The creation of The State Of Palestine

Israel is in total panic mode! It is a forgone conclusion the UN will vote to establish a Palestinian state in September. 131 countries already recognize a Palestine on the 1967 lines. Once the UN makes it official Israel will only be legitimate within those lines. It wouldn't matter much what Israel does after that as a UN border force will likely be in place to insure Israels security. Of course since Israel doesn't believe a UN force will protect them they are welcome to put their own border force on their side of the border if they wish. You know, like ALL other countries do.

The settlers will be a problem but thats Israels problem. They created the problem, let them solve it. Many settlers may elect to stay in the new Palestine which the PA has already said would be fine with them. Israel has Arab 2nd class citizens so Palestine will have Jewish 2nd class citizens.

Perhaps Israel will continue to occupy The new state which will result in sanctions. Something Israel can ill afford.

Once the borders are set I suspect Israel will be MORE then willing to negotiate the many other issues like water. The difference is they will be negotiating with another STATE and will be unable to dictate terms.

NOW, wouldn't it be better for Israel to freeze settlements and enter into negotiations before the moment is lost forever? Your move Netanyahu!
Gaza will not be part of the new state but will have the option to join in the future.

reply to post by gem_man


Isreal is not sweating anything.
All is going according to their plan, we just do not see the full picture yet.
You'll see.

reply to post by gem_man

“NOW, wouldn't it be better for Israel to freeze settlements and enter into negotiations before the moment is lost forever? Your move Netanyahu!”

You're right. Why don't they?
Oh wait a minute... they did freeze settlements for nine months, during which Abu Mazzen refused to enter negotiations. At the end of that nine months settlements freeze, Abu Mazzen threatened that Israel must freeze settlements or else...there would be no negotiations.
Ok, yeah, that's logical. Blame Israel.

Seems we are forgetting about the Amairican veto in all of this UN talk

Here is a possibility to consider. The Egyptians have been stirred as we have seen. Syria has also been in the mix. These verses have not been fulfilled so it is likely we are gearing up to witness this event. The end of this prophecy is particularly interesting. With Israel finding new gas and shale oil deposits recently, they will be attractive trade partners in the region. The monument to the lord at the end of the chapter is the pyramids. Would it be interesting if something was found there that turns the hearts of the people back to God? Something to think about anyway.

Isaiah 19

2 “I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian—
brother will fight against brother,
neighbor against neighbor,
city against city,
kingdom against kingdom.
3 The Egyptians will lose heart,
and I will bring their plans to nothing;
they will consult the idols and the spirits of the dead,
the mediums and the spiritists.
4 I will hand the Egyptians over
to the power of a cruel master,
and a fierce king will rule over them,”
declares the Lord, the LORD Almighty.

5 The waters of the river will dry up,
and the riverbed will be parched and dry.
6 The canals will stink;
the streams of Egypt will dwindle and dry up.
The reeds and rushes will wither,
7 also the plants along the Nile,
at the mouth of the river.
Every sown field along the Nile
will become parched, will blow away and be no more.
8 The fishermen will groan and lament,
all who cast hooks into the Nile;
those who throw nets on the water
will pine away.
9 Those who work with combed flax will despair,
the weavers of fine linen will lose hope.
10 The workers in cloth will be dejected,
and all the wage earners will be sick at heart.

11 The officials of Zoan are nothing but fools;
the wise counselors of Pharaoh give senseless advice.
How can you say to Pharaoh,
“I am one of the wise men,
a disciple of the ancient kings”?

12 Where are your wise men now?
Let them show you and make known
what the LORD Almighty
has planned against Egypt.
13 The officials of Zoan have become fools,
the leaders of Memphis are deceived;
the cornerstones of her peoples
have led Egypt astray.
14 The LORD has poured into them
a spirit of dizziness;
they make Egypt stagger in all that she does,
as a drunkard staggers around in his vomit.
15 There is nothing Egypt can do—
head or tail, palm branch or reed.

16 In that day the Egyptians will become weaklings. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the LORD Almighty raises against them. 17 And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified, because of what the LORD Almighty is planning against them.

18 In that day five cities in Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the LORD Almighty. One of them will be called the City of the Sun.[a]

19 In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them. 21 So the LORD will make himself known to the Egyptians, and in that day they will acknowledge the LORD. They will worship with sacrifices and grain offerings; they will make vows to the LORD and keep them. 22 The LORD will strike Egypt with a plague; he will strike them and heal them. They will turn to the LORD, and he will respond to their pleas and heal them.

23 In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. 24 In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. 25 The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”

Originally posted by gem_man
Israel is in total panic mode! It is a forgone conclusion the UN will vote to establish a Palestinian state in September. 131 countries already recognize a Palestine on the 1967 lines. Once the UN makes it official Israel will only be legitimate within those lines. It wouldn't matter much what Israel does after that as a UN border force will likely be in place to insure Israels security. Of course since Israel doesn't believe a UN force will protect them they are welcome to put their own border force on their side of the border if they wish. You know, like ALL other countries do.

The settlers will be a problem but thats Israels problem. They created the problem, let them solve it. Many settlers may elect to stay in the new Palestine which the PA has already said would be fine with them. Israel has Arab 2nd class citizens so Palestine will have Jewish 2nd class citizens.

Perhaps Israel will continue to occupy The new state which will result in sanctions. Something Israel can ill afford.

Once the borders are set I suspect Israel will be MORE then willing to negotiate the many other issues like water. The difference is they will be negotiating with another STATE and will be unable to dictate terms.

NOW, wouldn't it be better for Israel to freeze settlements and enter into negotiations before the moment is lost forever? Your move Netanyahu!
Gaza will not be part of the new state but will have the option to join in the future.

edit on 20-4-2011 by gem_man because: spelling

edit on 20-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

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________________

JERUSALEM — Dozens of Israel’s most honored intellectuals and artists have signed a declaration endorsing a Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 borders and asserting that an end to Israel’s occupation “will liberate the two peoples and open the way to a lasting peace.” The signers plan to announce their position on Wednesday from the same spot in Tel Aviv where the Jewish state declared its independence in the spring of 1948.

Israeli Luminaries Press For a Palestinian State

_________________

reply to post by gem_man


Not sure freezing the settlement's going to do anything..

Israel needs to start preparing its people for evacuation of the settlements as part of an agreement.

reply to post by Eliad


You're right Eliad. I do think however, that a negotiated peace is far better than an imposed peace. I believe Abbas' group also would prefer it. In fact Fayyed has so said.. Through negotiations Israel will be able to retain the large settlement blocks with an exchange of equal land. I don't think the Palestinians would oppose this. Settlers that are stranded within the new state could elect to stay in their homes and become Palestinian citizens or opt for compensation to move to Israel proper.

The "right of return" could be accomplished by Israel accepting a token number of refugees and others living in Palestine in vacated settlers homes with others simply accepting compensation. I believe this would be a realistic solution for this problem.

Jerusalem is probably the biggest problem for Israel but probably the Arab neighborhoods could be separated for the Palestinian state and the Jewish areas for Israel. This could be negotiated IF they go into negotiations. Otherwise I think Israel will be stuck with the 1967 lines which means NO E. Jerusalem. Netanyahu MUST freeze the settlements in order to get to the negotiations.

Gaza, of course will be left out of the new state with an option to join when they accept the existence of Israel and modify their behavior, or perhaps they will be part of the new state but deemed to be controlled by "rogue" elements. I really believe all this is workable.

Now Netanyahu is demanding the PA not just recognize Israels right to exist (they already have) but as a "Jewish" state. With 20% of the population being Non Jew it seems a bit silly to me and hints at a superior attitude towards non Jews which borders on racism.

I am in favor of both sides droping their "conditions" and activly start negotiations.
With Respect.

reply to post by Max_TO


No America will NOT veto the establishment of a Palestinian state. Not this time.

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by gem_man

 

“NOW, wouldn't it be better for Israel to freeze settlements and enter into negotiations before the moment is lost forever? Your move Netanyahu!”

You're right. Why don't they?
Oh wait a minute... they did freeze settlements for nine months, during which Abu Mazzen refused to enter negotiations. At the end of that nine months settlements freeze, Abu Mazzen threatened that Israel must freeze settlements or else...there would be no negotiations.
Ok, yeah, that's logical. Blame Israel.

Can't possibly have anything to do with the fact that during these 'freezes' settlements still continue to built on Palestinian land

reply to post by RingoRoadagain


The Israeli government was very clear that the freeze covered only new projects. Anything already under way when the measures went into effect could be completed.
So the ten (not nine, my mistake) months freeze came and went, but the Palestinians did nothing even remotely close to coming to the negotiation table.
Excuses excuses excuses. Did they benefit anything by doing that? Doesn't seem that way.
While Israel was freezing new settlement projects, did the PA stopped their incitement towards Israel and Jews? Not for a second. Did they change anything in their school -book texts? Of course not.
Israel doesn't appear in any of their maps. They praise death and Jihad, Demonize the Jewish people, name streets and squares after mess murderer terrorists.

Anyone that can't see that the Palestinians are stalling, is a fool. Stalling for what you might ask.
Well, as Abu Mazzen said last summer in the Arab conference, addressing Arab leaders : If you want war with Israel, we will Join in. But we can't fight them alone.

reply to post by gravitational

The Israeli government was very clear that the freeze covered only new projects. Anything already under way when the measures went into effect could be completed.

LMAO..That's like saying we're going to ban torture, but only on new prisoners..
The prisoners already here will still be tortured..

It's the Clayton's Freeze..
The Freeze you have when you're not having a Freeze..

reply to post by backinblack


No, your analogies are bad and not very intelligent.
But hey, feel free to give more excuses for the Palestinians. They certainly benefit greatly from it.

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by backinblack

 

No, your analogies are bad and not very intelligent.
But hey, feel free to give more excuses for the Palestinians. They certainly benefit greatly from it.

Please show where my analogies were bad...if you can...
You can't just mouth off without showing reason...

But I see it's fine for YOU to make excuses for Israel till the cows come home..

Originally posted by gravitational
reply to post by RingoRoadagain

 

The Israeli government was very clear that the freeze covered only new projects. Anything already under way when the measures went into effect could be completed.

So what incentive do they have to negotiate?

None, because the illegal settlements continue to be built up whether or not there is a freeze in effect. The settlement freezes are nothing but a con.

There is a problem with foreign policy. If there are two states, where one is far superior econimically and militaristically and one is far weaker. The weaker one will never accept peace becuase the stronger one will only offer them pressures and punishments in the aim of making a peace that agree's with them(the strong one). A prime example of the opposite is America vs The Soviet Union. America didn't offer just pressures and punishments but also incentives and rewards(I know it sounds like training a dog) in order to maintain peace on their behalf and get the Soviet Union to do what it wants- create a free market based economy and enact un-popular laissez-faire economic reforms that would send Russia into poverty. On the other hand America has only offered pressures and punishments to weaker countries like North Korea and Cuba, to do what America wants(the embargo on Cuba and so forth). In this we have seen those weaker countries never come to an agreement with the United States becuase there simply is nothing in it for them.
We can see the same parralels with the Israel-Palestine crisis. Israel only offers pressures, such as the blockade and punishments, such as airstrikes on a civillian populace. How will Palestine/Hamas ever accept peace when the only incentive(I use incentive here sarcastically) they have is not dying.
Israel should freeze the settlements, old and new.(incentive 1) if Palestine/Hamas begin easing up then they should offer another insentive(ease the blocade) then another if Hamas/Palestine eases up (offer aid) then another (remove all illegal settlements) then another and another untill they retreat to the June 1967 borders and reach a consensus in accordance and agreement with international law. The final goal would be a two state soloution, peace, compliance of international law and the creation of two trading partners, Israel and Palestine.
That is how effective foreign policy achieves peace. The question is why isn't Israel aiming to do this? Do they really want peace? or do they want a reason to anex all of Palestine.

In 2005 Israel did not only freeze settlements but completely destroyed every Jewish home in Gaza strip. Palestinians response: more rockets on Israeli civilians, more infiltration attempts by suicide bombers, not to mention when Hamas came to power, they killed their own Fatah brothers.

In the 90's according to Oslo accords, Israel left every city and village in the west bank and let them have an autonomy.
The result: more blood in the streets of Israel.

In 2000 camp David peace talks, Arafat was offered 94% of the west bank.
The result: The second Intifada.

You are most definitely siding with the righteous. I dare you, go to Gaza and speak highly of Christianity, declare you are gay or just try to say the wrong thing about Hamas. Lets see how long it takes till you take your last breath on this earth.
Mahmud Abbas the “moderate” is willing to join a war against Israel, but you lot continue with the illegal settlements mantra.

reply to post by gravitational


Yeah yeah, it's all Palestine's fault..

We know what you think, we just think it's BS..