For those complaining about the "Nanny State" and US debt

For those complaining about the "Nanny State" and US debt:

Where were you during the Bush administration? Where were the cries of outrage when the same welfare programs existed during a Republican-led administration? Where were the gripes over spending when we entered two wars that added hundreds of billions of dollars to the US debt?

In my opinion, what we are seeing now from Tea Partiers and conservatives is nothing more than plain ol' typical partisanship that underlies our political system. If they were really concerned about debt, or nanny-state programs, significant changes would have been made while they were in power under President Bush. Today, it's too easy for conservatives to lay the blame on President Obama and other Democrats - when this debt problem has been growing for years upon years. But, whine a little, point the finger - and guess what, more followers and voters for you!

(By the way, I'm a registered independent.)


Edit: This post is largely about the conservative/TP politicians, commentators, and their "followers" - not those who have been complaining about these issues for years. Members are misunderstanding my point, so this was added.

Alot of people were aware and did speak up... TPTB just don't listen.
Don't you think your generalizing just a tad?

Originally posted by ffman
(By the way, I'm a registered independent.)

It's the same story over and over and over again. Depending on which side of the fence you're on depends on who you point your fingers at. The fact of the matter is: registered independent or not, you're swinging the left-wing liberal club. I would basically say that this is baiting/trolling.

Originally posted by freakjive

Originally posted by ffman
(By the way, I'm a registered independent.)

It's the same story over and over and over again. Depending on which side of the fence you're on depends on who you point your fingers at. The fact of the matter is: registered independent or not, you're swinging the left-wing liberal club. I would basically say that this is baiting/trolling.

No, it's not.

I'm simply tired of seeing all the blame put on this administration when, if those who had the power were truly concerned, they could have made significant changes while President Bush was in power.

reply to post by ffman


So it doesn't matter that Barry has gone back on all of his campaign promises?
He may not have started alot of the problems but he sure is driving the nail in the coffin.

Right after the planes went into the towers Bush said , we'll smoke 'em out and run 'em to ground , and he went on offence and stayed on offence . If Obama gets the call that an American city is under attack he won't know who to apologize and bow to next . Do your research . This financial mess was due to the Community Re-Investment Act , courtesy of the Clinton administration and the Congressional Black Caucus . The Bush administration tried to kill it twice and couldn't because the folks had been told that home ownership is a right even without a job to pay the mortgage . Look it up .

Originally posted by SnakeShot
reply to post by ffman

 

So it doesn't matter that Barry has gone back on all of his campaign promises?
He may not have started alot of the problems but he sure is driving the nail in the coffin.

edit on 15-4-2011 by SnakeShot because: (no reason given)

I never said anything about that.

But, is Obama to blame for the staggering debt totals and the welfare programs we have? No - those have been here and growing for years upon years (especially the debt in regards to two wars).

The 'true' republicans know Bush hurt the party. His policies were nothing republican. Obama isn't much different yet the same people who hated Bush love Obama and those who still love Obama hated Bush's policies. The elections are rigged in the US not because of voter fraud, but because most voters are sheeple and will vote for who has the best ads.

The nanny state will only get stronger if the voters stay in the dark. I actually believe that an NFL strike might wake up some people simply because they won't be distracted by the football season and actually pay attention to the direction this country is heading.

There is a grain of truth in what you say. Tribal politics certainly explains some of what you observe but the deficits currently being run is a half an order of magnitude worse that anything we have seen recently. Its better that people wake up to this now (for whatever reason) then never.

the welfare programs we have?

You do realize that US welfare was created by a democrat, right?

Originally posted by bandito
Right after the planes went into the towers Bush said , we'll smoke 'em out and run 'em to ground , and he went on offence and stayed on offence . If Obama gets the call that an American city is under attack he won't know who to apologize and bow to next . Do your research . This financial mess was due to the Community Re-Investment Act , courtesy of the Clinton administration and the Congressional Black Caucus . The Bush administration tried to kill it twice and couldn't because the folks had been told that home ownership is a right even without a job to pay the mortgage . Look it up .

Was Obama in office in Sept or Oct 2008 when the bailouts were handed out like candy? No, 43 was. Simple as that, end of discussion.

reply to post by ffman


the simple answer would be: if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

obama has changed nothing, and is now an accessory to the crap created by reagan/bush/clinton/bush jr

obama has doubled the nannystate budgets

the proof is out there for anyone to see..


the blame goes to the highest man in the land and that is obama.

the buck stops with him.


just like the buck stopped for bush.

I too am a registered independent and bitched incessantly during the Clinton, Bush I and Bush II years. The fact that I bitch about Barry is no different.

Sorry, but your assertion holds very little water and makes it sound like you're not as independent as you claim to be.

Obama claimed he would undo much of what was done before him and has done the exact opposite. He's no better than any other puppet that has sat in his seat.

Originally posted by bozzchem
I too am a registered independent and bitched incessantly during the Clinton, Bush I and Bush II years. The fact that I bitch about Barry is no different.

Sorry, but your assertion holds very little water and makes it sound like you're not as independent as you claim to be.

Obama claimed he would undo much of what was done before him and has done the exact opposite. He's no better than any other puppet that has sat in his seat.

edit on 15-4-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2011 by bozzchem because: (no reason given)

I wasn't a member here during the Clinton/Bush years to know how much ATSers complained way back then (I only learned of the site last year).

Like noted in an earlier post, this is just as much (or, mainly) directed toward the politicians and political "commentators" who blame this all on the Obama administration. Their party had a chance to fix these "problems" in 2001-2008, yet here it still stands.

reply to post by ffman


Even with your addition to your OP for clarification, you still are painting with a broad brush. First you specifically call out "what we are seeing now from Tea Partiers and conservatives..." than make a point to say you meant commentators, pols and such.

I think your intended aim was what you sought. Anyone that has decided that enough is enough and its time to take our eyes off the boob-tube and get involved. Is that 100% of the people? Absolutely not. I am sure there are a good amount that are jumping on the political dissent bandwagon, just like when it was President Bush in office and the wars we engaged in had their political bandwagon crowd.

But where are the Cindy Sheehans and media coverage of our soldiers dying in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where is Code Pink protestors? You see, we can all paint with a broad brush to fuel the emotional debate, but the logical debate is what finally took people to see that politicians have been bending them over for years and its high time to actually do something? As I believe they still exist, in a much lessor capacity because someone of their political siding is running the show.

I feel you are guiding this discussion here on your post to intially set all conservatives and all tea-party members at a certain level. To justify your observation, you give us the quip that you are a registered independent. Maybe truly you didn't intend it, but it is there. It is more natural actually because you are making an argument against them. So it stands you would paint them in a less than flattering color in regards.

Now, I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I was disgusted at many of former President Bush's policies pushes. That said, while they were policies he sought, it was Congress who made them possible (or not possible and barring the veto...sparingly used all 8 years of Bush.)

Bush Policies - Congress' Action

No Child Left Behind Act
"Bush" Tax Cuts
Homeland Security
Both authorizations to use force in Iraq and Afghanistan
To name a few...

All were passed by Congress, who at the Federal level are an extention of the People and the States (sorta). This isn't to let Bush off the hook for those proposals, but it also is good to know that they were vetted and approved of within the halls of Congress.

We also need to look at the environment. Unemployment was humming along at about 5% (for all intensive purposes; full employment). While median income fell about $1000, there was an increase on after-tax income because of the tax-cuts. Food wasn't terribly expensive. A perception of the president and a perceived disdain for everything that doesn't come from Government wasn't in the air. These contriubute to the silence.

But near the end of Bush, we start to see more intrusive programs and a centralization and reinforcement at the Federal level. People begin to notice and take action. The 2006 congressional elections is pretty evident with that. If the people were not feeling things were going the wrong way, the pendulum would have stayed further in the Republican's court. But wars were dragging on, more intrusive policies were coming online. More government meddling where people really didn't want them to. All these were the precurser I believe to what eventually exploded as the tea party movement and also the waking up of many sleeping citizens.

If you were directing your original post towards politicians and commentators as you have clarified, why did you bother posting it here at all?
That target audience very likely doesn't post or even read on ATS. Sounds more like you are not independent, but rather stuck in the left/right paradim and are just trolling.

This is a bit off-topic But...
How does one register as an "independent"? I've lived in four states and voted in three and in all cases being a registered party affiliate is determined by which (if any ) primary elections one votes in. Here in Texas you don't register as any party, it becomes evident when you vote in a primary. One may be a registered Republican in one primary and a registered Democrat in the next. Independents never have primaries... so does that mean you never vote in a primary to be able to call yourself a registered independent?
Thanks.

ganjoa

reply to post by ffman


So, it's a bad thing now that people are waking up to the scam of the so-called "two party system"?
Or is it bad simply because they are waking up on the wrong guy's watch?

Should we wait until someone different is in office to voice our anger?

(By the way, I'm a registered independent.)

By the way, how do you "register" as an independent?

This thread highlights the problem in America today its partisan polotics. There is no middle ground and nobody is willing to compromise. The conservitives and liberals both need to take a big suck, the majority of Americans are center right and just want to see govt. work. Not this pissing match that enfects so much of polotics today.

Republicans

Democrats

Nuff said