Zahi Hawass Sentenced to Prison

reply to post by zuul000


Yep, well alot is happening at a very fast pace in Egypt right now. Hawass is doing 1 year HARD LABOUR too!

Originally posted by zorgon
His only concern is to keep anyone away from anything that might prove that the accepted story may not be the real story... Evil? Perhaps not... Shady? Most certainly

With respect, I think you are exceedingly wrong on this count. Hawass may be a showman, and may not appear particularly sophisticated by our jaded Western standards, but his major contribution has been to protect the integrity of Egypt's cultural heritage and to keep its resources under that country's care and control.

The world is full of Western museums and university who consider ancient antiquities to be theirs by virtue of academe, entitlement or basic colonialism. That just ain't so. Look at the Elgin Marbles, and Greece's efforts to repatriate them as an example. This is all part of a larger argument, and I applaud Hawass for being the gatekeeper. He may drive people nuts...but he is standing up for the rights of the Egyptian people. Perhaps that presents a risk due to the corruption of others...but who are we to march in and assume control? We are supposed to have left our colonial 'white man's burden' behind us.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by zorgon
His only concern is to keep anyone away from anything that might prove that the accepted story may not be the real story... Evil? Perhaps not... Shady? Most certainly

With respect, I think you are exceedingly wrong on this count. Hawass may be a showman, and may not appear particularly sophisticated by our jaded Western standards, but his major contribution has been to protect the integrity of Egypt's cultural heritage and to keep its resources under that country's care and control.

The world is full of Western museums and university who consider ancient antiquities to be theirs by virtue of academe, entitlement or basic colonialism. That just ain't so. Look at the Elgin Marbles, and Greece's efforts to repatriate them as an example. This is all part of a larger argument, and I applaud Hawass for being the gatekeeper. He may drive people nuts...but he is standing up for the rights of the Egyptian people. Perhaps that presents a risk due to the corruption of others...but who are we to march in and assume control? We are supposed to have left our colonial 'white man's burden' behind us.

I was preparing to type a similar rebuttal when I read your post, I believe the points you cite are a lot closer to the root of Hawas' controversial reputation than any of the nonsensical conspiratal accusations being lobbed his way in this thread.

Illuminati? Really? Dan Brown would be proud.

As this arrest story is fresh, I cant find much in the way of detailed information on the charges however...

Aren't a few of you cheerleading your support of Hawas' alleged conviction often posting in other threads your belief that basic human rights are being eroded by the nefarious "TPTB", that we all need to be aware shadowy kangaroo courts handing out wanton punishment for alleged crimes without due process? Wasn't that a prime issue at the heart of the recent social and political unrest in Egypt?

I could be wrong when the facts come in but in the meantime I ask where is the due process at work here? Obviously this is the first any of us have heard about this, so just exactly when was Hawas' accused and tried in court? Who passed judgment and sentenced him to a year for his crimes?

Why no outrage for what looks to possibly be a flagrant human rights violation against this man?

Im glad this bloke is gone, he blocked so many projects which may have found important historical things.

reply to post by zuul000

This has gotta be a joke right? Zahi Hawass is a living legend. Are there any other news articles to corroborate this? It seems so ... bizarre.

Originally posted by zorgon
His only concern is to keep anyone away from anything that might prove that the accepted story may not be the real story... Evil? Perhaps not... Shady? Most certainly

Remember all that fuss about the caves under Giza? The ones he wouldn't admit to or let anyone look?

uh huh "they don't exist..."

Uh, you're wrong here. I've read countless books about Hawass and done a lot of research over the things he has discovered and written. While I don't agree with some of his conclusions, he has the right to deduce things based on his experience.

Perhaps you didn't know, but for a large portion of Hawass's early career, he was obsessed with finding the tomb of Osiris, whom he believed was a man who lived in pre-dynastic times. He ended up finding a tomb-like structure in the Giza Plateau which was mostly flooded, but contained a sarcophagus that was about 10 feet long and had a representation of an ox or some sort inside. None of this was hidden. Perhaps they did find an alien there and it was changed to be a symbolic body by some kind of secret service, but regardless, the escapade itself was not kept secret.

Hawass also allowed drilling and digging around the Sphinx as well as an exploration of the caves (you can even see some of the exploration in the TV show, Chasing Mummies). He found that they extended way farther than had been previously guessed, but also found that it was way too dangerous to continue exploring. Hawass thinks that the caves and cavities beneath Giza are natural, but that's his opinion. It's my opinion that if they are over 10,000 years old, that erosion has simply played so much of a part that the original structure which may have been man-made is no longer recognizable.

Originally posted by TheMistaMan
reply to post by zuul000

 

This has gotta be a joke right? Zahi Hawass is a living legend. Are there any other news articles to corroborate this? It seems so ... bizarre.

Mr Hawass, welcome to ATS It's nice to know that they have internet connections in Egyptian prisons

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

He may drive people nuts...but he is standing up for the rights of the Egyptian people. Perhaps that presents a risk due to the corruption of others...but who are we to march in and assume control? We are supposed to have left our colonial 'white man's burden' behind us.


A little more research may be in order . You won't see it in tourist pictures but the sphynxs and the pyramids are ringed in fencing . There used to be a couple of hundred tour operators who would take tourists in , often on camel caravans . An operator could have 30 employees to offer full service . Hawass put an end to it only granting personal tour operator permits to hand picked tour operators who could and would kick back substantial money to him . When the revolt came over 1,000 people , operators and employees went to the army and demanded that Hawass be arrested for corruption . Under Hawasses permit system , non-permitted tour operators could only take tourists to the fences , unless they got a Hawass permit and paid him off . There are many archaeology students and graduate archaeologists in Egypt , unemployed because Hawass only hired the sons of those connected to him or Mubarak , many totally unqualified to sweep floors while those qualified and educated but without a connection to Hawass or Mubarak went unemployed . Many of them went to the army also requesting that Hawass be gone . Hawass was and is corrupt to the core and National Geographic couldn't even shoot 1 minute of video unless Hawass was the star and stars are well compensated . Egyptology was his ticket to ride , his meal ticket and in Egypt he was the guy who had to be paid . The only difference between him and the other fake , Bear Grills is that Hawass wouldn't jump off a pyramid . He'd take the cash and shove someone else off .

Originally posted by alfa1
Funny that there isnt more news on this.

Its (as I type) now 7:35pm in Egypt, so one would think that if something had happened during the day to a very well known internationally famous person there'd be lots of stories about it.

The only reference I can find is the one you linked to. Nothing else.
Nothing on aljazeera.

well...it was said that the president (ex) could be hung....so zahi going prison is not news to the egyptians...

and i want to add....RETURN THE F`ing LAND BACK TO THE NUBIANS AND STOP SELLING IT AT HALF PRICE TO SAUDI PRINCES....

It should be noted that Hawass is not "in prison." He was "sentenced to prison." He is still sitting as Antiquities Minister and motoring about Cairo in his chauffeured car as I type this ... most certainly there will be an exhaustive appeals process (assuming the ruling junta doesn't just quash the sentence entirely).

Agence France Presse - Egypt's antiquities chief to appeal jail term
– Sun Apr 17, 2:51 pm ET

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110417/wl_africa_afp/egyptarchaeologypoliticstrial

(...)

The sentence will be suspended until the appeal ruling.

Sunday's sentence against Hawass -- known internationally as a leading Egyptologist -- came after a suit was filed against him in a land dispute while he was still the country's antiquities supremo.

In the ruling, Hawass was ordered to return the land to the plaintiff, but he allegedly refused to do so.

Hawass was sentenced to a year in prison, a fine of 10,000 Egyptian pounds (more than $1,600) in damages plus interest, and to be removed from his post.

(...)

Here's Hawass's Response:

Explanation of the Court Trial Against Me

I have to tell the world right now, there is a story going around that I am going to be in jail, which is a complete misunderstanding.

Last year, we were taking bids from different companies to run a book store inside the Egyptian Museum. There is a person, who was renting a bookstore inside the Museum. He wanted to stop the bidding process, because he thought he should keep his contract. This person filed a case with the Misdemeanor Court in Agouza, Cairo, in order to stop the bidding process. This case was filed against the Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA), not against me personally, but against the role I was holding at that time.

However, before the case came to trial, the bidding process ended at the end of May 2010, and the Supreme Council of Antiquities (now the Ministry of State for Antiquities) chose a company, the Egyptian Sound and Light Company, to run the bookstore. Shortly after this decision was made, the court trial happened, at the beginning of June, so the SCA representatives did not have time to present evidence that the bidding had finished. Therefore, the court made a ruling that the bidding should stop. However, it was too late to do anything.

He still wanted to get his way, so this person continued to bring action against me in the court. In November 2010, the court made a ruling, that I was innocent, because as the Secretary General of the SCA, I was not in charge of legal affairs at the SCA, this was under the control of the Ministry of Culture at that time. But this was not enough for this person, he brought the case to the court again, claiming he had evidence that I was in fact in charge of legal affairs, and this time, the SCA did not have a legal representative present at the court. The court made the current ruling that I, as head of the SCA, was sentenced to a year in jail. This is how the court in Egypt works, and this is not an uncommon thing that the head of an organization gets sentenced like this. When a ruling like this is made, the defendant (in this case myself as Secretary General of the SCA at that time) has a certain amount of time to appeal the decision of the court.

Tomorrow, the head of the Legal Affairs Department at the Ministry of Antiquities will go to the court to file our appeal. He will present evidence that the bid for the bookstore contract was finished before the original court ruling, so therefore we could not follow the ruling to stop the bidding. We already had completed the bidding! I have every confidence that this matter will be cleared up very soon, so I want to tell everyone not to worry. I respect the laws of my country very highly, and the rulings of our courts. I intend to handle this matter entirely within our legal system. Nothing will cause me to lose focus from my goal of protecting the sites of Egypt.

Link to story

Hawass


In another story

Former Minister Hawass denies having covered up antiquities theft

and signing an agreement with an American association that threatened the national security of Egypt by allowing the association to conduct studies on certain ancient Egyptian kings.

What "study" of the Egyptian Kings could threaten Egypt's national security?

Source

Originally posted by Julie Washington
Here's Hawass's Response:
Explanation of the Court Trial Against Me

And in this story it is worth noting a piece of advice.
If there are court proceedings against you, then do take the time to turn up to the court so you can present your case.

Shortly after this decision was made, the court trial happened, at the beginning of June, so the SCA representatives did not have time to present evidence that the bidding had finished.

...and this time, the SCA did not have a legal representative present at the court. The court made the current ruling that I, as head of the SCA, was sentenced to a year in jail.

Originally posted by bandito
A little more research may be in order .

Sorry...all I have to go on is from talking to Egyptologists who have dug there. I know that doesn't count for much on a conspiracy site.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Varemia
Am I the only one who looks up to Hawass and sees him as a good guy just trying to do the best he can with what he has?

Most likely, yes

I mean, he has been basically charged with protecting every artifact and temple, and overseeing every single thing that goes on to make sure that history isn't being destroyed or altered.

If he was so concerned about protecting, he would not have resigned as soon as the going got tough. That act alone proved he was in it for himself

Well, actually he didn't quit as soon as the going got tough... it was a bit afterward... after looters already started going after everything they could get...

Not that I'm defending his position as someone who may or may not have kept the rest of the world from doing any real research (though that may have been a way of 'maintaining the mystery' for tourisms sake).

Remember all that fuss about the caves under Giza? The ones he wouldn't admit to or let anyone look?



uh huh "they don't exist..."

See, this is where I agree with you on this...

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


We may know the same people but the ones i know tell a corruption story about Hawass through and through . Nothing said in public because Hawass can pull permits and make things very difficult . As opposed to avocational i'm a recreational archaeologist (no formal training) but i've been on digs from Chako Canyon to Alaska and mid-May i'm heading for Wrangel Island and i actually do know a lot of people in this field and every single one has the same opinion of Hawass . The middle east works on corruption , kickbacks and payoffs and the higher and more powerful your position , the bigger the cut . Same as any third world country and the story about the bidding on the bookstore is probably true but the highest bidder will be kicking money back and if he paid a little up front he'd know exactly where to place his bid because he could access the information on the bid of the second highest bidder .

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Well, actually he didn't quit as soon as the going got tough... it was a bit afterward...

ONCE AGAIN, he didn't quit at all. He resigned at the beginning of March and was rehired at the end of March. During the interceding 3 weeks he remained on the job but with "interim" added to his title.

(I'll just add this as a macro to my computer so I don't have to retype the next 5 times someone posts he quit.)

reply to post by Varemia


Its not that, he just thinks that they're is no way and will not talk about any other way the pyramids were built by anyone other than Egyptians.

We all know the Egyptians did not build the Great pyramids at Giza as they are too perfect. Every other pyramid in the area was built by Egyptians because they are all flawed because they all tried to copy the first ones that were not built by them.

Hawass is a stooge and if he goes I will be happy because he has put a major lid on major discoveries there. The Hall of Records for one that he will not open up.

the suppression of knowledge and truth is an unforgivable sin of the highest order...Hawass was a master of the suppression of some of mankinds most valuable history, so i hope this is true...one year of hard labor is not nearly long enough for the travesties this man has been behind...

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


If i can make a point about the Elgin marbles, they are on display at the British Museum for all to see in a wonderful exhibit that is free t the public. I have no faith that the Greeks would do such a treasure justice if it was on display in Athens. I'm sure i'll have an angry Greek or two respond to that, but its my honest opinion.

I have the same opinion about Egyptian antiques. The Egyptian Museum in Cairo is an absolute basketcase of a place. The wonderful artefacts there are not given the care they deserve and especially not the displays they deserve. The Egyptian artefacts that you find in modern museums, like the British Museum or the Met in New York, are presented in a manner that befits their splendor.

As for Hawass IMO it is difficult to believe that he isnt corrupt given the govt he was operating in. Tourism is massively important to the Egyptian economy, and from what I can tell Hawass was more interested in lining his pockets and propaganda rather than uncovering the truth about Egypt's past. There are many fine archaeologists and researchers in Egypt that havent had a voice under his rule.