paying the most taxes... A business like Amazon pays more money in taxes a year than you probably want to know... Actually I'm sure you could find out... Regardless of that...

I'm not going to break down how an economy works.... But I think Amazon did something here that people have been afraid of in the past.... It's just like the Tea Party coming up under Obama and fighting tax hikes. It's not needed... Especially now! With hyper inflation on the way... Amazon was looking out for its assets it's business; deal with it

reply to post by dolphinfan


Only because we dont make them pack all the way up and GTFO.

We have bargaining power too. We could make it very, very unreasonable for them to make any sales in the US at all. Which would not be a tragedy. Many of the smaller bookstores that these mega stores drove out of business could re-emerge and jobs could be distributed over a broader area, rather than concentrated in one clump in one state. Which would be great for everyone.

Originally posted by OhioPariah
Edit to add: And it's past-time to introduce real import tariffs to prevent jobs from moving out of the country.

I’ve been saying that forever! I’m glad to see it is not just me saying this anymore!

That is why we were the richest country on earth for over a century, because we had import tariffs to protect our domestic industries and reduce taxes on everything else in our life. That was the original tax collection appropriated to the government in the US Constitution, Article 1 Section 8. Sure they can ignore the original part of the constitution which allows them to collect taxes and defend our nation’s workers and industries in favor of the 16th amendment and the more devastating taxes.

But if they put in import tariffs then they would be protecting American workers, consumers, and businesses, not multinational banks and business, and it doesn’t help their one-world ideology.

The US should consider itself lucky it's just a state Amazon is bailing out of and not the nation entirely.

I could have more sympathy for the "blame the evil corporation" crowd if tax dollars were actually used wisely. Given the obscene amounts of waste all over the place that's been going on for decades I find it hard to believe there are still people around who still have this "love the gov" attitude.

When some mother stops supporting her crackhead clepto son are we supposed to jump down her throat for being cruel and mean?

The gov is a crackhead clepto. None of us should be enabling it. Not Amazon and not blue collar Bill bringing home $6/hour. None of us.

Originally posted by spikey

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Don't you?

I do.

What makes one company imagine they are exempt from taxes, that the next company has to pay?

Basically, what Amazon did was attempted/actual blackmail...give us tax breaks we don't deserve or we take our jobs elsewhere...that's blackmail, and i don't blame the state for sticking to their guns...what's good for one, is good for another in my book.

Besides, Amazon are the one's responsible for withdrawing 1300 jobs, not the state, so if you or anyone else want to blame anyone, blame them.


I dont see the blackmail, sorry. It sounds more like a leverage type of situation than anything.

Amazon says we want a flat tax of say 3% yearly to the state of SC because we CAN get that rate in other states.

SC comes back over the top and says in order to set up shop in the great state of SC you are going to have to pay5%.

Amazon say no thank you and goes to another state.

The scenario happens all the time. Take a look at why many major MFG's left the northern states for the southern states:

No union wages, lower state taxes=higher profit margains.

Corporate Greed-YES

Blackmail-NOPE

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
The US should consider itself lucky it's just a state Amazon is bailing out of and not the nation entirely.

I could have more sympathy for the "blame the evil corporation" crowd if tax dollars were actually used wisely. Given the obscene amounts of waste all over the place that's been going on for decades I find it hard to believe there are still people around who still have this "love the gov" attitude.

When some mother stops supporting her crackhead clepto son are we supposed to jump down her throat for being cruel and mean?

The gov is a crackhead clepto. None of us should be enabling it. Not Amazon and not blue collar Bill bringing home $6/hour. None of us.

that's kind of where I'm at with this.... The amount of money that the government is spending and then in turn giving it to people who don't work for it... Kind of ridiculous for companies to stick around here right now.... Look at what the EPA JUST did to Shell.....

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Taxes are the reason your business isn't making enough money? I know they would contribute to the situation, but it sounds as though you feel they are the cause. Could you let us know what proportion of your business's income is paid in taxes? This would help the rest of us understand the problems you are experiencing.

Thanks

I apologize for not being clear. Taxes are not the sole reason for the changes. They are a strong contributing factor to which the cumulative effect is making it hard to survive as a small manufacturer. I would be happy to get figures for you. I am more than willing to listen if you have any advice or suggestions.

Taxes being the latest thing on my mind, I immediately identified with the OP. I did not intend to mislead anyone.

Originally posted by celestialpink

Originally posted by Montana

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Taxes are the reason your business isn't making enough money? I know they would contribute to the situation, but it sounds as though you feel they are the cause. Could you let us know what proportion of your business's income is paid in taxes? This would help the rest of us understand the problems you are experiencing.

Thanks

I apologize for not being clear. Taxes are not the sole reason for the changes. They are a strong contributing factor to which the cumulative effect is making it hard to survive as a small manufacturer. I would be happy to get figures for you. I am more than willing to listen if you have any advice or suggestions.

Taxes being the latest thing on my mind, I immediately identified with the OP. I did not intend to mislead anyone.

I can't imagine what you have to go through to manufacturer in this county... I own my own business to and the regulations on me are incredible and I don't even work with manufacturing....

Originally posted by spikey

Originally posted by celestialpink
Isn't that the sad truth. The taxes in this country are not good incentives to start or keep a business here.

I own a small mfg business. After three years of production in the US, our options are either close shop, or manufacture overseas somewhere. We really tried, but even with sales increasing, it's still not making enought money to keep going at this pace.


Personally I think it's sad, businesswise I don't blame them.

Don't you?

I do.

What makes one company imagine they are exempt from taxes, that the next company has to pay?

Basically, what Amazon did was attempted/actual blackmail...give us tax breaks we don't deserve or we take our jobs elsewhere...that's blackmail, and i don't blame the state for sticking to their guns...what's good for one, is good for another in my book.

Besides, Amazon are the one's responsible for withdrawing 1300 jobs, not the state, so if you or anyone else want to blame anyone, blame them.

As a business, no I don't blame them. What is the end goal of a business? profits. (I do not always agree with how they achieve them - different topic) There is a difference between a business and a charity.

My feelings are that the tax environment should be conducive to attracting and keeping new businesses. Make your state or country an attractive place for businesses to live and grow = businesses will move there, bringing jobs etc.

Do I think that some companies should get unfair advantages? No, not really. I am dealing with things in this catagory myself. I think it should be a more fair playing field so that small businesses have a chance to flourish alongside the larger ones.

But Amazon is not "to blame" for anything. They are strictly making a competitive business decision.

Originally posted by Misoir

My point is when you put taxes on businesses like Amazon they won’t go to your state, they will invest elsewhere, and take the jobs with them.

Then we need to throw them out of the country altogether. We dont ransom hostages to terrorists. Why? Because we know that we will be incentivizing them to take more hostages.

Giving in to this kind of blackmail only ensures that more and more of it occurs until we are paying companies to "give" us jobs, turning the natural order on its head. So what if they pack their teddies and go home? Toss them all the way out. And more competitive small firms will arise to take their place.

Business should not be of the size to dictate to the consumers and their governments policy. Its in direct opposition to the free market capitalism. Its what is ruining this country, and we need to be the ones to reverse the trend. We created these mega corporations. We enabled their birth, and they need us more than we need them. We need to remember that. There are 1000 guys just dying to fill the void that would be created by making it impossible for them to do business in the US. And it would be better for the market place, and the consumer, to have more, and smaller, competitors.

I owned several small businesses/design/manufacturing. Taxes and regulations played no part in the reasons I shut the doors and laid off all my employees. Foreign competition and the dramatic increase in price of raw materials, kicked all the profit out of my products. I would rather shut the doors, take the hit and move on to plan B, than move my mfg. off shore.

Most big corps don't see it that way.