IT'S YOUR BODY YOUR CHOICE!
..to wear a franger.
I have heard a few guys say "but she said she was on the pill!".. but hearing a woman say that does not prevent pregnancy.. and even if she is
telling he truth the pill is NOT a 100% guarenteed to stop pregnancy anyway.
Why is pro choice only a women decision?, page 4
reply posted on 8-4-2011 @ 07:54 AM by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Helious
This may be how you would LIKE it to be or how you think it should be, but that's not how it IS. It sounds like you may be in denial. The things you said definitely aren't "facts" as you state. Calling people "socialists" isn't going to make any difference. That's not factual either.
Let me ask you this: If a woman gave you AIDS, would she have a choice in what you do about it? Just because you got it from her? NO! That's YOUR body and YOU have exclusive rights over it. The FACT is a woman DOES have exclusive right over her body, no matter the circumstance. Just because you've had your penis in her doesn't mean you have any right to her or her body for gestation purposes.
And IF a child results, now we have a PERSON, who is your responsibility. You took the chance, took a risk and lost.
You seem to want to appear as an innocent victim in all this. You had no say in anything? Were you forcefully raped? Because unless you were raped, you HAD your say. You chose to engage in sex, knowing that she may get pregnant. You CHOSE to disregard your own responsibility as regards birth control.
YOU GAVE UP YOUR SAY. You gave all the choices to her and now you're complaining about what she did with it.
Birth control is EVERYONE'S responsibility! You shirked your responsibility and don't like paying the price. I SO wish guys would realize that they have a responsibility to prevent pregnancy.
This may be how you would LIKE it to be or how you think it should be, but that's not how it IS. It sounds like you may be in denial. The things you said definitely aren't "facts" as you state. Calling people "socialists" isn't going to make any difference. That's not factual either.
Let me ask you this: If a woman gave you AIDS, would she have a choice in what you do about it? Just because you got it from her? NO! That's YOUR body and YOU have exclusive rights over it. The FACT is a woman DOES have exclusive right over her body, no matter the circumstance. Just because you've had your penis in her doesn't mean you have any right to her or her body for gestation purposes.
And IF a child results, now we have a PERSON, who is your responsibility. You took the chance, took a risk and lost.
Originally posted by Helious
If the father has no say weather the child ever lives or dies, if the father has no say in anything, the father can not be liable for anything the mother chooses to do with her body.
You seem to want to appear as an innocent victim in all this. You had no say in anything? Were you forcefully raped? Because unless you were raped, you HAD your say. You chose to engage in sex, knowing that she may get pregnant. You CHOSE to disregard your own responsibility as regards birth control.
YOU GAVE UP YOUR SAY. You gave all the choices to her and now you're complaining about what she did with it.
Birth control is EVERYONE'S responsibility! You shirked your responsibility and don't like paying the price. I SO wish guys would realize that they have a responsibility to prevent pregnancy.
reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 11:12 PM by korathin
reply to post by Helious
For starters throw out everything you think you know about the "gender war"(which has been over before it began) and throw out what women, mangina's and white knights say.
Start with this pretense: Some women want to drive(Gynocracy) and some women want to be driven(Matriarchy).
In the beginning due to the sheer struggle of life, women who wanted a gynocracy where SOL. So the Matriarchy expanded with the help of "little men" like Henry Ford aka white knights/slaves of the Matriarchy(Ford was big into the Matriarchy).
In the classical American "Matriarchy"(You really have to research the "Mothers of the Republic" or you have zero credible with modern gender issue's), single men> then single women to be sure. But Mothers> all the above. They view it as their Divine right to have children and lord over their families. The modern equivalent would be Palin's Mama bears or whatever they call themselves.
Make no mistake about it those kind of women aren't any mans friend or ally. They view us as sub-human and only seek to boost our ego for their direct benefit, as in their perfect world we are to be good little wage slaves and defenders of the home.
Well to move along, the 1940's happened. Because of propaganda during wartime and the sheer level of male conscription leading to a true brotherhood among American males, the American Patriarchy truly emerged for less then a decade. Before that time period and after men had to put up with women(remember before the 1920's radical groups like the KKK acted as alimony and child support enforcers) or risk severe consequences.
It was only during the 1950's that men really where Kings of the castle. Unfortunately our greatest attributes where our undoing. The male propensity for gregariousness led directly to the rise of feminism and the current gynocracy. Feminism only out-flanked the old matriarchy because of patronage from the new patriarchy.
In most of American history the patriarchy was nothing more then a lap dog that occasionally freed itself from the leash of the Matriarchy.
Well now that the feminist's got into social power they began to transform our society into a gynocracy. It is where women themselves become viewed as being "divine" because they are women alone(while the matriarchy requires motherhood as the main ingredient of power). In this new paradigm women only truly want consorts, not husbands. Hence the high divorce rate and out of wedlock rates. And in a gynocracy women still view men as "sub-human", same as in the old matriarchy. But the main difference is that in order for the gynocracy to last they need to lower the male ego and destroy any chance of male bonding(hence why fathers get shafted and why male only organizations and schools are all but extinct while female only is the new rage).
Add in the Pathocracy effect and it becomes obvious if your a male in Western Civilization your SOL.
Because you have to break society into three portions. The Political Sphere, Economic Sphere and the Social/Family Sphere. The Matriarchy was content with just the Social/Family Sphere and with a minor presence in the Political Sphere, the Gynocracy wants control over all three Spheres leaving men to become slaves(if we are lucky).
Listen to the way the average woman talks like "since men ruled the last 10k years maybe it is time for women", and other bigoted nonsense that just isn't backed by the facts of reality. If we value our freedoms and our human identity we have no choice but to allow this society to fall and ensure that both the older matriarchy and the newer gynocracy are destroyed by foreign invaders.
Look at how brainwashed "little men" are here, how quickly they become Cain Jr, ready to kill Abel Jr or sell Abel Jr off to slavery to appease the women here who feel they are entitled to another persons labor, like that person is a slave they own rights to.
There is no hope for Justice in Western Civilization so Western Civilization must fall.
You can look further into this, but all you will find is despair. Please I invite everyone to do a rational study of the concept's I bring up, but beware the truth. Because once something is learned it can't be unlearned.
For starters throw out everything you think you know about the "gender war"(which has been over before it began) and throw out what women, mangina's and white knights say.
Start with this pretense: Some women want to drive(Gynocracy) and some women want to be driven(Matriarchy).
In the beginning due to the sheer struggle of life, women who wanted a gynocracy where SOL. So the Matriarchy expanded with the help of "little men" like Henry Ford aka white knights/slaves of the Matriarchy(Ford was big into the Matriarchy).
In the classical American "Matriarchy"(You really have to research the "Mothers of the Republic" or you have zero credible with modern gender issue's), single men> then single women to be sure. But Mothers> all the above. They view it as their Divine right to have children and lord over their families. The modern equivalent would be Palin's Mama bears or whatever they call themselves.
Make no mistake about it those kind of women aren't any mans friend or ally. They view us as sub-human and only seek to boost our ego for their direct benefit, as in their perfect world we are to be good little wage slaves and defenders of the home.
Well to move along, the 1940's happened. Because of propaganda during wartime and the sheer level of male conscription leading to a true brotherhood among American males, the American Patriarchy truly emerged for less then a decade. Before that time period and after men had to put up with women(remember before the 1920's radical groups like the KKK acted as alimony and child support enforcers) or risk severe consequences.
It was only during the 1950's that men really where Kings of the castle. Unfortunately our greatest attributes where our undoing. The male propensity for gregariousness led directly to the rise of feminism and the current gynocracy. Feminism only out-flanked the old matriarchy because of patronage from the new patriarchy.
In most of American history the patriarchy was nothing more then a lap dog that occasionally freed itself from the leash of the Matriarchy.
Well now that the feminist's got into social power they began to transform our society into a gynocracy. It is where women themselves become viewed as being "divine" because they are women alone(while the matriarchy requires motherhood as the main ingredient of power). In this new paradigm women only truly want consorts, not husbands. Hence the high divorce rate and out of wedlock rates. And in a gynocracy women still view men as "sub-human", same as in the old matriarchy. But the main difference is that in order for the gynocracy to last they need to lower the male ego and destroy any chance of male bonding(hence why fathers get shafted and why male only organizations and schools are all but extinct while female only is the new rage).
Add in the Pathocracy effect and it becomes obvious if your a male in Western Civilization your SOL.
Because you have to break society into three portions. The Political Sphere, Economic Sphere and the Social/Family Sphere. The Matriarchy was content with just the Social/Family Sphere and with a minor presence in the Political Sphere, the Gynocracy wants control over all three Spheres leaving men to become slaves(if we are lucky).
Listen to the way the average woman talks like "since men ruled the last 10k years maybe it is time for women", and other bigoted nonsense that just isn't backed by the facts of reality. If we value our freedoms and our human identity we have no choice but to allow this society to fall and ensure that both the older matriarchy and the newer gynocracy are destroyed by foreign invaders.
Look at how brainwashed "little men" are here, how quickly they become Cain Jr, ready to kill Abel Jr or sell Abel Jr off to slavery to appease the women here who feel they are entitled to another persons labor, like that person is a slave they own rights to.
There is no hope for Justice in Western Civilization so Western Civilization must fall.
You can look further into this, but all you will find is despair. Please I invite everyone to do a rational study of the concept's I bring up, but beware the truth. Because once something is learned it can't be unlearned.
edit on 8-5-2011 by korathin because: changed "pretense" to
presense-
reply posted on 8-5-2011 @ 11:29 PM by riley
reply to post by ShadesofGrey78
Ultimately men cannot have final say without making women their property.. but (assuming it happened the way you said it did) what that chick did to you was just really low. If she was the type to just change her mind on a whim and take off and abort a planned pregnancy you were both emotionally investing in then it doesn't say much for her overall charactor or the potential of the relationship itself. What kind of mother would she have made? I can understand your loss but the woman doesn't sound like she was very stable anyway.
Ultimately men cannot have final say without making women their property.. but (assuming it happened the way you said it did) what that chick did to you was just really low. If she was the type to just change her mind on a whim and take off and abort a planned pregnancy you were both emotionally investing in then it doesn't say much for her overall charactor or the potential of the relationship itself. What kind of mother would she have made? I can understand your loss but the woman doesn't sound like she was very stable anyway.
edit on 8-5-2011 by riley because: (no
reason given)
reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 12:18 AM by riley
reply to post by korathin
Your posts aren't really on subject at all but seem to focus more on your own hatred of women collectively. Could you tone it down a bit please? Your posts are kind of creepy. Actual women post here and feminists are not all evil and not about enslaving men.
Your posts aren't really on subject at all but seem to focus more on your own hatred of women collectively. Could you tone it down a bit please? Your posts are kind of creepy. Actual women post here and feminists are not all evil and not about enslaving men.
edit on 9-5-2011 by riley
because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 12:47 AM by korathin
Originally posted by riley
reply to post by korathin
Your posts aren't really on subject at all but seem to focus more on your own hatred of women collectively. Could you tone it down a bit please? Your posts are kind of creepy. Actual women post here and feminists are not all evil and not about enslaving men.edit on 9-5-2011 by riley because: (no reason given)
Women are human beings. Human beings are all of the above(from good to evil). All that matters is how society reacts and how social structures are structured. If a social structure allows for one group to be enslaved by another group then the group that is at risk for slavery must assume they will become a slave.
If the situation was reversed my post would be a reverse, if you find the facts of reality creepy that isn't my problem. If you disagree with me prove me wrong. Till then defame someone Else's character.
This is why there never really was a talk between men and women. Because when ever a man say's something disagreeable about women= misogynist; while if a similar reverse situation happens it is "yes dear, sorry dear".
Anyone who views themselves as should having superior rights because of gender or race is inherently evil. Actually I think I have been harsher towards the "white knights" and "mangina's" as they are brainwashed fools.
Because as I said before women are human beings too. If the situation was reversed it wouldn't surprise me if a large percentage of men abused the system. Because men are human beings too. Personally I think the OP should just save up and sue for custody or atleast aim to get half/joint custody.
But ignoring the arrogance and supremacist attitudes of others is just something I cannot do, something I will not do. So if I am wrong I implore you to prove me wrong.
----------
Actually my first post is on topic, as I am telling the op how things got the way they are and explaining the history of the current social/political and economic structures. The second is more so a sarcastic reply to someone I perceive as being chauvinistic.
Throwing a pity patty and excusing the OP's self loathing will do no good. Nor would demonization or belittlement do any good either. Only an explanation of why things are messed up will enable the OP see a reasonable and rational way forward. I have seen people I associated with vaguely or were friends with driven to suicide or near suicide because they had to pay an excessive amount for the "mothers child", that they where both denied a meaningful role in and prevented them from starting a family the right way.
The way I see it if the custodial parent can't afford to raise the child then they shouldn't have custody. And if the non-custodial parent(or non-custodial parents family) doesn't want to raise the child then and only then should the courts be allowed to garnish the non-custodial parents wages.
Make no mistake I am not endorsing mindless sex nor am I endorsing slavery or peonage. Eventually both parties(both male and female) should have some foresight when engaging in sex. Women shouldn't be sleeping with men that would abandon them or their offspring; and men shouldn't be sleeping with women that would enslave them or deny them a meaningful role in raising their child.
As per the larger social apathy I endorse, why should men be made to fight and defend a society that hates us? Heck if I said abortion should be outlawed, men should get defacto custody+ alimony/child support then everyone here would label me a misogynist in a heart beat. Yet everyone can demand those things of males and it is viewed as "normal" and "good"? That is a pill I can't swallow. + Add in other anti-male discrimination going on in society and it is clear from a uniquely male perspective that this society isn't worth defending.
edit on 9-5-2011 by korathin because: (no
reason given)
reply posted on 9-5-2011 @ 08:22 AM by ShadesofGrey78
reply to post by riley
Unfortunately it happened exactly the way I described it-like something out of a Jerry Springer show. I came to the same conclusion you did a long time ago-she would not have been a good mother anyway.
However, that does not lessen the pain of the abortion. I would have been a damn good father. When she expressed her regrets over having the abortion, she admitted she should have let me have sole custody because she knew the child would be better off with me.
As for her stability, she was the type of person that seemingly has their act together on the outside-highly educated, good career, lots of friends, personable, down to earth, etc.
However, she had sociopathic tendencies and was very skilled at hiding it. I found out too late. However, I learned a lot from that relationship (mainly what to avoid) and have moved on.
Unfortunately it happened exactly the way I described it-like something out of a Jerry Springer show. I came to the same conclusion you did a long time ago-she would not have been a good mother anyway.
However, that does not lessen the pain of the abortion. I would have been a damn good father. When she expressed her regrets over having the abortion, she admitted she should have let me have sole custody because she knew the child would be better off with me.
As for her stability, she was the type of person that seemingly has their act together on the outside-highly educated, good career, lots of friends, personable, down to earth, etc.
However, she had sociopathic tendencies and was very skilled at hiding it. I found out too late. However, I learned a lot from that relationship (mainly what to avoid) and have moved on.
edit on 9-5-2011 by ShadesofGrey78 because: (no reason given)
Can You Love Someone Who is NOT Physically Attractive To You?
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