It was the machines that voted for him then? It surely wasn't the PEOPLE of florida!!
And I tought he had CHEATED! DOH!
POLITICS: Serious Problems with Electronic Voting Machines in Florida, page 1
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Topic started on 28-7-2004 @ 02:51 AM by donguillermo
The lead of this New York Times story is that electronic records of the 2002 gubernatorial primary have been lost. But the story also includes
evidence of serious malfunctions of the electronic voting machines.
www.nytimes.com
After the 2002 primary, between Democratic candidates Janet Reno and Bill McBride, the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida conducted a study that found that 8 percent of votes, or 1,544, were lost on touch-screen machines in 31 precincts in Miami-Dade County. The group considered that rate of what it called "lost votes" unusually high.
Voting problems plagued Miami-Dade and Broward Counties on that day, when touch-screen machines took much longer than expected to boot up, dozens of polling places opened late and poorly trained poll workers turned on and shut down the machines incorrectly. A final vote tally - which narrowed the margin first reported between the two candidates by more than 3,000 votes - was delayed for a week.
But The Sun-Sentinel of Fort Lauderdale, in a recent analysis of the March presidential primary, reported that voters in counties using touch-screen machines were six times as likely to record no vote as were voters in counties using optical-scan machines, which read markings on paper ballots.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
1,544 votes lost in 31 precincts in Florida, where George Bush won the Presidential Election by 537 votes!
There have been numerous malfunctions of electronic voting machines reported around the country. The obvious solution is to have a hard-copy printout that each voter can inspect to verify that his vote has been properly recorded. Such a printout can also be used for audits and recounts.
In Nevada, where I live, state law has required for ten years that electronic voting machines have a hard-copy paper trail. Yet the machines we will be voting on in November are not equipped with printers. See the ATS thread below for further details.
Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Vin Suprynowicz on Electronic Voting Machines
[edit on 28-7-2004 by Zion Mainframe]
www.nytimes.com
After the 2002 primary, between Democratic candidates Janet Reno and Bill McBride, the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida conducted a study that found that 8 percent of votes, or 1,544, were lost on touch-screen machines in 31 precincts in Miami-Dade County. The group considered that rate of what it called "lost votes" unusually high.
Voting problems plagued Miami-Dade and Broward Counties on that day, when touch-screen machines took much longer than expected to boot up, dozens of polling places opened late and poorly trained poll workers turned on and shut down the machines incorrectly. A final vote tally - which narrowed the margin first reported between the two candidates by more than 3,000 votes - was delayed for a week.
But The Sun-Sentinel of Fort Lauderdale, in a recent analysis of the March presidential primary, reported that voters in counties using touch-screen machines were six times as likely to record no vote as were voters in counties using optical-scan machines, which read markings on paper ballots.
Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
1,544 votes lost in 31 precincts in Florida, where George Bush won the Presidential Election by 537 votes!
There have been numerous malfunctions of electronic voting machines reported around the country. The obvious solution is to have a hard-copy printout that each voter can inspect to verify that his vote has been properly recorded. Such a printout can also be used for audits and recounts.
In Nevada, where I live, state law has required for ten years that electronic voting machines have a hard-copy paper trail. Yet the machines we will be voting on in November are not equipped with printers. See the ATS thread below for further details.
Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Vin Suprynowicz on Electronic Voting Machines
[edit on 28-7-2004 by Zion Mainframe]
reply posted on 28-7-2004 @ 09:25 AM by worldwatcher
I mentioned the problems that Florida has been facing earlier this month now and only Nerdling seemed to have noticed, before my thread got lost in
the mayhem of ATS.
If you don't think Florida will be spotlighted again in this upcoming election, I suggest you read this
Will Florida be the Focus of Elections Again?
[edit on 7-28-2004 by worldwatcher]
If you don't think Florida will be spotlighted again in this upcoming election, I suggest you read this
Will Florida be the Focus of Elections Again?
[edit on 7-28-2004 by worldwatcher]
reply posted on 28-7-2004 @ 09:30 AM by EastCoastKid
There is no way I would trust those machines and there is no way I would trust Jeb Bush. He has nothing but contempt for the Democratic process.
Fear of Fraud
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times
Tuesday 27 July 1004
It's election night, and early returns suggest trouble for the incumbent. Then, mysteriously, the vote count stops and observers from the challenger's campaign see employees of a voting-machine company, one wearing a badge that identifies him as a county official, typing instructions at computers with access to the vote-tabulating software.
When the count resumes, the incumbent pulls ahead. The challenger demands an investigation. But there are no ballots to recount, and election officials allied with the incumbent refuse to release data that could shed light on whether there was tampering with the electronic records.
This isn't a paranoid fantasy. It's a true account of a recent election in Riverside County, Calif., reported by Andrew Gumbel of the British newspaper The Independent. Mr. Gumbel's full-length report, printed in Los Angeles City Beat, makes hair-raising reading not just because it reinforces concerns about touch-screen voting, but also because it shows how easily officials can stonewall after a suspect election.
www.truthout.org...
And this:
Bush Takes Back Good Move on Voting
Pensacola News Journal
Tuesday 27 July 2004
We were premature in praising Gov. Jeb Bush for taking the high road in the matter of restoring voting rights for felons who have served their sentences and been released from prison.
No doubt it's our fault for underestimating the politics involved. And for thinking that the embarrassing hash the state had made of its efforts to purge the rolls of ineligible voters had shamed the governor into seeking a good-faith fix.
Now it looks as if the governor simply sees political benefit in keeping people off the voting rolls.
It's almost as if the governor takes delight in showing his contempt for a political system based on a non-partisan respect for voting rights, the very essence of our system. Just when it looked as if he was stepping up to do the right thing, he showed partisanship more apt for an old-fashioned ward heeler than the governor of Florida.
www.pensacolanewsjournal.com... 45AB-0C86-4825-A802-AEAD9001496B.shtml
[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]
Fear of Fraud
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times
Tuesday 27 July 1004
It's election night, and early returns suggest trouble for the incumbent. Then, mysteriously, the vote count stops and observers from the challenger's campaign see employees of a voting-machine company, one wearing a badge that identifies him as a county official, typing instructions at computers with access to the vote-tabulating software.
When the count resumes, the incumbent pulls ahead. The challenger demands an investigation. But there are no ballots to recount, and election officials allied with the incumbent refuse to release data that could shed light on whether there was tampering with the electronic records.
This isn't a paranoid fantasy. It's a true account of a recent election in Riverside County, Calif., reported by Andrew Gumbel of the British newspaper The Independent. Mr. Gumbel's full-length report, printed in Los Angeles City Beat, makes hair-raising reading not just because it reinforces concerns about touch-screen voting, but also because it shows how easily officials can stonewall after a suspect election.
www.truthout.org...
And this:
Bush Takes Back Good Move on Voting
Pensacola News Journal
Tuesday 27 July 2004
We were premature in praising Gov. Jeb Bush for taking the high road in the matter of restoring voting rights for felons who have served their sentences and been released from prison.
No doubt it's our fault for underestimating the politics involved. And for thinking that the embarrassing hash the state had made of its efforts to purge the rolls of ineligible voters had shamed the governor into seeking a good-faith fix.
Now it looks as if the governor simply sees political benefit in keeping people off the voting rolls.
It's almost as if the governor takes delight in showing his contempt for a political system based on a non-partisan respect for voting rights, the very essence of our system. Just when it looked as if he was stepping up to do the right thing, he showed partisanship more apt for an old-fashioned ward heeler than the governor of Florida.
www.pensacolanewsjournal.com... 45AB-0C86-4825-A802-AEAD9001496B.shtml
[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]
reply posted on 28-7-2004 @ 07:06 PM by donguillermo
Muaddib, this is not just a matter of senior citizens not being computer savvy. You fail to address the fact, as mentioned in my post, that large
numbers of votes just disappear. I believe there was also a recent case in California where more votes were recorded in a precinct than there were
registered voters in the precinct. You also do not address the lack of printers for hard-copy printouts in places like Nevada, where state law has
required a hard-copy paper trail for ten years.
Finally, you also do not address some of the issues raised in my related post, Vin Suprynowicz on Electronic Voting Machines. The fact that top management of all three major electronic voting companies have close ties to the Republican Party. The fact that after major upsets in Georgia elections, Diebold software was found on a server in a folder named rob-georgia.zip. The fact that the CEO of Diebold has said he will do everything possible to make sure Bush wins in Ohio.
As I said previously,
I know you have conservative political views. Your post gives me the impression that you don't think there is a serious problem with possible fraud and election stealing by means of electronic voting machines.
[edit on 7/28/2004 by donguillermo]
Finally, you also do not address some of the issues raised in my related post, Vin Suprynowicz on Electronic Voting Machines. The fact that top management of all three major electronic voting companies have close ties to the Republican Party. The fact that after major upsets in Georgia elections, Diebold software was found on a server in a folder named rob-georgia.zip. The fact that the CEO of Diebold has said he will do everything possible to make sure Bush wins in Ohio.
As I said previously,
Why is it that most of the people concerned with electronic voting machine fraud are Democrats? Maybe it's because the Republican Party has close ties to the top management of the three major electronic voting companies -- Diebold, Sequoia Pacific, and Elections Systems and Software.
There have been many documented cases of electronic voting machine malfunctions in several states. Millions of votes are going to be cast in November on machines which provide no hard-copy printout, therefore no capability for audit or recount.
Yet it seems only Democrats are concerned about this problem. The Republicans seem to be laughing and saying, "Hey, no problem." I think the fix is in, and this election is going to be stolen by Bush and the Republicans in a way that will be untraceable.
I know you have conservative political views. Your post gives me the impression that you don't think there is a serious problem with possible fraud and election stealing by means of electronic voting machines.
[edit on 7/28/2004 by donguillermo]
reply posted on 28-7-2004 @ 08:42 PM by donguillermo
Originally posted by Muaddib
Republicans laughing about this? ....ok....whatever you say....and contrary to what you may think if a voter uses the e-voting machine incorrectly the vote will not appear, because it was "incorrect." I have voted and seen the problems some seniors, and other not so old people, have with this kind of machines. Heck, i have seen people not being able to use a touch-screen copier not knowing what to do and touching everything in the screen. You do that to an e-voting machine and it will not record the vote.
This is precisely why we need hard-copy printouts so the voter knows his vote has been properly recorded.
BTW...are we going back to the 2000 election "controversy" again?...get over it people, Bush won.
No, we are not going to rehash the 2000 election. I merely alluded to it in reference to the number of votes lost in 31 precincts versus Bush's victory margin in Florida.
Can we also see links to those close ties you were talking about?
Sure. Here's one for Diebold and ES&S.
Diebold's Political Machine
Here's another one on Diebold and ES&S, with Sequoia's involvement in a massive bribery scam.
Fixed or Murky?
If you don't like these links, you can find plenty more with Google. I haven't been able to find a specific link of Sequoia Pacific to Republicans, so maybe they are just corrupt, not Republican.
JFYI, I can link and post information that communist countries like China, North Korea and including terrorists endorse Kerry, and even thou there is probably some truth in these reports, the bias stops me from actually posting them on ATSNN or ATS.
WTF do China and North Korea have to do with anything??? The fact that you throw in a complete non sequitur like this is further evidence to me that you don't think this is a serious problem because people of your political persuasion control the electronic voting machine companies. These companies build the hardware and software for these machines, and supply technical and operational support. Last I heard, China and North Korea are not building voting machines. Nice try to change the subject.
Meanwhile, you didn't address some of the points I addressed to you in my last post. But don't bother unless you are willing to seriously address the possibility of election fraud and election stealing.
[edit on 7/28/2004 by donguillermo]
[edit on 7/28/2004 by donguillermo]
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