Spritual Bigotry on ATS

You cannot make a point to us by quoting parts of the bible, or telling us the bibles message.......once again, because you think it's all hard fact, doesn't make it so anymore than someone telling you their beliefs on UFO's, no matter how they strongly they believe it, makes it so...

Originally posted by df1
The catholic church pushes legislation based on its interpretation of the bible. It directs priests to take punitive actions against politicial leaders. The courts give preferential treatment to child molesting priests and hides evidence with no consequences.

When religion step from the spiritual to the secular, it gets what it deserves and rightly so.

********************************************

Which legislation are your referring to? What 'preferential treatment' was given to priest child molesters over other child molesters? What court hide the evidence and had no consequences? I have never heard of any of this.

OF COURSE the Catholic church is supposed to take action against pro-abortion politicians. It is supposed to take action against ALL Catholics who are pro-abortion. To let Catholic politicians slide simply because they make a living at being a politician instead of some other walk of life would be wrong. It is the job of the church to tell Catholics when they are straying off the Catholic path. IT'S THE JOB OF THE PRIEST to explain why the politician, or anyone else for that matter, is outside of Catholic teaching and what the consequences will be.

John Kerry is not Catholic. He has excommunicated himself by his actions and his words. He is unrepentant about abortion and speaks out in favor of it. THis is OUTSIDE of Catholic teaching and therefore he has done it to himself. He is free to worship in God's house with the rest of us, but he should not be receiving holy communion because he is not in communion with the church. It's very simple.

Also, ANY Catholic who votes for John Kerry is guilty of assisted murder. They are just as culpable for putting John Kerry in office as John Kerry himself is culpable. It's proper theology.

And it's the job of the church to tell you how to be a good Catholic in the secular world, not just in Church on Sundays. There is no way to seperate spiritual behavior from the secular part of your life. You are a Catholic in all areas. That's how it is supposed to be.

Your insinuation that Catholics have it coming because we don't leave religion in the church on daily secular matters is ridiculous.

Catholicism is a way of life. John Kerry should either act like a Catholic or
get out of the church.

catholicsagainstkerry.com...








[edit on 8/2/2004 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by LadyV

there is no excuse for any violence in the bible.

You have got to be kidding me!

Thanks LadyV.

Some do not see the violence that the bible is full of,

Second Chronicles 20:24. landscape strewn with corpses

Zeph. 1:17. Blood, as Zephaniah says, that will pour out like dust

Ps. 68:23 Blood, as the Psalmist says, that the dogs will lap up.

Gen 4:8. the death of Abel

Gen. 19:24. Sodom and Gomorrah, brinstone and fire

Jesus Christ, God's own son the ultimate act of violence.

And then we wonder about why are so much violence in the world?

Perhaps because is justify.

Being anti-Catholic or bashing the Catholic church is in vogue.
It's also amazing at the 'facts' that anti-Catholic posters use
that are wrong. (Catholics worship Mary, Catholics don't read
the bible, Catholics do this ... Catholics do that)

I find this on almost every board I've been
to. It still amazes me that there are people that still think
like they do. Sad ... really.

Those quotes can taken out of context Marge, but I do agree, the Bible is full of much violence and turmoil. God seems to be ' confused ' as time progresses on how to treat humanity and his followers. The Bible is fataly flawed and its literality has caused the fetor of intellectualy decay amongst society. Most of our greatest philosophers wrote out against church authority and its transcendent ideals.

Deep

The Catholic Church has always been suspect and always will, this has been made quite evident in recent years. The Papacy is lost, the doctrine holding on with dear breath and its followers, well, confused and tortured soils bleeding revelations to make ends meet. The donation of Constantine, should be token to the Churches 'pious' ideals.

Deep

FlyersFan,

I agree with some of your statements, but on the other hand I see the church ordering their clergy to punish others like some type of God version for the beliefs of others, like it use to do during the church strong hold years of the dark ages.

In order for the church to regain respect it has to come out of these years of old power experience modern times if it wants to atrack younger audiences and keep the older.

The church can not punish anymore with their banning of the church communion people just go on and become protestant and worship the same god without the consequences.

sorry for the mispelling.


[edit on 2-8-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
The church can not punish anymore with their banning of the church communion people just go on and become protestant and worship the same god without the consequences.

They are free to leave. Everyone knows where the door is. If people
don't agree with the Catholic church's teachings ... then they should
get out and leave the rest of us in peace.

It is the Churchs JOB to tell people when they are outside of communion
with the church. No amount of bellyacheing from the secular humanists
will change that. Those who are outside of communion with the church
should #1 - try to understand why #2 either accept it and change
or LEAVE. John Kerry should LEAVE. He doesn't believe what the
Catholic church teaches, yet he goes and whines about how it is run.

The Catholic church is not a democracy. It is run from the top down.
Jesus didn't get the apostles together and say ... hey, what do the
people believe this week, that's what I'll preach. He taught the
Apostles, the Apostles taught the people and the people changed
their lives accordingly. It wasn't the people saying 'This week
I think it's like this' and Jesus accomodated them.

People want to leave and worship God in other churches without
the 'consequences' ... fine. Great. Go. But easier doesn't equate
to better or more truthful.

Groupies:

If you're a "Christian" and have ever read any of the AMADEUS posts you might get your feathers a little ruffled, because I deliberately use some harshly worded language at times "to wake people up" to certain truths in my message and in order to get people to look deeper into their religion, especially Christians and Jews who are notoriously ignorant of the pagan underpinnings to 90% of their "belief system".

But I certainly don't hate Christians: I merely hate their ignorance of the original language and meaning of the Christian message which the vast majority of them don't even bother to learn to read for themselves, yet pontificate on matters which they do not fully understand.

What surprises me is that less than 1% of bible believing crowd do not own a Greek New Testament or even a copy of the Masoretic Text of the Old Testament, and very very few even know that there are literally thousands of differences in all the manuscript families of their "bibles" (e.g. for the "old Testament" there are substantial differences in the texts and language between the Samaritan Pentateuch, the Masoretic, the Vorlage to the LXX, the Dead Sea Scroll Families, the Pe#ta, and the targums, yet even "Jews" are never taught by the Rebbes that this is the case...).

And even fewer know the highly political processes at the councils (between AD 315 and AD 560) by which all the various books of the "bible" were literally "voted into" the different versions used by different groups all calling themselves "Christians"...

So if I'm a little provocative on these posts, it's only to get people to get off their "lazy Chrsitian ass" and look up some of the evidence for themselves and try and refute what I have to say. Obvsiously they will not be able to offer too many counter arguments, but it is the PROCESS that it is important...it might open a few very closed eyes...

And Christians in general (and Jews for that matter) are notoriously close minded about "contrary opinions" about their respective "religions" and unwilling for the most part to engage in a healthy debate before all the name calling begins....

But we live in hope...

The reason of people not owning other versions of the bible is because US has his own American version made only for the American reader.

Originally posted by marg6043
Thanks LadyV.
Some do not see the violence that the bible is full of,
Second Chronicles 20:24. landscape strewn with corpses
Zeph. 1:17. Blood, as Zephaniah says, that will pour out like dust
Ps. 68:23 Blood, as the Psalmist says, that the dogs will lap up.
Gen 4:8. the death of Abel
Gen. 19:24. Sodom and Gomorrah, brinstone and fire
Jesus Christ, God's own son the ultimate act of violence.
And then we wonder about why are so much violence in the world?
Perhaps because is justify.

Let me once again make clear what I mean.
Humans are monsters sometimes. With or without religion, people always seem to find motives to smash eachothers head in and do the most awefull things. As the bible is partly an objective historical book, it also tells us about violence, destruction and punishment that sinners in the OT faced.
The death of Abel shows us that it is wrong to kill someone, how can such a text inspire any sane human being to do the same?

You seem to enjoy browsing through the bible, lookingh for the words "blood, murder, kill" and then throw it on ATS to support your ignorant point. It wouldn't hurt you to at least attempt to understand all the things you paste, and see how they fit in what you're trying to say.
Right now most of your postings about the bible are a joke.

Originally posted by Amadeus
And Christians in general (and Jews for that matter) are notoriously close minded about "contrary opinions" about their respective "religions" and unwilling for the most part to engage in a healthy debate before all the name calling begins....

Generalising like this is wrong.
Contrary opinions are fine, but if you have to argue with people who made ripping bible verses out of their context a hobby, you'll stump upon so much ignorance that it almost makes you want to start calling names.

It's the whole attititude in which we enter this discussion.
Do we want to learn from eachother? Or at least understand eachother better?
Or do we want to to publicly trash other peoples viewpoints with all tricks and ignorance we have?

No Jakko they are not a jokes, but I do regard the bible as such do to the fact that it was written by men like you and others with strong feelings and human traits given to bias and sentimentalism.

I, by the way know more of the bible than you think since I was force to read it during my childhood for being to opinionated, whenever I challenged it what I read my father will tell me that the word of god was not to be challenge I do love my father dear and he preaches but I used to tell him that the bible was not written by god but for men and by men, at that he will not said anything but just encouraged me to pray and pray I did in the catholic ways for my mother and in my father Adventist way.

You call me ignorant well very nicely I will tell not I am not. Just oppinionated


[edit on 2-8-2004 by marg6043]

I do believe that people on ATS are particularly harsh on Christians. But I think its because its the one religion they actually have an inkling about. I posted two threads about eastern religion yesterday the first on "shaktipat" and the second on "enlightenment" - with the exception on Zerodeep I received no real interest. I believe mostlyt because people know so little about it.

The other issue is the one about Amadeus and his rather unusual postings - I would really like to see some links of "credible" sites in relation to "Jeezuzzz' - I have never seen such a name in any writings and especially not in any biblical texts. I do believe we can all fabricate our own reality, but we have no right to impose it on others.

The name AMADEUS is an imperative to Love God. Who is the God you love? And what does he stand for? The only postings I have seen from you have been about debunking the bible.

Namaste

Originally posted by marg6043
I, by the way know more of the bible than you think since I was force to read it during my childhood for being to opinionated, whenever I challenged it what I read my father will tell me that the word of god was not to be challenge I do love my father dear and he preaches but I used to tell him that the bible was not written by god but for men and by men, at that he will not said anything but just encouraged me to pray and pray I did in the catholic ways for my mother and in my father Adventist way.

Such a childhood does a lot of damage and twists your view on the bible and Christianity. People succeeded in laying it aside though, I suggest you look at your postings in an objective way.

You call me ignorant well very nicely I will tell not I am not. Just oppinionated

It is ignorant to use "Gen 4:8. the death of Abel" against me when I say the bible does not justify violence.
Did you even read this story?

Jakko I read the bible not as a sort of beliefs but as a nice and somewhat scary story of myth and make believes and my father even got us a 12 set of the bible just by children with beautiful pictures, call the bible stories.

Now depending of your personal beliefs you will interpret the bible the way you will to fit yourself the bible is like one size that fits all and when people disagree with it they just come out with their own versions of it.

i come off as someone who hates christians, but in reality i just have a problem with ignorance and i'm trying to help them question what they believe in and hopefully lead them to enlightenment.

This is really pushing the def of conspiracy. Because I didn't catch it until much discussion had altready been made about it and some conspiracies were touched upon, it stays. Please, read the intro thread before posting in this forum. Thanks.

Actually astrocreep I had originlly posted this on political mudpit, (as it seems to me that bigotry regardless of the target is a political issue) but one of your collegues moved it, I didnt mind enough to argue and I could see his point.
However this discussion has strayed from my original question a bit. Whether you are a christian or not, believe christians are deluded or not, believe in any god or not is not the point. My question was why do people here feel it is wrong to be bigoted against muslims, gays, blacks or any other social, religous, or racial group but that the same type of comments, prejudices, and slurs against christians is O.K.?
If someone here said "all homosexuals are disgusting evil people" the flames would pour down like the wrath of god (pun intended) But if someone says "christians are disgusting evil people" then the response if any is muted. Why is this. Shouldnt bigotry against any group be wrong? Or is it the consensus of this forum that only bigotry against minorities is wrong?

Speaking only for myself and NOT the consensus of ATS, i oppose all bigotry, but i am also intelligent enough to realize that these discussions and arguements and obvious bigotry must be allowed to be in the open in order to ever overcome them.

The only problem i have noticed with Christian bigotry is that problem usually stems from a Christian's self-righteousness and bigotry against any who doesn't follow the word of god according to them...they may or may not mean it, but i have noticed it usually a Christian who will rush to condemn others to the depths of hell for not accepting their beliefs. this type of mentality and use of it in conversations usually lead to "non believers" becoming defensive and showing their form of bigotry onto the Christian.


[edit on 8-2-2004 by worldwatcher]