Spycraft : Being Homosexual, the Subversive Government Element, and Espionage...

reply to post by crimvelvet


I think this may help explain the evolutionary aspect of homosexuality...

Important new evidence on a plausible mechanism for the evolution of "gay genes" has emerged from the work of Camperio-Ciani.[23] They found in two large, independent studies that the female relatives of homosexual men tended to have significantly more offspring than those of the heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men on their mother's side tended to have more offspring than those on the father's side. This indicates that females carrying a putative "gay genes" complex are more fecund than women lacking this complex of genes, and thereby can compensate for any decreased fertility of the males carrying the genes. This is a well known phenomenon in evolution known as "sexual antagonism,"[and has been widely documented for many traits that are advantageous in one sex but not in the other. This provides solid experimental evidence of how "gay genes" could not only survive but thrive over the course of evolution.

Evidence for maternally inherited factors favoring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Annee

Just a point. There is nothing wrong with a homosexual reproductive system. They have been producing offspring for centuries - - with the opposite gender. But - how would you feel if you had to have sex with same gender to fit into society?

Heteros choosing not to reproduce - - is the same as Homosexuals - - no longer living a lie. Both can reproduce if they choose.

For females I would agree.

For males WELLLLL Maybe.

If there is no "sexual attraction" ejectulation becomes a bit of a problem and therefore the number of offspring is GREATLY diminished.

(I am talking over long periods of time BTW so artificial was not an option.)

If there is an actual genetic component, and not just in vitro influence from the mother, it would most likely be passed through the female line and dead end in the male.

reply to post by Epiphron

I think this may help explain the evolutionary aspect of homosexuality...

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity bump.

So I was correct in assuming it passed down the female line AND that there was an evolutionary "advantage"

(I read and reply in the order posted )

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


What two grown adults do behind closed doors is nobody's business.
I believe put the best "Qualified" person for the job in charge.

OP, despite the fact that you are wholly lacking in modern day Harvard and Duke level studies on homosexuality, I get that you a trying to send the message that there are elite units based on sexuality brought together to achieve spy crafted missions. Also, there are, one or two women, interchangeable, like Tokyo Rose, that also serve as the same person in spy craft. Same was said of Matahari, but there was only one of her as far as I know.

I meant to give this post more time, but perhaps I can later. I wanted to validate you on this level, but must tell you that without the leader that is trusted, such as the founder of our illustrious FBI (loved his ballgown collection, it has only been surpassed by Momo Qaddafi) you will most likely not have a culture or elite spying unit to function in the sexual capacity to which you are referring. I am not talking about providing girls, that's another thing. I am talking about linguistic training, planning survival inside without communication, etc. that has a bond in secrecy because that sexuality is forbidden. The sexual bond must have something forbidden in it and tie directly to the leader they are serving, i.e. Hitler's elite gay guard (whom he ultimately destroyed for the same reason). Hitler only had one testicle and although with today's medical science that means precisely bubkus, it was a driving force in his leadership and marrying Eva on his suicidal death bed. Analyzing and profiling sexuality is essential in intelligence work.

So sorry, I do not mean to give short shrift, I will provide references if needed and will check back on this thread. Love this subject.

reply to post by SLAYER69

What two grown adults do behind closed doors is nobody's business.

I believe put the best "Qualified" person for the job in charge.

Unfortunately the nosy busy bodies with the lethal tongues do not agree and therein lies the problem.

If it is not "socially acceptable" it can be used as a handle by the enemy.

It sort of reminds me of this:

...there were two world leaders.

The first one experimented with drugs while he was in college, he had a mistress, he loved a good cigar and fine brandy, and he was famous for getting drunk at parties, even while he was in office.

The second one was a vegetarian and a nonsmoker; he only drank beer in moderation, and he was faithful to his girlfriend.

The United States Congress bestowed the first one with the greatest honor it had at its disposal, while we all revile the second one to this day. The first one was Winston Churchill, and the second one was Adolf Hitler. godswordexplored.com...

Too bad the busybodies never take that lesson to heart!

reply to post by Epiphron


Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree, you have yet to have provided any evidence.

Nothing more than mere speculation and studies.

The thing about studies is every Government, every corporation, and organization pays for them, and so do their competitors, throwing out there so many different paid for opinions, just to get statistics to back up their claims as to as to seek funding.

Wikipedia alone does not prove or disprove anything.

Yes, you will see I use Wikipedia, but I always supply many books as well.

And on top of that I will state it again, this thread is about epsionage, and spying.

With homosexuality being a subplot as leverage for someone betraying their country.

If Annee and you cannot get that I will just cease to reply to you at all.

It is a waste of my time discussing one aspect without the rest of it.

And I do believe both of you are deliberately doing this just to drive the thread off topic.

Spycraft : Being Homosexual, the Subversive Government Element, and Espionage...

Remember the title encompasses all elements of the topic not just one element within it.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

So, according to your belief system, someone has to believe your views, or they're wrong?

Has nothing to do with my belief system or view. Still believing that gay is a choice IS archaic.

It sure seems so because of your stance.

Not believing choice is a part of why someone is or is not gay or lesbian is irrational.

According to your stance you think what I believe is archaic.

Thinking something does not make it the truth it makes it your opinion.

And your opinion is fallcious but thank you for sharing it and getting back on topic.

Spycraft : Being Homosexual, the Subversive Government Element, and Espionage....

The one element is one part of this discussion so thank you for not derailing my thread.

Originally posted by Annee
Spycraft - - as in the game?

Is homosexuality really a part of that game? If it is - - they should have accurate scientific data.

I find it pathetic using this minority group - - with current fights for their rights going on - - as entertainment in an espionage game.

What did you expect using Homosexual in your thread title?

No, do not be silly, spycraft as in actual espionage.

You know the C.I.A. verses the K.G.B.?

Hence the title.

It is the entire reason as well as premise of this thread.

By putting homosexual in the thread I expected people to actually read and debate the entire thread.

Not focus on one element and decry foul about one small element.

It is becoming more and more obivious you know nothing about clandestine activities.

And became a part of this discussion just to rally around homosexuality.

Even giving you the book pictures and titles with the time to go research you still ignored it.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Annee

 

Foreign enemies use what ever "handles" they can find to subvert key people. Homosexuality is a biggie, adultry, drug use and gambling are other traditional "handles"

This is one of the reasons secret clearance checks of people in sensitive positions are so through. You want to uncover the weakness BEFORE the enemy does.

" the game" is a term used within the security field and does not refer to people playing games like "go fish" but games of "Chess" with real live pawns - like us and our nations.

You have been one of the few people keeping up with the discussion entirely.

Yes, homosexuality, drug use, and gambling are all leverage points for blackmail and espionage.

Again, yes, "the game", as you put it is serious as a heart attack.

In the clandestine services it is turn their spies or be turned.

In the clandestine services it is find their secrets or have your revealed on C.N.N.

In the clandestine services it is kill or be killed.

reply to post by mindfreak21


Thanks for posting.

Thanks for stopping by.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

That's what I get for responding to a troll post.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ddfd0b83f8d4.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

What two grown adults do behind closed doors is nobody's business.
I believe put the best "Qualified" person for the job in charge.

Of course.

Unfortunately, society does not accept that, never has and I doubt it ever will.

It would be a far better world if everyone minded their own damn business altogether.

But that is unrealistic completely and impossible.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

You have been one of the few people keeping up with the discussion entirely.

i was hoping we would get a really good discussion but very few seem to understand the subject of the thread.

One of the big problems is that you are talking of 17% of the US labor force working for the federal government. That does not include state and local.

How many of those government people are "compromised" because of things they do not want known?? We think of this subject in terms "SPYS" but what of the rest of the bureaucracy???

For example:

Against all odds, and multiple roadblocks, she moves ahead in her quest for truth and exposure of Obama’s ineligibility. Orly received a page of hard to read information instead of a legible numident from her FOIA request regarding Thomas Louis Wood whose social security number is one less than Obama’s.

Thomas died at age 19 and the information was available to the public, yet it has taken over a year for the Social Security Administration (SSA) to release the information. Why did they stonewall her request? Orly had to file a lawsuit to have the information released. Finally, the original application arrived along with a letter from the SSA.... wtpotus.wordpress.com...

WHY was the FOIA request stalled???

Fear of job loss???

Loyalty to the Obama Admin. ???

OR a "handle"

reply to post by crimvelvet


Great statement and questions.

Unfortunately, we will likely never know, because of hidden information keeps us guessing.

I concur too few people are discussing the actual topic just like Government not admitting things.

Unless someone gets caught in the act by an adversary.

But it has been a definite great discussion with the few who remained on topic like yourself.

F.O.I.A. itself is a stonewalling process to guage access to information.

U.S. Department of Justice OIP FOIA Library Update

Which is exactly why I posted the above link earlier today.

To stop Government stonewalling.

And or assist in educating people how to get information they want access to.

Thank you again for your involvement in actual discussion about this diverse topic.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree, you have yet to have provided any evidence.

Nothing more than mere speculation and studies.

Actually, I did provide evidence. Whether you choose to accept it or ignore it is up to you.

It’s a fact that attraction is biological/chemical/genetic in nature. We can agree to disagree, but disagreeing with me doesn’t mean that your viewpoint is any less false. There’s plenty of evidence supporting my stance. On the other hand, there is no evidence that even suggests sexual orientation is a conscious choice.

You’re the one disagreeing with what our world has long accepted to be true, so the burden of proof really is on you.

The thing about studies is every Government, every corporation, and organization pays for them, and so do their competitors, throwing out there so many different paid for opinions, just to get statistics to back up their claims as to as to seek funding.

Just because a government funds a study doesn’t make it any less true. To get the study published it has to go through a rigorous peer-review process, so it’s not like you can just buy evidence. Where would our world be if everyone disregarded all scientific studies just because they were paid for by someone other than the scientists? You can’t just make up numbers. If you think the studies are wrong, then show me how they are wrong. I honestly doubt you would make such a wild claim if the facts were on your side.

Wikipedia alone does not prove or disprove anything.

Of course it doesn’t. Nobody here was using wikipedia as a source. What I was doing was directing you a comprehensive article that would help you catch up to the evidence that science has provided on the subject so you wouldn’t have to rely on such simplistic and elementary beliefs. The wikipedia article is well sourced, so the fact that you want to dismiss it based solely on the fact that it is from wikipedia only shows how reluctant you are to give up an outdated belief.

And on top of that I will state it again, this thread is about epsionage, and spying.

With homosexuality being a subplot as leverage for someone betraying their country.

The reason I’ve concentrated so narrowly on the homosexual aspect of the thread is because your misconception of what actually determines who one is attracted to is the only reason why homosexuality can be used as blackmail by espionage agencies in the first place.

The belief that it is a choice creates a division. When people see it as a choice, then that means that people who don’t make the same choice that they did are different and wrong. On the other hand, when people accept that there are prenatal factors that determine sexual orientation, then we no longer consider those people that differ from us as wrong because they didn’t even have a choice to be wrong or right.

Since society still considers homosexuality as a wrong choice, subversive groups are able to capitalize on this and blackmail them.

Until we are able to see homosexuals as no different than someone who is born short or tall or black or white, we will continue to see people exploited for their sexual orientation.

And I do believe both of you are deliberately doing this just to drive the thread off topic.

Again, I think that misinformed belief systems are what makes blackmail against homosexuals a worthwhile pursuit, which is directly relevant to the thread. If people didn't see homosexuality as wrong, then it would be valueless for subversive groups to use their sexual orientation against them since it would be ineffective. The only way to clear that up then, is to show people exactly why and how they are different. Telling people to mind their own business simply doesn't work. Convincing them through science, however, can work.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

F.O.I.A. itself is a stonewalling process to guage access to information....

YES!!!

Just TRY to get information out of a government agency.

I asked for some information I needed so I could abide by the law when I opened my business 20 years ago. I am STILL waiting.....

We are expected to abide by all the laws and regs. Ignorance is not an excuse for us. However trying to pry the information out of government agencies or lawyers or even the internet is next to impossible!

reply to post by Epiphron

To get the study published it has to go through a rigorous peer-review process, so it’s not like you can just buy evidence.

Unfortunately Science and Peer review has recently taken a VERY big hit, much to my dismay.

A Harvard professor has been found guilty of misconduct over his research

A UN scientist is declaring that his three fellow UN climate panel colleagues "should be barred from the IPCC process....

Zorita's stunning candor continued, noting that scientists who disagreed with the UN IPCC climate view were "bullied and subtly blackmailed."

"In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the 'politically correct picture'... Source

The actual reality of the Scientific Publication world:

From the Philadelphia Inquirer, March 23, 1982.
Plain Prose: It’s Seldom Seen in Journals

Written by Dick Pothier

If you want to publish an article in some scientific or medical journal, here is some unusual advice from Scott Armstrong, a professor of marketing at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School: Choose an unimportant topic. Agree with existing beliefs. Use convoluted methods. Withhold some of your data. And write the whole thing in stilted, obtuse prose....

“Although these rules clearly run counter to the goal of contributing to scientific knowledge — the professed goal of academic journals — they do increase a paper’s chance of being published,” Armstrong said...

It is not by accident that intelligent and successful scientists produce such work.” Armstrong surveyed dozens of recent studies on how articles in such journals get published, and the result, he said, “was rather depressing, if our job is to get that research information out and have the readers benefit from it.”

In one study, Armstrong said, academics reading articles in scientific journals rated the authors’ competence higher when the writing was less intelligible than when it was clear.

In another study, Armstrong said, research papers were mailed to a sampling of dozens of researchers. Half the scientists received a paper that described an experiment confirming existing beliefs; the other half received a paper describing an identical experiment but with a different conclusion that challenged the consensus.

Although the methods used in the two sets of papers were identical, the scientists surveyed generally approved of the procedures used in the papers that confirmed existing beliefs and generally disapproved of the same methods when they were used to contradict what most scientists believed, Armstrong said.

Article: Research on Scientific Journals, www.forecastingprinciples.com...

SIGHHhhhh

Unfortunately Professor Armstrong has changed his website and no longer has his publications listed. He had some very good articles. I especially liked the test he made where he had an actor fool an entire audience of PhDs...

AHHha I found it! www.jscottarmstrong.com...

The papers were:

Bafflegab Pays marketing.wharton.upenn.edu...

Creative Obfuscation marketing.wharton.upenn.edu...

(Same study two different write ups)

Here are some of the more interesting papers:
A must read is:
The Seer-Sucker Theory: The Value of Experts in Forecasting: www.forecastingprinciples.com...

Back on topic:
Is Review by Peers as Fair as It Appears?, www.forecastingprinciples.com...

Research on Scientific Journals: Implications for Editors and Authors www.forecastingprinciples.com...

Barriers to Scientific Contributions: The Author's Formula marketing.wharton.upenn.edu...

How Expert Are the Experts? www.forecastingprinciples.com...


There are about 200 papers on statistics and forecasting and marketing. It is well worth taking a look see.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

F.O.I.A. itself is a stonewalling process to guage access to information....

YES!!!

Just TRY to get information out of a government agency.

I asked for some information I needed so I could abide by the law when I opened my business 20 years ago. I am STILL waiting.....

We are expected to abide by all the laws and regs. Ignorance is not an excuse for us. However trying to pry the information out of government agencies or lawyers or even the internet is next to impossible!

Well, you can get the information, you just have to use the rules against them.

Which is of course not easy in the least.

20 years is a long time to wait.

There are many ways of bypassing their stalling tactics.

Department of State FOIA Backlog Reduction Plan

U.S. Department of Labor : FY 2010 FOIA Initial Request Backlog Reduction Plan

U.S. Department of Commerce : FOIA Backlog Reduction Goals

I hope the three links above helps you bypassing your F.O.I.A. delays.

U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs : Office of Inspector General : Information on the FOIA Exemptions

And that last one is a list of exemptions they can use to stall you through legality.

The Complete Idiot's Guide to U.S. Government and Politics

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d690823ec3bf.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

Understanding how our government functions and the political forces that influence it is vital for all Americans.

As a comprehensive overview and history of the subject, this book is designed to help anyone interested in learning about our government and the origins of its complex inner workings, our political system, and key elements that have affected our growth as a nation- all while serving as the best supplementary reading a student can get.

*Author is an experienced Advanced Placement teacher

*Students looking to take AP exams are a ready audience-along with citizenship applicants and CNN junkies

*Large renewable market

*Suitable as supplemental reading for coursework

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Private Investigating, 2nd Edition

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9952fcfe8a45.jpg[/atsimg]

Amazon Review :

The gumshoe go-to—revised and updated.

Easy-to-use and fantastically inclusive, this is the book on private investigation, whether you want to establish yourself as a professional or just use some of the tools of a P.I. for your own business.

You’ll get the low-down on pre-employment research, tenant screening, adoption searches, safeguarding yourself from investigation, and much more.

—Completely revised with all-new chapters on skip tracing and due diligence searches

—Skills and techniques for average citizens, as well as professionals

—Includes the most useful

—and little-known

—databases

Those two books above can as well assist in speeding up the process.

You can find a lot of the books I reference in libraries for free.

My local library will ask another library to send it to them from across the county too.

Use the system before it uses you.

Dummies.com and The Complete Idiots Guide websites have major lists of other relevant topics.

Every little bit helps bypass this stonewalling nonsense.

Dummies.com : How to Contact Your U.S. Senator

You would be surprised what is open-source access for making Government work for you.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Thanks I will keep that info for future reference.

Actually I just went around the road blocks and used the library and librarian. Remember 20 years or so ago the internet was not as "available" but the library always is.