Will you forget all the people who say 2012 is a symbolic date, after you THINK nothing happened?

There's another thread here titled "Will you apologize 12-22-2012 to ats?"

What would I have to apologize for?


Even the Mayans themselves are saying the date in 2012 is equivalent to the stroke of midnight for a new period of time, by their measuring.

The clock strikes midnight every night to signal the beginning of a brand new day, but what catastrophic or amazing things happen every night at the stroke of midnight? Why is there any reason to think anything special will happen at that specific point in time?


I'm just trying to remind people. There is more complexity to 2012 than just a bunch of people claiming the world is going to end. If you only listen to people who are sensationalizing, is that your fault, or mine?

Sounds like a convenient way to claim anything that happens after the stroke of midnight can be attributed to the changing times.

2012 is the by-product of Hollywood and MSM sensationalism. It's nothing but a date.

reply to post by Celcius


If it was purely what you say, then how do you account for the Mayans?

If you don't care what they have to say, that's one thing, but some people still respect Native Americans and their cultures. I'm one of those people. I think they honor a lot of wisdom that more "modern" cultures have sacrificed for profit.





This is a modern-day, surviving Mayan Elder.


Does he mention any specific events, happening on such-and-such a date?

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by Celcius

 

If it was purely what you say, then how do you account for the Mayans?

If you don't care what they have to say, that's one thing, but some people still respect Native Americans and their cultures. I'm one of those people. I think they honor a lot of wisdom that more "modern" cultures have sacrificed for profit.

This is a modern-day, surviving Mayan Elder.


Does he mention any specific events, happening on such-and-such a date?

edit on 17-4-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)

Frankly, I don't know. As someone mentioned in the comments, it was cut at about 0:55 and jumped to him saying not to be scared and everything's going to be OK. He could have made all kinds of dire predictions for all we know, and then tried to reassure us.

In any case it's things other than a lot of YK12 bull---t that scares me. Whether the worst of it happens in YK12 will be strictly coincidental....

reply to post by bsbray11


Good post.

The ignorance has gotten so bad that I tell people that I'm not a "2012er" because if I do they think of fictional Hollywood scenarios about a 24hr cataclysm. Its just easier to say I think its "probably bunk" sometimes because the image most people get in their minds, is bunk to me.


Edit to add...

Originally posted by Celcius
2012 is the by-product of Hollywood and MSM sensationalism.

Case in point.

reply to post by polarwarrior


You have a point. I've never called myself a "2012er" but I do give credence to what the Mayans themselves are saying.

All the Hollywood sensationalism is distraction, and the point I was trying to make with the OP is that if people only associate 2012 with Hollywood, instead of the Mayan people themselves, that's their own fault. When they complain about "nothing happening," if they are complaining to me, they would only be projecting their own ignorance of the Mayan message, which is quite different.

I could see this forum exploding after the date with one side saying "I told you so! Now apologise!" and the other saying "What do you mean? We were right!?"

I think the mayan priest who was interviewed in this article is the same one as in the OP's video. Its a really good read and I'd recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it yet (its been posted here a few times I think).

lettertorobin1.site.aplus.net...

What I find funny is that when people use this article to try to debunk 2012, mainly because of this quote...

Carlos Barrios: "Anthropologists visit the temple sites and read the inscriptions and make up stories about the Maya, but they do not read the signs correctly. It's just their imagination. Other people write about prophecy in the name of the Maya. They say that the world will end in December 2012. The Mayan elders are angry with this. The world will not end. It will be transformed."

But if you read the whole article the priest says the same things that 2012 researchers have been saying all along. He talks of the end of the fourth world and start of the world of the fifth sun, social chaos, environmental destruction, earth changes, war (all happening now as we are presently in the transition), rebirth and most importantly spiritual awakening and transformation.

I just found it funny how some people have been saying that 2012 is all bunk because Carlos says "the world isn't going to end" as he tries to dispel the msm/hollywood myths. Maybe two names for "2012" is appropriate lol.

It really annoys me when doomsayers say the world will end in 2012. This is just the projections form their own limited knowledge/understanding and their ignorance. Mainly it is those who beleive in th eboble's revelations. The world will be transformed, it will not end. It will end in the way that the old ways will end, but Ascension will transform our world and all life on it to a better place.

reply to post by taoistguy


Well the word "world" has very very broad meanings, is can mean anything from a particular way of life, sphere of human activity etc. right up to the entire universe. So even when just talking about a transformation, the phase "end of the world" can still be correct.

"End of the World" does not by definition require a single human to perish, let alone the whole planet. I think the varying usages of the word "world" in the phrase is causing a bit of confusion.

It is obvious that many/most people consider "end of the world" to be a physical cataclysmic eveny. They either see it as some esrth based catastrophe, an incoming comet, invasion by aliens, or some biblical armageddon. However, it is quietly understood by many people keeping quiet as an Ascension, not an 'end of the world' in the way I pointed out.

Sounds like preemptive damage control.

At least wait until the year 2012 to arrive before you start backtracking.

Originally posted by spinalremain
Sounds like preemptive damage control.

Okay, once again, where are you getting your information about 2012 in the first place? The Mayan culture, or Hollywood? What is there to even "backtrack" from?

Originally posted by Celcius

2012 is the by-product of Hollywood and MSM sensationalism. It's nothing but a date.

Actually, it's not.

Hollywood has indeed sensationalized the whole matter, agreed.

However, for some of us old-timers here on ATS, we know that this subject, this debate, and the inevitable angst between both sides exists. Back in the beginning days of ATS, some reference was made to it, and a very comprehensive report given back on the actual meaning behind it. What I'm about to quote I'm sure at least ONE person here would surely recognize...this is with regard to New Zealands Maori culture:

Well...don't know about the Mayan Calendar...but I know that there are some old Maori (culture I belong to) legends that speak of the reunification of 'Rangi' (the Sky) and 'Papa' (the Earth).

This one basically flows on from a Maori Creation Legend. Anyway, in short, Rangi (the Sky) and Papa (the Earth) were partners and were closely clasped together...they had a number of children, who lived in between these two parents, squashed and without light. One day these children (who were all Gods by the way - God of the Wind, God of the Sea, God of War etc etc) decided to push their parents apart so they could have room to move...they all tried and failed, till one of the Gods, Tane, pushed them apart, separated them, and hello - there was light.

Basically the other more secretive legend that follows on from this says that there will come a time when the children of Tane (that's you and me) are so busy, so distracted with fighting, with greed, with lust etc, so separated from our original parents (Rangi and Papa - so that kinda means we have lost our links with the natural order of things) that Rangi and Papa will take that opportunity - while no one is looking - to quickly come back together...destroying everything in the process. There has been much meditation done on this event and yep...2012 seems to be the year the old people are coming up with.

A second post continued...

I also forgot to mention this other bit in my haste to get to work earlier:

I have asked a few of the 'kaumatua' (tribal elders) what they see happening in 2012. One said "Ka hinga te arai"...the rest nodded and agreed. Okay, I'll explain what that means...

hinga = to fall arai = curtain

those are the modern interpretations of those two words in what he said to me...so basically he said "The curtain will fall". Okay - I thought about that for a while, thinking about what he meant...and I originally deduced he meant like "Final curtain" end of the world sorta thing. That was until I did a bit more digging into the origins of those two words. Ya see...modern Maori is just like modern English...it changes over time, the means of words alter and get reinterpreted as time goes by.

This kaumatua (elder) is an 'old school' Maori...knowledgeable in the ancient ways, the old ways, the old original language...or 'tuturu Maori' as it is called, which basically means 'original Maori. So anyway, in original Maori, those two words (hinga and arai) mean slightly different things.

hinga = to dissolve/to be removed/ to fade
arai = veil / thin separation

'arai' is the main word there to look at. Okay, when people die, Maori say they have gone 'ki muri i te arai'...they have gone 'behind the veil'...passed over so to speak. So in that sense, 'arai' actually means like a 'separator' between the physical world/plane and the spiritual world/plane.

So - 'ka hinga te arai' in old Maori means (as closely at it can interpreted in English) The removal/dissolving of the planes separator...basically the MERGING of the physical and spiritual planes.

There - just a bit of an old Maori cultural lesson to get ya mind ticking over.

Perhaps this will shed some light for those who want some real-world insight as to what it could mean, without the anxiety of "OMG will the heavens and earth open up and swallow me?!?!"

Awesome! So, if the world ends then the 2012ers can say, "I told you so!" If something...anything...happens then the 2012ers can say, "I told you so!" Now, if nothing happens and life is normal, then the 2012ers can still say, "I told you so" but have to add, "you just didn't realize something happened."

I think they've got all the bases covered on this one and all I can say is, "Bravo!"

I guess I'll have to tune up my vibrations so I can be a part of the "new age." But, at the same time, I need to stock up at least 6 mos. worth of supplies in case our collective vibrations don't stop the catastrophe. Unless, the FEMA camps are designed to hold those with those snazzy "new age" vibrations using special soul vibration dampening foam.

On a somewhat serious note, how many 2012 factions are there? Is this how the world is really going to end, with different factions battling it out over how the world will end?

Originally posted by spinalremain
Sounds like preemptive damage control.

At least wait until the year 2012 to arrive before you start backtracking.

Sounds like your cut that you won't be able to lump us in with the "fictional hollywood scenario" folks then tar everyone with the same brush. Why do you want us to wait until 2012 before stating our position, is this so that you can say we're changing the story now that it has come and gone?

My position has always been clear, its not changing, not going into damage control..... and according to skeptics I don't exist.

Unfortunately come December 22nd, most on ATS will ignore what a lot of people have been saying about 2012 all along and project their own fanciful scenario into our mouths about what they think the 2012 theories were and then claim that its wrong. People love to claim they were right, its an ego thing that small minds like to indulge in to give themselves a boost, they'll do it even if it means lying about or twisting what the other has said which to me would defeat the purpose, but meh, luckily posts are there to stay.

Something your going to have to come to grips with is that amongst researchers, the 2012 scenario your probably thinking of is not that popular, so on alternative sites like this your actually going to be hard up finding many people who believe 2012 will unfold like the movie or the history channel docos. Only the skeptics and debunkers (and mainstream of course) seem to be getting their info about what the theories are from hollywood or history channel type sources. So unfortunately for you, your not going to be getting many apologies.

Good topic...
One might say, that if nothing happens beyond what is present at least people have learned to be better prepared-because disasters can and will happen, even if on a smaller, non earth encompassing scale.

Originally posted by Feltrick
Awesome! So, if the world ends then the 2012ers can say, "I told you so!" If something...anything...happens then the 2012ers can say, "I told you so!" Now, if nothing happens and life is normal, then the 2012ers can still say, "I told you so" but have to add, "you just didn't realize something happened."

I think they've got all the bases covered on this one and all I can say is, "Bravo!"

What the Mayans are saying doesn't really translate as "anything will happen." There are some specifics you're leaving out, but then again you probably haven't heard a real indigenous person speak about this.

Good try though.



That's the first I've heard of the Maori culture too, alphabetaone. Thanks.

It's surprising with all the problems we have in our lives .. everyday issues .. people don't even care of each other .. people have lost their humanity over greed ... do you honestly think it makes any difference ..?

The world has already ended in your minds .. and you're living in it .. it's called hell right here on planet earth ... dead people walking .. hopeless without a conscience .. simply existing to screw over the next person they meet ...

No pole shift .. volcano .. or whatever is going to make any difference .. if you're already spiritually dead ...


also .. most of the people who actually believe this 2012 type of stuff are the weak minded ones ... people with no hope in their lives .. and are actually looking forward to something happening .. secretly getting a high from it ... it's a sickness ...

You realize almost your entire post is a complete contradiction of itself don't you?

Originally posted by legalizeit
It's surprising with all the problems we have in our lives .. everyday issues .. people don't even care of each other .. people have lost their humanity over greed ... do you honestly think it makes any difference ..?

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Originally posted by legalizeit
also .. most of the people who actually believe this 2012 type of stuff are the weak minded ones ... people with no hope in their lives ..

edit on 21-4-2011 by legalizeit because: (no reason given)

So you care so much about your fellow man, that you call them weak-minded and would chastise instead of help those with no hope in their lives?

Perhaps mindset's like these are the change they dream to bring about .... who knows.