Balance the budget!

So everyone's talking about cutting the budget, paying teachers, firemen, police, and government workers less...cutting programs that offer disabled people a chance, so they don't end up on the streets as homeless...and so on.

It's pretty clear, that some of that can be cut, at least to some extent...

However, honest people would also look at the revenue side, and that side is stunningly mismanaged...and has been for years.

Let's take Boeing for example:

They got $5bil in illegal subsidies, a $35bil US military contract, as well as a $124mil IRS refund (while making almost $2bil in profits)!! In fact, they haven't paid a single dime in taxes during the past 3 years, even though their total net profit amounted to $10bil during that time.

Here's another good analysis of why corporate tax rates screw the US citizens (at least most of them):



Now some will say that if those companies don't get tax breaks, they'll go elsewhere an no jobs will be created. And then you hear amazing figures about job creation...that sound great...until you put them up against the amount of money those companies get in IRS refunds. Here's Boeing for example. Someone tell me how this works out. They get $124mil in tax refunds, pay zero actual tax, and then create less than 4,000 new jobs (at best). That's around $31k per created job. So essentially, the tax payer is paying for Boeing's salary expenses, and Boeing gets to keep all of the profits.

It gets even funnier when you look at oil and gas companies. Some US states have natural gas, but they offer gas companies subsidies and tax refunds...or completely eliminate taxes for them. Their argument you ask? Gas companies would go elsewhere if they didn't do that. But the gas is in THEIR BLOODY STATE!!! It's the most ridiculous statement ever...

Basically, US politics work like this right now...for both parties:

1) Become a politician.
2) Talk to lobbyists and sell your votes to them for $$$.
3) Get voted into office because you could afford a more expensive campaign.
4) Do everything you can to give the companies tax payer money.
5) Talk about being "fiscally" responsible and "balancing the budget".
6) Cut worker's rights and make it easier for companies to screw over people by allowing them to pollute the environment, increase working hours, cut benefits, and so on.
7) Lose your office because the people aren't happy with you screwing them over.
8) Start working for the very companies who paid you.

They don't work for the citizens anymore, they work for themselves, and large corporations. When you hear politicians talk about "we need to cut $30mil in teacher salaries", don't forget that at the same time, they're handing companies like GE $1.1bil in IRS refunds. Companies, that also get to ship a ton of jobs abroad because it's cheaper for them...and because they pay the very politicians who could put an end to that.

You have to ask yourself, what do you want? Hand large companies that give nothing back free $$$, while your kids get dumber because education suffers, your house might burn down because the firefighters couldn't afford that 3rd fire engine, or you being robbed on the streets because there aren't enough policemen....or do you want large US corporations to pay their fair share in taxes like the rest?

Sounds like an easy decision. If you're curious who's bought by what lobbyists (clue: they are ALL bought), check out this link.

The correct answer is for the govt itself to CUT SPENDING. The answer is not to increase or add new taxes in any way, shape, or form on any person, business, or activity.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
The correct answer is for the govt itself to CUT SPENDING. The answer is not to increase or add new taxes in any way, shape, or form on any person, business, or activity.

Then explain to me why the average Joe has to pay taxes and the large corporations pay ZERO, hell, they even get subsidies.

Oh, and of course how you intend on balancing the budget if you keep handing out subsidies and refunds to corporations that don't need it...every savings measure proposed so far is ridiculously small compared to all that.

!0 reasons why we should tax corporations. This has come from another blog article and is from the UK so may not fit with how things work in the US , but it makes some good points that are worth reading.

reason 1 is good enough for me

1) Corporate profits depend on tax-financed public goods: healthy and educated workforces; good infrastructure; publicly enforced respect for contracts and property rights, and so on. When corporations avoid or evade tax, legally or illegally, they free ride on the backs of the rest of us. Stop taxing them, and you savagely undermine political community.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Yeah, it's pretty much the same problem in the UK

More evidence of politicians using taxpayer money for personal gain:



No wonder there's a deficit

The largest, growth industry in America is the federal government.

Cut spending, cut government BS programs, cut bloated beaurocratic salaries.

or

Increase taxes, grow government bigger, expand their control over any and every aspect of our lives.

Really, people. The choice is quite simple. If you want more government, then by all means, support a tax increase. Feed and worship the monolith that the federal beaurocracy has become.
Or take the approach of starving the beast.

Anyone remember a time when "government servant" meant that they worked for us?

reply to post by beezzer


Again, what does any of that have to do with large corporations paying ZERO taxes? You've been so brainwashed with "no tax increases" that you can't even see when it makes sense. Why should you as a person have to pay taxes, while GE gets a $1.1bil IRS refund???

And the point is, even if you cut teacher/firemen/police salaries and similar stuff, the savings are so ridiculously small compared to the deficit, it's almost useless...especially if you also compare it with government subsidies for oil/gas/defence/farming/etc and of course the corporate tax refunds where companies end up paying zero taxes.

reply to post by MrXYZ

The government writes the tax codes. If you want corporations to pay their fair share, CHANGE THE FREAKING GOVERNMENT!
As for small change firemen, ad nauseum?
Keep the firemen, keep the cops, keep the teachers.
Get rid of the Dept. of Education. Get rid of wasteful federal programs that do NOTHING for said cops and firemen. Get rid of earmarks for roads, airports, statues. Get rid of NEA. Get rid of redundant programs that only exist to justify more money for themselves.

You make corporations out to be the bad guys, but they are play the game WRITTEN by the government.

We need people in D.C. with the stones to say NO to unions looking for favours. They need to say NO to GE's Imhelt, who works out of the freaking Oval Office! They need to say NO to dumping money into black holes of federal purgatory.

reply to post by beezzer


They play a game with rules written by the government, the government THEY PAY FOR through lobbyists!! And I'm not making the corporations out as evil, it's their job to maximize profits...but they obviously don't have any morals, and it should be the politicians' job to make sure they don't act in a way that's unfair or hurting citizens. By robbing citizens of billions of revenues, and forcing them to foot the bill for that, they ARE hurting the citizens...

reply to post by beezzer


Agreed! Before we launch an all out attack on Corporations (who are in business to make a profit) lets examine the circumstances created by congress.

The title of this thread is Balance the Budget. Well, then, first things first OP...

Create a Balanced Budget Amendment!!! There are currently 137 Co Sponsors of the balanced budget amendment. (HJR2).

The beauty of this legislative goal is its simplicity. Balancing the budget—not spending more than the government takes in—is one of the most basic responsibilities of a legislature. If they are not competent to make the numbers add up and zero out in their budget, they are not competent to hold office, period

CO-SPONSORS OF BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT

The following are the current 137 co-sponsors of the balanced budget amendment (HJR 2) sponsored by Rep. Bob Goodlatte from Virginia.

112th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 2

Proposing a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 5, 2011

Mr. GOODLATTE (for himself, Mr. HENSARLING, Mr. SMITH of Texas, Mr. COFFMAN of Colorado, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. AKIN, Mr. ALEXANDER, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BACHUS, Mr. BARTON of Texas, Mrs. BIGGERT, Mr. BILBRAY, Mr. BILIRAKIS, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. BONNER, Mr. BOREN, Mr. BOUSTANY, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. BROOKS, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. BUCHANAN, Mr. BURGESS, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. CAMPBELL, Mr. CARTER, Mr. CASSIDY, Mr. CHAFFETZ, Mr. COBLE, Mr. COLE, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. CRAWFORD, Mr. CULBERSON, Mr. DAVIS of Kentucky, Mr. DENT, Mr. DIAZ-BALART, Mr. DUNCAN of Tennessee, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. FLEMING, Mr. FLORES, Mr. FORBES, Mr. FORTENBERRY, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. GALLEGLY, Mr. GARDNER, Mr. GARRETT, Mr. GERLACH, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. GRIFFITH of Virginia, Mr. HALL, Mr. HARPER, Mr. HELLER, Mr. HERGER, Mr. HULTGREN, Mr. HURT, Mr. ISSA, Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. JONES, Mr. JORDAN, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. LANCE, Mr. LATTA, Mr. LOBIONDO, Mr. LUCAS, Mr. LUETKEMEYER, Mrs. LUMMIS, Mr. DANIEL E. LUNGREN of California, Mr. MACK, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. MARINO, Mr. MATHESON, Mr. MCCAUL, Mr. MCCLINTOCK, Mr. MCHENRY, Mr. MCKEON, Mr. MCKINLEY, Mrs. MCMORRIS RODGERS, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mrs. MILLER of Michigan, Mr. MURPHY of Pennsylvania, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. NUGENT, Mr. OLSON, Mr. PENCE, Mr. PETERSON, Mr. PLATTS, Mr. POE of Texas, Mr. POSEY, Mr. PRICE of Georgia, Mr. REED, Mr. REHBERG, Mr. REICHERT, Mr. RIBBLE, Mr. RIGELL, Mrs. ROBY, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, Mr. ROGERS of Kentucky, Mr. ROSKAM, Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN, Mr. ROSS of Florida, Mr. ROYCE, Mr. SCALISE, Mr. SCHILLING, Mr. AUSTIN SCOTT of Georgia, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. SHIMKUS, Mr. SHUSTER, Mr. SIMPSON, Mr. SMITH of Nebraska, Mr. SULLIVAN, Mr. THOMPSON of Pennsylvania, Mr. TURNER, Mr. UPTON, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. WITTMAN, Mr. WOLF, Mr. YOUNG of Alaska, Mr. GARY G. MILLER of California, Mr. MEEHAN, Mrs. BLACKBURN, Mr. CALVERT, Mr. FARENTHOLD, Mr. GRAVES of Missouri, Mr. HUNTER, Mr. LEWIS of California, Mr. PEARCE, Mr. PITTS, Mr. POMPEO, Mr. SCHOCK, Ms. GRANGER, Mr. WALDEN, Mr. CUELLAR, Mr. BARTLETT, and Mr. CHABOT) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

www.balanceourbudget.com...

Do you see your Rep. on this list?? I don't see mine!!!

After passing this, they can move on to reforming our nation's tax code.

FAIR Tax

The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 13) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

* Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
* Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
* Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
* Allows American products to compete fairly
* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
* Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
* Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
* Abolishes the IRS

www.fairtax.org... campaign=Taxes&gclid=CIzvqtTE-acCFU9pKgodaS-2rw

Abolish the IRS? How much would that act alone add back to the budget.

reply to post by MrXYZ

All the government has to do is throw away the tax codes, install a flat tax and everything will be peachy.
BUT
Government will still "steal" billions more from the innocent people for their own selfish needs. It will grow, become more intrusive (just in order to justify its existence) and we will still be in the mess we are in now.

Government pays people from money they took through taxes.

Corporations pay people from services and/or products that people purchase.

The only thing government "creates" is more government! Which means it needs MORE tax money, so it can make MORE government, so it can take more tax money, so it can make MORE government, so it can take MORE tax money, so it can make MORE -. . . . are you seeing a trend here?

reply to post by jibeho

I find it funny that I get called brainwashed because I want government to spend less and tax less.

And the people that call me that are droning, "Raise taxes, raise taxes, raise taxes" like a George Romero flick when hoardes of undead IRS agents go around and eat 401K's!

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by beezzer

 

They play a game with rules written by the government, the government THEY PAY FOR through lobbyists!! And I'm not making the corporations out as evil, it's their job to maximize profits...but they obviously don't have any morals, and it should be the politicians' job to make sure they don't act in a way that's unfair or hurting citizens. By robbing citizens of billions of revenues, and forcing them to foot the bill for that, they ARE hurting the citizens...

Please remember that corporations are owned by and crewed by people. A corporation is only amoral (or immoral) if its people are immoral. Otherwise, the corporation’s actions will be constrained by moral considerations beyond the profit motive.

The those asserting that corporations are inherently amoral are saying all the leaders of corporations are amoral. In certain instances that is probably very true. Enron??

Think of all of the nations investments and retirement funds that are linked to the profitability of corporations. Let alone the jobs created by these Corporations. There is a lot riding on profits. Which means that there is increased pressure on the corporate leaders to be tempted into the dark world. Its tricky and involves putting a lot faith in the moral rectitude of these leaders.

Just want to start off with excellent thread!! Good job with your opinions and data to back them up.

Now there are many ways to fix money problems and I think all of the American citizens can agree it is not by paying teachers, cops, firefighters, and so on less money!!! We need to take away the 1 and done crap with the senate and high ups, meaning that they are working for 1 term and they can retire getting the same pay for the rest of their lives??? What makes them so special?? This government makes themselves and others who are connected with them seem like there is nothing that can touch them and they can do whatever they want!! I really wish people would get as as me about all this crap and we could do something about it. I wish there were more people who wanted to STAND UP for what is right, and fight this broken, corrupt, BS system and put an end to it all.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by jibeho

 

I find it funny that I get called brainwashed because I want government to spend less and tax less.

And the people that call me that are droning, "Raise taxes, raise taxes, raise taxes" like a George Romero flick when hoardes of undead IRS agents go around and eat 401K's!

FAIR tax = no IRS zombies to worry about

I just want to get to a happy place in this country. Perhaps Doc Brown can lend me his time machine so I can take a trip back to the 50's, the roaring 20's or perhaps even the Gilded Age.

reply to post by jibeho

I just want to get to a happy place in this country. Perhaps Doc Brown can lend me his time machine so I can take a trip back to the 50's, the roaring 20's or perhaps even the Gilded Age.

You might wanna look up the tax rates back then...especially the effective corporate tax rate.

National sales tax. Tax everything bought and sold (except food). 15% on all goods. Every person, every company, every corporation. No exemptions, no write-offs. Problem solved. Also, pull our military out of the 20 or so countries we're not at war with. That alone will save hundreds of billions of dollars.

/TOA

reply to post by MrXYZ


Don't knock the Gilded Age. Our economy has never grown faster than during those years. Of course that time frame also gave us the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Mellons and the Morgans and big Philanthropy. Probably not conducive to your thread but it was a a good time to be an American and we would not be where we are today if it weren't for these pioneers and their long lived endowments.

reply to post by MrXYZ


its pretty simple the average joe doesn't employ people without banks and corporations ask yourselves where would you be right now.

noone understands just exacly what it takes to start a business keep it running and make a profit corporations is a broad term encompassing every single thing that you and i use every single day.

without them there are no homes no materials to build them no materials to keep them running and everything else we use every day.

a business exists to make money it is really so simple and when your taxed,regualed paying salaries,paying medical benefits,pension benefits, and everything else that people just seem to forget.


the answer is simple less regulation and less taxation is the difference between bankruptcy and profit hiring someone and laying them off.

the answer is cut spending instead of creating the circumstances that create more people on welfare and paying people not to work and not to farm and so on.

the answers are so simple without business and industry where do you think homes,cars,clothes,food,computers,cell phones and the list goes on.

without business and industry and banks there are very few people left in this country who can still build there own homes and build a car and so forth.


without business and industry you people would be living in a cave with no clothes and no internet so we can all whine about the current state of the union.


its pretty clear to me.


when it comes to corporate tax breaks its more of a bribe to keep them in this country sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but there are other reasons businesses leave this country.

imagine if there was no outsourcing if this usa actually had human resources,less regulation and less taxation it would mean more revenue for you and the feds

its so simple but no banks are evil and corporations are evil so lets just make everything free and ban them but wait who are you people going to get to make the products you use every single say you people going to make your own gas? where are you people going to get the materials to make them.


stop the spending
stop devaluing the dollar
stop printing money out of thin air


its so simple to me.