Here is proof that Obama has not released his long form birth certificate yet

reply to post by aptness


In the end Congress thought it not worthy of debate...and resolution 511, introduced by Democrats and co-sponsored by Sen. Hillary Clinton and then Sen. Barack Obama passed in 2008 declaring John Sydney McCain a "natural born Citizen" under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

Then in 2009 the house passed a resolution officially declaring President Barack Obama born in Hawaii...know how many GOP took that opportunity to challenge the claim? ZERO It passed by a vote of 378 to ZERO.

In the end this is a debate of political convenience, a desperate appeal to the lowest common denominator, folks unconcerned with evidence and willing to manufacture thier own.

Anyone still screaming "Why doesn't he just show the long-form?!!!" See above. This issue has been of immeasurable value to the Obama Administration and the public at large as it allows them to sort out the crazies from the conservatives at a time in history when it is otherwise difficult to tell the difference.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Assuming there is a long-form birth certificate, what reason could he possibly have for keeping it secret? Because his religion is listed as "Muslim?" Possibly.

Forgot to address this point. Religion is not even specified on a long form birth certificate from Hawaii. Here is a 1962 long form birth certificate, and here is another one from 1963.

It would be easier to sympathize with your arguments if the accusations or suggestions you’re making had a valid basis.

And yes, state authorities have confirmed there is an original birth certificate filed—

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
So.........which Hospital was Bazza born in then? - which one has got the plaque that proudly proclaims it as the messiahs birthplace?

So you asnwer my question with this question? Interesting.

americangrandjury.org...

Yeah, we have been over your opinion page already. I linked you to the actual government website it cherry picks from yet you still cannot answer my question. Does that mean you realize how failed your argument is? Obama never claimed to be of native Hawaiian ancenstry so no, he does not need to prove that to anyone.

Originally posted by tom502
I read that Obama has a sister Maya Soetoro(not sure if that's spelled right), who was born in Indonesia, yet, also has a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth. Anyone know more about this? It follows along with how some have said getting one of these at that time was not hard.

This is the internet. Seems to me that if there is a copy of her BC stating she was born in Hawaii, you could find that. Can you?

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Do you suppose this might be why the founders put the 'natural born' clause in there?

Obama's dangerous Islamist tilt
www.wnd.com...

No. I have a hard time believing the founding fathers would be gullible enough to believe rumors from WND but I am positive they never read it or even heard of Obama so...no.

reply to post by aptness


all that means is the court doesn't know if there is a birth certificate on file or not, so it could very well be that there isn't one.

Originally posted by OldCorp
You couldn't be more wrong. John McCain was born on a US military base (Panama Canal Zone) to a US citizen mother and a US citizen father who was serving on active duty at the time. US military bases in other countries are considered our sovereign territory, so he might as well have been born on the Capitol steps.

Are you sure he was born on the base? What hospital was he born in?

Originally posted by OldCorp
It's been "proven" that he was born in Hawaii? By whom?

His birth certificate went a long way to do that. What have you got?

As long as Obama refuses to release it, this question will NOT go away. He MUST produce it anyway if he wants to get on the 2012 ballot in Arizona and a couple of other states that have pending legislation requiring a long form BC of ANY candidate. So what is he waiting for?

See what I did there? Find me one birther bill that has passed that demands a LONG FORM birth certificate for every candidate.

Originally posted by filosophia
all that means is the court doesn't know if there is a birth certificate on file or not, so it could very well be that there isn't one.

“All that”? What do you mean by “all that”?

The court had before it a claim that under state law the plaintiff argued he had the right to inspect a government record. The court interpreted the state law and concluded the plaintiff didn’t, contrary to the claim, have the right to inspect said record.

Why would the judges inquiry if the record exists or not?

You didn’t read the court’s opinion did you?

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by filosophia
all that means is the court doesn't know if there is a birth certificate on file or not, so it could very well be that there isn't one.

“All that”? What do you mean by “all that”?

The court had before it a claim that under state law the plaintiff argued he had the right to inspect a government record. The court interpreted the state law and concluded the plaintiff didn’t, contrary to the claim, have the right to inspect said record.

Why would the judges inquiry if the record exists or not?

You didn’t read the court’s opinion did you?

Yes, I did read the court's opinion, it said that he was not an immediate family member so he doesn't get to see it. But if what they were referring to was the short form birth certificate, the court would have told him he need not sue to see the document because it was already posted online. However, the court does not mention this. Either they had their noses in the law books and didn't even bother to check if the document exists ( a strong possibility) or they denied him access to the long form certificate.

Which means that unless the document doesn't exist at all, which would add more suspicion to where Obama was actually born, or there really is a long form in the vault, meaning trusters (anti-birthers) can no longer say Obama showed the proof. If it is an issue, I think the congress should ask for it, considering factcheck.org, a subsidy of the annenberg foundation, where Obama was a chairman on was the one that inspected the document, it is not legitimate unless a government agency investigates it, not a so called independent organization that obviously leans left of which Obama was a part of.

Originally posted by filosophia
Yes, I did read the court's opinion, it said that he was not an immediate family member so he doesn't get to see it. But if what they were referring to was the short form birth certificate, the court would have told him he need not sue to see the document because it was already posted online. However, the court does not mention this.

You say you read the opinion but your post tells me you didn’t. The first sentence on page 2 of the opinion explains what the plaintiff was asking for—

Robert V. Justice (Plaintiff), appearing pro se, filed a complaint, pursuant to the UIPA, seeking an order directing the Department of Health (DOH) of the State of Hawai i to permit him "to inspect and copy" President Obama's original birth certificate.

And yet you want me to believe the judges were unaware exactly what kind of records he wanted to inspect.

Either they had their noses in the law books and didn't even bother to check if the document exists ( a strong possibility) or they denied him access to the long form certificate.

This point still seems to be lost on you: it wasn’t the court’s job to check if the document the plaintiff requested existed or not. They had a legal claim before them arguing the plaintiff had a right to inspect the document, all there was for them to decide was “is the plaintiff right or wrong?” They did that.

Even if they had ruled the plaintiff had a right to inspect the document it would still be beyond their duty to inquiry if the document existed or not. In that case their decision simply meant the Department of Health had to allow the inspection of said document.

Which means that unless the document doesn't exist at all

The Director of the Department of Health of Hawaii already stated she inspected the original record twice and it exists on file, as I mentioned again here.

I think the congress should ask for it, considering factcheck.org, a subsidy of the annenberg foundation, where Obama was a chairman on was the one that inspected the document, it is not legitimate unless a government agency investigates it

A government agency has already investigated it — the Department of Health of Hawaii, which, incidentally, is the agency responsible for all vital records in the state of Hawaii. The Director was appointed by the Republican governor of Hawaii at the time.

It’s irrelevant if you believe factcheck or not. The competent authorities already vouched for Obama’s certificate, and have stated, numerous times, the original record exists on file.

It’s obvious that this isn’t just a question of believing Obama was born in the United States or not. Some of you, irrespective of the information presented, don’t want to believe, so nothing will ever convince you.

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by OldCorp
Assuming there is a long-form birth certificate, what reason could he possibly have for keeping it secret? Because his religion is listed as "Muslim?" Possibly.

Forgot to address this point. Religion is not even specified on a long form birth certificate from Hawaii. Here is a 1962 long form birth certificate, and here is another one from 1963.

It would be easier to sympathize with your arguments if the accusations or suggestions you’re making had a valid basis.

My only "basis" for wondering that is the fact that on MY birth certificate, my parents religion is listed as "Baptist." States being different, Hawaii may not have a space for it.

And yes, state authorities have confirmed there is an original birth certificate filed—

Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files.

Funny that. Governor Abercrombie says he can't find it now, just a written notation that says it exists.
Hawaii Governor Can't Find Birth Certificate.
And the election official who was actually in charge of overseeing the 50-60 people in charge of this type of thing has just today signed a sworn affidavit stating he was told by his superiors that there was no long form BC for Barack Obama, and that he must stop looking for it.

Former Hawaii elections clerk Tim Adams has now signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Barack Obama Jr. in Hawaii and that neither Queens Medical Center nor Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu had any record of Obama having been born in their medical facilities. Hawaii Official Now Swears: No Obama Birth Certificate.

So the man put his name on a legal document that, if proven false, will land him in prison for a few years. I'd like to see Fukino do that.

Now, about being a "natural-born citizen" if you are born on a military base: I owe you an apology on that account because while US EMBASSIES are sovereign US territory, it seems that military bases are NOT. So I was in error on that point.

Still, John McCain's circumstances are far different than those of BHO. It's comparing apples and oranges, not to mention that McCain's citizenship was settled by the Senate during the campaign. I have no idea why we are even talking about him as he is NOT the President, never will be, and the thread is about Obama's eligibility, not McCain's.

ETA: It's been a long day, and I'm still dirty from tilling my garden; my friend's garden; and my mom's garden. I'm gonna hit the rack. We can pick this up another time.

Peace, OC

Originally posted by OldCorp
Still, John McCain's circumstances are far different than those of BHO. It's comparing apples and oranges, not to mention that McCain's citizenship was settled by the Senate during the campaign. I have no idea why we are even talking about him as he is NOT the President, never will be, and the thread is about Obama's eligibility, not McCain's.

And likewise....

H. Res. 593

In the House of Representatives, U. S.,

July 27, 2009.

Whereas August 21, 2009, marks the 50th Anniversary of President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s signing of Proclamation 3309, which admitted Hawaii into the Union in compliance with the Hawaii Admission Act, enacted by the United States Congress on March 18, 1959;

Whereas Hawaii is ‘a place like no other, with a people like no other’ and bridges the mainland United States to the Asia-Pacific region;

Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961;

: Recognizing and celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union

And also as has been mention before, not one voted no...

Yea: 378 (87%)
Nay: 0 (0%)

House Vote On Passage: H. Res. 593

And like has also been mention, most are aware of all of this information. But choose to ignore it and say it doesn't matter because......

Originally posted by OldCorp
, and once again Obama will be FORCED to release his long form BC.

What part of "the state of Hawaii does not issue so called "long form" birth certificates anymore" do you not understand?

This is why birthers are considered a joke, they do not have a clue at all about the reality of what they post here!

The dude is screwed, and the sooner you get behind that simple fact the less painful the revelation of the truth will be for you.

Wrong, the sooner you accept a Obama, a black man, is the legal POTUS the better you will be.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by OldCorp
, and once again Obama will be FORCED to release his long form BC.

What part of "the state of Hawaii does not issue so called "long form" birth certificates anymore" do you not understand?

This is why birthers are considered a joke, they do not have a clue at all about the reality of what they post here!

The dude is screwed, and the sooner you get behind that simple fact the less painful the revelation of the truth will be for you.

Wrong, the sooner you accept a Obama, a black man, is the legal POTUS the better you will be.

edit on 12/4/11 by dereks because: (no reason given)

What part of: these people are lying to protect Obama do you not understand!?

A former official with the Hawaii Department of Health says the computer image of a "Certification of Live Birth" displayed by the Obama campaign in 2008 to demonstrate the candidate's constitutional eligibility as a "natural born citizen" to occupy the Oval Office is the only document the state releases. But testimony and documents from others who have received them from the state simply by requesting them raises questions about the comments of Chiyome Fukino, former head of the state agency in charge of birth records, including those that may reveal details of Barack Obama's 1961 birth. Read more: Does Hawaii ever release long-form birth certificates? www.wnd.com...

In fact, the Hawaii Revised Statutes, Paragraph 38-13(a) specifies that the agency "shall, upon request, furnish an applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof." Further, subparagraph C allows that copies of birth certificates "may be made by photograph, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health." Read more: Does Hawaii ever release long-form birth certificates? www.wnd.com...

Moreover, on Oct. 13, 2010, a contributor with the username "Danae" posted on FreeRepublic.com a copy of her long-form birth certificate originally issued in 1969, but which the Hawaii Department of Health mailed to her on Sept. 28, 2010, after she paid a $10 fee. An image of her posting: Read more: Does Hawaii ever release long-form birth certificates? www.wnd.com...

www.wnd.com...

reply to post by aptness


how do you know the court doesn't know if the document exists or not? Are you assuming this or do you know for sure? Can you show in the article where it says this or are you just assuming what happened in the court room?

Originally posted by dereks


What part of "the state of Hawaii does not issue so called "long form" birth certificates anymore" do you not understand?

what does "anymore" have to do with now?

www.wnd.com...

The birth issue is actually a red herring that hides the more evil things going on with Obama, the birther issue is just a Constitutional law that is also getting ripped in the process. Of course even if he was born in America, he isn't an American, he's a globalist.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Funny that. Governor Abercrombie says he can't find it now, just a written notation that says it exists.

Hawaii Governor Can't Find Birth Certificate.
And the election official who was actually in charge of overseeing the 50-60 people in charge of this type of thing has just today signed a sworn affidavit stating he was told by his superiors that there was no long form BC for Barack Obama, and that he must stop looking for it.

WND lies...it is not a source...it is fringe conservative fiction. They make up sources and quotes. I remember one lawsuit filed against them where they were forced to publicly admit the same...googling now..

Statement from WND

"Discovery has revealed to WorldNetDaily.com that no witness verifies the truth of what the witnesses are reported by authors to have stated. Additionally, no document has been discovered that provides any verification that the statements written were true.

www.sourcewatch.org...

Honestly...you would be better off providing the National enquirer as a source.

Originally posted by OldCorp
Funny that. Governor Abercrombie says he can't find it now

I know that’s what the title, of yet another, WND article says, but that same WND article also quotes Abercrombie saying “‘it was actually written, I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down,’ Abercrombie said.”

Putting aside for a moment the fact the governor doesn’t have access to the vital records, even if Abercrombie claimed no birth certificate existed why would you take a Democrat governor’s word over the previous Republican governor and the Director of the Department of Health, appointed by that Republican governor, the person with legal authority to inspect everyone’s vital records? Makes no sense to me.

This is a pattern in this birther movement. Hearsay of Obama’s birth in Kenya takes precedent over official statements from US authorities. Kenyan birth certificates are accepted at face value, and a certificate issued and vouched by US state authorities, and inspected by different US organizations is discarded and doubted. I don’t get it.

It’s as if you are constantly looking for excuses to disbelief Obama was born in the United States.

Former Hawaii elections clerk Tim Adams has now signed an affidavit swearing he was told by his supervisors in Hawaii that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Barack Obama Jr. in Hawaii ...

So the man put his name on a legal document that, if proven false, will land him in prison for a few years. I'd like to see Fukino do that.

Here’s what Tim Adams’ supervisor had to say to the Washington Post—

I checked with Glen Takahashi, the administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk's office, and while he verified that Adams worked there, he explained – gently making it clear he did not want to "call anyone a liar" -- that Adams never actually had access to information about Barack Obama.

"Our office does not have access to birth records," Takahashi said. "That's handled by the state of Hawaii Department of Health. Where he's getting that, I don't know. Put it this way: Barack Obama was not trying to register to vote in Hawaii. He is, as far as I know, not a registered voter here. So no one was looking that up."

Takahashi explained that the "senior elections clerk" job that Adams held was a low-level data entry position dealing with voter registration and absentee ballots -- Adams was one of dozens of temporary employees who staffed the pre-election rush. And he contradicted Adams's claims that Obama's lack of a birth certificate was an "open secret" or that voters contacted the office to ask about it.

"To be honest, I fielded no questions about that," Takahashi said. "Why would anyone ask us? We don't have those records."

Now, about being a "natural-born citizen" if you are born on a military base: I owe you an apology on that account because while US EMBASSIES are sovereign US territory, it seems that military bases are NOT. So I was in error on that point.

I appreciate your words.

For 14th Amendment purposes, military bases and embassies are the same. Being born in a military base or diplomatic facility abroad doesn’t grant US citizenship by reason of birth.

Still, John McCain's circumstances are far different than those of BHO.

I agree. McCain, we know, was born outside the United States, and Obama, according to all credible evidence and the relevant authorities, was born in the United States.

not to mention that McCain's citizenship was settled by the Senate during the campaign.

That was a non-binding resolution, though. Non-binding resolutions have no legal weight, it’s merely the Senate’s opinion. Congress can’t just declare someone a natural born citizen, otherwise the clause in the constitution is meaningless.

I have no idea why we are even talking about him as he is NOT the President, never will be, and the thread is about Obama's eligibility, not McCain's.

I brought it up to demonstrate the birthers’ double standards. By the birthers definition of natural born citizen, McCain isn’t eligible. The birthers rely on Vattel’s alleged definition of born of citizen parents and in the country. McCain was born to citizen parents, but wasn’t born in the country.

Yet how many lawsuits were there, before the election, contesting McCain’s eligibility? One. And how many threads about McCain’s eligibility here on ATS? I counted 3.

As I’ve stated before, if McCain had won I had no problem with him serving, I am against the natural born citizen clause. But McCain serves to demonstrate the birthers, contrary to what they tell us, aren’t solely motivated by their desire to see the “Constitution upheld.”