Qur'an burning free speech in America?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Fromabove
Burning a Bible or urinating on a Bible will not deter any Christian. It's a matter between God and the offending person. God is more than capable of defending Himself.

Wait, if it were the case, how come (so-called) Christians decided to burn a stupid book? Why bother, if as you say God would defend himself?

I just hate gaps in logic. Not cool.

The gap in locic occurs when we mistakenly believe the actions of one man (or more) speak in any way for the entire so called 'group'. Unfortunately it is also the' logic' used to invade countries and hold the whole accountable for the actions of a tiny few.

Originally posted by badw0lf
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

This reminds me of Star Trek, when the civilised Star Fleet encounter a barbaric race that have idiotic customs and ways and it's star fleet who have to bend to suit them....
Every time...

"Shh don't offend the Klingons, they're a violent and angry people.... "

Dude, Klingons live in a distant Galaxy and it's likely you will get a 100 Muslims next door in the next 10 years, if you don't already.

It's beside the point though because normally Muslims are cool people. We have some @ss backward parts of the planet, though, where we are exposing our emissaries to grave danger by doing something unnecessary.

Get this -- a schmuck did something stupid for his own PR. Others get to pay. Seems fair?

Look, you have the RIGHT to burn any book you want. It's unconstitutional to prohibit anyone from expressing their views or ideologies, and that includes burning a Holy Document.

However, you also have a right to dress in a Nazi uniform and march through a Jewish neighborhood.

In other words: You may have the right, but you shouldn't abuse the right like many have done. This goes with burning the Quran.

Ever try to burn a flag on a Saturday night outside a midwestern redneck beer joint?

I wouldn't.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Burning things by deffinition , in any situation simply cannot be classed as "freedom of speech" as its not an action which is being spoken or written ... its simply an action by some crazed christians which by doing it make them as bad or as the crazed muslims (who by no means speak for all or any of the muslim religion) they have an irational fear and problem with!

anyone who agrees that burning any other religions "book" is a good idea is a pure and simple idiot as it will never lead to any good... it only serves to insult people.

Honestly, its just a book imo. Truly an immature act by the burner, but also an immature outrage by the Muslims. If they just simply cannot realize the teachings are of more importance than the book, it's a sure sign of immaturity and materialism dominating the mind on their part.

Originally posted by broahes
Reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

burning a book didn't lead to anyones death, people with a deep mental disturbance did. If someone goes out and kills someone because of something I say or do.. Not my fault. Period.. Anyone that doesn't understand that can gladly line up and hand over their freedoms.. I'll keep minen thanks.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

But by your argument, someone like Charles Manson should be free, right? After all, he never killed anyone. Other people acted on his words.
I agree, free speech is something we as Americans cherish and should always fight for. That being said, you can't stand up in a crowded theater and yell fire without being held responsible for whatever happens after.
For the sake of this argument. I think what this pastor is doing is reprehensible, as well as a good portion of people in his said faith. I don't get these people. Jesus didn't show up at midnight 2000 to save all of them and punish all of us and now alot of these Christians seem to have lost their minds. Do they think that if they somehow make bible prophecy come true that God is gonna build their mansion on the gold paved street himself? Are they that arrogant to think that they are God's little self annointed helpers? This church held a trial and found a book guilty? Because of the violence in it? And as always, they kind of forget all the little tales of blood and bedlam in their own book. Killing neighbors over farming on the sabbath, killing their child because God told them to. People being stoned to death, crucifictions, talking snakes, etc.
I wonder what the verdict would be if the Bible was put on trial.

I don't understand why they were so upset in the first place. It's not like they could have read the book. I assure you not one of them could have read it. The people that read it to them and showed them the video of the burning book OBVIOUSLY don't tell them what's really in it.

Maybe what they were really upset about is that the Idiot that calls himself a pastor (a complete and utter fraud and I'm sure will get what he deserves probably a law suit from the victims families) has the freedoms that he has.

No there shouldn't be a limit to our freedom of speech. I don't personally care If they get offended. My only concern is the additional dangers it put's on our troops. Like today we lost two from a afghan cop opening fire on them while they were training them. Our brothers in arms shouldn't be there. You can't help people out of the stone age. They have to evolve.

The murders should be Identified and Killed. That is what you do with cancer like that. You plant them.

Originally posted by prolific
Honestly, its just a book imo. Truly an immature act by the burner, but also an immature outrage by the Muslims. If they just simply cannot realize the teachings are of more importance than the book, it's a sure sign of immaturity and materialism dominating the mind on their part.

So I would like to think that WE have more maturity and insight than the OTHERS. I would like it this way. Sadly, some dim-witted schmuck needs to ruin everything. I can't speak for the Muslims but I'm ashamed this sad excuse of a human being (the pastor or whoever else that tit-face was) calls himself a Christian.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by prolific
Honestly, its just a book imo. Truly an immature act by the burner, but also an immature outrage by the Muslims. If they just simply cannot realize the teachings are of more importance than the book, it's a sure sign of immaturity and materialism dominating the mind on their part.

So I would like to think that WE have more maturity and insight than the OTHERS. I would like it this way. Sadly, some dim-witted schmuck needs to ruin everything. I can't speak for the Muslims but I'm ashamed this sad excuse of a human being (the pastor or whoever else that tit-face was) calls himself a Christian.

No. I would hope that some Muslims would have the maturity and insight too. Sadly the same outrage would happen if the burning of let's say the Bible would happen. Either way you look at it, the burning of any religious doctrine that has been printed at some factory and bought for a sum of cash will definitely provoke outrage. Until people realize it's just a book, with whatever faith it is affiliated with, similar reactions will occur.

Does burning Dianetics count?

Tell me why Charles Manson is behind bars if you go on the same principal if someone goes out and kills someone after they got the idea after something I said, not my fault. Your're mother always said if someone jumped off a bridge would you? Same thing here, freedom of speech is not protected other wise Charles Manson would be free. Just because he told someone to do something, is not the same as him doing it or paying for it to be done in my book!

I own a copy of the Qur'an. I have read it. I find it to be holy in no way, shape or form whatsoever. I consider it to be a complete work of fiction and treat it the same that I would a Sunday newspaper. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities. Sorry if my freedom is too much for you to handle. It looks like the fundamentalist Muslims are going to have to adapt to MY freedoms, not me adapting to theirs.

I would hate to burn my Qur'an or ANY of my various copies of religious books or ANY of my books for that matter but I will not let anyone try and bully and intimidate me with threats of violence or death if I do not treat this work of fiction as holy. I will intentionally burn it to ashes and post it on youtube just to show these men of will what will is.

Originally posted by notsofunnyguy
Here's my take on this whole mess:

2. The pastor knew this act, if made known, would anger people around the world. He wanted this exact effect, which is why he filmed his act and put it on youtube (as opposed to taking the batteries out of his smoke detector in his bedroom and burning the book there, for example).

edit on 5-4-2011 by notsofunnyguy because: (no reason given)

Proof? How did he know? Nobody KNOWS anything until it actually happens.

I would be willing to bet, if the tables were turned...if a Muslim burned a bible and the pastor killed some Muslims over it, you would take the Muslim's side. That's how the twisted mind of liberals works. The American/Christian/Conservative is always wrong, no matter the case.

You can't blame two different people for the same crime. In this case, one party is inside the law and the other party is outside the law. It really is that simple. Whether or not YOU agree with that law is another topic altogether and beside the point. Remember, the point of the 1st Amendment is to protect unpopular speech. We wouldn't need it for popular speech! It is vitally important to understand this. You can't pick and choose which cases the constitution applies to and which it doesn't, based on the whim of a few. You could argue that the majority of Americans believe pornography is amoral and should be outlawed. That would make it unpopular. But, regardless of it's popularity, it is legal because of the 1st Amendment.

Originally posted by indigo_fleshlight
Does burning Dianetics count?

Sure, but you'd get the Overlord Zumu on your @rse.

Originally posted by General.Lee
I would be willing to bet, if the tables were turned...if a Muslim burned a bible and the pastor killed some Muslims over it, you would take the Muslim's side. That's how the twisted mind of liberals works.

Are you nuts? And, what side would YOU be on? Would you really say it was OK to kill said Muslims?

Originally posted by prolific
Honestly, its just a book imo. Truly an immature act by the burner, but also an immature outrage by the Muslims. If they just simply cannot realize the teachings are of more importance than the book, it's a sure sign of immaturity and materialism dominating the mind on their part.

Wow, really? Murder has nothing to do with maturity. How old are YOU? This is actually very typical radical Islam behavior. Happens all the time. They've been killing and beheading for decades if not centuries. Am I to believe this has something to do with how "mature" they are? I don't think so.

This has to do with being outright psychopathic killers, not quite the same as somebody exercising poor judgement, (ie. the pastor). It's no wonder this world is so screwed up; we have people like you drawing moral equivalence between poor judgement and brutal murder. Just unbelievable. Try not to breed.

Unfortunately in the United States peoples rights are protected (First Amendment, freedom of speech)...so that even somebody burning an American flag is protected under this Amendment.

"The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances"

So yes it is considered free speech in the U.S.

Yes it's free speech, but everything has consequences.

Would any white person walk up to a black person and say the n-word? Why not? It's free speech right?

In fact, we have plenty of things that fall under "free speech" that people don't do be it fear or because they understand how disrespectful it is.

And everyone here claiming how "barbaric" these Muslims in Afghanistan are for killing over the Qur'an burning, if they were truly barbaric don't you think MORE people would have died. You had a handful of Muslims in just one of the many Muslim countries commit these vile acts.

There are 1.5 BILLION Muslims, and maybe 0.0001% would murder someone. That's lower than the planetary average. Also, North America has 30% times the amount of murders as the middle east on average.

Who are the "barbarians" again?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by General.Lee
I would be willing to bet, if the tables were turned...if a Muslim burned a bible and the pastor killed some Muslims over it, you would take the Muslim's side. That's how the twisted mind of liberals works.

Are you nuts? And, what side would YOU be on? Would you really say it was OK to kill said Muslims?

Agreed. I love how conservatives use these "well liberals would probably do this, so its ok for us to do that" rationales. But staying true to form a presumably christian conservative is ok with that little murder detail. As long as its one of those infide.... I mean sinners.
Maybe we should put all the books of different faiths on trial. I think that would be somewhat entertaining watching a forensics team explain talking snakes, and the lack of Healed by the Hand of God former amputees. Heals cancer, blindness, brain tumors, irritable bowel symdrome, and more. But amputees.... well, you know they all had it coming. Wink wink. I rest my case your honor.
Yeah the twisted minds of the libs. Indies too! (my write in was for the good Dr)