Spritual Bigotry on ATS

whatever the Vatican does is not your concern if you are not a Catholic.

actually it is. when the actions of any group or organization can and does
impact affairs throughout the known world it isor should be the concern of all
who live in that world. and it was after all papal actions that started the crusades and the inquisition.


as to the original post, perhaps the animosity towards "main stream" christianity
from non-christians or other than main stream christians should be laid at the
feet of people like , Bill Schnoebelen, David Brown ,Eric Pryor,Jack Chick, and
those others like them that purport to be the "voice of the true path".

Regardless of relgious affiliation or lack thereof, there should be a certain level of respect when it comes to our posts. We should attempt to choose our words based on the poster we are responding to.

For instance, if someone makes a comment like "god hates all gays and they just need to get over it" I'm going to respond more strongly than say to someone who poses a question about whether Paul was gay.

If a question or comment is presented to the Board - the poster should expect (and want) a diverse set of opinions. The tone of those opinions should be set by the post itself.

An fundamentalist christian president commits the US to war/crusade based on his conversations with God. The attorney general selectively enforces the law based on his fundamentalist christianity. Congress persons vote for against laws based on fundamentalist christianity. Various politicians demonize all muslims based on the acts of a few muslims.

The catholic church pushes legislation based on its interpretation of the bible. It directs priests to take punitive actions against politicial leaders. The courts give preferential treatment to child molesting priests and hides evidence with no consequences.

When religion step from the spiritual to the secular, it gets what it deserves and rightly so.
.

Originally posted by mwm1331

In several posts recently members of this board have made broad genaralised statements about christians which are both insulting and incorrect. While my skn is thck enough to shrug these insults off, I wonder why this attitude is considered acceptable when the same staements, if said in reference to blacks jews muslims arabs or any other social grouping, would be considered bigotry. Christians have been characterised as stupid, evil, bigoted, opressive and violent by several posters in several threads. were I to say the same about anyother religous group or social group I would be labeled a bigot. Why the double standard? Though I recognise the vast majority of posters on ATS are athiests I fail to see the reason for the venom, and vitriol. So tell me why do those of you who do hate christians?

two wrongs don't make a right mwm1331


[edit on 1-8-2004 by iamthemissinglink]

[edit on 1-8-2004 by iamthemissinglink]

Since I have been here, I have seen time and time again, people post things similar to,
"where's your proof" or "Can you prove that" whenever someone post something with an attitude of assuredness.....it's no different in relation to spirituality...you simple can't state something as if it is the all dying truth because no one can "prove" one religion is any more true than another, or that the Bible, Koran, or any other is indeed the words of any God.....if it is written that way, expect to have someone call you on it....

Religion wouldnt be a bad thing if it wasnt for it's extremists and Leaders.

The leaders of religions in general, not just Catholicism, often get corrupt from its power and use it for their own political, manipulative, and in some cases, evil purposes. Whether most religious people would rather not here it or not, this is a website for free speech, intellegent discussions, all under the fact of Denying Ignorance. You can't deny that the Vatican has manipulated and controlled many religions (if they didn't, why do you think the seperation of church and state was made in the US?), or also that many wars, some of the most bloodiest ones in history, were because of religious beliefs (The three cruscades, many Middle East Conflicts, World War II etc)

But this aside, I dont think throwing cheap shots like "god suxs" or something is right. But in the context of people being mad that some people are saying that religious leaders of manipulative, and wars are caused often by religious beliefs, you have to face the facts, and also accept that not everybody has the same beliefs as you. This doesn't make it religious bigotry, not at the slightest. Maybe its just me, but it's funny that you can have Christians flaunting their beliefs everywhere and proclaiming it, trying to convert people, and telling people that they will burn in some hellish place if they dont convert, but when somebody rebuttles it, they get all mad.

LadyV,

Right on the point, lady, that is the reason why religious threads attract so many post and in some instances they can become quite heated, but also I have seen some of them becoming very educational about the history of religion in the world.

One of the reason for the bashing is that like you said religion can be prove on the bases of historical facts but the spiritual part of it can not be proved and other threads like that are the paranormal and ufo sightings you can be a believer but to prove what your believe or has seen is not reliable because the personal interpretations are mingle with emotions.

Originally posted by marg6043
LadyV,

One of the reason for the bashing is that like you said religion can be prove on the bases of historical facts but the spiritual part of it can not be proved and other threads like that are the paranormal and ufo sightings you can be a believer but to prove what your believe or has seen is not reliable because the personal interpretations are mingle with emotions.

K - Whatever the reason (is that really one of them?) does that justify bashing? Hey, your words, not mine.

Anyway, I think a lot of people here are missing the point of the initial post. The bias comes out all over the boards, and is seen more often than not starting with someone who disdains religion bringing up a criticism of one.

There are obviously serious differences of opinion at ATS. That's what makes it interesting. But a little respect would take the threads a lot farther.

Relentless,

And you still don't get it, but I don't blame you the beauty of ATS is that we are of diferent oppinions if we all have the same way of thinking we will become bored of this site.

And by the way has you ever seen a warning flag on my avatar? No? that is because even when I may disagree with others I do not go name calling I have learn to control my puertorrican temper after working with teenagers.

[edit on 1-8-2004 by marg6043]

1. I am a Christian no matter how people are against it on ATS/not on ATS.

2. People in history did all sorts of crap in the name of all sorts of Gods (most of the time in the own name) so using retarded "Christians" and their actions to bash Christianity is silly and I stopped replying to those posts.

3. I have seen proof in my life, that I have found to be enough to base my faith on. Sharing this proof with those that do not have the intention to be informed by it, but just want to bash it and make it look stupid, is something I stopped doing a long time ago.

4. People that enjoy bashing Christianity in general, only make me stronger in faith, making me wonder what their true motives are.
I'm quite sure it's not that they want to enlight the christians.

Concerning the topic at hand:
When faced with something man does not understand and cannot accept, man tends to have an emotional response to that something. That response is the basis of conflict. The nature of man concering conflict is "Flight or Fight". Flight is simple- they avoid the conflict. Fight is not so simple, as there two methods of fighting. Opposing the "something" that created the emotional response, or opposing the emotional response. One leads to the escalation of conflict, the other leads to understanding.

A bit off topic:

Originally posted by WolfofWar
... Denying Ignorance. You can't deny that the Vatican has manipulated and controlled many religions (if they didn't, why do you think the seperation of church and state was made in the US...

I just thought I would point out it this was not due the intolerance of the Vatican. It was the intolerance of the Church of England.

Beyond that though, the founding fathers realized one fundimental aspect of the teachings of the bible. Love is not intolerant.

Seperation of church and state was not made inspite of the belief in God, but because of the belief in God.

Some quotes that may aid in understanding this:

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
Patrick Henry

"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
James Madison

.

Originally posted by Jakko
1. I am a Christian no matter how people are against it on ATS/not on ATS.

2. People in history did all sorts of crap in the name of all sorts of Gods (most of the time in the own name) so using retarded "Christians" and their actions to bash Christianity is silly and I stopped replying to those posts.

3. I have seen proof in my life, that I have found to be enough to base my faith on. Sharing this proof with those that do not have the intention to be informed by it, but just want to bash it and make it look stupid, is something I stopped doing a long time ago.

4. People that enjoy bashing Christianity in general, only make me stronger in faith, making me wonder what their true motives are.
I'm quite sure it's not that they want to enlight the christians.

1) I am the same with my own religion...and you'd never manage under the bashing we get
2) More people have died, wars fought...over the Christian religion than most others
3) Ditto, with my religion..." I have seen proof in my life, that I have found to be enough to base my faith on. Sharing this proof with those that do not have the intention to be informed by it, but just want to bash it and make it look stupid, is something I stopped doing a long time ago".
4) Nothing unique here either....that tends to work with most religions!
So, to all four points...

i feel for you my brottha

while i have a feeling you may be refering to me i just wanna say just go with it. f@#$ double standards. they dont exist. its all in your head. rip the system. eat cheesy poofs.

I feel some of you may have msunderstood my point. While I have no problems with criticism of certain members of christianity (such as falwell) criticism of the religon itself, or people saying tht I have no proof of my beliefs (after all thats why its called having faith) I'm am referring more to intentionally offensive statements which portrat all christians as ignorant, evil, opressive etc. For example

These people don't know the meaning of self-sacrifice. They are really just religious dogs, barking and yapping and trying to herd and force and intimidate other people.

Go home religious dogs, to your master.

or this

The religious moralists have always been willinging to impose their beliefs of that which can only be proved through faith on those of us whose brain activity functions at a slightly higher level .

That my faith is not the faith of all people I understand, that some people have no faith I recognise though I dont understand, but why resort to name calling and generalisations? Why say that christians brains function at a lower level not only is it offensive but its not true. Now If I or anyone else were to post that "all muslims are terrorists and barbarians" the board would be in an uproar but if the exact same sentiment was posted substituing christian for muslim it would no raise an eyebrow. Why is this is what I am asking.

Originally posted by LadyV
2) More people have died, wars fought...over the Christian religion than most others

Ignorant nonsense.
Many people have died, many wars fought, in a time where Christianity was one of the biggest religions, and also in times where other religions were bigger. If people would not have had Christianity, they would have used some other religion to justify their sick ideas and actions.
The bible is pretty clear through the example set by Jesus, there is no excuse for any violence in the bible.

Jakko,

LadyV is not lieying about the the wars in the name of religion you better look around the world today and take a look at what is going on even today is war or somebody kill around the world because of religious beliefs.

Religion in creating much spiritual dogmas, has also created much hatred and segregation amongst humanity. We live in a world where religious bias can mean life and death given the time and day, we live in a world where one truely believes that all hope lays in prophets of long whose words represented a time surpressed by many econimic, financial and spiritual restraints, we live in a world where one would kill for ones religion no matter the ramnifaction.

Religion must be put to rest I say.

Deep

there is no excuse for any violence in the bible.

You have got to be kidding me!

Many people have died, many wars fought, in a time where Christianity was one of the biggest religions, and also in times where other religions were bigger. If people would not have had Christianity, they would have used some other religion to justify their sick ideas and actions.

That's an incoherent deduction, on cannot conclude such a statment without understanding other religions and circumstance. Christianity grew in a dire time of greed and hubris, violence and repression swelled in the blood of its fathers, who passed it down to thier children. Christianity has does great evil, now its time for it to go to heaven.

Deep

Originally posted by LadyV

there is no excuse for any violence in the bible.

You have got to be kidding me!

Many people read the bible as one set of rules and examples, when it's actually pretty clear what parts are ment to be objective/historical and what parts are ment as examples and rules.
The life of Jesus, God becoming human and living among us, is the one true example God gave us. Any violence or war can not be justified if you use Jesus and His teachings as your example.

I am aware of the many many religious wars and fights in this world, but it's so ignorant to blame Christianity for the retarded things mankind did.
There are numerous examples of groups who still abuse the bible for their ignorant and often selfish goals. The KKK is just a well-known example.