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US total debt officially breaks debt ceiling!

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posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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But due to some accounting games, the ``debt subject to the ceiling`` is not breached... not yet.

The Debt to the Penny and Who Holds It

Total Public Debt Outstanding : 14,305,336,580,992.11


Total debt : 14.305 trillion.
Current ceiling : 14.294 trillion.


Total US Debt Now Officially Above The Ceiling

This is a problem because as anyone who rails against the broken US fiscal apparatus should be able to tell you, the debt ceiling is $14.294 trillion. In other words we have now officially breached the debt ceiling by $11 billion. So why has the US not filed a notice of default yet? Because the actual debt that matters for legal purposes is the debt "subject to the limit", which is $52 billion less than the total debt primarily due to $10 billion held at the Federal Financing Bank, and $41 billion in unamortized discount: a number which fluctuates in time depending on how much over or under par bonds are issued, but which ultimately will be zero at maturity of all debt (haha). In other words, as of today, the US Treasury has dry powder for just another $41 billion in issuance, or just over your average 5 Year auction. This can be seen best on the following chart from the Treasury where the total debt line has just passed the limit.

Update: cash as of Friday was $58 billion. With $55 billion in cash out this week and who knows how much of refund funding, it could get mightly close...

The US could reach the debt ceiling THIS WEEK...

Of course if that happens, the US would DEFAULT... but of course, since the FED loves to pull tricks... they will get $$$ from the PENSION FUNDS...

And about the debt ceiling... Demint is saying he will FILIBUSTER the raising of the debt ceiling.

This is gonna be interesting.

Update : Actually, the US would NOT default if the debt ceiling would not be raised. Default means not paying your debts right? The US government still receives money in taxes so it can pay the interest on debt. That means it doesn't default.

But what it means is that THEY CANNOT RUN A DEFICIT... that means a 0$ deficit. That means cutting the US budget by 40%+ OVERNIGHT... Do that and the checks stop... and that means RIOTS...

No way the government accepts that... they will raise the debt ceiling till the bond market forces the riots...they will not bring the ``riots on themselves``...
edit on 18-4-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Why is this news exactly? The DemocRATs and Repunklicans will simply agree to raise it again. They have no other choice unless they really do some slicing at the defense budget. Remember, defense budget is over 700 billion bucks. You really think they care?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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Things are changing in minutes

Total debt : 14.305 trillion.
Current ceiling : 14.294 trillion.

now is

Total debt : 14.307 trillion.
Current ceiling : 14.237 trillion.

www.usdebtclock.org...
edit on 18-4-2011 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by xavi1000
Things are changing in minutes

Total debt : 14.305 trillion.
Current ceiling : 14.294 trillion.

now is

Total debt : 14.307 trillion.
Current ceiling : 14.237 trillion.

www.usdebtclock.org...
edit on 18-4-2011 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

Except US debt clock is not ``official``... So... yeah.


Originally posted by DevilJin
Why is this news exactly? The DemocRATs and Repunklicans will simply agree to raise it again.

It's news because there's no bill right now about raising the debt ceiling that has passed the house or the senate, that at least ONE congressman has said he will filibuster and that the debt ceiling will be reached in the next few days...and if they don't have money, it's default time... default time or BALANCED BUDGET time... and that means cutting the federal budget by 50%!
edit on 18-4-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


I still say it's impossible to default in the US .. but still, I wonder what does happen when we reach this limit.. as far as I know, it's never been done before. There are numerous accounts that could be used to fund the interest on Debts, but Debt + Capital would only take a few weeks to run all other accounts dry.

Clearly if it came to default or not, Congress could authorize the increase it printed cash to pay the debts..



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Clearly if it came to default or not, Congress could authorize the increase it printed cash to pay the debts..


...further devaluing the dollar, forcing all 3 rating agencies to end the US' Triple A rating, causing the rest of the world to side with BRICS and end the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency, plunging the United States into a train wreck similar to what the Soviet Union dealt with 20 years ago.

They (the federal government) royally reamed us on this one. The instant the US loses the AAA+ rating, the interest on the debt jumps to over 6% (from the 1-1.5% they are currently at) and suddenly it costs the US close to a $trillion a year just to service the debt. Plus, the countries the government owes debt to will likely insist said debt be paid in something other than US dollars... I'm starting to think there are only two ways out of this. Either fire up the war machine to full power or pull a complete government austerity for 5-6 years during which spending on military drops to only what is needed to protect the US borders, eliminate all social sepnding aside from what citizens have fully paid into (like SS, Medicare, etc), tax the everloving hell out of imported goods, and drill the daylights out of every known oil field in the US. The first one is possible, but I'm not sure the government wants to save America any more, so who knows?



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:01 PM
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am I the only one who has seen this???

S&P just lowered the US Credit rating from
stable to NEGATIVE. First time in US History
that I know of. Dow Jones dropped 240 points
by the close.

www.foxnews.com...

read it and weep.
the end is near.
Soros has crashed
the US Dollar
per his wishes.

And I would be willing to bet that every bank or country
holding US T-Bills or Bonds right now is trying to unload them
to a sucker.
edit on 4/18/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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Relax people, the fed has just ordered new super-high-speed printing presses from China to print new money faster than the debt clocks are running.

It's all good.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Relax people, the fed has just ordered new super-high-speed printing presses from China to print new money faster than the debt clocks are running.

It's all good.

lmao

ur funny


like that's gonna help.
It just further devalues the dollar.

It's checkmate bro.
Dollar is toast.
There is no reason to raise the debt ceiling
now, as no entity will take the risk with a
negative credit rating.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Relax people, the fed has just ordered new super-high-speed printing presses from China to print new money faster than the debt clocks are running.

It's all good.

lmao

ur funny


like that's gonna help.
It just further devalues the dollar.

It's checkmate bro.
Dollar is toast.
There is no reason to raise the debt ceiling
now, as no entity will take the risk with a
negative credit rating.


Just a few more moves in all the wrong directions and the once mighty USA will be reduced to worthlessness all around,

At least enough of our elite have jumped ship, relocated to safer economies to do business.. The strong will survive, at least the ones who got out early enough....

The rising price of oil, by the way is actually more affected by the value of the dollar than by anything else... There is no stopping it now, it seems.

So yeah, we are screwed... It gets worse, but why stress over things we can't control... Be oblivious consumers to the end, or at least until the day you realize the cash you have is worthless.




posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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there are several people here at ats that probably can do this. but I lack the ability.
you know, pull my head out of my ass and kiss it good by. standby to pay off everything you have
keep charging more and more with the increase in business flow. keep rolling excesses into you debts
House - Car ... you want to pay them off before the dollar is worthless. typically thats only like 90 days.
Argentina and Germany. suggests a brief window to take posession of property as the dollars flush through
the economy. the gig is really close to being up., China is bringing in cash with their ships and paying more than spot for Silver and Gold and that is taken back aboard the ships. I dont know the volume, just the fact.
thats sort of back door black market if you ask me. property - land purchases as the rich flee dollars for assets.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Clearly if it came to default or not, Congress could authorize the increase it printed cash to pay the debts..


Sure we can do that, how many times you think you can get away with that before you are no longer able to get another loan. Trying that is the start of a death spiral, it is not a solution the economy would be obliterated. Credit will completely freeze up because nobody will have a clue what the dollar would be worth in the future.
Also understand what doing that means - you are stealing away every responsible persons savings they have worked for for years to pay of a debt they had nothing to do with.

Defaulting on a portion of our debt and living within our means is definitely better than total currency destruction.


Originally posted by burdman30ott6
...further devaluing the dollar, forcing all 3 rating agencies to end the US' Triple A rating, causing the rest of the world to side with BRICS and end the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency, plunging the United States into a train wreck similar to what the Soviet Union dealt with 20 years ago.

They (the federal government) royally reamed us on this one. The instant the US loses the AAA+ rating, the interest on the debt jumps to over 6% (from the 1-1.5% they are currently at) and suddenly it costs the US close to a $trillion a year just to service the debt. Plus, the countries the government owes debt to will likely insist said debt be paid in something other than US dollars... I'm starting to think there are only two ways out of this. Either fire up the war machine to full power or pull a complete government austerity for 5-6 years during which spending on military drops to only what is needed to protect the US borders, eliminate all social sepnding aside from what citizens have fully paid into (like SS, Medicare, etc), tax the everloving hell out of imported goods, and drill the daylights out of every known oil field in the US. The first one is possible, but I'm not sure the government wants to save America any more, so who knows?


A war will not get us out of this, what war could be big enough -China? How long do you really think that would stay conventional. I guess if you are saying we would kill off millions, it would lower our costs, well maybe but that is a not a solution I would want.

I don't really think there is a solution other letting everything default. Our economy needs to purge our debt at every level, from the fed gov, to the states, to the corporations, to individuals. All are carrying loads way to high. If we had let the economy go into recession in 2000, we would be in infinitely better shape. The idea that the economic cycle can be stopped is what got us into this mess.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Depends on how much needs to be printed, if they authorized a noticeably higher amount than normal, obviously it's going to cause more issues than just Moody's or S&P .. Europe and China would be pissed for one.

But at the same time, a lower credit rating and angry traders is better than a complete world wide economic meltdown.

EDIT: Since Nixon no country or investor can ask for payment in anything other than Dollars.. if we devauled our dollar a further 50% ontop of the 27% in the past 10 years, they have no choice but to accept it.

In the end, personally, I fully expect a major war of biblical proportions will be what gets us out of this mess.
edit on 4/18/2011 by Rockpuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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It's funny, I made money shorting the NZD against the USD today. The sentiment was for profit taking and risk reduction in the pair, which, after a strong run by the Kiwi, meant getting long on the dollar.

There was no mention of the debt ceiling at all in any of my live news feeds.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by ISRAELdid911
 


In the event that the Dollar's devaluation due to intended inflation where there is a direct manipulation of the monetary base, the last thing you want to do is pay off debt prior to such a major event. If you owe $20k on a car and the value of the dollar is devalued 10/1 the value of the debt it's self is reduced at the same level, because cash is easier to attain the debt is easier to pay off.. take that wheel barrow full of Dollar to the bank and tell them to kiss your ass; you're paying off that car debt for pennies on the Dollar.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by proximo
 


If it came to printing our own money, which we do via the Fed like wild fire since this fiasco started, including their latest "Quantitive Easing II" then other countries and investors are forced to invest Dollars back into the US Government, because if they don't the direct devaluation is more pronounced when we monetize our own debt, leading to the devaluation of their own holdings.

A tearful, red faced, pissed off Chinese banker told Bloomberg back in 2009 "We have no choice.. " we have the whole World by the balls, because our currency is the reserve currency, and the only other alternative is the unstable Eurozone which would collapse in upon it's self if the US were to collapse.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


precisely, right before it crashes,



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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Really this is all some pretty standard stuff.

The U.S. debt ceiling has been raised 11 times since 1996

www.foxbusiness.com...

Lol, the real problem is our debt to GDP ratio.


During the 1970s, debt held by the public declined from 28% GDP to 26% GDP. During the 1980s, it rose to 41% GDP. During the 1990s, it rose to 50% and then was reduced to 39% by the end of the decade. From 2000-2008, it rose from 35% to 40% and to 62% by the end of fiscal year 2010.

en.wikipedia.org...

But even then don't worry, it’s still not that big of deal if our public debt goes over 100% GDP.

Public Debt to %GDP
1 Japan 225.80%
3 Lebanon 150.70
5 Greece 144.00
6 Iceland 123.80
14 France 83.50
15 Portugal 83.20
16 Egypt 80.50
23 United Kingdom 76.50
31 Brazil 60.80
35 World 59.30
37 United States 58.90%

www.cia.gov...

And something even cooler… flip it around and look at the countries with the least debt to GDP%.

They're all our enemies.



edit on 18-4-2011 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Relax people, the fed has just ordered new super-high-speed printing presses from China to print new money faster than the debt clocks are running.

It's all good.


And of course everything needed to print "all the money you need" was borrowed from China ......

Nice post, Fractured Facade, made me giggle.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by tooo many pills
 


GDP has nothing to do with Debt. So it's a dumb thing to compare it to. Comparing Debt to Revenue.. now there is an important measurement.




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