Why is pro choice only a women decision?

Very simply, I have been in two committed relationships where the women has had a pre determined mental condition I was not informed of, I involved myself and progressed the relationship to the point we lived together.

During a committed relationship when your significant other assures you she is on birth control, what man would continue to buy and wear condoms? Most people who either suffer from Bi polar disorder or Borderline personality disorder all feel the same way, they think the more they sink themselves into the relationship, the more they control and can manipulate the situation.

Having been lied too outright, manipulated and ultimately abused by my significant other, I now have the state telling me, it is this crazy girls decisions alone that rules the day and I am powerless to make any decision. I guess I should of wore a condom with the girl I have been with for 2 years, that I live with, who told me she was on birth control............ So my fault.

So now, I guess I will have the state telling me how much and how often I need to pay this women, not based on how much it actually costs to raise a child but by how much I make? Huh? This seems like a bad dream or a bad joke but it's not, it happens every day in America and millions upon millions of tax dollars are spent on jailing beat dead dads whose only crime was being duped by a mentally defective girl who thought it would fix all there problems.

Debtors prison is alive and well and it comes in the form of contempt of court for child support and alimony. Don't get me wrong, I take care of my kids, but I don't need my government telling me how much of a percentage basis it takes to do so.

I make 36k dollars a year and I pay a percentage on that but if I made 20 million a year Id pay the same percentage and guess what....... Doesn't cost that much to raise a kid........

I have got some private messages so I will say simply this:

If women want to yell on the highest hill about how it is your body, your body alone and you have the ultimate and sole choice then why would you ask the state to step in only when your unwilling partner who you lied too doesn't want the kid and you want state benefits and child support.

If the state doesen't have a choice in one, they shouldn't have a choice in the other....

It doesn't work both ways in logic thinking, only in American government......

With all due respect, to you, and your potential spawn...
NO matter what...
wear a condom.. if you don't want kids/don't want to pay to raise kids..
wear a CONDOM.

reply to post by Weeeden


With all due respect. If a women has the right to either accept or deny a child. The man should also have the same right without disrespecting the womens body. The man should have the right to deny rights and the child outright due to manipulation and entrapment by the women.

It is simply a counter balance to a system that is just incredibly unfair and biased towered women and has been implemented under a false sense of national morals that does not take into account of malicious acts due to national bankruptcy and the need to steer single mothers off of public dependence.

Deny ignorance.

Originally posted by Weeeden
With all due respect, to you, and your potential spawn...
NO matter what...
wear a condom.. if you don't want kids/don't want to pay to raise kids..
wear a CONDOM.

edit on 7-4-2011 by Weeeden because: (no reason given)

Also, this post is slightly offensive to me the more I look at it. Ill go ahead and spread my legs, no big deal, if you don't wan't to knock me up, wear a condom regardless of what I told you. Is that what your saying? No wonder we have so many gay threads here on ATS.

First of all: Why did this thread get flagged?

Second of all: Bitter much?

You don't even stick to the title, instead going off on a rant about "manipulative" women.

I didn't say it was fair at all!! I just said that if you don't want kids, take control of things and wear a condom! I don't think it's fair AT all!!! I think it's ridiculous that men get wrangled in and have to pay for kids they don't want!
My dad fought for YEARS to not have to pay for me and my brother.. we felt the brunt of it. It sucked.
If you don't want kids, make sure you don't have any! Then, when you find someone you want to create life with, THEN take the condom off..
no offense was meant ) Promise!

Edited to add that I didn't flag, AND what do gay threads have to do with anything????

Edited AGAIN to add that my brother and I were born IN wedlock, I was conceived after my sister died of SIDS, I guess as a replacement.. (fine by me).. and then my dad decided he wanted to be married to someone else.. sOOoo my mom didn't wrangle him into anything..

reply to post by Helious


I think it's b/s how men have no say in nothin. Ok I'm the woman i'm naming the baby,I'm getting custody of the baby and I can run to China if I want and their aint nothing you can do. P.S. If I want to have an abortion you have no say in that either.

Well since the woman gets all them get out of jail cards. Maybe men shouldn't have to pay child support. Now don't get it twisted I think it takes both parents. But it's insane how women cheat the system. If a woman doesn't wanna work all her life all she has to do is have 3 puppies and draw child support and she doesn't have to work.

I know a couple of personal cases like this. I believe since it's genetically linked to 2 people. 2 people need to have a say in the childs life. Not 1.

It is wrong that she manipulated you and If that happened to me i'd be extremely pissed off. But, you should know better man. Anything can happen once the condom comes off, even birth control is not 100%. If you don't want kids, do your part, wear a rubber. Now, if you caught her stealing sperm out of your disposed condom, that's a whole different story.

I totally agree with you on the percentage based payment though. Well, it should still be percentage based...but with a maximum.

Originally posted by The Sword
First of all: Why did this thread get flagged?

Second of all: Bitter much?

You don't even stick to the title, instead going off on a rant about "manipulative" women.

Umm, get your facts straight. The simple fact is, as a man, if I really want a baby that was conceived with my significant other, she could at ANY point just say, nah, im not feeling it and have it aborted.

I, myself, as a man, have 0 choice regardless of the situation on anything. There needs to be a level playing field because this is being used as a job across America.

Women are saying that NO ONE can decide what they do with there bodies but at the same time they are saying after they make the LONE decision to do something with there body even though it involved somebody else at least 50% of the process the state now must dictate actions.

See, you can't have it both ways, you can't say the state has no control of your body and then say the state must dictate action based upon what you decided with your body......

I beg you, please try to argue this...

Firstly - I am female and I too believe the right to abortion is mine
Secondly - When my child's farther split, I was told by the govenment here that I could not claim any sort of payment from them (sole parent payment) UNTIL I persued my Ex for child payment EVEN THOUGH I point blank told them I did not want to
Thirdly - I have sat there and heard the female beside me state "Oh that's ok .... I will just get pregnant"

Before you start flaming the OP please believe that there are people do this as a planned, conscience decision
If my partner of 2 years told me "I am on birth control" - I would believe them too
Before getting on your soup box and complaining about the OP being a monster/dead beat/butthead
Please remember he is questioning the governments rules and regs here and how he is getting screwed - at least that is what I saw
Take a breath people before you press reply

Originally posted by Nemain73
Firstly - I am female and I too believe the right to abortion is mine
Secondly - When my child's farther split, I was told by the govenment here that I could not claim any sort of payment from them (sole parent payment) UNTIL I persued my Ex for child payment EVEN THOUGH I point blank told them I did not want to
Thirdly - I have sat there and heard the female beside me state "Oh that's ok .... I will just get pregnant"

Before you start flaming the OP please believe that there are people do this as a planned, conscience decision
If my partner of 2 years told me "I am on birth control" - I would believe them too
Before getting on your soup box and complaining about the OP being a monster/dead beat/butthead
Please remember he is questioning the governments rules and regs here and how he is getting screwed - at least that is what I saw
Take a breath people before you press reply

I get irritated when I am inclined to spend five thousand dollars on a personal lawyer that just states facts that should be blatantly obvious to a just court of law that actually does what it says and upholds laws based on civil and constitutional rights. Our justice system is so corrupt I don't know what to even say anymore, this issue too me it on the forefront because it insults my basic sensibilities.

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by The Sword
First of all: Why did this thread get flagged?

Second of all: Bitter much?

You don't even stick to the title, instead going off on a rant about "manipulative" women.

Umm, get your facts straight. The simple fact is, as a man, if I really want a baby that was conceived with my significant other, she could at ANY point just say, nah, im not feeling it and have it aborted.

I, myself, as a man, have 0 choice regardless of the situation on anything. There needs to be a level playing field because this is being used as a job across America.

Women are saying that NO ONE can decide what they do with there bodies but at the same time they are saying after they make the LONE decision to do something with there body even though it involved somebody else at least 50% of the process the state now must dictate actions.

See, you can't have it both ways, you can't say the state has no control of your body and then say the state must dictate action based upon what you decided with your body......

I beg you, please try to argue this...

edit on 7-4-2011 by Helious because: (no reason given)

And usually, that is where the conversation ends with comments like yours. You can't argue it because the reality of it is outrageous. You can't have a disparity between men and women to this extent and expect relationships to work. This is probably the biggest reason divorce rates are so high.

This is happening in most countries of the world. The men need to be very very careful.

There have been cases in my country where women would marry wealthy men and then divorce taking half the wealth with them, while bragging about it to everyone.

There are just too many cases of things like this happening to people.

I'm not seeing any concern from the OP as pertains to his child

Instead, all I'm seeing is fury about having to financially support that child

So this is a thread about money -- is that correct ? A rant about having to pay money to support a child ?

.

All comes down to money, apparently - and an attempt to disguise that by complaining about pro-choice

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Weeeden

 

With all due respect. If a women has the right to either accept or deny a child. The man should also have the same right without disrespecting the womens body. The man should have the right to deny rights and the child outright due to manipulation and entrapment by the women.

It is simply a counter balance to a system that is just incredibly unfair and biased towered women and has been implemented under a false sense of national morals that does not take into account of malicious acts due to national bankruptcy and the need to steer single mothers off of public dependence.

Deny ignorance.

And can she request that you have a body part removed in return? That would add balance.

reply to post by Dock9


My concern and I guess the Op's concern is the fact (or stated fact) that he was assured by his significant other that she was on birth control. That means that the fact that she got pregnant was her own fault (and possibly was done intentionally). If I was the OP I would take the custody of the child, and tell my SO to get the hell out of there, for I will not trust a person who has lied to me for one second in my house.

Why is pro choice only a women decision?

It's only a womans choice because of the law is as straightforward as ppl think it is when it comes to abortion.

ppl often approach the subject like it's a simple thing, but that is far from the reality.

At the core of it is that people can refuse any medical attention even if they will die (right to privacy).

Similarly a pregnant woman can refuse an operation that would save her life in a wanted pregnancy (right to privacy).

What most people don't understand or deliberately ignore is that zygote fetuses and embryos do not have any rights that trump the womans.

In fact no person born has rights pro-lifers want the unborn to have. Unborns are not even people under the law, late pregnancy offers some protection against elective abortions but none that overrides the mothers health.

Basically you have an issue with the right to privacy. Google some info on it in regards to abortion.

reply to post by elouina


I think when a woman says she is on birth control, get it WRITTEN, and make that paper a legal document by whatever means necessary, then and only then stop wearing condoms.

reply to post by kaleshchand


Yeah, there should be a legal contract, similar to a prenup, that could protect us guys, who make it clear from the getgo, we don't want to bring kids into this crap world. If she decides to have a kid she is on her own.